Topic: Unspoken meanings in BBM

[lamusica]

How much of the meaning of BBM is in non-verbal form?

[lamusica]

After all our discussion on this forum, I have begun to wonder just how much of the meanings of the stories and the characters is found in non-verbal form.  How much is said by one riased eyebrow, one lick of the lips, etc.  I think so much comes through body language.  Is this Ang's superb direction?  Is it the innate ability of our boys and girls to act well?  Or is it due to something else?  I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

[manhattangirl]

Do you mean like in the very first scene:  There were no ones spoken,  but you could tell right away the personality of the two.  Ennis's withdrawn nature, and Jack's animated persona.   Ennis looks away from Jack, shoving his hands in pockets, almost afraid Jack would actually speak to him.   Jack looking straight at him. Leaning against the truck, confident as if saying "yeah check me out."   I love the way Jack stared at Ennis's reflection in the mirror while he was shaving.  (Was he shaving for Aguirre, doubt it ).  

You knew the personality of each man, in that first scene, and without a word spoken.  I'm not a film expert, I won't presume to comment of Ang Lee's directions.   We are not hit first with eventual heartbreaking story of these two men.  But are introduce to them as two men who total polar opposite of each other, and are guided through their ensuing friendship, and then their love for each other.

[aintfoolin]

Great thread lamusica! I am immediatley drawn to a study in non-verbal communication . It is SNIT. My fav.  Ennis finds the courage to enter the tent. His  tentative movements suggests nervousness to the max. He's really not sure how he would be received and then...OMG Jack places a comforting, accepting hand on his arm.  His eyes focus on Jack's for a few seconds then looks away. They convey a wanting like I've never seen. Saying to Jack that he wanted and needed to be led by him .  The eyes said it all. They said that Ennis wanted Jack to take him and just let him drown in his love. TO feel and discover freely these new found feelings. He is awaiting the let down, the judgement, the rejection. But instead his eyes search Jack's and sees  nothing but acceptance and love.with even imo a little surprise thrown in. A deeply touching scene,excellently communicated without words.

[tpe]

Yes, thank lamusica for starting this thread.

I believ that the bulk of BBM is left pretty much unsaid.  Even the word LOVE is mentioned only twice -- at the end of the movie.  And yet, there was no doubt in our minds, I'm sure, that love was the force driving Ennis and Jack.

A lot of the FEAR is also very much implied.  The exception is of course the episode involving Earl and Rich.  And yet, throughout the movie, the tension of being found out and ostracized is ever present.

Lastly, SADNESS blankets the story all throughout, even in the scenes where we find them most happy.  Even in the scenes when they don't cry, we feel the transience of human happiness, even as they wordlessly acknowledge the power of lover over us all.

[jacks_key]

Do you mean like in the very first scene:  There were no ones spoken,  but you could tell right away the personality of the two.  Ennis's withdrawn nature, and Jack's animated persona.   Ennis looks away from Jack, shoving his hands in pockets, almost afraid Jack would actually speak to him.   Jack looking straight at him. Leaning against the truck, confident as if saying "yeah check me out."   I love the way Jack stared at Ennis's reflection in the mirror while he was shaving.  (Was he shaving for Aguirre, doubt it ).  

You knew the personality of each man, in that first scene, and without a word spoken.  I'm not a film expert, I won't presume to comment of Ang Lee's directions.   We are not hit first with eventual heartbreaking story of these two men.  But are introduce to them as two men who total polar opposite of each other, and are guided through their ensuing friendship, and then their love for each other.

So true; you know right off the bat what type of people they are. 

[lamusica]

Manhattan girl, I never really thought about the opening scene being so important, but you are absolutely right, I feel.  The way Ennis and Jack walk tells they are different.  Ennis slouches when he walks; Jack walks more erectly and more purposefully.  Even something as simple as a walk can tell worlds about them.  The first looks they take at each other lead us to believe right off the bat that Ennis is distant, cool, doesn't want to make friends with anyone, is shy; whereas Jack in confrontational, wants to talk, wants to meet Ennis, is not shy, cares about his appearance (evident throughout the whole movie).  Good observation, MG.

[lamusica]

The very first time I saw the film, I was struck by the look in Alma's eyes when she opened the screendoor and saw the guys kissing.  She didn't do any of the things we might have expected: hand flying to her open-with-shock mouth, or hand to her broken heart, or go fying down the steps to confront them.  Instead, she did absolutely nothing.  Everything was said in her eyes.  I could feel her world crashing in on her at that moment of realization that there were things about Ennis that she didn't know and maybe didn't want to know.  These are the non-verbals that spell out the meaning of the story to me.

[tpe]

The very first time I saw the film, I was struck by the look in Alma's eyes when she opened the screendoor and saw the guys kissing.  She didn't do any of the things we might have expected: hand flying to her open-with-shock mouth, or hand to her broken heart, or go fying down the steps to confront them.  Instead, she did absolutely nothing.  Everything was said in her eyes.  I could feel her world crashing in on her at that moment of realization that there were things about Ennis that she didn't know and maybe didn't want to know.  These are the non-verbals that spell out the meaning of the story to me.

It is interesting to note that in those intense scenes where nothing really is said, it is the music (la musica) that informs us of the emotional context, no?  Especially in this scene with Alma after she catches sight of Jack and Ennis kissing -- there is a lull and uncertainty in the melodic line (as if only a drone or a continuo in strings is heard) in that part where Alma tries to recover from what she had just seen.

There is one scene where there are words but no music, and theo words are completely at odds with what we see.  That scene is Jack's murder.  In the middle of that scene, we hear Ennis pause, precisely at the moment when Jack's face is being brutally crushed.  That scene and that silence is beyond music and words.

[manhattangirl]

I've wondered about that too, if that was me I would be kicking Jack's butt, as my initial reaction.   But why didn't she say anything?   I can understand her,  she loved Ennis, had his children, lived in crappy places, only had the bare essentials, not even a washing machine, she scrub her clothes on a washboard, brilliant move convincing him to  move over the laundrymat.  She was married to him, and loved him.    Gees after all that, you  see your husband suck face with a guy outside your door.  Its enough to make you go insane.   It must have been like a gut-punch,  your dazed and confused, your trying to catch your breath. It was something so incomprehensible for her to deal with, its like waking up and seeing a green sky.  

[tpe]

I've wondered about that too, if that was me I would be kicking Jack's butt, as my initial reaction.   But why didn't she say anything?   I can understand her,  she loved Ennis, had his children, lived in crappy places, only had the bare essentials, not even a washing machine, she scrub her clothes on a washboard, brilliant move convincing him to  move over the laundrymat.  She was married to him, and loved him.    Gees after all that, you  see your husband suck face with a guy outside your door.  Its enough to make you go insane.   It must have been like a gut-punch,  your dazed and confused, your trying to catch your breath. It was something so incomprehensible for her to deal with, its like waking up and seeing a green sky.  

I suspect that it was completely beyond her comprehension.  It was like seeing a Martian, I suppose.  Her brain had no way of processing what she saw.  Her defense mechanism seemed to have been to pretend that she had seen nothing -- and I think her silence must have taken a horrendous toll on her.  It made her all the more bitter.  It made the hate deep inside grow.

[lamusica]

It is interesting to note that in those intense scenes where nothing really is said, it is the music (la musica) that informs us of the emotional context, no?  Especially in this scene with Alma after she catches sight of Jack and Ennis kissing -- there is a lull and uncertainty in the melodic line (as if only a drone or a continuo in strings is heard) in that part where Alma tries to recover from what she had just seen.

There is one scene where there are words but no music, and theo words are completely at odds with what we see.  That scene is Jack's murder.  In the middle of that scene, we hear Ennis pause, precisely at the moment when Jack's face is being brutally crushed.  That scene and that silence is beyond music and words.

I have never noticed the music in either of these scenes.  I am so caught up in the tragedy of both of them, that the visuals have overridden the audio in my mind.  This gives me another excuse to watch BBM again ( as if I needed an excuse!) LOL

[chameau]

Interesting thread indeed.

There is one scene who impressed me from the first viewing and all the viewings afterwards... The phone call, I mean Ennis calling Lureen.  Lureen all of a sudden teary eyes relating Jack's death and this scne ending with this polite, but cold as snow voice.  She knew who was calling and she knew WHO was Ennis don't you think?  Anne was under rated for this scene IMO.

[tpe]

I have never noticed the music in either of these scenes.  I am so caught up in the tragedy of both of them, that the visuals have overridden the audio in my mind.  This gives me another excuse to watch BBM again ( as if I needed an excuse!) LOL

It is interesting that the two-note theme that begins the entire movie is an obvious leitmotif  for BBM and the love between Ennis and Jack.  When the scene moves back to Ennis and Jack after Alma sees them kiss, we hear this 2-note leitmotif.  Words have become unnecessary, and only the two notes suffice to fill us emotionally.

The same goes at the end of the scene where Ennis received the first postcard.   After he says "We were fishing buddies" to Alma, he walks away, and there is a momentary silence before we hear -- after  a long absence -- the same 2-note motif.  Again, the boundary between silence and music is skillfully managed such that no words were necessary.

[tpe]

Interesting thread indeed.

There is one scene who impressed me from the first viewing and all the viewings afterwards... The phone call, I mean Ennis calling Lureen.  Lureen all of a sudden teary eyes relating Jack's death and this scne ending with this polite, but cold as snow voice.  She knew who was calling and she knew WHO was Ennis don't you think?  Anne was under rated for this scene IMO.

Yes!  The acting and the unspoken meanings underneath this entire scene were so subtle that I would not be surprised that the masjority of the viewers didn't catch it.  I think this is both the strength and weakness of BBM: it demands much from the viewer in filling out and grasping the unspoken meanings that the average viewer -- interested only in a few hours of brainless entertainment -- is confused or at least caught of-guard.  When someone says he found BBM "boring", I know immediately that the movies this guy watches would not be of any interest to me....

[lamusica]

Interesting thread indeed.

There is one scene who impressed me from the first viewing and all the viewings afterwards... The phone call, I mean Ennis calling Lureen.  Lureen all of a sudden teary eyes relating Jack's death and this scne ending with this polite, but cold as snow voice.  She knew who was calling and she knew WHO was Ennis don't you think?  Anne was under rated for this scene IMO.

This is one of my favorites, also.  Lureen tried to keep the tears from falling while talking with Ennis.  Her eyes darted to her left in an effort to contain the tears.  This indicated to me that her feelings for Jack were much deeper than we may have suspected.  You don't cry for someone you don't care about.  Hearing Ennis and knowing he was a friend of Jack's, brought Jack back to her and she teared up.  She must have loved him to some degree and certainly missed him.  (And I do not think she fully realised what the two men meant to each other. -Just my opinion.)

[lamusica]

It is interesting that the two-note theme that begins the entire movie is an obvious leitmotif  for BBM and the love between Ennis and Jack.  When the scene moves back to Ennis and Jack after Alma sees them kiss, we hear this 2-note leitmotif. 

Do you realise that none of us brokies will ever hear those two notes in any context without thinking of BBM?  They are so ingrained in us.  To me, they are the saddest, most mournful two notes in the world.  I tear up when I hear them.  AHHHH, the power of music.

[tpe]

Do you realise that none of us brokies will ever hear those two notes in any context without thinking of BBM?  They are so ingrained in us.  To me, they are the saddest, most mournful two notes in the world.  I tear up when I hear them.  AHHHH, the power of music.

And it's wordless, no?  And yet to us, it says everything. 

[jackster]

ENNIS’S RAISED EYEBROW
Jack - “Unless you want to tie knots all day”
Ennis looks right at the camera (i.e. audience) and flexes his eyebrow. Only point in the film, I think, where anyone looks directly into the camera’s eye when no one is supposed to be at that point of view. He’s looking at YOU. What’s Ennis thinking? To me it’s “What’s the story with this guy? Mr. Know It All”. No words, just a small inflection of a beautiful eyebrow says what he’s thinking.
jackster

[tpe]

Coupled to the above is the scene when Jack gulps and tigtens his jaw as he peels spuds and sees Ennis undress from the corner of his eye...

[lamusica]

Jack's face is so emotive in so many scenes.  When he drives away from Ennis after coming all that way to see Ennis after his divorce and we see him crying in the truck on his way to Mexico, the way he wipes away the tears and flicks them to the side made me think their relatiionship was going to change soon.  It was as if Jack said, "The hell with this crap.  I don't mean anything to him.  It's over."  Of course, that didn't happen.  Still, I think it was the first time I saw some real dissatisfaction with their whole situation on Jack's part.  Kind of the first time Jack indicated he was getting tired of this meeting a few times per year out in nowhere land

[tpe]

Jack's face is so emotive in so many scenes.  When he drives away from Ennis after coming all that way to see Ennis after his divorce and we see him crying in the truck on his way to Mexico, the way he wipes away the tears and flicks them to the side made me think their relatiionship was going to change soon.  It was as if Jack said, "The hell with this crap.  I don't mean anything to him.  It's over."  Of course, that didn't happen.  Still, I think it was the first time I saw some real dissatisfaction with their whole situation on Jack's part.  Kind of the first time Jack indicated he was getting tired of this meeting a few times per year out in nowhere land

In this scene, Jack's heart grew hard.  There were tears and determination in his eyes.  No amount of words can do as well as it was realized in this heartbreaking scene.

[welshwitch]

The same holds true of the following scene, where he walks into the alleyway in Mexico, towards the man he's going to allow to pick him up. There's a look on his face as he walks away from the square that illustrates perfectly the expression "the iron entered his soul".

[tpe]

The same holds true of the following scene, where he walks into the alleyway in Mexico, towards the man he's going to allow to pick him up. There's a look on his face as he walks away from the square that illustrates perfectly the expression "the iron entered his soul".

I love that expression.  With Jack, it is as if he carried in his heart his love for Ennis with an iron yoke.

[chameau]

The grocery scene, when Ennis takes the girls to Alma because he has to go to work.

Ennis:  I can't afford to be there when them heifers calve.  Be my job if I lose any of 'em.

Alma:  What about my job?

Then, there is some look on Ennis face and Alma gives up.  From the very first viewing this scene amazed me.  This is one strong unspoken meaning of Ennis I would say.

[welshwitch]

I've always thought he looked almost murderous at that point - clearly he didn't need to say any more; just the expression on his face was enough to make Alma back down. For me it ties up with the "those things I don't know...." comment where he appears to be threatening to kill Jack or get him killed. Ennis has a strong streak of violence in his makeup - look at the July 4th and Thanksgiving sequences.

[lamusica]

Yes, I've always felt that look of Ennis's was all it took to get his way with Alma.  She recognised something in that look and responded just as he wanted her to.  She gave in.  Was she afraid of him becoming violent?  I don't think so.  But, it WAS a reminder to her to stay in her place -- the subservient wife.  His job was more important to the family (in his opinion and that of society at that time), so her job had to some second.  His look reminded her of her place in their marriage -- definitely less important than the husband -- him.

[tpe]

The grocery scene, when Ennis takes the girls to Alma because he has to go to work.

Ennis:  I can't afford to be there when them heifers calve.  Be my job if I lose any of 'em.

Alma:  What about my job?

Then, there is some look on Ennis face and Alma gives up.  From the very first viewing this scene amazed me.  This is one strong unspoken meaning of Ennis I would say.

Wonderful!!!

[tpe]

Yes, I've always felt that look of Ennis's was all it took to get his way with Alma.  She recognised something in that look and responded just as he wanted her to.  She gave in.  Was she afraid of him becoming violent?  I don't think so.  But, it WAS a reminder to her to stay in her place -- the subservient wife.  His job was more important to the family (in his opinion and that of society at that time), so her job had to some second.  His look reminded her of her place in their marriage -- definitely less important than the husband -- him.

I had thought that his look was not particularly angry.  But I did feel that he was challenging her to say that her job was more important than his own job.  It was a matter of pride, I suppose.  Alma probably realized the implications and backed down.  It must have been a touchy thing -- especially if Alma was the source of much of their income.

I had assumed that by moving to town, Ennnis had compromised with Alma, and this meant that he was further from the ranches where he worked.  He therefore expected that Alma would acknowledge the sacrifice by being cooperative whenever he was called out to work...

[jackster]

I've always thought he looked almost murderous at that point

ww:
I'd always thought this scene was just a kind of pleading look until you said this, so I went back and reviewed the scene (tough work) and by gosh you're right! There's actually TWO looks here, the first is his wide-eyed pleading look (oh, Ennis), then when Alma says "What about my job", his eyes narrow and he takes on the violent Ennis look (aka, biker scene, all them things I don't know scene, etc.). Man, Heath how'd you do that! Really, subtle but it all comes across with great beauty.

jackster