Author Topic: 4F?  (Read 9826 times)

Offline Allan

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4F?
« on: Jan 30, 2006, 08:31 PM »
Since there may be some of you not familiar with being 4F... It's a military classification meaning that you are, for some reason, unfit for military service.  The opposite of 4F is 1A.

In regard to why Jack didn't get drafted (a fear of his) Annie tells us: "(Ennis is speaking)...Army didn?t get you?? The thunder sounded far to the east, moving from them in its red wreaths of light.
?They can?t get no use out a me. Got some crushed vertebrates. And a stress fracture, the arm bone here, you know how bull ridin you?re always leverin it off your thigh??she gives a little ever time you do it. Even if you tape it good you break it a little goddam bit at a time. Tell you what, hurts like a bitch afterward. Had a busted leg. Busted in three places. Come off the bull and it was a big bull with a lot a drop, he got rid a me in about three flat and he come after me and he was sure faster. Lucky enough. Friend a mine got his oil checked with a horn dipstick and that was all she wrote. Bunch a other things, fu**in busted ribs, sprains and pains, torn ligaments. See, it ain?t like it was in my daddy?s time. It?s guys with money go to college, trained athaletes. You got to have some money to rodeo now. Lureen?s old man wouldn?t give me a dime if I dropped it, except one way. And I know enough about the game now so I see that I ain?t never goin a be on the bubble. Other reasons. I?m gettin out while I still can walk.?
Ennis pulled Jack?s hand to his mouth, took a hit from the cigarette, exhaled. ?Sure as hell seem in one piece to me.

The screenplay puts it a bit more succinctly:  Ennis: Army didn't get you?  Jack: Nope, too busted up.  And, the rodeo ani't like it was in my Daddy's time.  Got out while I could still walk.

I find the litany of injuries that Jack offers in the story a little suspect (apparently Ennis does, too).  I had my army physical at about the same time that Jack would have.  I remember very clearly the written form you had to fill out, and I remember the "magic box," the one you checked if you had "homosexual tendencies."  I remember thinking, "Hum? Tendencies.  That doesn't sound too bad.  I mean it asks if I have tendencies, not if I act on them."  So, I checked the box.  When the "nice man" went over my form with me, he stopped at the box.  He said, "Did you mean to check that box?" and I said, "Yes."  "Get your clothes on and wait over there," was his gruff (truly, gruff) response.  Later I was trooped into a room with the other 4Fs.  We were told how un-American that we were, that we could never hold public office, and that the information gathered on us that day could be used to "assist" us in finding employment at any time in our lives.

I think Jack would have read that box the same way I did.  He surely recognized that he had "tendencies."  I think that Jack checked the box... and that long list of injuries that he offers in response to a simple question is just a cover-up to keep from telling Ennis the truth.

Offline rane99

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 30, 2006, 10:19 PM »
Since there may be some of you not familiar with being 4F... It's a military classification meaning that you are, for some reason, unfit for military service.  The opposite of 4F is 1A.

 I remember very clearly the written form you had to fill out, and I remember the "magic box," the one you checked if you had "homosexual tendencies."  I remember thinking, "Hum? Tendencies.  That doesn't sound too bad.  I mean it asks if I have tendencies, not if I act on them." 

I think Jack would have read that box the same way I did.  He surely recognized that he had "tendencies."  I think that Jack checked the box... and that long list of injuries that he offers in response to a simple question is just a cover-up to keep from telling Ennis the truth.

Very plausable... Jack does seem to overexplain there...  he doth protest too much...   Good Catch!!
So's long as the bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring

Offline tpe

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 31, 2006, 08:02 AM »
Very interesting insight.  Also, thanks for sharing your experience.  I think people tend to forget that in many quarters of the USA and in other countries, things have not changed much with respect to 'assisting' those with homosexual tendencies...

Offline fogtownduke

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 31, 2006, 06:29 PM »
That is an interesting point about the 4F status, but I'm inclined to stick to the text on this one.  His lengthy description/explanation is very believable to me (i lived with a bull rider for a couple of years ;-)

cheers

Offline rane99

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 31, 2006, 06:47 PM »
... and that long list of injuries that he offers in response to a simple question is just a cover-up to keep from telling Ennis the truth.

Still agree with you.. I have been reading Annie Prouxl for years. I love all her books.  She does not put anything in her stories by accident.. she is a true wordsmith. I am not saying that Jack didn't get injured at all or that those injuries are not possible for that sport... I just saying that If you take into account that Jack's list of of injuries, OVER-explantion, if you will,  in light of of the character's usual economy of dialogue, especially Ennis of course, his lengthy explanation definitely is telling.  This is subtle and not usually caught at first glance.
 
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2006, 07:33 PM by rane99 »
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Offline backtobrokeback

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 01, 2006, 04:19 PM »
I think that Jack is pretty good at embellishing, frankly, but I didn't doubt the truth of his story for one minute.  As for what Ennis thought, well, I interpreted that very differently than Allan did:
Quote
I find the litany of injuries that Jack offers in the story a little suspect (apparently Ennis does, too).

To me, that line is Ennis's rejoinder to Jack's "Christ, it got a be all that time a yours ahorseback makes it so goddamn good," a compliment at how damn HOT he finds Jack, and how much he's missed his um, talents.  "Sure as hell seem in one piece to me." isn't a suspicion, it's lust.

And if you're not buying that, let's remember that Jack is more than a little guilty for not having kept things up with Ennis, and he's left to explain his absence as best he can.  Again, not lying, but embellishing his probably dull life and lack of good reason for not returning one or two or three years earlier.  ("I didn't know where in the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you. I figured you was sore about that punch.")

Of course he *does* lie, right after that, about sleeping with other guys. 

btb
« Last Edit: Feb 01, 2006, 04:24 PM by backtobrokeback »
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Offline jimnick

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 01, 2006, 05:17 PM »
btb:

Of course he *does* lie, right after that, about sleeping with other guys.

What makes you think this is the case?  I didn't come away thinking that Jack had persued relations with other men by that time.  I believed him when he said to Ennis that he hadn't been with other guys.  And, the Mexico thing was much later and probably scarce.  I don't believe that Jack ever lied to Ennis.  If he had, then he wouldn't have bothered being honest about going to Mexico in the first place.  I don't think he told Ennis everything that may have happened during their time apart, but I don't think he is a liar.  I think he loves Ennis too much to lie to him.

Jim

Offline Allan

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 01, 2006, 06:07 PM »
I don't think he is a liar.  I think he loves Ennis too much to lie to him.

Jim

I'm afraid you're being a little too trusting of Jack.  Read the story.  Ms. Proulx makes it pretty clear in a number of passage that Jack is not being truthful.  Perhaps the clearest is this very moment that we're talking about: "You do it with other guys, Jack?" "Shit no," said Jack, who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own."

Jack acknowledges that he is not as strong as Ennis.  He lies to Ennis because he loves too much to allow the truth to hurt him.  Besides, Jack's daliances are phyical.  His heart belongs to Ennis. 

Offline jimnick

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 01, 2006, 06:45 PM »
OK Allen:

I guess that maybe I may be too trusting of Jack.  I suppose that i wasn't paying enough attention to the words around Jack's reply to Ennis the first hundred times I read it.  I have it here on my desktop computer constantly ready for referral and, and sure enough, she makes these remarks.  I'm reckon I'm too gullible to think about that she is saying.  All I see is Jack saying that he has kept himself for Ennis.  Maybe you are right.  Maybe he has kept only his heart for Ennis and given his a** to whoever.  Jack shouldn't lie to Ennis.  My whole world is changed and darkened.

Jim

Offline Allan

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 01, 2006, 07:00 PM »
OK Allen:

 My whole world is changed and darkened.

Jim

I'm sorry.  I really didn't mean for my comment to be a downer.  I have enough sorrow over this story myself, and I certainly don't mean to it pass around.

So... I'm going to try to get us out of it with another consideration of the "4F" situation.  Jack says he's concerned that the army will get him... Ennis asks about the army not having gotten him... but what about Ennis?  They're the same age.  Technically, when you turned 18 you went... if I remember correctly... to the postoffice where you "registered" for the draft.  Basically, you filled out a card with your name, address , and age and sent it in to the Army.  At some time in the next couple of years you got called up for your physical (I was 19 when I got mine).  If you passed... you got drafted.  Ennis and Jack are the same age.  They ought to have gone through this process at about the same time, but Ennis has no concerns about the military.  Anybody got any thoughts as to why???  Allan

Offline Toadily

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 01, 2006, 07:04 PM »
OK Allen:

 My whole world is changed and darkened.

Jim

I'm sorry.  I really didn't mean for my comment to be a downer.  I have enough sorrow over this story myself, and I certainly don't mean to it pass around.

So... I'm going to try to get us out of it with another consideration of the "4F" situation.  Jack says he's concerned that the army will get him... Ennis asks about the army not having gotten him... but what about Ennis?  They're the same age.  Technically, when you turned 18 you went... if I remember correctly... to the postoffice where you "registered" for the draft.  Basically, you filled out a card with your name, address , and age and sent it in to the Army.  At some time in the next couple of years you got called up for your physical (I was 19 when I got mine).  If you passed... you got drafted.  Ennis and Jack are the same age.  They ought to have gone through this process at about the same time, but Ennis has no concerns about the military.  Anybody got any thoughts as to why???  Allan

I think we talked about this on another thread, but wasn't the face Ennis was married kept him out?  And that was implied as to why Jack may also have been more interested in getting married than he might have been otherwise?  I seem to recall early in during the Vietnam years being married helped keep you out.
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Offline Allan

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 01, 2006, 07:15 PM »
 
Quote

I think we talked about this on another thread, but wasn't the face Ennis was married kept him out?  And that was implied as to why Jack may also have been more interested in getting married than he might have been otherwise?  I seem to recall early in during the Vietnam years being married helped keep you out.
Quote

Thanks.  That sounds reasonable.

Offline jimnick

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 01, 2006, 07:27 PM »
I suppose so, or maybe Jack told on himself to keep out of the draft.  Seems unlikely that he would lie to Ennis and tell the truth to the army though.  But, what do I know.  You could p*ss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.  Allen, please forgive me.  I don't mean so downhearted, and it's never proper to shoot the messenger...  I'll get over it.  If anything, it is just another example of what a great writer AP really is.  The more you read (and reread) the deeper it all gets.  Thanks for bringing this up and for being patient with stubborn me.  I enjoy reading your writings very much.  You make me think, and anyone can tell you, that's no easy accomplishment.

Jim

 ;D  ;D

JerBear418720

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 03, 2006, 12:13 AM »
If I recall correctly, being married WITH KIDS could keep you out of the draft back then.  It would have been very topical for 2 19yos to be discussing the military - it became more and more of a hot button issue as we moved thru the 60s (Vietnam was escalated in 1964).  This, the Thesher reference and Aguirre's 1959 Rambler (which looked fairly late model in the movie) were some of the few reference points that tied the beginning of the story to the early 60s.

Interesting too - if slightly off topic - that Proulx fixed on 1963 - the year the whole country was traumatized by the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (11.22.1963).

No, I'm not referencing a history book, just my own memory - I was 15 that year.

Offline manila_rocks

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Re: 4F?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 08, 2006, 02:46 AM »
I hate the bulkhead.  It's 4F for me..