Topic: Dissection of a Picture -- Final Scene

[tpe]

Would be interesting seeing it more clearly - to me it seemed like a pack of cigarettes due to size and shape on its side with coins in front - the other items nearest are too dark...but that interpretation is not definite to me either.

I do seem to see other objects in the foreground, but can't make it/them out any better.  These and #6 are hard to guess with further precision from the picture.

[carbyville]

Looked through some more pictures to see if I could figure out what mysterious object #1 was.. still no luck but I came across something else in the trailer.



If you click that and make the picture bigger you will see on the stand next to the chair on the very bottom there seems to be a food container. Like a "doggy bag/box" you'd get at a restaurant. Not sure what to think of that, I just hope there isn't moldy food in there. But I guess it's more evidence that Ennis spent a lot of time in that chair.

[LuvJackNasty]

This is a great thread Carby! The thought of him sitting in the chair looking at the shirts just broke my heart.  :\'( I have no idea what #1 or #6 are

[chameau]

OMG!  I just found this new thread.  Thanks Carbyville for sharing...   

I need to make my mind and get back here.  After one year we still find more and more to discuss about this incredible movie masterpiece

[wayne1932]

Looking carefully at Ennis' chair.   I think that is a swiveling rocker.  It is positioned in the picture to look at the closet , but would rotate to see the TV. 

[carbyville]

Looking carefully at Ennis' chair.   I think that is a swiveling rocker.  It is positioned in the picture to look at the closet , but would rotate to see the TV. 

That is a very good point too! The more responses I get the more I think that Ennis spent many hours in that chair.

[tpe]

Looked through some more pictures to see if I could figure out what mysterious object #1 was.. still no luck but I came across something else in the trailer.



If you click that and make the picture bigger you will see on the stand next to the chair on the very bottom there seems to be a food container. Like a "doggy bag/box" you'd get at a restaurant. Not sure what to think of that, I just hope there isn't moldy food in there. But I guess it's more evidence that Ennis spent a lot of time in that chair.

I suspect that Ennis ate out a lot -- in cheap places, to minimize cost. to be sure.  He probably got used to someone preparing his meals during his marriage with Alma.  Also, the final scene with Cassie indicates that he would eat out alone.

Else, he did take-out frequently.  Or he brought back leftovers for his next meal.

[tpe]

Looking carefully at Ennis' chair.   I think that is a swiveling rocker.  It is positioned in the picture to look at the closet , but would rotate to see the TV. 

Yes, I was thinking about asking this yesterday, becasue I was not sure.  Could it also be a sort of recliner?

[chameau]

I went thru the whole thread, very good obervations and I have nothing to say but...

A sad little TV to go with the sad little bed in a sad little trailer. I am sad. 

Yup, I'm sad too  :\'(

[tpe]

A sad little TV to go with the sad little bed in a sad little trailer. I am sad. 

And while we are on this subject, the TV was propped up by crates, no?  Not even a table for an entertainment center...

[chameau]

Yes you're right and there is just one chair, Junior had to sit on the bed... when they drink wine, it's in two different models of glasses like the ones they use to sell full of mustard or nutella... A really sad setting for a poor lonesome Ennis. 

[tpe]

Pierre, I was wondering if someone can give trhe details about the glasses.  Thanks for giving it here.  The make-up of that scene and the set-up of the entire trailer speaks of Ennis, entirely.  Wonderfully done.

[chameau]

if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' 

[carbyville]

if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' 

That line is a killer   :\'(

[tpe]

if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' 

Perfect.  This is Ennis to the marrow.

[hpv]

if you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin' 

And if can't fix it you gotta stand it..  :\'(


I think we can do this also about Jack's room as well !   
What do say carby, do you have it numbered and all in your Livejournal ?   

[chameau]

(off topic) there is an old thread somewhere about Jack's room I guess, Thomas does it ring a bell? (end of off topic)

[tpe]

(off topic) there is an old thread somewhere about Jack's room I guess, Thomas does it ring a bell? (end of off topic)

OT: Yes.  I think there was talk about the objects.  I'll try to find it...

[carbyville]

And if can't fix it you gotta stand it..  :\'(


I think we can do this also about Jack's room as well !   
What do say carby, do you have it numbered and all in your Livejournal ?   

I will look through my pictures and see what I can come up with. If anyone finds the thread let me know I can post there. Another one I was thinking about doing was a comparison of Jack and Ennis's camps over the years and the evolution of them. We'll see where inspiration leads  End of OTness.

[jerasjr]

Has it struck anyone else that in this scene - the culmination of Ennis realization of what he has lost - that while everything seems to point to the emptiness of his life, there are still objects around him.  Yet when we see Jack and Ennis together at the high points of their passion, the scenes are almost bare - FNIT, SNIT,
Reunion and last BBM.  Hmmmm, perhaps another thread in the making...

[carbyville]

Has it struck anyone else that in this scene - the culmination of Ennis realization of what he has lost - that while everything seems to point to the emptiness of his life, there are still objects around him.  Yet when we see Jack and Ennis together at the high points of their passion, the scenes are almost bare - FNIT, SNIT,
Reunion and last BBM.  Hmmmm, perhaps another thread in the making...

Sounds like a contrast of the unimportance of material possesions vs the importance of connection, love and physicality between two humans.

[tpe]

(off topic) there is an old thread somewhere about Jack's room I guess, Thomas does it ring a bell? (end of off topic)

Sorry for OT:  One possibility is certainly http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=3102.msg60301#msg60301 where there is some discussion of the rommand contents.  I am sure there are other such threads...  If you want, you can append to this topic.

[LuvJackNasty]

Has it struck anyone else that in this scene - the culmination of Ennis realization of what he has lost - that while everything seems to point to the emptiness of his life, there are still objects around him.  Yet when we see Jack and Ennis together at the high points of their passion, the scenes are almost bare - FNIT, SNIT,
Reunion and last BBM.  Hmmmm, perhaps another thread in the making...

 That's because they were each other's everything- they didn't need anything but each other
Yes perhaps another thread in the making.

[JennaSTS]

I had always wondered about the positioning of the bed relative to the "living room" and kitchen.  I would assume that the bed was positioned where it is in order to minimize direct light coming from the windows.  The chair. of course, is positioned so as to maximize access to light from the 2 adjacent windows at right angles during the daytime.

Still, I find it interesting that with the way the pillow is positioned, Ennis would have no view of the closet or the shirts when he lies down.   This is in marked contrast to the chair, which certainly is well positioned for this exact purpose.

Why not the bed?  After all, it is the seat of dreams (assuming he did not sleep in the chair during most nights).  Perhaps this clashes with physical considerations.  I find the bed's position quite awkward...

I've never participated in ennisjack except in the fanfiction threads, but I came this way through the weekly update and was fascinated by this particular discussion.  Here's what I think about the bed positioning, or rather the *pillow* positioning.  Most of the time, when you're in bed, it is dark.  So Ennis wouldn't be able to see the shirts anyway.  But...his head would be closer to the shirts this way, and the head (and heart) is the seat of consciousness.  Most importantly, if the door were open and the shirts were exposed, he would literally be able to reach out and *touch* the shirts in the dark if he wanted to.  Positioning his pillow this way brings him closer to the shirts in a physical sense during the hours he is asleep...or trying to sleep.

Also, it seems to me that with both the bed and the chair positioned to see outside that window, and with the emphasis given to the window as the last scene in the movie, that we need to look at the positioning of both relative to the outdoors.  For me, this positioning emphasizes Ennis's separation from the rest of the (outside) world that we get anyway from the last scene.  He can sit in the chair or recline on the bed and lift his eyes to what he can't be part of, to what he is separated from.  This also leads to a feeling of being jailed, this separation, doesn't it?  He has been handed a life-sentence that cannot be commuted, and he will forever be yearning for the outside, looking from his chair or his bed, yearning for what he cannot have.  (whether through his own personality or the man he loves who is gone.) 

This is a great thread and thanks to carbyville for getting it going.  Really interesting!
Love,
Jenna

[tpe]

THanks also Jenna for the wonderful thoughts.

There are no bars on that window, but you doo seem to feel the separation of Ennis from the outside.  It is certainly not a forced separation. And it is more a separation born out of his deepest agony.

The head is the seat of dreams.

[Rønnaug]

I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I step in someone elses shoes mostly for myself here...

I think the reason the shirts were inside the closet,as opposed to hanging in the breeze like in the SS, is if they were hanging outside the closet we would have seen them behind JR, thus spoiling the "surprise" it is to see them when we do, and it would also detrackt from the conversation between Ennis and Jr.

As for the chair. Where else would he put it? It is there because that is where there is room and it makes it in front of the tv. I think ENnis was a very practical man, and things would go where they fit.

I like the analysis but this is how I see it

And I dooooo like the idea that he could have the door open to the closet and sit in his chair, with the tv on and glance over at the shirts now and then. Mayby feel that Jack is there

[carbyville]

I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I step in someone elses shoes mostly for myself here...

I think the reason the shirts were inside the closet,as opposed to hanging in the breeze like in the SS, is if they were hanging outside the closet we would have seen them behind JR, thus spoiling the "surprise" it is to see them when we do, and it would also detrackt from the conversation between Ennis and Jr.

As for the chair. Where else would he put it? It is there because that is where there is room and it makes it in front of the tv. I think ENnis was a very practical man, and things would go where they fit.

I like the analysis but this is how I see it

And I dooooo like the idea that he could have the door open to the closet and sit in his chair, with the tv on and glance over at the shirts now and then. Mayby feel that Jack is there

You're totally right there. No place else to put it, but really he didn't even need it at all. If he wanted to sit and watch TV there was the bed and there was the chair he sat in when Junior was over. It was a much smaller chair and could have been moved around instead of cluttering the small space even more with a recliner.

[justme]

Carby:

Great topic and really great analysis. Of course you’re absolutely right, this is just the way the set designers go through EVERTHING trying to decide what goes in and what goes out of the frame view to set the tone.

I think your analysis is pretty spot-on in terms of what you see and what its intention was in the frame. How interesting it would be to hear some inside information on this set and dozens of others in terms of how they were designed and developed.

You’ve said several times in your analysis how “sad” the whole view is and how sad it makes you feel. Yes, it does (I think that’s what the intention was). BUT the other side of this and to me the great BEAUTY of it and this view is this- poor sad Ennis doesn’t have a lot in his life in the way possessions (for an American anyway). But he does have ONE thing that many people don’t ever get in their lives, He KNOWS that there was someONE who once loved him and loved him deeply. There can be a lot of comfort and also sadness in that knowledge, and it is the signal event of his (of anyone’s’) life. The sadness of the view here makes the brilliance of “the shirts” penetrate it all like a beacon of love.

jackster

I agree particularly that the beauty of the positive aspects far outweight the "sad" elements. So many people see the glass half empty relative to the story; I think the glass is more than half full, and Ennis and Jack had more than most people have or hope to have!

regarding the scene dissection...it is fun and interesing to build a case for such nuances and hidden meanings that may have been intended, but having been on many sets and knowing how such scenes are set up, I bet dollars to donuts that the prop people had no such insights as are being discussed/put forth here. Props are used to fill space so the scene is interesting, add color to balance all aspects, add appropriate elements to make the scene look real, and overall provide a texture that is visually appealing. I am almost totally sure that the props numbered in the photo were just that. for example, where else would the chair have gone? there was no other direction for it to face, either. the scene works on many levels, and it is magificent. but, the depth of hidden meanings are, I think, not intended or real. In fact, a director strives, usually, to establish a scene so audiences absorb the meaning and purpose quickly. Lee would never have taken alot of time to do something no one would get. The props all work on a omnibus/macro level, and not purposed to be a mystery or puzzle. Sorry for being a cold water thrower, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Thanks!

[stephan]

Thank you, Carbyville, for starting this interesting thread. I only saw it because it's mentioned in this week's newsletter.

A question comes to mind about the bed. Am I correct in remembering that when his daughter comes to visit and talk about getting married, she sits down on the bed ? Ennis gets 2 glasses from the kitchen area, on the other side of your photo, and sits there. Is that right ?
I ask because I agree with interpreting your photo as a "shrine" area. Ennis doesn't sit in that chair when he has visitors, he sits there to look at the shirts....

[carbyville]

Thank you, Carbyville, for starting this interesting thread. I only saw it because it's mentioned in this week's newsletter.

A question comes to mind about the bed. Am I correct in remembering that when his daughter comes to visit and talk about getting married, she sits down on the bed ? Ennis gets 2 glasses from the kitchen area, on the other side of your photo, and sits there. Is that right ?
I ask because I agree with interpreting your photo as a "shrine" area. Ennis doesn't sit in that chair when he has visitors, he sits there to look at the shirts....

That's correct, Stephan. There is another chair on the other end of the bed which is where Ennis sits when Junior is over.