Topic: Unspoken meanings in BBM

[CrimsonSky]

It is interesting to note that in those intense scenes where nothing really is said, it is the music (la musica) that informs us of the emotional context, no?  Especially in this scene with Alma after she catches sight of Jack and Ennis kissing -- there is a lull and uncertainty in the melodic line (as if only a drone or a continuo in strings is heard) in that part where Alma tries to recover from what she had just seen.

I'd never really noticed the music in that scene before, but I've just watched it again, and you're so right. I don't know what the technical term for it would be, but it sounds like a kind of "spinning" sound (I can't think of a way to describe it properly) similar to what I imagine Alma would be feeling, like her head was spinning and her world was spiralling out of control. Maybe that's why I never noticed the music, cause it's so much part of the scene...it's another example of the subtleties in the film, and how all the elements of the scenes blend together so well and make everything so real and intense.

Another unspoken moment I just adore is after Ennis says "That's the most I've spoke in a year", and there's a pause while Ennis's words sink in, and they're both lost in their thoughts, but thinking the same thing, realising what a huge deal it is for Ennis to have opened up like that, and what it means that it's Jack he's opened up to. Jack is just so pleased to see that Ennis likes and trusts him enough to confide in him, and Ennis is pleased to have found someone who he can trust and feel comfortable enough to talk to, it's such a sweet moment, both of them silently acknowledging the connection between them  But then Ennis shifts uncomfortably and seems kind of puzzled, or maybe even a bit scared by it too, as if he's wondering what it is about Jack that made him open up to him, and he's worried about what the answer might be. Ennnis then changes the subject back round to the rodeo thing, and the moment is lost, but that silent pause shows them both realising that their feelings for each other were growing deeper

[tpe]

I'd never really noticed the music in that scene before, but I've just watched it again, and you're so right. I don't know what the technical term for it would be, but it sounds like a kind of "spinning" sound (I can't think of a way to describe it properly) similar to what I imagine Alma would be feeling, like her head was spinning and her world was spiralling out of control. Maybe that's why I never noticed the music, cause it's so much part of the scene...it's another example of the subtleties in the film, and how all the elements of the scenes blend together so well and make everything so real and intense.

Another unspoken moment I just adore is after Ennis says "That's the most I've spoke in a year", and there's a pause while Ennis's words sink in, and they're both lost in their thoughts, but thinking the same thing, realising what a huge deal it is for Ennis to have opened up like that, and what it means that it's Jack he's opened up to. Jack is just so pleased to see that Ennis likes and trusts him enough to confide in him, and Ennis is pleased to have found someone who he can trust and feel comfortable enough to talk to, it's such a sweet moment, both of them silently acknowledging the connection between them  But then Ennis shifts uncomfortably and seems kind of puzzled, or maybe even a bit scared by it too, as if he's wondering what it is about Jack that made him open up to him, and he's worried about what the answer might be. Ennnis then changes the subject back round to the rodeo thing, and the moment is lost, but that silent pause shows them both realising that their feelings for each other were growing deeper

That was a wonderful silence.  It was the first true admission of intimacy, no?  I had the impression that both of them relished that moment. 

A related silence in the same scene is when Ennis tells Jack how his dad never thought much of rodeo cowboys -- all this time, Jack takes a swig of the whiskey, but we see his quizzical eyes.  Then, right before he does his rodeo impersonation, we also have a silence that is a bit tense.  The release was so heartwarming. 

[CrimsonSky]

That was a wonderful silence.  It was the first true admission of intimacy, no?  I had the impression that both of them relished that moment. 

A related silence in the same scene is when Ennis tells Jack how his dad never thought much of rodeo cowboys -- all this time, Jack takes a swig of the whiskey, but we see his quizzical eyes.  Then, right before he does his rodeo impersonation, we also have a silence that is a bit tense.  The release was so heartwarming. 

I have to say I never thought of that silence as being tense, I thought it was just Jack teasing Ennis, making him think he'd offended Jack, but either way, I love Jack fooling around and making Ennis laugh, it's such a rare sight to see them having fun

[aintfoolin]

I'm wondering about another of my fav scenes. It's the scene with the bear . When Jack tries to help Ennis by placing his scarf on his injured head , Ennis takes it away and does it himself and there is a pause on Jack;s part where he just stares at Ennis for a moment. Any explainations on what's up with this? Jack seemed kind of hurt that Ennis would'nt let him help.I think Ennis could have been a little more grateful. I know he was hurt but..wtf?

[welshwitch]

I wondered if maybe that was his first overt caring gesture and he'd hoped there would be a more favorable response from Ennis. The way Ennis pushed  his hand way showed how difficult it was going to be to approach him. And what could Jack say? "It's all right, I'm only trying to touch you" ? If he'd said "I was just trying to help" it would have sounded petulant and childish. Just for once I don;t think Jack knows what to say.

[tpe]

I have to say I never thought of that silence as being tense, I thought it was just Jack teasing Ennis, making him think he'd offended Jack, but either way, I love Jack fooling around and making Ennis laugh, it's such a rare sight to see them having fun

It's funny to realize that a connection between them had been made in this scene, and yet nothing explicit about this in this scene.

I think it was Jack's eyes narrowing down that gave me a sense of tension.  What Ennis said could have been taken as an insult by someone less atuned to the context.  Certainly, the way Ennis looked after Jack said "Is that so" (or something like this) revealed that Ennis was indeed teasing Jack. 

[jacks_key]

^^That is such a cute, sweet scene.  I love when Jack starts clowning to make Ennis laugh.   

[lamusica]

That was a wonderful silence.  It was the first true admission of intimacy, no?  I had the impression that both of them relished that moment. 

A related silence in the same scene is when Ennis tells Jack how his dad never thought much of rodeo cowboys -- all this time, Jack takes a swig of the whiskey, but we see his quizzical eyes.  Then, right before he does his rodeo impersonation, we also have a silence that is a bit tense.  The release was so heartwarming. 

I don't see Jack's look in that way at all.  I think it is momentary aggravation ( the silence).  I think Jack is weighing what Ennis means by that remark of his dad's and is deciding how to react.  He chooses silliness and proceeds with acting goofy.  His other choice, which I think he was considering, was getting major pissed at the insult.  He rejected that idea and went with the playful reaction.  There's something in Jack's eyes that makes me see the scene this way.  They get cold for a second -- distant -- while he weighs his options.  (IMHO)

[lamusica]

I wondered if maybe that was his first overt caring gesture and he'd hoped there would be a more favorable response from Ennis. The way Ennis pushed  his hand way showed how difficult it was going to be to approach him. And what could Jack say? "It's all right, I'm only trying to touch you" ? If he'd said "I was just trying to help" it would have sounded petulant and childish. Just for once I don;t think Jack knows what to say.

\

I agree with your interpretation,WW.  I see it, too, as the first attempt at intimacy on Jack's part.  Ennis is skittish- not used to affection - not used to being helped or touched, perhaps?  The scene also shows Ennis's temper.  He could have been nicer at Jack's attempt tp help him, but he was still PO'd at Jack's attack when he first arrived back at camp (Where the hell ya been, Ennis?)

[aintfoolin]

Yeah, but Jack was  only concerned for his saftey, and was was a little angry thinking Ennis had deserted him and any other horrible situation imaginable probably went through his mind. When he saw that Ennis was hurt, ( which Ennis made sure he did) He immediately tried to tend to em. Ennis was being an ass. He tasks me. Soon after this is when they traded jobs which was good.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

[lamusica]

Yeah, but Jack was  only concerned for his saftey, and was was a little angry thinking Ennis had deserted him and any other horrible situation imaginable probably went through his mind. When he saw that Ennis was hurt, ( which Ennis made sure he did) He immediately tried to tend to em. Ennis was being an ass. He tasks me. Soon after this is when they traded jobs which was good. 

Yes, I believe Jack just wanted to help Ennis, but in the long view, as we analyze the movie, I think this can be seen as an overture towards closing the gap between the two men.  When you minister to someone who is hurt, you get closer to them.  I think that Jack wanted to help Ennis, but he also wanted to show concern and empathy; however, Ennis wasn't ready for that.       

[tpe]

I had just written a short post in another thread relating to the almost wordless Dozy embrace.

Is there not a whole world of meaning attached to this scene?  We who knew the story beforehand appreciated how the cinematic version captured so beautifully Proulx's wonderful description of Jack's reminiscence.  For those of us who were not familiar with the short dtory beforehand, was the meaning of this scene transparent?

So few words; and in the midst of this scene: an ecstatic wordless quiet reigns.

[lamusica]

I know this was discussed in another thread, also, but it is Ennis's looking at Jack in the dozy embrace scene that does me in.  He is looking at him sideways, is fully aware of who it is he is holding, and sings to him.  That look says it all to me.  Also, when Ennis leaves Jack after holding him, Jack turns around and watches Ennis mount and ride off.  He can't break the reverie; he's not ready to let Ennis go.  This indicates to me the satisfaction he got from being held by Ennis, as if that didn't happen too often.  Jack wanted and welcomed the affection of that embrace besides the heat of actual intercourse.  Jack was IN LOVE with ENNIs at this point, for sure.

[tpe]

I know this was discussed in another thread, also, but it is Ennis's looking at Jack in the dozy embrace scene that does me in.  He is looking at him sideways, is fully aware of who it is he is holding, and sings to him.  That look says it all to me.  Also, when Ennis leaves Jack after holding him, Jack turns around and watches Ennis mount and ride off.  He can't break the reverie; he's not ready to let Ennis go.  This indicates to me the satisfaction he got from being held by Ennis, as if that didn't happen too often.  Jack wanted and welcomed the affection of that embrace besides the heat of actual intercourse.  Jack was IN LOVE with ENNIs at this point, for sure.

Yes, most of the time, we see Jack caressing or touching Ennis, but the Dozy Embrace is special.

Incidentally, there is that scene when Jack touches Ennis's face at the end scene of the Reunion fishing trip.  There is no dialogue between the two of them -- just the film music.  That quiet moment is so intense.  Nothing said, but the full meaning is so clear...

[jackster]

But the Dozy Embrace is special.

Very Special. Possibly full of more unspoken meanings than any other scene in the movie. At the risk of being repetitive, see this great slo-mo YouTube clip which combines the Embrace with the very music that Annie Proulx said inspired her description of this scene. You'll watch it a hundred times.



jackster

[tpe]

Very Special. Possibly full of more unspoken meanings than any other scene in the movie. At the risk of being repetitive, see this great slo-mo YouTube clip which combines the Embrace with the very music that Annie Proulx said inspired her description of this scene. You'll watch it a hundred times.



jackster

Yes, I did see that clip.  The music is quite different from the one in the film, but I feel that both understood the essence of that scene.   "Spiritual" is almost like a wordless mantra -- it reflects the trance-like stillness of the embrace.

 

[jacks_key]

Very Special. Possibly full of more unspoken meanings than any other scene in the movie. At the risk of being repetitive, see this great slo-mo YouTube clip which combines the Embrace with the very music that Annie Proulx said inspired her description of this scene. You'll watch it a hundred times.



jackster

That was just...beautiful.   :\'(

[lamusica]

Incidentally, there is that scene when Jack touches Ennis's face at the end scene of the Reunion fishing trip.  There is no dialogue between the two of them -- just the film music.  That quiet moment is so intense.  Nothing said, but the full meaning is so clear...

I just can't place this scene. Is this another reason to watch the DVD again???

[NoReins]

Incidentally, there is that scene when Jack touches Ennis's face at the end scene of the Reunion fishing trip.  There is no dialogue between the two of them -- just the film music.  That quiet moment is so intense.  Nothing said, but the full meaning is so clear...

Oh I love that little bit of affection from Jack after Ennis tells him "long as we can ride it...ain't no reins on this one". It's normally Ennis who says things with gestures and touches rather than words but here Jack gets his feelings across perfectly without ever saying a word. It's like the physical version of the SNIT "s'alright"....Jack "saying" to Ennis it's ok, I understand. I know you feel the same way as me but what you saw as a child stops you from being able to live it. I'll take those few meetings a year in the middle of nowhere because I can't live without you.

[tpe]

I just can't place this scene. Is this another reason to watch the DVD again???

NoReins . look at NoReins post above this one.  It situates this scene beautifully.

 

[tpe]

Oh I love that little bit of affection from Jack after Ennis tells him "long as we can ride it...ain't no reins on this one". It's normally Ennis who says things with gestures and touches rather than words but here Jack gets his feelings across perfectly without ever saying a word. It's like the physical version of the SNIT "s'alright"....Jack "saying" to Ennis it's ok, I understand. I know you feel the same way as me but what you saw as a child stops you from being able to live it. I'll take those few meetings a year in the middle of nowhere because I can't live without you.

NoReins, you said this so beautifully that I am  :\'(

Don't forget the way Ennis receives the caresses.  He bows his head slightly and seems to savour the moment.  Encouraged, Jack repaeats the gesture more forcefully, almost nudging Ennis with his hand...

Again, the scene goes beyond words.  This is what I mean when I posted at the American Film Institute thread that BBM's beauty lies in everything that is not said.