Topic: Jack's postcards *spoilers*

[carbyville]

If we put ourselves in Lureen's situation, what would we have done?  I'm afraid I would have probably done the very same thing I suggested that she did.  It must have been a humiliation knowing that Jack was cheating on her, and with other men, at that.  Then again, she probably didn't care so long as everything did not come out in the open.  A murder would have aired the dirty laundry, and she was quick to move to protect her own...

Lureen is very complex, strong woman. It probably could have gone several ways: Rage, embarrassment, denial and maybe even understanding. After all, if anything, her and Jack were friends to a certain extent. I would even go as far to say that she probably experienced all of the emotions at one point or another after Jack died. Her throwing away anything that had anything to do with Jack especially the postcards is certainly not far fetched. I think the thing that worries me most about life in the Twist home after Jack's death is how was Jack portrayed to Bobby after his father's death and what did Bobby grow to think of him? But that is a different discussion all together that we'll have to embark on one day.

[froggy]

But then I would have thrown out postcards from a fishing buddy even if I loved my husband...

I would have sent it back, so that I new he would not show up on my doorstep one day to ask where the hell his lover was, I would be too jealous and hurt!!!

and by sending it, it would be some sort of closure too for me.

[tpe]

Lureen is very complex, strong woman. It probably could have gone several ways: Rage, embarrassment, denial and maybe even understanding. After all, if anything, her and Jack were friends to a certain extent. I would even go as far to say that she probably experienced all of the emotions at one point or another after Jack died. Her throwing away anything that had anything to do with Jack especially the postcards is certainly not far fetched. I think the thing that worries me most about life in the Twist home after Jack's death is how was Jack portrayed to Bobby after his father's death and what did Bobby grow to think of him? But that is a different discussion all together that we'll have to embark on one day.

Interesting thought, although I would hesiatet to say that they were friends in the end.  Business partners would be more apt, IMO.  They had common material interests, and were bound by this so long as they were together.  The divorce would have changed all this.  I assume Jack had already told her about the divorce.

If Jack didn't have time to tell her, then Lureen may have less incentive to to vindictive -- although knowledge of Jack's affairs would have been sufficient. Knowledge of the divorce changes the topography of possibilities.

[Rønnaug]

well I would have thrown out the ones from the fishing buddy.... not sure what I would have done had I thought it had been a lover...

[froggy]

well I would have thrown out the ones from the fishing buddy.... not sure what I would have done had I thought it had been a lover...

goes back to my POV that she MUST have known!!

[carbyville]

Interesting thought, although I would hesiatet to say that they were friends in the end.  Business partners would be more apt, IMO.  They had common material interests, and were bound by this so long as they were together.  The divorce would have changed all this.  I assume Jack had already told her about the divorce.

If Jack didn't have time to tell her, then Lureen may have less incentive to to vindictive -- although knowledge of Jack's affairs would have been sufficient. Knowledge of the divorce changes the topography of possibilities.

Business partners is a better word. I couldn't think of it so "friends to a certain extent" had to suffice

[jackster]

Jack threw them away.  I don’t think he was compulsive about that kind of stuff. The only thing we know he saved, the shirts(s), had a very special meaning of time, place, person, and event. These were just postcards, not letters with XXs and OOs, and as such open to complete public scrutiny. It is actually unusual for a postcard to have a return address (how many times have you put one on a postcard?). The first one had to have an address so Jack would know where to go for the reunion since Jack’s card went to General Delivery.

The “DECEASED” stamp on the postcard has always bugged me, one because how did it get there?, it was obviously intended to look like an official stamp. And two, again most postcards don’t have return addresses and in fact I believe that is part of the reason for reduced post card postage rate, the PO will not return them to sender it's a “one shot thing” – to coin a phrase.

jackster

[LuvJackNasty]

I would assume that the post office would have stamped it deceased- it was months after his death that Ennis sent/received the postcard so I think she would have tied up any bills or anything of importance with his name on it and probably left instructions to have all mail returned. Reading through this I had a thought and it's probably very far fetched- could the postcards be in Wyoming? I guess I can't really see him traveling up there bringing each postcard with him on each visit but then again I guess he could have them safely hidden away in his childhood room- away from prying eyes.

[tpe]

Jack threw them away.  I don’t think he was compulsive about that kind of stuff. The only thing we know he saved, the shirts(s), had a very special meaning of time, place, person, and event. These were just postcards, not letters with XXs and OOs, and as such open to complete public scrutiny. It is actually unusual for a postcard to have a return address (how many times have you put one on a postcard?). The first one had to have an address so Jack would know where to go for the reunion since Jack’s card went to General Delivery.

 ***
jackster

I have no strong feeling either way regarding this.  Still, I do think there are other strong hints (i.e., other than the shirts) that Jack was more compulsive in this regard.  These are found in both movie and short story. 


Jack’s mother ignored this, said, “He used a come home every year, even after he was married and down in Texas, and help his daddy on the ranch for a week, fix the gates and mow and all. I kept his room like it was when he was a boy and I think he appreciated that. You are welcome to go up in his room if you want.”

(Proulx -- Brokeback Mountain, 1997)


The fact that Jack appreciated his mother keeping his room and its contents unchanged suggests that Jack deeply valued the Realm of Memory and its insignia in the form of mementos and objects associated with his past.  He was a man of sentiment (NOT a sentimental man) who had a deep store of remembrance that even Ennis could not match.  This is why I so love this character as envisioned by Proulx and Gyllenhaal:


What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis’s breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight, and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still usable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, “Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you’re sleepin on your feet like a horse,” and gave Jack a shake, a push, and went off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words “See you tomorrow,” and the horse’s shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.

(Proulx -- Brokeback Mountain, 1997)

[froggy]

The fact that Jack appreciated his mother keeping his room and its contents unchanged suggests that Jack deeply valued the Realm of Memory and its insignia in the form of mementos and objects associated with his past.  He was a man of sentiment (NOT a sentimental man) who had a deep store of remembrance that even Ennis could not match. 

His character is as full and complex as Ennis's.

[tpe]

His character is as full and complex as Ennis's.

It is such a tragedy that their individual complexities did not work to their advantage.  How sad that they loved each other but could not deal with their love.  That's why I think that the little things about their love -- like the postcards -- had significance to both of them.  A lot of meaning was hidden in them that only they understood.

[jackster]

The fact that Jack appreciated his mother keeping his room and its contents unchanged suggests that Jack deeply valued the Realm of Memory and its insignia in the form of mementos and objects associated with his past.  He was a man of sentiment (NOT a sentimental man) who had a deep store of remembrance that even Ennis could not match.  This is why I so love this character as envisioned by Proulx and Gyllenhaal:

Very well put, I think you're right he was a man of sentiment. And he did appreciate the way his mom kept his room (from a time before he knew Ennis no less). But from my own view the fact that the shirts were the one (and only?) thing Jack kept, makes them MUCH more powerful as a symbol. If they were just one of say dozens of different things he kept (postcards, camping gear, underwear , photos - <never saw them take a single picture!>, etc.) then to me the pure emotion the shirts embody and their representational value are significantly diminished. They become just a part of a bigger "Ennis collection" and not THE sign of Jack's love which their entertwining represent (and later Ennis's love when he "rescues" them for his own shrine).

jackster

[tpe]

Very well put, I think you're right he was a man of sentiment. And he did appreciate the way his mom kept his room (from a time before he knew Ennis no less). But from my own view the fact that the shirts were the one (and only?) thing Jack kept, makes them MUCH more powerful as a symbol. If they were just one of say dozens of different things he kept (postcards, camping gear, underwear , photos - <never saw them take a single picture!>, etc.) then to me the pure emotion the shirts embody and their representational value are significantly diminished. They become just a part of a bigger "Ennis collection" and not THE sign of Jack's love which their entertwining represent (and later Ennis's love when he "rescues" them for his own shrine).

jackster

I do agree.  Everything pales before the 2 shirts.  After all, it signified the Mountain itself, no?  It is a "hidden" trinity made up of Ennis, Jack, and the Mountain all in one.  Whether or not Jack kept the postcards or anything else is subordinate to this one thing.  He could have thrown everything else away and retained just the shirts --it wouldn't have changed anything significantly.

[goblondie]

Hi all of you and thnks for a great forum,Im new here and  have spent hours reading your dialogs about BBM,but since english isnt my main language it takes some time for me to read all of it, so I hope not my questions for you have been disgussed before, please tell me if they have.

I have some questions for all of you about Jacks first postcard.
He writes he is coming through on 24th, I believe that means
1.he has some kind of business and wil stop on his way to visit Ennis.
2.or does it mean that he is comming just to visit Ennis?
how do you understand it? I myself read it as number 1. that he is coming through for business.But I think this business thing is an excuse to visit Ennis, he just dont want to let Ennis know how bad he wants to see him .He is not coming through for business at all.

And my other question is:Do you belive that the opposite would ever happened,that Ennis would make contact again with Jack if Jack didnt write the card? Would Ennis ever have done the same?

[tpe]

Welcome to the forum, goblondie!

Personally, I had thought that Jack had no specific business on the way.  I had thought that he was simply sending feelers to Ennis and that he would go if Ennis responded favorably.

Then again, it is not inconceivable that Jack was visiting his parents, soon after the birth of his son.  But I somehow get the feeling that Jack probably did not visit his parents regularly until after the reunion, where his trips to visit Ennis also afforded an opportunity for him to visit his parents.

[jackster]

Howdy in Danmark-

I'd always assumed that since Jack still had family in Wyoming that this was the supposed reason for the trip, in the short story (SS) his mom says "He used a come home every year, even after he was married and down in Texas, and help his daddy on the ranch for a week, fix the gates and mow and all." Riverton is somewhat on the way from west Texas to Lightning Flat.

As to whether Ennis would write, his problem was he didn't have any idea where Jack was (Texas, Wyoming, Army, etc), again from the SS: "I didn't know where in the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you. I figured you was sore about that punch." Ennis didn't go far from where Jack left him in '63. Of course Ennis could have written to Jack's folks in Lighting Flat, but that would have taken the search to a different level of seriousness. Jack's card was casual, almost incidental in tone.

[maggie]

I don't think he was in town on business, remember after their big reunion they went "fishing" for a few days.

[aintfoolin]

The last scene before this one showed newborn Bobby being surrounded by Lureen's parents , bringing cases of formula for the baby. Jack was made to feel * inadequate  to provide for his new family by these people . Mr. Newsome stating the boy looked the spitting image of his Grampa, instead of Jack, the baby's father. Also flung the car keys at Jack as if he was nothing more than a servant and a sperm bank for an heir to the family fortune.

 I think it was at this point that Jack realized that he was never going to be an equally respected in this family. Therefore he sought Ennis out again after a *long over due * period of time. He never stopped longing for or wishing to see Ennis again.  Sent the postcard to the only person he felt truly appreciated by and accepted for who he really was. Ennis. And to Jack's suprise, Ennis was hoping to see him again too. Boy!, was he ever.!!

[tpe]

I don't think he was in town on business, remember after their big reunion they went "fishing" for a few days.

THis is true, unless he had finished his business before he met Ennis.

[tpe]

The last scene before this one showed newborn Bobby being surrounded by Lureen's parents , bringing cases of formula for the baby. Jack was made to feel * inadequate  to provide for his new family by these people . Mr. Newsome stating the boy looked the spitting image of his Grampa, instead of Jack, the baby's father. Also flung the car keys at Jack as if he was nothing more than a servant and a sperm bank for an heir to the family fortune.

 I think it was at this point that Jack realized that he was never going to be an equally respected in this family. Therefore he sought Ennis out again after a *long over due * period of time. He never stopped longing for or wishing to see Ennis again.  Sent the postcard to the only person he felt truly appreciated by and accepted for who he really was. Ennis. And to Jack's suprise, Ennis was hoping to see him again too. Boy!, was he ever.!!

Well put, aintfoolin.  I had never thought before that the cases of baby formula implied inability to provide for his family -- it hit me quite hard that this may have been the case.

But yes: the prior scene does seem to imply that he just was at the end of his rope -- and contacting Ennis was his way of "coming back".  THis is what makes me feel that he really had no business in WY.  He primarily just wanted to reestablish contact with Ennis -- and any imagined or made-up reason would do.

[jackster]

THis is true, unless he had finished his business before he met Ennis.

I'm guessing Ennis was the business  .

[tpe]

I'm guessing Ennis was the business  .

Indeed, I think you hit it spot on.

[welshwitch]

It seems to me that up until the birth of Bobby Jack has let himself be taken over by the Newsomes; not until her father's way of treating him after that does Jack realise that he will, if LD has his way, always be pushed out - here's another father, just like his, whom he can't please no matter what he does. Then he realises that he has an excuse to get away - going to see his parents - and the excuse is a nice elastic one time-wise. He can always lose a few days since Lureen is unlikely to check up on him - doesn't look as if the Twists have a phone even in 1983. And it's a long drive - going via wherever Ennis is isn't going to matter. so the postcard is the first move - if it works he can ( as he does) use the same excuse over again. Even the Newsomes can hardly complain about his going to see his parents, specially as time goes on and they grow older. If he tried to pass the visit off as connected with business, LD would probably intervene -and he has no cogent reason connected with the business that would explain ghis being so far away.

[aintfoolin]

It seems to me that up until the birth of Bobby Jack has let himself be taken over by the Newsomes; not until her father's way of treating him after that does Jack realise that he will, if LD has his way, always be pushed out - here's another father, just like his, whom he can't please no matter what he does. Then he realises that he has an excuse to get away - going to see his parents - and the excuse is a nice elastic one time-wise. He can always lose a few days since Lureen is unlikely to check up on him - doesn't look as if the Twists have a phone even in 1983. And it's a long drive - going via wherever Ennis is isn't going to matter. so the postcard is the first move - if it works he can ( as he does) use the same excuse over again. Even the Newsomes can hardly complain about his going to see his parents, specially as time goes on and they grow older. If he tried to pass the visit off as connected with business, LD would probably intervene -and he has no cogent reason connected with the business that would explain ghis being so far away.

Exactly WW. I agree with you on this. It was certainly convienient for Jack to have his parents living in LF , WY.

The post card stated that he was "coming through" suggessting that Jack could see Ennis wether going to see his parents or leaving them after a visit and driving back to Texas and no one would be the wiser .  Ennis was * on the way*  there in Wy. to and from LF.
In the motel room Jack states that he *redlined* it there to see Ennis after he recieved Ennis's reply postcard. This tells me that Jack came with a specific purpose and that was to hopefully reunite with Ennis. That,  is why I believe and agree that Ennis WAS the business.

 Had it been business for the company, LD would want to see/ require  evidence of a result of the trip. ( Sales figures, reports,   etc... in other words accountability, when he returned to the office in Texas would be required.

[welshwitch]

OT but I reckon he redlined it because after four years and having thought he might never see Ennis again, the reply to his postcard had suddenly given him hope. I bet he was on tenterhooks from the moment it arrived till he pulled up outside Ennis's apartment, and had accelerated more as each mile passed because he couldn't wait to arrive.

"Journeys end in lovers meeting" - well, this one did. Amazing what came out of one little postcard.

[lamusica]

 I think it's interesting that Jack told Lureen whenever he went to visit Ennis ( except maybe this first time).  After that, though, he obviously told her because she mentioned how it was funny that Jack was always going to see Ennis, but Ennis never came there to see Jack.  Were Jack going to his parents', or using them as an excuse for taking time off from Texas, I don't think he would have mentioned Ennis.  So, this kind of points to a sort of honesty on Jack's part.  Still, Lureen didn't catch on.

[tpe]

I think it's interesting that Jack told Lureen whenever he went to visit Ennis ( except maybe this first time).  After that, though, he obviously told her because she mentioned how it was funny that Jack was always going to see Ennis, but Ennis never came there to see Jack.  Were Jack going to his parents', or using them as an excuse for taking time off from Texas, I don't think he would have mentioned Ennis.  So, this kind of points to a sort of honesty on Jack's part.  Still, Lureen didn't catch on.

Yes, I thought that Jack was being honest.  He could not have used his parents as his primary excuse because there was probably some chance of Lureen getting in touch with them.  Lureen didnd't know how to contact Ennis, and so it was probably safer that he told the truth -- not that LUreen cared too much during the later years.

I just happened to see part of the original question by goblondie that I have not addressed:

And my other question is:Do you belive that the opposite would ever happened,that Ennis would make contact again with Jack if Jack didnt write the card? Would Ennis ever have done the same?

I don't think Ennis would have made contact with Jack.  I think in this one, Ennis remained passive, and would have borne life of regret rather than take the initiative.

[welshwitch]

I agree with tpe - if Jack hadn't sent the first card, Ennis would have gone on with his life with Alma and the girls, keeping the memoryof Brokeback tucked further and further away but never quite losing it. It's so typical of Ennis that though he didn;t have what he wanted , he would put up with it, whereas Jack wouldn't.

[goblondie]

I agree with tpe - if Jack hadn't sent the first card, Ennis would have gone on with his life with Alma and the girls, keeping the memoryof Brokeback tucked further and further away but never quite losing it. It's so typical of Ennis that though he didn;t have what he wanted , he would put up with it, whereas Jack wouldn't.

I think youre right welshwitch, Like Ennis say to Jack once"If you can´t fix it,You gotta stand it" and thats what I think excatly what Ennis would have done. He would have lived with his family and been thinking of Jack , but he would have stand the absense of Jack.Simply because like he said two men could no way live together and his fear for peoples reactions are stronger than his longing for Jack. :\'(

[tpe]

Thanks WW and goblondie. 

It is hard for me to fathom that a person could do this to himself: willfully live a life of regret.  But I am sure this happens in real life all the time.