Author Topic: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene? (Read 84828 times)

BBM Fan · « **Reply #30 on:** Dec 24, 2006, 05:40 PM »

Quote from: Del Mar Twist on Dec 24, 2006, 03:35 PM

I blasted my TV, and put on my head phones, and Jack says everything. I listened to it with both Closed Caption on my TV, and Subtitles on my DVD, and here is what Jack says.

I'm Sorry.

It's All Right.

It's All Right.

Lie Back. Come On.

I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."

Del Mar Twist - I agree with you now about Jack saying everything in the SNIT, But - Now more new information, at least for me. This is the first i heard "lie back - come on", but i like it & have listened several more times - i can't quite make it out, but think you're right. I, too, use headphones, but sometimes it's easier for me to hear if i just close my eyes and concentrate on them rather than the picture.

In the reunion scene - when Ennis started pushing Jack against the wall, it sounds like he said something. Did you hear that? And when he was pulling Jack off him just before he went upstairs, did you here Ennis say, "later"? A couple people mentioned that, but i can't quite catch it. I thought my hearing was good in my "old age", but this is driving me crazy. I appreciate your responses.

Have a good holiday.

BBM Fan

jackster · « **Reply #31 on:** Dec 24, 2006, 11:54 PM »

Quote from: Del Mar Twist on Dec 24, 2006, 03:35 PM

here is what Jack says.
I'm Sorry.
It's All Right.
It's All Right.
Lie Back. Come On.
I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."

I believe you've hit it exactly right DelMarTwist. Both in WHAT was said and WHY it was said. Those darn subtitle folks have confused it greatly with their visual placement of the words making it look like Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think you're right, Jack says it, and is sorry for being a little too forward with what is actually their FIRST kiss. I'm not sure Ennis was really prepared for a man-to-man kiss, but he came around pretty quick.

What do you think Ennis thought was going to happen when he went to the tent after sitting by the fire and contemplating the situation? Do you think he thought maybe they would just talk about the FNIT or do you think he expected action? I've always felt this move by Ennis, getting up from the camp fire going to the tent, was the pivitol point in the film. If that hadn't happened, it would have been literally "A one shot thing", the rest of they story (as we know it) would not have evolved.

jackster

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #32 on:** Dec 25, 2006, 12:03 AM »

IMO Ennis was giving himself over to Jack. I think when he approached Jack up on the mountain and said "This is a one shot thing we got going on here" etc he had already done his thinking. "Both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned". He hesitated by the fire- I don't think it was because he didn't want to go into the tent, I think he was just nervous. I agree this is pivotal to the film- it does show how much Ennis loved/cared for Jack- we don't find out until much later about the horrible thing his father had shown him but knowing that it makes Ennis going to Jack even more powerful.

greenfrog · « **Reply #33 on:** Dec 25, 2006, 01:52 AM »

Quote from: Del Mar Twist on Dec 24, 2006, 03:35 PM

I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."

I've heard the "I'm Sorry" and "It's All Right" a number of times before, but last night, for the first time, I heard "Lie Back. Come On". Well, I nearly fell off the sofa. He says it so tenderly and lovingly and Ennis just melts into his arms and . . . . I think I need to go watch the 2nd tent scene again.

jackster · « **Reply #34 on:** Dec 25, 2006, 05:49 PM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Dec 25, 2006, 12:03 AM

We don't find out until much later about the horrible thing his father had shown him but knowing that it makes Ennis going to Jack even more powerful.

You Bet.

jackster

NoReins · « **Reply #35 on:** Dec 27, 2006, 12:29 PM »

Jeez, I think I'm going to have to go and watch the SNIT again with my headphones on to see if I can hear the "lie back" from Jack...never heard it before but I'm not above watching again (and again and again and again) to try to hear it. The things I'll do in the name of research...

BBM Fan · « **Reply #36 on:** Dec 27, 2006, 08:16 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Dec 27, 2006, 12:29 PM

Jeez, I think I'm going to have to go and watch the SNIT again with my headphones on to see if I can hear the "lie back" from Jack...never heard it before but I'm not above watching again (and again and again and again) to try to hear it. The things I'll do in the name of research...

Yes, we need more research. I still don't hear "lie back". Not sure why Jack would say that because Ennis isn't really lying back - Jack is. Could it be "lie down"? Anyway, I can barely make out the "come on". We all need to re-watch this scene with our headphones and re-group. Now if they had had the lights up and had enunciated, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Ang Lee is a genius. He's driving us all crazy. Agreed?

tpe · « **Reply #37 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 08:17 AM »

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 27, 2006, 08:16 PM

Yes, we need more research. I still don't hear "lie back". Not sure why Jack would say that because Ennis isn't really lying back - Jack is. Could it be "lie down"? Anyway, I can barely make out the "come on". We all need to re-watch this scene with our headphones and re-group. Now if they had had the lights up and had enunciated, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Ang Lee is a genius. He's driving us all crazy. Agreed?

Could he have said "lie back" the moment he flipped positions with Ennis so that he was on top? I speculate because I myself had not heard this said, but I was not listening to carefully. The music always washes over me.

BBM Fan · « **Reply #38 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 09:01 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Dec 28, 2006, 08:17 AM

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 27, 2006, 08:16 PM
Yes, we need more research. I still don't hear "lie back". Not sure why Jack would say that because Ennis isn't really lying back - Jack is. Could it be "lie down"? Anyway, I can barely make out the "come on". We all need to re-watch this scene with our headphones and re-group. Now if they had had the lights up and had enunciated, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Ang Lee is a genius. He's driving us all crazy. Agreed?

Could he have said "lie back" the moment he flipped positions with Ennis so that he was on top? I speculate because I myself had not heard this said, but I was not listening to carefully. The music always washes over me.

Thanks, tpe. That could be, but Del Mar Twist seems pretty confident that the sequence was - after "it's all right" then came, "lie back, come here/on" (I hear both). I watched the movie again last night after I wrote that post & lie back could fit, as Ennis was on his side. I still didn't hear it.

tpe · « **Reply #39 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 09:15 AM »

I guess I would like to hear it, even though I don't.

In any case, it could be that the music masks a lot of the sotto voce dialog between the two. One gets the sense of words exchanged, even though I don't hear a lot of it.

NoReins · « **Reply #40 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 11:38 AM »

I've just listened to it with headphones and I heard Jack say c'mere just before he kisses Ennis. Pretty sure it's then sorry...it's alright...it's alright and then another c'mere or maybe come on just before they lie back down. Don't hear lie back/down though....and I did watch half a dozen times, with the volume very loud

tpe · « **Reply #41 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 11:48 AM »

Interesting, NoReins. I also have never heard "lie back", although I must admit that the same goes with "c'mere". But I never listened that carefully.

All this reminds me of the inaudible dialog exchanged during their first fishing trip together after the reunion trip up the mountains. Without the screenplay, I would never have made the effort to listen carefully to the words exchanged here about beans and shooting a cayote. I should check, but as far as the dialog in the SNIT is concerned, the screenplay is silent about this, no? I would guess that the words exchanged were improvised by Jake Gyllenhaal, and would therefore not be documented. Hence, the confusion as to what was exactly said...

NoReins · « **Reply #42 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 11:54 AM »

I think you're right, Thomas, about Jake having improvised. The only SNIT dialogue in the screenplay is Jack saying "it's alright...it's alright" so I think the rest was just Jake. And no-one ever asked him what he said, despite all those interviews

They should have let one of us have a go, huh?

tpe · « **Reply #43 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 12:11 PM »

Yes, he could re-enact the SNIT with us anytime!

You're right. Now I do recall that the screenplay only gives "it's alright...it's alright". THis I hear distinctly enough -- or is it just because I expect to hear it?

Improvisation makes movie dialogs a bit more interesting! We should create a separate thread just on such tidbits from the actors and the various scenes... But I guess the implicit assumption is that the published screenplay was the one that was followed...

welshwitch · « **Reply #44 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 12:49 PM »

But there are lots of little deviations in the dialogue - I reckon there was a printed script which was chaged as they shot the movie, some of the improvized lines being included and some not. It makes sense that the ones where they're alone may include such lines - the was su[posedly only a cameraman in the tent with tehm, eg, and Ang looking at what was shot afterwards and during the editing process - but his first priority wouldn't be to correct the text that was going to be issued, would it?

If you've read anything about the transmission of Shakespeare's text, then nothing that happens in the way of distortions surprises you.

tpe · « **Reply #45 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 03:40 PM »

I think Ang may have even encouraged some deviation from the text.

BBM Fan · « **Reply #46 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 08:02 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Dec 28, 2006, 12:49 PM

But there are lots of little deviations in the dialogue - I reckon there was a printed script which was changed as they shot the movie, some of the improvised lines being included and some not. It makes sense that the ones where they're alone may include such lines - the was su[posedly only a cameraman in the tent with tehm, eg, and Ang looking at what was shot afterwards and during the editing process - but his first priority wouldn't be to correct the text that was going to be issued, would it?

If you've read anything about the transmission of Shakespeare's text, then nothing that happens in the way of distortions surprises you.

I had read somewhere that Jake said Ang was pretty specific about most of his direction, but when it came to the love scenes, he let them have a little free rein. I guess so. Now if it's for the good of the group/forum, I would be happy to sacrifice and attempt to contact Jake to re-enact the scene. I do live relatively near him.

BBM Fan · « **Reply #47 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 08:05 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Dec 28, 2006, 11:38 AM

I've just listened to it with headphones and I heard Jack say c'mere just before he kisses Ennis. Pretty sure it's then sorry...it's alright...it's alright and then another c'mere or maybe come on just before they lie back down. Don't hear lie back/down though....and I did watch half a dozen times, with the volume very loud

NoReins - did you hear anything like "kiss me" just before he kisses Ennis? It's almost just "ks me". Listen again and let me know if you hear it.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #48 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 08:55 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Dec 28, 2006, 11:38 AM

I've just listened to it with headphones and I heard Jack say c'mere just before he kisses Ennis. Pretty sure it's then sorry...it's alright...it's alright and then another c'mere or maybe come on just before they lie back down. Don't hear lie back/down though....and I did watch half a dozen times, with the volume very loud

That's pretty much what I heard- I used the headphones tonight and watched it a few times- Once I even closed my eyes to just listen and I can't hear kiss me or lie back. And yes NR they should have let one of us have a go at interviewing them

BBM Fan · « **Reply #49 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 10:50 PM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Dec 28, 2006, 08:55 PM

That's pretty much what I heard- I used the headphones tonight and watched it a few times- Once I even closed my eyes to just listen and I can't hear kiss me or lie back. And yes NR they should have let one of us have a go at interviewing them

Interviewing them? Or auditioning them?

LJN: Listen again with the headphones. Just right before he kisses Ennis, you should hear "...kiss me". Or at least ".....iss me". And - I still can't hear anything in the "shirts" scene & I've tried just like you said - I am persistent and it is on again tonight on HBO - I actually thought I heard the "Jack" once. can't wait for the DVD. N.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #50 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 10:53 PM »

Well one thing would lead to another

I will try try again BBM Fan

tpe · « **Reply #51 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 08:19 AM »

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 28, 2006, 08:02 PM

I had read somewhere that Jake said Ang was pretty specific about most of his direction, but when it came to the love scenes, he let them have a little free rein. I guess so. Now if it's for the good of the group/forum, I would be happy to sacrifice and attempt to contact Jake to re-enact the scene. I do live relatively near him.

I think Jake had mixed feeling about certain things regarding Ang's direction, but overall he appreciated the sensitivity of Ang's style. And as you implied, the SNIT certainly must have been one of the scenes where improvisation became necessary for want of more specific direction.

Take advantage of the close proximity. I assume you will be involved in the re-enactment?

BBM Fan · « **Reply #52 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 08:56 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Dec 29, 2006, 08:19 AM

I think Jake had mixed feeling about certain things regarding Ang's direction, but overall he appreciated the sensitivity of Ang's style. And as you implied, the SNIT certainly must have been one of the scenes where improvisation became necessary for want of more specific direction.

Take advantage of the close proximity. I assume you will be involved in the re-enactment?

tpe: I agree with that.

Involved? Honey, I'd be orchestrating! Seeing as how I'm old enough to be his mother,

I don't think the close proximity will help much.

welshwitch · « **Reply #53 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 09:04 AM »

Rubbish! For all you know he may go for older women - or so I tell myself.

OK, OK, OT.

I've never managed to hear anything in the scene where Ennis finds the shirts but I can hear all these phrases in the SNIT with the exception of "Lie back".

tpe · « **Reply #54 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 09:42 AM »

Months back, I did not believe it when someone said they heard "I'm sorry" said in this scene, but since then, I have reconsidered. Why not? I still discover bits of (improvised?) dialog that I missed...

Del Mar Twist · « **Reply #55 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 10:05 AM »

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 24, 2006, 05:40 PM

Del Mar Twist - I agree with you now about Jack saying everything in the SNIT, But - Now more new information, at least for me. This is the first i heard "lie back - come on", but i like it & have listened several more times - i can't quite make it out, but think you're right. I, too, use headphones, but sometimes it's easier for me to hear if i just close my eyes and concentrate on them rather than the picture.

I can turn down the background music, and my headphones are studio quality, so I hear the dialouge pretty well.

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 24, 2006, 05:40 PM

In the reunion scene - when Ennis started pushing Jack against the wall, it sounds like he said something. Did you hear that? And when he was pulling Jack off him just before he went upstairs, did you here Ennis say, "later"? A couple people mentioned that, but i can't quite catch it. I thought my hearing was good in my "old age", but this is driving me crazy. I appreciate your responses.

Have a good holiday.

BBM Fan

The Reunion Scene goes like this....

Ennis stands at the top of the stairs and says, "Jack F**ckin' Twist." Runs, and jumps down a few steps to get to Jack.

Jack and Ennis hug, and Jack says, "Son Of A Bitch."

Ennis grabs Jack moves him back as he says, "Come Here." The two kiss.

Once they stop, and give each other the wanting gazes and Eskimo kisses, Ennis lightly slaps the left side of Jack's face and whispers, "Hey."

Quote from: jackster on Dec 24, 2006, 11:54 PM

I believe you've hit it exactly right DelMarTwist. Both in WHAT was said and WHY it was said. Those darn subtitle folks have confused it greatly with their visual placement of the words making it look like Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think you're right, Jack says it, and is sorry for being a little too forward with what is actually their FIRST kiss. I'm not sure Ennis was really prepared for a man-to-man kiss, but he came around pretty quick.

I don't think Ennis came around quickly at all. Remember Ennis never initiated a kiss until the Reunion Scene.

Quote from: jackster on Dec 24, 2006, 11:54 PM

What do you think Ennis thought was going to happen when he went to the tent after sitting by the fire and contemplating the situation? Do you think he thought maybe they would just talk about the FNIT or do you think he expected action? I've always felt this move by Ennis, getting up from the camp fire going to the tent, was the pivitol point in the film. If that hadn't happened, it would have been literally "A one shot thing", the rest of they story (as we know it) would not have evolved.

jackster

Well I think when Ennis said, "This is a one-shot thingwe got goin on here." he meant that the rest of the time they were up on Brokeback Mountain they can have sex, but once they come down, that's it.

Then you have Jack saying, "It's nobody's buisiness but ours." Which is Jack's way of assuring Ennis that no one will know, and it's like saying, "What happens in Mexico/Vegas, stays in Mexico/Vegas."

When Ennis was sitting outside of the tent that night he was nervous. This time he had to make the first move, there wasn't anymore getting drunk and waiting for Jack to grab his hand. If Ennis wanted anything to happen Jack made sure that Ennis would have to make the first move this time, that's why Jack was laying in the tent without his shirt on, so when Ennis walked in he knew what was going to happen, and knew he made the firt move this time.

Plus you have to keep in mind, that until that first night in the tent, Ennis was a virgin. He never had sex at all, so that night he gave Jak his virginity.

BBM Fan · « **Reply #56 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 07:39 PM »

Quote from: Del Mar Twist on Dec 29, 2006, 10:05 AM

I can turn down the background music, and my headphones are studio quality, so I hear the dialogue pretty well.

The Reunion Scene goes like this....

Ennis stands at the top of the stairs and says, "Jack F**ckin' Twist." Runs, and jumps down a few steps to get to Jack.

Jack and Ennis hug, and Jack says, "Son Of A Bitch."

Ennis grabs Jack moves him back as he says, "Come Here." The two kiss.

Once they stop, and give each other the wanting gazes and Eskimo kisses, Ennis lightly slaps the left side of Jack's face and whispers, "Hey."

I don't think Ennis came around quickly at all. Remember Ennis never initiated a kiss until the Reunion Scene.

Well I think when Ennis said, "This is a one-shot thing we got goin on here." he meant that the rest of the time they were up on Brokeback Mountain they can have sex, but once they come down, that's it.

Then you have Jack saying, "It's nobody's business but ours." Which is Jack's way of assuring Ennis that no one will know, and it's like saying, "What happens in Mexico/Vegas, stays in Mexico/Vegas."

When Ennis was sitting outside of the tent that night he was nervous. This time he had to make the first move, there wasn't anymore getting drunk and waiting for Jack to grab his hand. If Ennis wanted anything to happen Jack made sure that Ennis would have to make the first move this time, that's why Jack was laying in the tent without his shirt on, so when Ennis walked in he knew what was going to happen, and knew he made the first move this time.

Plus you have to keep in mind, that until that first night in the tent, Ennis was a virgin. He never had sex at all, so that night he gave Jack his virginity.

Del Mar: Why do you think he was a virgin? I thought he was too, until I saw the FNIT scene. It seemed in the FNIT he knew exactly what to do (once he got into it). Now you're going to say that he'd learned that from watching movies, but to me, it all came too spontaneously for it to be his first time. Watcha think?

Del Mar Twist · « **Reply #57 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 11:39 PM »

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 29, 2006, 07:39 PM

Del Mar: Why do you think he was a virgin? I thought he was too, until I saw the FNIT scene.

Before the first night in the tent, they were drinking and Jack was singing 'Water-Walking Jessus', and they got to talking about the Pentecost, and Jack said "Fellas like you and me, we march off to hell." Ennis replied with, "Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." To which Jack said "Hmm." and handed Ennis back the whiskey.

Ennis didn't have sex before marriage, so he wasn't a sinner. Not that he wouldn't of had it, like he said he just never had the opportunity to. Jack's "Hmm.", and him handing Ennis the whiskey is fortelling of what happens latter that night.

Quote from: BBM Fan on Dec 29, 2006, 07:39 PM

It seemed in the FNIT he knew exactly what to do (once he got into it). Now you're going to say that he'd learned that from watching movies, but to me, it all came too spontaneously for it to be his first time. Watcha think?

It's a natural instinct. Animals aren't trained to have sex, they just know how to, and humans are the same way, we instinctively know what to do. Insert peg A into slot B. Annie Proulx said it in the short story, "Nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed." Plus he did grow up on ranches, so I'm sure he's saw a few animals going at it, and his brother, or his father could have told him about sex.

BBM Fan · « **Reply #58 on:** Dec 30, 2006, 01:39 AM »

Quote from: Del Mar Twist on Dec 29, 2006, 11:39 PM

Before the first night in the tent, they were drinking and Jack was singing 'Water-Walking Jesus', and they got to talking about the Pentecost, and Jack said "Fellas like you and me, we march off to hell." Ennis replied with, "Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." To which Jack said "Hmm." and handed Ennis back the whiskey.

Ennis didn't have sex before marriage, so he wasn't a sinner. Not that he wouldn't of had it, like he said he just never had the opportunity to. Jack's "Hmm.", and him handing Ennis the whiskey is fortelling of what happens latter that night.

It's a natural instinct. Animals aren't trained to have sex, they just know how to, and humans are the same way, we instinctively know what to do. Insert peg A into slot B. Annie Proulx said it in the short story, "Nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed." Plus he did grow up on ranches, so I'm sure he's saw a few animals going at it, and his brother, or his father could have told him about sex.

Del Mar: You gave me quite a chuckle!

Peg A - Slot B - I hadn't thought of it that way.

I guess I was thinking he meant he hadn't had sex with a man when he said he wasn't a sinner. But I guess that's what we're talking about anyway. I'm convinced!

aintfoolin · « **Reply #59 on:** Dec 30, 2006, 01:52 AM »

Yep, when your raised on a farm, you quickly find out what goes where, but since they're defintly not farm animals, we won't go there. And who the hell brings instruction manuals to bed? Jack painted the picture very nicely for him by going down on all fours and saying "comon", He gave the "greenlight" and Ennis simply "crossed the street".

Author Topic: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene? (Read 84828 times)

greenfrog