Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: cornflake on Nov 30, 2006, 03:17 AM
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Hello together,
don´t know if this thread already exist...
yesterday i discorvered that in the snit scene there is a little but of spittle between ennis´ and jack´s mouths :)
very funny and sexy to see *g*
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Hello cornflake. Yes, that had been noted in an old thread, although it has not been a subject of a thread -- if I recall correctly. Perhaps we should consider this thread as a discussion of the use of spitting/spittle to highten dramatic tension in the various scenes.
Specifically, I note that in the post-divorce meeting (am I correct?) as well as in the final meeting, Ennis spits at certain critical points. I got the impression that this was a mannerism that he uses in part to decrease tension.
As for the scene you mention, it shows us how real the action was. They were really kissing -- not just pretending to kiss.
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tpe, you´re right! that´s the most importan thing.. they were REALLY kissing.. omg that´s wonderful *sniff*
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I noticed the thread of saliva on my second viewing. I found it deeply poetic: a thin bridge connecting two struggling souls.
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tpe, even after a few viewings, I didn't notice it till someone pointed it out to me. The next time I watched, it bothered me a little (don't know why). But since then I've looked at it more the way you do. It's part of their connection. And I do like that it's so real too. I can't say enough about how impressed I was with these actors.
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tpe, that´s so sweet. omg, i love this scene.
do u think it was an accident by the actors... or was it the plan?
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tpe, even after a few viewings, I didn't notice it till someone pointed it out to me. The next time I watched, it bothered me a little (don't know why). But since then I've looked at it more the way you do. It's part of their connection. And I do like that it's so real too. I can't say enough about how impressed I was with these actors.
I was quite impressed when I first noticed it. There was no attempt to make it look "neat". It spoke of honesty. And there was nothing disgusting about this detail.
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tpe, that´s so sweet. omg, i love this scene.
do u think it was an accident by the actors... or was it the plan?
I think the actors certainly intended to do a true-to-life kiss. It just so happened that this detail was inadvertently captured during filming. Did they do many takes on this? I seem to recall Jake saying that they did this a number of times (or was it the other kiss?) If there were many takes, then it is plausible that Ang Lee noticed this detail and chose it -- to show the realism of that kiss.
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tpe, that´s so sweet. omg, i love this scene.
do u think it was an accident by the actors... or was it the plan?
I wonder how they would have pulled it off if it was intentional?
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don´t know, too ;)
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I wonder how they would have pulled it off if it was intentional?
They did say that it was just like kissing another fellow human being... I can see that after a few tries, the novelty of it all wears off rather quickly for both of them.
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I wonder how they would have pulled it off if it was intentional?
They did say that it was just like kissing another fellow human being... I can see that after a few tries, the novelty of it all wears off rather quickly for both of them.
Still, to me, it was one of the all time best SCREEN kisses I have ever seen...it made my toes curl! >:D
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I would cite the two great ones in this film: the SNIT kiss, and the Reunion kiss. I can't choose between the two, although (back to the saliva), the former is more tender and intimate, whereas the latter just lifts you off your feet.
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I would cite the two great ones in this film: the SNIT kiss, and the Reunion kiss. I can't choose between the two, although (back to the saliva), the former is more tender and intimate, whereas the latter just lifts you off your feet.
I loved the saliva in the SNIT kiss, noticed it probably the second time also, as you did, tpe. Oh, right there on the gigantic screen -- I thought it was quite hot.
As to the whole spitting thing, I've discussed this before in a fanfic thread but haven't come to any very good conclusions. And it was discussed here, too, whenever that was. I guess I'm one who thinks just that it was a common thing to do, for men in this time and place to spit -- also because it's all dusty and stuff, where they live and work. I think it was used to good effect in all the scenes, as kind of punctuation, but I wouldn't go too much deeper than that...though if anyone else does I'd be interested. I love all the minutest symbology in these discussions of the film.
As to Ennis spitting on his hand to use on himself in the FNIT sex...all I can say is...well I think I won't say it. TMI perhaps. Just that it was a fascinating detail in this fascinating scene. (Purely cimematic/literary appreciation, you know.) (Excuse me while I cool down.)
kathy
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OH I love the spit string! <^( :d) I think it was the reunion kiss that they did a lot of takes on- I think at Michelle's request if I am not mistaken (read that somewhere here). I love both kisses- I now cry through both scenes. Both are tender in their own way- the SNIT because it's the first and it's just so tender and intimate. The reunion because they are breathing for the first time in 4 years and the way Jack looks almost as if he's going to cry because he may have hoped for that but I don't think he was expecting it to happen like that. <^(
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I, too love the spittle. Noticed it right away the first time I saw the movie. <^(
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I did'nt notice it at first but when I did I thought DAMN this is REAL! So erotic.
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(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbrokeback_mountain%2Fcaps%2FPDVD_032.bmp&hash=6ce2c1b557050783baa56e6f1d5af09bda464726)
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(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbrokeback_mountain%2Fcaps%2FPDVD_032.bmp&hash=6ce2c1b557050783baa56e6f1d5af09bda464726)
Beautiful <^( Don't really know why, but that spit string makes me feel all gooey inside...
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Beautiful <^( Don't really know why, but that spit string makes me feel all gooey inside...
;D I know. It really is sort of a quirky thing to get all mushy about.
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(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbrokeback_mountain%2Fcaps%2FPDVD_032.bmp&hash=6ce2c1b557050783baa56e6f1d5af09bda464726)
Oh thank you carbyville -- thank you. Beautiful and hot.
kathy
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;D I know. It really is sort of a quirky thing to get all mushy about.
Not really. Bodily fluids = sex, sex, sexy. Also, as a very real appreciation for these two men to have done this to make Ennis and Jack real.
kathy
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(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbrokeback_mountain%2Fcaps%2FPDVD_032.bmp&hash=6ce2c1b557050783baa56e6f1d5af09bda464726)
This is such a beautiful picture Carby :^^)
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;D I know. It really is sort of a quirky thing to get all mushy about.
Not really. Bodily fluids = sex, sex, sexy. Also, as a very real appreciation for these two men to have done this to make Ennis and Jack real.
kathy
Of course. But I mean it's quirky when compared to everything else in that scene. Shirtless Jack, Ennis exploring Jack's chest with his hands, Jack on top of Ennis, the hunger in their kisses, the tenderness of it all. Out of all that, we are talking about a little bit of spittle that some people probably don't even notice right away. Just makes it quirky to me.
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It adds to this this tender ,yet very erotic scene.
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The detail about Ennis applying spittle on himself is of course in the short story. Although I half-expected it, I must admit that I did like the way this was realized cinematically -- very matter-of-factly, I should add.
The thread of spittle is a wonderful detail that certainly makes you believe in their new-found intimacy. It made the enite SNIT all the more beautiful.
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Of course. But I mean it's quirky when compared to everything else in that scene. Shirtless Jack, Ennis exploring Jack's chest with his hands, Jack on top of Ennis, the hunger in their kisses, the tenderness of it all. Out of all that, we are talking about a little bit of spittle that some people probably don't even notice right away. Just makes it quirky to me.
Great list there, carbyville :) That scene is just the most beautiful, most mesmerising love scene, like, ever IMO <^( The spit string is just the icing on the cake for me, it makes me go all gooey inside <^( I thought I noticed it the first time, but I wasn't 100% sure if it was just my imagination, I nearly passed out when I watched it again and saw it was real...OMG,I so want to watch that scene again NOW, but I've promised myself not to watch the DVD until the London get-together, I haven't cracked yet and it's been nearly four months ;) Roll on Saturday ;D
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The detail about Ennis applying spittle on himself is of course in the short story. Although I half-expected it, I must admit that I did like the way this was realized cinematically -- very matter-of-factly, I should add.
The thread of spittle is a wonderful detail that certainly makes you believe in their new-found intimacy. It made the enite SNIT all the more beautiful.
I hadn't read the ss when I first saw the movie, so I had no idea what to expect from FNIT. When I saw Ennis spitting my eyes nearly popped out of my head! I wasn't shocked in a prudish sort of way (it would take a lot more than that to shock me!), but because I didn't expect it to be so gritty and realistic. It certainly wasn't your average Hollywood sex scene, all nice and clean and perfect, and not particularly believable ::)I imagine a lot of people were quite shocked by it, and probably found Ennis spitting on himself distasteful, but I thought it was brilliantly done in the context of the scene, you get a real sense of how raw and instinctive that first night was for both of them, all that wild passion let loose...Wow!! Of course when I read the ss, it made even more sense why it was there. They could have not included it of course, but I'm glad they did, the scene wouldn't have worked as well without it :)
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Of course. But I mean it's quirky when compared to everything else in that scene. Shirtless Jack, Ennis exploring Jack's chest with his hands, Jack on top of Ennis, the hunger in their kisses, the tenderness of it all. Out of all that, we are talking about a little bit of spittle that some people probably don't even notice right away. Just makes it quirky to me.
Beautiful description Carby <^( <^( <^(
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I hadn't read the ss when I first saw the movie, so I had no idea what to expect from FNIT. When I saw Ennis spitting my eyes nearly popped out of my head! I wasn't shocked in a prudish sort of way (it would take a lot more than that to shock me!), but because I didn't expect it to be so gritty and realistic. It certainly wasn't your average Hollywood sex scene, all nice and clean and perfect, and not particularly believable ::)I imagine a lot of people were quite shocked by it, and probably found Ennis spitting on himself distasteful, but I thought it was brilliantly done in the context of the scene, you get a real sense of how raw and instinctive that first night was for both of them, all that wild passion let loose...Wow!! Of course when I read the ss, it made even more sense why it was there. They could have not included it of course, but I'm glad they did, the scene wouldn't have worked as well without it :)
That they included it shows their sensitivity to the details of the short story. Still -- as you had noted -- that detail was effectively realized: nothing explicit, everything implied, but you had no doubt about what was being done. And it looked so natural -- too natural, for some, I believe. The main criticism from some quarters was that Ennis seemed to know exactly what to do. Well, the short story also put this quite nicely. There is a fluidity to the FNIT that hides behind the obvious "animalism" that prevails. Quite beautifully done. Like a short divertissement in a ballet...
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I hadn't read the ss when I first saw the movie, so I had no idea what to expect from FNIT. When I saw Ennis spitting my eyes nearly popped out of my head! I wasn't shocked in a prudish sort of way (it would take a lot more than that to shock me!), but because I didn't expect it to be so gritty and realistic. It certainly wasn't your average Hollywood sex scene, all nice and clean and perfect, and not particularly believable ::)I imagine a lot of people were quite shocked by it, and probably found Ennis spitting on himself distasteful, but I thought it was brilliantly done in the context of the scene, you get a real sense of how raw and instinctive that first night was for both of them, all that wild passion let loose...Wow!! Of course when I read the ss, it made even more sense why it was there. They could have not included it of course, but I'm glad they did, the scene wouldn't have worked as well without it :)
This is exactly how I felt, CrimsonSky. I hadn't read the story, either, so had no expectations -- it was quite a raw experience for me, the whole movie. And the FNIT scene, I was shocked exactly as you say you were. Not for me (unless "shocked" means like the most f**king damn hot thing I'd sure ever seen up so close and personal, in a manner of speaking...) but because they showed this reality of gay sex without cutting away. There on the gigantic screen! I was certain others were finding it shocking. And I, too, was so glad Ang Lee and the others wanted to put this in.
kathy
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Of course. But I mean it's quirky when compared to everything else in that scene. Shirtless Jack, Ennis exploring Jack's chest with his hands, Jack on top of Ennis, the hunger in their kisses, the tenderness of it all. Out of all that, we are talking about a little bit of spittle that some people probably don't even notice right away. Just makes it quirky to me.
:*( I see what you mean. Yes, quirky that we fixate on that, when the whole scene is so incredibly sexy and beautiful.
kathy
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The detail about Ennis applying spittle on himself is of course in the short story. Although I half-expected it, I must admit that I did like the way this was realized cinematically -- very matter-of-factly, I should add.
The thread of spittle is a wonderful detail that certainly makes you believe in their new-found intimacy. It made the enite SNIT all the more beautiful.
Ah, yes. They did do a fantastic job of it. It could have been shown either more purposely, like drawn out, or pointed up; or it could have been glossed over, like you weren't really sure if that's what you saw. But they did it exactly right. (I personally think he needed a little more, like two good spitfuls. Did I say that out loud?)
Hey -- how about a screencap of the spitting in the hand?
kathy
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The detail about Ennis applying spittle on himself is of course in the short story. Although I half-expected it, I must admit that I did like the way this was realized cinematically -- very matter-of-factly, I should add.
The thread of spittle is a wonderful detail that certainly makes you believe in their new-found intimacy. It made the enite SNIT all the more beautiful.
Ah, yes. They did do a fantastic job of it. It could have been shown either more purposely, like drawn out, or pointed up; or it could have been glossed over, like you weren't really sure if that's what you saw. But they did it exactly right. (I personally think he needed a little more, like two good spitfuls. Did I say that out loud?)
Hey -- how about a screencap of the spitting in the hand?
kathy
I've got a few caps of this but I'm going to need a little bit of time so I can lighten the image up because it is so dark that it's almost impossible to see.
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Yeah, he could have used a little bit more in FNIT. :c) ;)
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Hello cornflake. Yes, that had been noted in an old thread, although it has not been a subject of a thread -- if I recall correctly. Perhaps we should consider this thread as a discussion of the use of spitting/spittle to highten dramatic tension in the various scenes.
Specifically, I note that in the post-divorce meeting (am I correct?) as well as in the final meeting, Ennis spits at certain critical points. I got the impression that this was a mannerism that he uses in part to decrease tension.
I've noticed the spitting too, and to me it seems to be a to punctuate an unpleasant or distasteful encounter, and as you said to break a tense moment.
Jack spits when they leave Aguirre's trailer the first time.
He does it again as they are leaving the mountain, after their fight.
Ennis does it after his pre-divorce argument with Alma (when she's going to work).
Ennis spits as Jack is leaving in the post-divorce scene.
Ennis does it again during his and Jack's final argument (just after the 'all them things I don't know" speech).
Can't think of any more off hand. Can't believe that I remembered all those instances. I must have seen this film too many times - nah!!
Karen
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Thank you, karen, for the wonderful list. For some reason, the one I find most beautiful is when Jack spits when they are going down the mountain. I guess this is because both of them are silent and we hear only the bleating of the sheep. Jack's act of spitting is the only really active action that punctuates this scene. This and Ennis's face -- showing a mixture of guilt, sadness, and confusion -- make this scene so memorable -- even though not a single word is uttered.
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Hey -- how about a screencap of the spitting in the hand?
kathy
I think we need at least 2: ennis spitting into his hand, and Ennis applying the spittle to his member. Yes, it would be nice if anyone here can supply 2 screencaps. :)
I do think the single delicate thread was just right. It was not overdone -- and you would miss it if you were not looking carefully enough. It was quiet, delicate, delicious.
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I do think the single delicate thread was just right. It was not overdone -- and you would miss it if you were not looking carefully enough. It was quiet, delicate, delicious.
Here's a question, do you think that this spittle thread was genuinely captured on film or was it added as an effect afterwards to add to the scene?
Karen
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I think it was real, but I must admit that I can't prove it. Good point, karen. But I don't know if they would go to all the trouble simulating it...
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I think it just is what it is and happened naturally. Which I like because they so completely brought these characters to life on the screen and it feels like part of the magic that was captured throughout the whole filming process. Makes the whole thing seem so real.
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I have to admit I was shocked but not offended the first time I watched this FNIT. I thought : They're really going to........OMG!! It looked so real, so deliberate, and I credit direction and two fine actors for this. This act of Ennis spitting into his hand for lube was raw and urgent, yet, so simple and natural at the same time .It symbolized part of who Ennis is IMO Nothing fancy, just sensible. Jack was lucky a man, some may say he made his own luck, with his suspicions that Ennis wanted it too being right , and him refusing to take no for an answer. I adored him. My 2 cents <^(
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Interesting that spit plays into the FNIT and SNIT -- but in very different guises. Yes, the first instance is natural and urgent. The second is tender and lyrical.
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Hey -- how about a screencap of the spitting in the hand?
kathy
I think we need at least 2: ennis spitting into his hand, and Ennis applying the spittle to his member. Yes, it would be nice if anyone here can supply 2 screencaps. :)
I do think the single delicate thread was just right. It was not overdone -- and you would miss it if you were not looking carefully enough. It was quiet, delicate, delicious.
Okay, if you say, so, my friend -- two caps it is.
And that "quiet, delicate, delicious" wet kiss...I'm quietly drooling here...
kathy
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I have to admit I was shocked but not offended the first time I watched this FNIT. I thought : They're really going to........OMG!! It looked so real, so deliberate, and I credit direction and two fine actors for this. This act of Ennis spitting into his hand for lube was raw and urgent, yet, so simple and natural at the same time .It symbolized part of who Ennis is IMO Nothing fancy, just sensible. Jack was lucky a man, some may say he made his own luck, with his suspicions that Ennis wanted it too being right , and him refusing to take no for an answer. I adored him. My 2 cents <^(
Great two cents, aintfoolin. This is a lovely encapsulation of those moments in the tent, and how they were presented to us, and how they represented the characters for us to know them.
I can't swear to this -- may be a faulty memory -- but I'm pretty sure my "OMG" in that scene (shocked but not offended, as you said) consisted of putting my hand over my mouth, or however you describe that. You know, the indrawn breath and the hand over the mouth or else I might have said OMG and other stuff out loud, like JCAlmighty oh boy god help me, etc.
kathy
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I have to admit I was shocked but not offended the first time I watched this FNIT. I thought : They're really going to........OMG!! It looked so real, so deliberate, and I credit direction and two fine actors for this. This act of Ennis spitting into his hand for lube was raw and urgent, yet, so simple and natural at the same time .It symbolized part of who Ennis is IMO Nothing fancy, just sensible. Jack was lucky a man, some may say he made his own luck, with his suspicions that Ennis wanted it too being right , and him refusing to take no for an answer. I adored him. My 2 cents <^(
Great two cents, aintfoolin. This is a lovely encapsulation of those moments in the tent, and how they were presented to us, and how they represented the characters for us to know them.
I can't swear to this -- may be a faulty memory -- but I'm pretty sure my "OMG" in that scene (shocked but not offended, as you said) consisted of putting my hand over my mouth, or however you describe that. You know, the indrawn breath and the hand over the mouth or else I might have said OMG and other stuff out loud, like JCAlmighty oh boy god help me, etc.
kathy
Being 100% honest, when Ennis spit on his hand and lubed himself up I smiled. My OMG moment was Jack pounding the ground with his fist.
Oh and here's one of two pictures..
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbbm%2Fennis%2FPDVD_002.jpg&hash=0ad0fd4adfbcf87ddc66dea47fbbb891965e64fa)
Best I could do.
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Being 100% honest, when Ennis spit on his hand and lubed himself up I smiled. My OMG moment was Jack pounding the ground with his fist.
Oh and here's one of two pictures..
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbbm%2Fennis%2FPDVD_002.jpg&hash=0ad0fd4adfbcf87ddc66dea47fbbb891965e64fa)
Best I could do.
Carby, you've made my day <^( <^( <^(
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Me, too. Thanks!
kathy
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Yes, yes thank you so much for the picture!
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Being 100% honest, when Ennis spit on his hand and lubed himself up I smiled. My OMG moment was Jack pounding the ground with his fist.
Oh and here's one of two pictures..
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbbm%2Fennis%2FPDVD_002.jpg&hash=0ad0fd4adfbcf87ddc66dea47fbbb891965e64fa)
Best I could do.
I had wondered if the fist pounding also suggested the action of masturbation -- something that was implied in the short story. To have shown Jack stimulating himself would have been too much for some people. I think the fist pounding was suggestive as well as effective as an alternative to auto-erotocism.
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I had wondered if the fist pounding also suggested the action of masturbation -- something that was implied in the short story. To have shown Jack stimulating himself would have been too much for some people. I think the fist pounding was suggestive as well as effective as an alternative to auto-erotocism.
Hmm.. never thought of it that way. They definitely wouldn't have been able to show Jack stimulating himself. The thing I noticed about Jack in the beginning of that scene is when he takes Ennis's hand and puts it on himself, the way he puts his face into the pillow and exhales really heavily. He was already good and horny at that point and Ennis's hand on him even through the jeans had him breathing heavily.
Hmm, maybe we should change this from the spittle thread to the FNIT discussion :-X
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I had wondered if the fist pounding also suggested the action of masturbation -- something that was implied in the short story. To have shown Jack stimulating himself would have been too much for some people. I think the fist pounding was suggestive as well as effective as an alternative to auto-erotocism.
Fascinating, tpe. I hadn't thought of that, or, haven't really compared that scene from the movie with the story. Yes, I imagine that would have been a little much, to show Jack masturbating -- it was quite a lot to show on the big screen in such gorgeous raw close-up as it was. It certainly would seem that's what Jack would have done (but what do I know?) Be that as it may, I love the fist-pounding. A very expressive touch nonetheless.
kathy
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To be frank, I was quite surprised to observe that throughout the scene, Jack did not seem to practice any form of auto-stimulation. A viable alternative would have been to assume that Ennis himself assisted Jack in this regard (I think the same hand that Ennis used to apply the spittle was the very same hand that was "unseen" throughout the act). The scene was dark enough that one could imagine this to be so. In any case, one cannot imagine Jack ejaculating without some tactile stimulation -- unless he were like some people who can attain climax solely through pure mental stimulation/suggestion.
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I assumed the pounding on the ground was simply an expression of intense arousal and encouragement but also a parallel with Ennis's pounding on the wall in the scene after he left Jack.
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Spittle can be equated to desire/appetite, no? After all, its production is stimulated by hunger of some kind...
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To be frank, I was quite surprised to observe that throughout the scene, Jack did not seem to practice any form of auto-stimulation. A viable alternative would have been to assume that Ennis himself assisted Jack in this regard (I think the same hand that Ennis used to apply the spittle was the very same hand that was "unseen" throughout the act). The scene was dark enough that one could imagine this to be so. In any case, one cannot imagine Jack ejaculating without some tactile stimulation -- unless he were like some people who can attain climax solely through pure mental stimulation/suggestion.
It's possible. His other hand remains in the scene, holding onto Jack's shirt, while the other one remains "off screen" for most of FNIT. It's not until the very end, right before Ennis's climax do we see that hand again. Many don't even notice it unless it's pointed out. I just re-watched FNIT to make sure.
After Ennis applies the spit to himself and enters Jack, his hand stays down in that general area for a little bit. If you look, Ennis's position resembles the classic "reach around" posture, as if to suggest that he is helping Jack along. A little ways into the scene Jack does move his hand down that way and grabs Ennis's hand and holds it. I can't possibly think of anything else Ennis could have been doing down there with his hand, so I think you may be right, tpe. It's been said that all of the love scenes were choreographed, I am sure this was put into thought when they were "choreographing" FNIT. They wouldn't just let Ennis's hand sitting there idle. There's a reason it stayed down there.
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Thanks carbyville for looking into this. I know that the FNIT is a bit more lighted in the dvd than in the movie, so we can make more careful observations about this scene.
As you said, it is all wonderful choreography, no? Even unto the spittle and it's implied application. Ennis's hand moements are closely tied to this detail, and I thank you for looking into it closer.
The fluid motion starting from the application of spittle to the rapid insertion of the member is wonderfully done -- everything is implied, but by the movements, one can almost "see" the rapid progress of the attack. As I had said in the last post, a thread can be drawn between the use of spittle and moment of sexual hunger. It cross-refernences the senses in a strange but not all unexpected way.
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Thanks carbyville for looking into this. I know that the FNIT is a bit more lighted in the dvd than in the movie, so we can make more careful observations about this scene.
As you said, it is all wonderful choreography, no? Even unto the spittle and it's implied application. Ennis's hand moements are closely tied to this detail, and I thank you for looking into it closer.
The fluid motion starting from the application of spittle to the rapid insertion of the member is wonderfully done -- everything is implied, but by the movements, one can almost "see" the rapid progress of the attack. As I had said in the last post, a thread can be drawn between the use of spittle and moment of sexual hunger. It cross-refernences the senses in a strange but not all unexpected way.
This is lovely. Beautiful words and surmises about this most beautiful and raw act. With all the symbology and meaningfulness (and implied, as you said, tpe, leaving it to viewer to interpret) in the entire movie, this scene was certainly done no less deliberately, by Ang, while I'm sure letting Heath and Jake work out how best to express Ennis and Jack.
And yes, I love the analogy of the spittle and sexual hunger.
kathy
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Spittle is used in so many ways in this movie. It's role as a lubricant in the FNIT matches the raw and abrupt power of that scene. Contrast this with the thread of saliva that graces the SNIT. Surely there can be no greater contrast so worthy of our admiration.
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Spittle is used in so many ways in this movie. It's role as a lubricant in the FNIT matches the raw and abrupt power of that scene. Contrast this with the thread of saliva that graces the SNIT. Surely there can be no greater contrast so worthy of our admiration.
Hmm, in a way i find it a slap in the face the way this subject comes up at the end of the film when Jack's father spits so horribly into his mug. I really wanted to pick the obnoxious little man up and shake him. It was such a mean gesture.
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Hello bella muerte. I thought he was spitting something out his mouth, and yet I did feel that there was more than a hint of contempt in that tiny action. Is it me? You seem to confirm my feelings...
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John Sr's spittling was rude and digusting! It looks to me that he's a tobacco chewer( Barf!) The things poor Mrs. Twist had to endure. GAWD! :(
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I see it the same way (re: Papa Twist) I see it as almost spitting on Jack's dreams. :X
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I see it the same way (re: Papa Twist) I see it as almost spitting on Jack's dreams. :X
Same here.
I hadn't seen this thread before, very interesting. Must go review snit again. ;)
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Of course it's done with contempt and to make it clear, I think, what he thinks of Ennis, who is as bad as Jack, like him in fact, in John Twist's eyes. English has all sorts of expressions of contempt to do with spit - spitting in someone's eye or on their grave, and who was that Vice Presdient who said the job wasn@t worth a pitcher of warm spit? It's an insult and meant to be.
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I'd take a warm wet kiss from either of them any time, practice makes perfect ;)
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I'd take a warm wet kiss from either of them any time, practice makes perfect ;)
I call to mind Patriot1's defense of John Twist. This is why I take care NOT to assume that my feelings about the matter are infallible, even if many of you here share the same opinions with me.
I do try to look at things in a different light, but must admit that I fail at a re-evaluation of John Twist's feelings and actions. It is indeed my opinion that his spitting in that scene indicated contempt. I cannot prove this to be a truth, but I can acknowledge that his is indeed that way I feel about him.
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I feel the same Thomas- He refuses to honor his dead son's (his only child for that matter) last wish. I know as a mother if something happened to one of my girls (God forbid) I don't think I could live. He says "Thought he was too damn special to be buried in the family plot" so I can't see it as anything other than contempt for Jack.
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If Jack expressed a wish to be buried somewhere other than in the family plot, that was in effect a rejection of his family. but since his father thought so little of him and was so contemptuous and uncaring, it's hard to blame Jack for wanting to rest elsewhere, somewhere where he'd been happy.
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It is indeed my opinion that his spitting in that scene indicated contempt. I cannot prove this to be a truth, but I can acknowledge that his is indeed that way I feel about him.
I feel exactly the same, contempt without a doubt.
If Jack expressed a wish to be buried somewhere other than in the family plot, that was in effect a rejection of his family. but since his father thought so little of him and was so contemptuous and uncaring, it's hard to blame Jack for wanting to rest elsewhere, somewhere where he'd been happy.
I doubt that Jack would have thought that his request would be seen as rejecting his family or even considered such a thing, all he wanted was to be at rest in a place that was so very special to him.
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I'm sorry,but I see no redeeming qualities to the old man. According to the SS he did unspeakable things to Jack as a child and tried to beat Jack down every chance he got. probably ran Jack off too. You'd think by nearing his own end that he would at least try to be civil with another human being. but no, he still continues to be an asshole. I agree with the earlier post asking why in the world would Jack want to be buried someplace where the old coot could spit on his grave?
His humiliation of Ennis (bringing up Randall) IMO was a rude (bordering on vulgar) and yes very contemptable display of disrespect for his only son and the man he loved.
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I feel the same Thomas- He refuses to honor his dead son's (his only child for that matter) last wish. I know as a mother if something happened to one of my girls (God forbid) I don't think I could live. He says "Thought he was too damn special to be buried in the family plot" so I can't see it as anything other than contempt for Jack.
I could understand their chagrin at Jack's wish to be buried elsewhere, but that quote from John Twist rings too contemptuous, most especially since it refers to a recently deceased son.
I would also think that action also showed contempt for Ennis. I do think that John Twist knew about the two of them, although this is never explicitly acknowleged in that scene. The spitting seems to hint at this, given the words that were said right before he spat into the cup.
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If Jack expressed a wish to be buried somewhere other than in the family plot, that was in effect a rejection of his family. but since his father thought so little of him and was so contemptuous and uncaring, it's hard to blame Jack for wanting to rest elsewhere, somewhere where he'd been happy.
Yes, as I said in the previous post, I do think the father must have interpreted the request as a rejection.
Personally, I don't think Jack ever intended it to be a rejection, although that is another topic...
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I doubt that Jack would have thought that his request would be seen as rejecting his family or even considered such a thing, all he wanted was to be at rest in a place that was so very special to him.
I find it interesting that I said exactly the same thing in the previous post. WE seem to be tracing a trail of agreement here...
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I'm sorry,but I see no redeeming qualities to the old man. According to the SS he did unspeakable things to Jack as a child and tried to beat Jack down every chance he got. probably ran Jack off too. You'd think by nearing his own end that he would at least try to be civil with another human being. but no, he still continues to be an asshole. I agree with the earlier post asking why in the world would Jack want to be buried someplace where the old coot could spit on his grave?
His humiliation of Ennis (bringing up Randall) IMO was a rude (bordering on vulgar) and yes very contemptable display of disrespect for his only son and the man he loved.
There are two things about John Twist that make me think that he was being contemptuous. The first is the glaring look in his eyes, and the second is, as I had said, the simple act of spitting into the cup.
Spittle and spitting appear in so many guises in this movie. But I must admit that some instances, particularly John Twist's action, can be interpreted in more than one way. If we are correct to say that his action here signifies contempt for Jack and Ennis, then it acts somewhat similarly to other scenes where a character spits in order to relieve tension or pent-up emotions. One could imagine John Twist boiling inside. I would have almost imagined him spitting on Ennis rather than into the cup -- but that is just my feeling. There is still enough ambiguity in this action to merit more than one interpretation.
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I feel the same Thomas- He refuses to honor his dead son's (his only child for that matter) last wish. I know as a mother if something happened to one of my girls (God forbid) I don't think I could live. He says "Thought he was too damn special to be buried in the family plot" so I can't see it as anything other than contempt for Jack.
It was nothing but pure contempt for Ennis's offer and Jack's last request. The glint in his eye and facial expression convey this pretty clearly. how despicable!
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One could imagine John Twist boiling inside. I would have almost imagined him spitting on Ennis rather than into the cup -- but that is just my feeling.
Oh yeah, I am sure he would love to have done that and probably would have if the wife wasn't about.
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Oh yeah, I am sure he would love to have done that and probably would have if the wife wasn't about.
I do think others may think we are being too harsh on John Twist. I just feel this way -- they way the scene was enacted made me feel this way. Does it say something about myself? Do our reactions say something about ourselves? Most likely...
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I just thinkthe resentment towards John Sr. is valid due to his lack of respect for Jack , even in death. He sowed these seeds himself, refusing to honor Jack's wishes to have his ashes spread upon BBM. Never saw Jack;s direct interaction with his father, but we heard enough about him through Jack to come to the conclusion that he was ashamed of his son. Jack alluded to the neglect and coldness with which he was treated by him. His frequent trips to visit Lightning Flat, were probably more out of concern for his mother, than the old man.I feel this critisism comes from a strong desire to see Jack and Ennis receive some respect for the battle they fought to be together. To have a heart. By this time they'd suffered enough. His son is dead and he's still making judgements. Despicable indeed.
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Jack and Ennis have indeed suffered enough. Whatever the cause of John Twist's ambivalence, Ennis and Jack deserved better, Jack, most especially. His last wish should have been honored, most especially by a father.
The symbolism of the spittle may be disputed. The fact that Jack's wishes were not honored is beyond dispute.
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Just for a nanosecond ( and devil's advocate isn't a part I normally play) I can see the horror of John Twist's position. He drove away his son, who felt so little a part of the family and so much attachment elsewhere that he didn't want to be buried among his relations. His son has been murdered, and surely whatever the lies Lureen tells the Twists must have some idea of the truth. Now he's old, with no family other than his wife, from whom jhe also appears to be distant, seeing her sympathy for the man Jack loved and unable to share it - and just as much as Jack buried on the grieving plain, but in his case buried alive.
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I see anger in John Twist's face -- I would have expected sadness. Still, this is my own reading. I can also understand his refusal to agree to Jack's request -- it was like a slap, although I doubt that Jack intended it to be this way.
Getting back to the subject of the spittle, though: I think it hinted at spite, when I would have expected compassion.
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It was NOT Sr's decision to make. Jack had already made his final wishes known to Lureen. I don't know how he got his hands on the ashes at all. Lureen must have made some arrangement, but if only she'd kept them all a little while longer,Ennis would have been able to carry out Jack's last wishes without his interference IMO. Lureen did'nt know if BB mountain really exsisted (so she says) until she talked to Ennis and it was she who requested that Ennis visit Jack's folks to retreive them right? I agree WW. Sr had to live with the fact that he denied his own son happiness, and in this sense he was "buried alive", This would work for me if I thought the man had a concience but if not at this Important milestone in his life, (the murder of his son for Christ sake), when, oh when did he plan on reedeming himself in the eyes of his long suffering wife?, his other close loved one and to his son's memory? He had the chance when Ennis came to him, but what did he do? well......we know.
Maybe, and thats a BIG maybe his insistence on having Jack's ashes there with him was his way of keeping a part of his son alive with him, I doubt this but it maybe a way to redeem himself in some form after all. The thought did cross my mind. Fleeting though it may be. My two cents.
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Maybe, and thats a BIG maybe his insistence on having Jack's ashes there with him was his way of keeping a part of his son alive with him, I doubt this but it maybe a way to redeem himself in some form after all. The thought did cross my mind. Fleeting though it may be. My two cents.
This resonates with me. Is there a father who is so hard of heart that cannot long for a long lost son come back home? After all, John Twist will also be burried in the same plot.
I recall the account of the blind man seeing after the Logos applies spittle and mud on his eyes. Symbolically, the use of spittle in the many scenes of BBM may just be that: invitations for us to look and see. In the case of John Twist, perhaps we can also admit to see a father yearning deep down for a son who was lost to him in life.
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Deep, deep down inside..... Maybe. If he could have brought himself to the point of aknowledging who Ennis really was and what he meant to Jack , that would have been a big hurdle for him to overcome. Accepting Ennis would force him to accept Jack. Accepting Jack would have forced him to accept Ennis AND Jack .....together. I have my doubts, but anything is possible I suppose. IMHO always.
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But why did he spit precisely at that moment when he was talking about Jack coming home and bringing someone with him? I really sensed that he did not accept his sone for who he really was. That is why I think he could never accept Ennis and what he stood for -- as someone who had rightful claim to fulfill Jack's wishes.
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Probably saw Ennis as part of the problem. An extention of what he hated about his own son. His only redeeming quality is that he was married to a woman who loved her son unconditionally. She akknowledged Ennis for who he was and led him to the shirts up stairs. Twist Sr, should have learned alot from her instead of spitting disrespectfully into a cup at the kitchen table with Ennis there to see. Jack's "half-baked notion" in reality, was more than he'll ever know.
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Probably saw Ennis as part of the problem. An extention of what he hated about his own son.
I can agree with this, most certainly. I would even venture to say that I feel he hated anything/anyone that his son treasured, although I cannot prove this as fact.
His only redeeming quality is that he was married to a woman who loved her son unconditionally. She akknowledged Ennis for who he was and led him to the shirts up stairs. Twist Sr, should have learned alot from her instead of spitting disrespectfully into a cup at the kitchen table with Ennis there to see. Jack's "half-baked notion" in reality, was more than he'll ever know.
And I do think that Mrs. Twist treasured anything/anyone that was a part of her son's life. I think she sensed/knew that Ennis was the one.
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Because she loves her son unconditionally, for himslef - John Twist would love him only if he became what he wanted him to be. Spitting is the expression of his contempt for what Jack did become, and perhaps from Ennis too, who was a part of that.
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A number of us here do agree that the act of spitting in this scene signified contempt.
How about other scenes. I am haunted by the scene that shows Jack spitting and Ennis looking on as they bring the flock down the Mountain...
This may not be a simple of anything, but I can't help being haunted by this action done in the midst of human silence. For me, it was as if there was a bad taste in Jack's mouth at that moment. Ennis had such a strange, almost guilty look.
I guess the spitting in that scene could be best interprested as part of the uneasy silence that bore heavily on them. I'm sure both wanted to speak, but were overcome with so much emotion.
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Ennis's punch caught Jack totally off guard and it looked really really painful to Jack. Maybe he was still in shock over it. His act of spitting in this scene maybe becuse of a cut inside the mouth or just from pure adrenaline flowing through him, in which causes the mouth to "water" more .Ennis did feel guilty and remembered that punch even four years later thinking of it as partially responsible for Jack's long absence.
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Ennis's punch caught Jack totally off guard and it looked really really painful to Jack. Maybe he was still in shock over it. His act of spitting in this scene maybe becuse of a cut inside the mouth or just from pure adrenaline flowing through him, in which causes the mouth to "water" more .Ennis did feel guilty and remembered that punch even four years later thinking of it as partially responsible for Jack's long absence.
Very good point. The bruise looked like a serious one. And yes, I agree that Ennis was perhaps feeling guilty about the whole thing.
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I had wondered if the fist pounding also suggested the action of masturbation -- something that was implied in the short story. To have shown Jack stimulating himself would have been too much for some people.
On this *o) note I would like to bring up something that I noticed last night.
Just before Jack calls Ennis into the tent during FNIT, he is lying down with his hands out of view. Judging from the angle of which his left arm is at, the most likely place where his hand is, would be in between his legs. If you watch closley he appears to be jerking his . . . . O.K. I spare you that visual, but he is definately doing something underneath the sheets.
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I had wondered if the fist pounding also suggested the action of masturbation -- something that was implied in the short story. To have shown Jack stimulating himself would have been too much for some people.
On this *o) note I would like to bring up something that I noticed last night.
Just before Jack calls Ennis into the tent during FNIT, he is lying down with his hands out of view. Judging from the angle of which his left arm is at, the most likely place where his hand is, would be in between his legs. If you watch closley he appears to be jerking his . . . . O.K. I spare you that visual, but he is definately doing something underneath the sheets.
Well, I'll definitely be watching FNIT later on. Interesting obversation, indeed. :s)
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I have loved reading the discussion of the last page regarding Jack's father and his spitting into the cup, and the entire thing of the dynamics between Jack and his father, and now the father's interaction with Ennis. Patrior1's interesting argument notwithstanding, I also can find nothing but despicableness in this man...unless, perhaps, he is just a nasty old man, and his wanting Jack's ashes there really is a true wish of his, but he hasn't a clue how to be honest about something like that, has never h ad a clue how to express anything "soft" in the slightest.
All of your arguments and propositions are most interesting and I cannot add anything at the moment, except to say that at the very least, his spitting like that, at the table, with "company" is just plain uncouth.
(OT also, but I'd loved to have rescued Mrs. Twist -- whisked her away from him and take her into town and show her a good time. And I'd make her lounge on the couch with her feet up and serve her bon bons or something indulgent. Take her shopping for clothes, get our hair done together. Just hire somebody to work the ranch with the old man until he goes...)
kathy
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This is so sweet and thoughtful. Yeah, she deserved so much better than this. Being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with this man would have driven me to do something rash. Sitting across the dinner table with a spit cup is not my idea of a fun marriage. Maybe running Jack off may have been the best idea he ever had. Jack never stopped trying to better himself as a person and had a concience. Never stopped trying. I think this is what Jake G stated is what he felt most about this character.I see what he means. With Ennis by his side he could have surpassed his father's ideas of a good life many times over. He would have made sure that his mother was happy and safe.
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I had wondered if the fist pounding also suggested the action of masturbation -- something that was implied in the short story. To have shown Jack stimulating himself would have been too much for some people.
On this *o) note I would like to bring up something that I noticed last night.
Just before Jack calls Ennis into the tent during FNIT, he is lying down with his hands out of view. Judging from the angle of which his left arm is at, the most likely place where his hand is, would be in between his legs. If you watch closley he appears to be jerking his . . . . O.K. I spare you that visual, but he is definately doing something underneath the sheets.
OOT: but was Jack doing this during the act itself?
Greenfrog, the subject of autoeroticism in the FNIT is a topic all to itself. Would you want to start a separate thread on this? The subject matter must be delicately handled, to be sure.
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I have loved reading the discussion of the last page regarding Jack's father and his spitting into the cup, and the entire thing of the dynamics between Jack and his father, and now the father's interaction with Ennis. Patrior1's interesting argument notwithstanding, I also can find nothing but despicableness in this man...unless, perhaps, he is just a nasty old man, and his wanting Jack's ashes there really is a true wish of his, but he hasn't a clue how to be honest about something like that, has never h ad a clue how to express anything "soft" in the slightest.
All of your arguments and propositions are most interesting and I cannot add anything at the moment, except to say that at the very least, his spitting like that, at the table, with "company" is just plain uncouth.
(OT also, but I'd loved to have rescued Mrs. Twist -- whisked her away from him and take her into town and show her a good time. And I'd make her lounge on the couch with her feet up and serve her bon bons or something indulgent. Take her shopping for clothes, get our hair done together. Just hire somebody to work the ranch with the old man until he goes...)
kathy
Thanks kathy for sharing your opinion on this subject.
With the frequency of spitting in the film, I have wondered if such a parctice was not, in fact, more acceptable than we think. We are, of course, conditioned to think otherwise regarding this practice, but perhaps it was more acceptable socially than we think...
Still, I did notice that when John Twist spat on the cup, there was a look of distaste in his eyes.
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This is so sweet and thoughtful. Yeah, she deserved so much better than this. Being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with this man would have driven me to do something rash. Sitting across the dinner table with a spit cup is not my idea of a fun marriage. Maybe running Jack off may have been the best idea he ever had. Jack never stopped trying to better himself as a person and had a concience. Never stopped trying. I think this is what Jake G stated is what he felt most about this character.I see what he means. With Ennis by his side he could have surpassed his father's ideas of a good life many times over. He would have made sure that his mother was happy and safe.
Ot is interesting me that we are now looking into the spitting with reference to Jack's mother, as opposed to Ennis. It is, of course, a valid thing to consider.
It is interesting also to note that in the short story, the only reference to spit is in the FNIT. Nonetheless, showing John Twist spitting did seem to be in keeping with the tone of the short story, particularly, the interaction of the 3 characters:
The old man sat silent, his hands folded on the plastic tablecloth, staring at Ennis with an angry, knowing expression. Ennis recognized in him a not uncommon type with the hard need to be the stud duck in the pond. He couldnt see much of Jack in either one of them, took a breath.
I feel awful bad about Jack. Cant begin to say how bad I feel. I knew him a long time. I come by to tell you that if you want me to take his ashes up there on Brokeback like his wife says he wanted Id be proud to.
There was a silence. Ennis cleared his throat but said nothing more.
The old man said, Tell you what, I know where Brokeback Mountain is. He thought he was too goddam special to be buried in the family plot.
Jacks mother ignored this, said, He used a come home every year, even after he was married and down in Texas, and help his daddy on the ranch for a week, fix the gates and mow and all. I kept his room like it was when he was a boy and I think he appreciated that. You are welcome to go up in his room if you want.
Proulx -- Brokeback Mountain (1997) Boldfacing mine.
Of particular interest to me is the phrase "angry, knowing expression." This is precisely the look we see in John Twist's face when he spits into the cup.
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Yep, It was angry. and it was knowing too. And Ennis remained humble and true through all of this. I don't think Jack thought he was too "Godamn special " to be buried in the family plot. Sr. was wrong. Jack wanted his ashes spread on BBM because its where he was most happy. He returned home yearly to help the old man out with the chores. This shows what kind of man Jack really was. He could've easily written him off. But he did'nt. Through all the crap and put-downs, Jack still showed respect for him.
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Had John Twist been oblivious to the significance of Brokeback Mountain, I would have said that perhaps his anger and the act of spitting can be taken to signify his disappointment in relation to his son's improbably dreaming.
But I suspect that John Twist knew the significance of the Mountain in Jack's life. This makes me view his anger and the act of spitting in relation to this knowledge. Hence, I looked at the action as an expression of contempt.
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Ennis spitting after Jack telling him about Mexico, IMO is another example of contempt ,on Ennis's part for the thought of Jack 's adventures down there. He was totally pissed off. He also spit after the "punch before coming down off the mountain. By the way I don't know if it's a thread or not but will some one please explain the punch. :s) I see no excuse yet for it. In the SS it says something about Ennis getting in the first punch before his brother got him? Maybe he was pissed about "loosing "the fight/wrestling bout. Jack was'nt too bad holding his own against Ennis, or maybe he was pissed at Aguirre for bringing them down so soon. But that was'nt Jack's fault.WTF? ??? %( :-\\
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I checked the listing of topics and didn't see one dedicated to just the punch-though I'm sure it has been discussed within other threads. This one touches on it a little bit: Wrestling scenes
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1049.msg25375#msg25375
IMO Ennis doesn't know how to express himself and when they were wrestling it looked like he was almost choking Jack. I don't think any of that was malicious on Ennis's part- he had so many emotions bubbling inside of him and that was how they manifested themselves.
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I hadn't noticed that in the SNIT scene. Looks like I have another reason to pull out the dvd! :P
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On this *o) note I would like to bring up something that I noticed last night.
Just before Jack calls Ennis into the tent during FNIT, he is lying down with his hands out of view. Judging from the angle of which his left arm is at, the most likely place where his hand is, would be in between his legs. If you watch closley he appears to be jerking his . . . . O.K. I spare you that visual, but he is definately doing something underneath the sheets.
OOT: but was Jack doing this during the act itself?
Greenfrog, the subject of autoeroticism in the FNIT is a topic all to itself. Would you want to start a separate thread on this? The subject matter must be delicately handled, to be sure.
Delicately handled becuse of minors here? I assume that's the reason, because we certainly could discuss openly otherwise, yes?
kathy
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Thanks kathy for sharing your opinion on this subject.
With the frequency of spitting in the film, I have wondered if such a parctice was not, in fact, more acceptable than we think. We are, of course, conditioned to think otherwise regarding this practice, but perhaps it was more acceptable socially than we think...
Still, I did notice that when John Twist spat on the cup, there was a look of distaste in his eyes.
Yes, you're right, about spitting being more socially acceptable in the past, at least in the world we were being shown. I should know this very well, as I have presented this argument about their smoking. But the timing of his doing this, what he said, and his face, as you said, Thomas -- I would say it was shown to us this way by the brilliant filmmakers for us to indeed get this perception of Mr. Twist having a distasteful attitude toward Jack, and also Ennis.
kathy
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I checked the listing of topics and didn't see one dedicated to just the punch-though I'm sure it has been discussed within other threads. This one touches on it a little bit: Wrestling scenes
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1049.msg25375#msg25375
IMO Ennis doesn't know how to express himself and when they were wrestling it looked like he was almost choking Jack. I don't think any of that was malicious on Ennis's part- he had so many emotions bubbling inside of him and that was how they manifested themselves.
LJN, I also recall discussing the wrestling/fight on the hillside at length. There's not a Leaving Early thread? But you said it perfectly in 25 words or less, how the wrestling turned into fighting for real, out of Ennis's frustrations.
kathy
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Great two cents, aintfoolin. This is a lovely encapsulation of those moments in the tent, and how they were presented to us, and how they represented the characters for us to know them.
I can't swear to this -- may be a faulty memory -- but I'm pretty sure my "OMG" in that scene (shocked but not offended, as you said) consisted of putting my hand over my mouth, or however you describe that. You know, the indrawn breath and the hand over the mouth or else I might have said OMG and other stuff out loud, like JCAlmighty oh boy god help me, etc.
kathy
Being 100% honest, when Ennis spit on his hand and lubed himself up I smiled. My OMG moment was Jack pounding the ground with his fist.
Oh and here's one of two pictures..
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb51%2Fneverlet_itgo%2Fbbm%2Fennis%2FPDVD_002.jpg&hash=0ad0fd4adfbcf87ddc66dea47fbbb891965e64fa)
Best I could do.
Jack pounding HIS fist on the ground? Or Jack pounding Ennis' fist on the ground? This was brought up in another thread & in the DVD - if you lighten it - it does appear that Jack grabs Ennis' right hand and pounds it on the ground. Now that's hot! :d) Where Ennis' hand had been before that - I'll need to do further research. Thoughts?
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Well, what I see is Ennis's arm on the inside with Jack holding it firmly at the wrist. I cannot see what's going on during the pounding, but my common sense tells me that Jack was pounding the ground with Ennis's fist as he used the other to hold himself up. Wether that hand had ....ahem... other uses? don't know ,can't tell Yes much more careful research is needed. What a chore.
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Ennis spitting after Jack telling him about Mexico, IMO is another example of contempt ,on Ennis's part for the thought of Jack 's adventures down there. He was totally pissed off. He also spit after the "punch before coming down off the mountain. By the way I don't know if it's a thread or not but will some one please explain the punch. :s) I see no excuse yet for it. In the SS it says something about Ennis getting in the first punch before his brother got him? Maybe he was pissed about "loosing "the fight/wrestling bout. Jack was'nt too bad holding his own against Ennis, or maybe he was pissed at Aguirre for bringing them down so soon. But that was'nt Jack's fault.WTF? ??? %( :-\\
I think Ennis was just totally confused by the strength of his emotions.
I don't recall a separate thread about the significance of the punch. Would you like to start a new thread on this? Do make a cursory check in the index of topics, to be sure, but I cannot recall a topic devoted specifically to this detail.
As for the spitting, I had assumed that he weas probably trying to spit out blood -- or the taste of it, perhaps. But I like your suggestion that it may have been a gesture of contempt.
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I checked the listing of topics and didn't see one dedicated to just the punch-though I'm sure it has been discussed within other threads. This one touches on it a little bit: Wrestling scenes
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1049.msg25375#msg25375
OK.
IMO Ennis doesn't know how to express himself and when they were wrestling it looked like he was almost choking Jack. I don't think any of that was malicious on Ennis's part- he had so many emotions bubbling inside of him and that was how they manifested themselves.
I think I mentioned somewhere that Ennis was anry with himself for allowing himself to fall in love with Jack. Jack was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and some of Ennis's inner rage got pushed out to him, so to speak.
The spitting after could have been a gesture of satisfaction, no? As if some of his anger was assuaged...
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Delicately handled becuse of minors here? I assume that's the reason, because we certainly could discuss openly otherwise, yes?
kathy
Yes. :) However, I do think we can discuss a great deal without being too prudish about it.
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Yes, you're right, about spitting being more socially acceptable in the past, at least in the world we were being shown. I should know this very well, as I have presented this argument about their smoking. But the timing of his doing this, what he said, and his face, as you said, Thomas -- I would say it was shown to us this way by the brilliant filmmakers for us to indeed get this perception of Mr. Twist having a distasteful attitude toward Jack, and also Ennis.
kathy
I did look upon John Twist's act of spitting as an expression fo distaste for Jack's plans. To spit before company may be considered rude in some circles, but I am sure it was more acceptable in this case. Still, it was John Twist's look that convinced me that there was more to be read in his action.
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Jack pounding HIS fist on the ground? Or Jack pounding Ennis' fist on the ground? This was brought up in another thread & in the DVD - if you lighten it - it does appear that Jack grabs Ennis' right hand and pounds it on the ground. Now that's hot! :d) Where Ennis' hand had been before that - I'll need to do further research. Thoughts?
Interesting. Can someone confirm this?
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Still, it was John Twist's look that convinced me that there was more to be read in his action.
It was the look and the tone of his voice.
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Well, what I see is Ennis's arm on the inside with Jack holding it firmly at the wrist. I cannot see what's going on during the pounding, but my common sense tells me that Jack was pounding the ground with Ennis's fist as he used the other to hold himself up. Wether that hand had ....ahem... other uses? don't know ,can't tell Yes much more careful research is needed. What a chore.
In any event, I do suspect that the fist-pounding suggested the act of masturbation.
Was it the hand that was lubricated with spittle? It was Ennis's left hand, no?
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It was the look and the tone of his voice.
Especially the look, no? His eyes before and after he spat into the cup: to me, they expressed anger as well as contempt.
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Especially the look, no? His eyes before and after he spat into the cup: to me, they expressed anger as well as contempt.
Oh yes, very much so.
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Interesting. Can someone confirm this?
I'll take a look and get some caps in a little bit.
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I'll take a look and get some caps in a little bit.
Thanks, carbyville . :)
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In any event, I do suspect that the fist-pounding suggested the act of masturbation.
Was it the hand that was lubricated with spittle? It was Ennis's left hand, no?
No. Ennis spit in his right hand.
IMO - Jack grabbed Ennis' right hand/fist (the one he spit in) with his own right hand. It's hard to see because it's at the very left bottom corner of the screen & it's dark. I hadn't noticed it until someone mentioned it in another thread. I lightened my TV & there it was. Zero in on the color of the clothing - Jack appears to grab something in a tan color - Ennis' jacket.
How's YOUR research comin', Ain'tfoolin'?
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After more careful research ,It's still inconclusive as to what actually transpired, Ennis's right hand is missing at crucial points so more defined study is needed. ( My computer screen's brightness is not enough with the DVD, it's still too dark to tell) but I don't have access to my big screen TV at this time so I will continue research later. I must say though that I've never had this much fun doing so much...ahem.. research! How bout you?
We need a picture, Any one?
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After more careful research ,It's still inconclusive as to what actually transpired, Ennis's right hand is missing at crucial points so more defined study is needed. ( My computer screen's brightness is not enough with the DVD, it's still too dark to tell) but I don't have access to my big screen TV at this time so I will continue research later. I must say though that I've never had this much fun doing so much...ahem.. research! How bout you?
We need a picture, Any one?
Once I put my daughter down for her nap I will take a look. I intended to do this yesterday, but I ended up working longer than I had originally planned. I'll get some pictures.
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Do you mean this scene?
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg519.imageshack.us%2Fimg519%2F2624%2Fbscap0285al4.jpg&hash=c0b40dc4953560d2bfe272a4dd19481f0a1a1966)
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Wonderful. Thanks, everyone. And Twisted's screencap confirms that Ennis used his right hand. :)
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Before I left for work today I played a couple of scenes from the dvd, particularly the SNIT scene. After nearly 40 viewings I finally noticed the spittle trail from their first kiss. It made me appreciate the tenderness and authenticity of this scene even more.
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Before I left for work today I played a couple of scenes from the dvd, particularly the SNIT scene. After nearly 40 viewings I finally noticed the spittle trail from their first kiss. It made me appreciate the tenderness and authenticity of this scene even more.
It never gets old, CSC. IMO, this should have won the MTV Movie Awards Best Kiss, even though the Reunion Kiss can't be said to be any less wonderful. Even though the SNIT kiss is less dramatic, the spittle adds to the tenderness and veracity.
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It never gets old, CSC. IMO, this should have won the MTV Movie Awards Best Kiss, even though the Reunion Kiss can't be said to be any less wonderful. Even though the SNIT kiss is less dramatic, the spittle adds to the tenderness and veracity.
I agree! I replayed the scene a couple of times. I think a third time would have brought a few tears to my eyes. Who ever thought a trail of spit could enhance my appreciation for a film scene?
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I never thought so either.
I have heard about some people finding this detail "disgusting". Had they never kissed a lover?
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Ye who is without spit may cast the first complaint. Their only real problem was that the kiss was between two men. The spit trail just didn't help them. ;)
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Their only real problem was that the kiss was between two men. The spit trail just didn't help them. ;)
I admire the actors for their dedication to veracity. Naturally, I would not be particular if I took the place of either of them.
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Same here! O0
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Ye who is without spit may cast the first complaint. Their only real problem was that the kiss was between two men. The spit trail just didn't help them. ;)
I am so pleased to have this this spit trail now, it looks so tender, it just adds to the beauty of the scene. I wish people could just see two people and get over what sex they are.
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I agree! I replayed the scene a couple of times. I think a third time would have brought a few tears to my eyes. Who ever thought a trail of spit could enhance my appreciation for a film scene?
Every little new sound or whatever enhances this movie even more for me. :)
I don't see how anyone could find it disgusting- but that's just me. It is a beautiful, tender, romantic moment- nothing disgusting about it.
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Every little new sound or whatever enhances this movie even more for me. :)
I don't see how anyone could find it disgusting- but that's just me. It is a beautiful, tender, romantic moment- nothing disgusting about it.
So, so true. It takes my breath away even now. Such intensity and passion. <^(
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So, so true. It takes my breath away even now. Such intensity and passion. <^(
Beautifully said <^(
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F9555%2Fbscap0053ad2.jpg&hash=8a1350681cebd512c54c1225d80dbcf4f2abfb87)
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That put a smile on my face. Such a tender scene.
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Thanks again, Twisted, for the wonderful pictures, which speak for themselves.
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I am so pleased to have this this spit trail now, it looks so tender, it just adds to the beauty of the scene. I wish people could just see two people and get over what sex they are.
A kiss is a kiss, no? But unfortunately, many people do get revolted when seeing such an intimate kiss shared between 2 people of the same sex. I am quite sure that for these people, the exchange of saliva is quite a disgusting detail, purely on account of this distinction.
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No matter who the kiss is between, I doubt that a kiss has ever been analysed this closely before, right down to viewing the trail of spittle. ;D
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We are all suckers for a good wet kiss. :)
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We are all suckers for a good wet kiss. :)
And the nice SMACK their lips make after they break apart. Amazing.
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This is probably OT, but I used to know someone who referred to sex as "exchanging bodily fluids", though not in any specific/ exclusive sense - I guess he'd have included spit, since it's just as personal and intimate as the others.
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This is probably OT, but I used to know someone who referred to sex as "exchanging bodily fluids", though not in any specific/ exclusive sense - I guess he'd have included spit, since it's just as personal and intimate as the others.
Most especially spit....
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And the nice SMACK their lips make after they break apart. Amazing.
We are a detail-oriented bunch here. I noticed it too!
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And the nice SMACK their lips make after they break apart. Amazing.
Yes, I love the sound of that kiss - and the last one in the SNIT - the heavy breathing & passion - makes them even better to watch.
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Yes, I love the sound of that kiss - and the last one in the SNIT - the heavy breathing & passion - makes them even better to watch.
I will replay this scene again and again this weekend.
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I will replay this scene again and again this weekend.
Yeah, CSC, I think I need to go watch it again tonight. I have watched this movie at least 3 times a week - sometimes twice a night. My first viewing was in November on HBO, & I've lost count how many times I've seen it - at least 30.
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Think about it , where would we be without spit during lovemaking? Almost nowhere .High and dry. Not good. Sexual arousal brings about many bodily fluids. Spit, sweat, and well...you know This kiss sure wet my..ahem...whistle. ;) ;D <^(
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Jack pounding HIS fist on the ground? Or Jack pounding Ennis' fist on the ground? This was brought up in another thread & in the DVD - if you lighten it - it does appear that Jack grabs Ennis' right hand and pounds it on the ground. Now that's hot! :d) Where Ennis' hand had been before that - I'll need to do further research. Thoughts?
I thought, but am not at all certain about this, that first Jack was pounding his right hand on the ground, and then grabbed Ennis's hand. I'll have to research, too. What a research team we are!
kathy
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I agree! I replayed the scene a couple of times. I think a third time would have brought a few tears to my eyes. Who ever thought a trail of spit could enhance my appreciation for a film scene?
Me. ;)
Shelley and I, in rationalizing yet another viewing at the theater before BBM closed, would always mention the ten-foot string of saliva in that kiss. Can't get that on the DVD at home.
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Ye who is without spit may cast the first complaint. Their only real problem was that the kiss was between two men. The spit trail just didn't help them. ;)
They'd complain about sweet, wet kiss, but not about Ennis spitting in his hand to do Jack?
kathy
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They'd complain about sweet, wet kiss, but not about Ennis spitting in his hand to do Jack?
kathy
they probably didn't reallize what he was doing - huh? ;D
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Think about it , where would we be without spit during lovemaking? Almost nowhere .High and dry. Not good. Sexual arousal brings about many bodily fluids. Spit, sweat, and well...you know This kiss sure wet my..ahem...whistle. ;) ;D <^(
Someone said on one thread that it was obvious that none of the kisses were real - that their lips never touched. What?! I didn't respond because I was speechless. ^*() ^^)
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What film were they watching? surely not BBM. I'm sure they were acting (well.... not absolutly, positively sure), but I could'nt really tell. It looked so so real. :d) If they were, they deserved the Oscar for this kiss alone.
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They'd complain about sweet, wet kiss, but not about Ennis spitting in his hand to do Jack?
they probably didn't reallize what he was doing - huh? ;D
That would most likely be the case. ???
Someone said on one thread that it was obvious that none of the kisses were real - that their lips never touched. What?! I didn't respond because I was speechless. ^*() ^^)
I bet you were speechless, I don't think you could create that spittle trail without it being real, I suppose they hadn't looked as closely as we are doing, to realise the reality.
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Someone said on one thread that it was obvious that none of the kisses were real - that their lips never touched. What?! I didn't respond because I was speechless. ^*() ^^)
That's insane. We've all seen those fake kisses on the screen...and these were not fake. Jeez. Those people just don't want to think Heath and/or Jake would really do that. Like: "Okay, they'll play gay cowboys, in service to their art (and as a service to society, i.e., "see, homosexuality comes to no good end"), but they'll draw the line at doing such distasteful homosexual things!" Kind of like some church people say they love homosexuals, but not what they do.
kathy
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What film were they watching? surely not BBM. I'm sure they were acting (well.... not absolutly, positively sure), but I could'nt really tell. It looked so so real. :d) If they were, they deserved the Oscar for this kiss alone.
;D
kathy
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What film were they watching? surely not BBM. I'm sure they were acting (well.... not absolutly, positively sure), but I could'nt really tell. It looked so so real. :d) If they were, they deserved the Oscar for this kiss alone.
Just watched an interview over and over which reaired on Friday with Heath.
Interviewer: What's it like going into a scene kissing a man in front a crowded room.
Heath: It's always uncomfortable wether kissing a man or woman in a scene . Once the mystery was over,
it was ok, whatever, lets get on and shoot it.
I am sure that pretty much sums it up that it was for real, imo.
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It was real. It was intense. It was magical kiss. The kiss was perfect. They weren't faking it. They were really into it. IMO
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OT, ksxxs, but what they (churchgoers) mean is that one is supposed to hate the sin but love the sinner - you could therefore hate rape,eg, but love the individual who was the rapist. I see what they mean, just can't see how you'd separate the two.
Back on topic - the fact that spit comes from both partners is a sort of symbolic joining, mingling, whatever, so that you can;t tell where one ends and the other begins.
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Beautifully said <^(
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F9555%2Fbscap0053ad2.jpg&hash=8a1350681cebd512c54c1225d80dbcf4f2abfb87)
I have watched my DVD hundreds of times & just noticed this yesterday! I had to rewind & watch several times to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me. I'm usually focused on Jake's lips & hands & had never noticed this before! Amazing what that you can keep finding new things after hundreds of viewings!
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It was real. It was intense. It was magical kiss. The kiss was perfect. They weren't faking it. They were really into it. IMO
Ummm. They looked into it to me & that's how I'm going to continue to think of it/ all of the kisses - what about the ones when they were lying down in the SNIT? :P :-* If I can find that post again (doubtful), I will post it here. It WAS totally insane.
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Ummm. They looked into it to me & that's how I'm going to continue to think of it/ all of the kisses - what about the ones when they were lying down in the SNIT? :P :-* If I can find that post again (doubtful), I will post it hear. It WAS totally insane.
Yes, that kiss was also very intense.. Ennis surrendered to Jack.. And Jack took him in his heart, well he already was in Jack's heart.. but you know what I mean.. maybe :) :)
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg19.imageshack.us%2Fimg19%2F6900%2Fbscap0130jp1.jpg&hash=7b4c9b65f0a8565948c5a579ce045f3b705736ce)
<^( <^(
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Yep, very intense... <^(
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I love those last two, how they linger there for a little while with their mouths open. Ugh! <^( <^( <^(
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WOWLove those pics, yes they were really into it. ;D
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(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F9056%2Fbscap0126mz4.jpg&hash=afc9e062b8d89f4d22ce852c3068b4bac19f8dc8)
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Yep, very intense... <^(
Thanks, Twisted! These are great!
For me, the 5th pic from the top is the most intense - that's where you can hear Jack's breathiness as he goes in for the kiss. So hot! And he, Jack? Jake? is so into it. Is that great acting?... Or what? Hummm :-\\
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Ummm. They looked into it to me & that's how I'm going to continue to think of it/ all of the kisses - what about the ones when they were lying down in the SNIT? :P :-* If I can find that post again (doubtful), I will post it here. It WAS totally insane.
I love the way at first Ennis "surrenders," lying down with his arms out to the side, letting Jack take the lead. But he doesn't just lie there. It's so incredibly beautiful how he lifts his head to meet Jack's kiss... Gorgeous.
kathy
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[img width-300]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3324/bscap0147xm9.jpg[/img]
Yep, very intense... <^(
Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but I swear to god I feel like I never saw the last two frames, when their mouths part. Whew. My vision of this kiss is that it cuts off shortly after they are kissing.
kathy
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Ennis/Heath has his eyes closed, Jack/Jake his eyes open, at first.
kathy
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Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but I swear to god I feel like I never saw the last two frames, when their mouths part. Whew. My vision of this kiss is that it cuts off shortly after they are kissing.
kathy
I thought the same thing. I think it's because the scene is too short for us. Even now when I watch the movie, I expect it to end sooner than it does & catch myself having to replay that scene, for research purposes, you understand, so I can catch the end of that kiss. <^(
Can never get too much of that scene. Analyze, analyze, analyze
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This picture is so sensual <^( <^( <^(
Jack is going in for the kill and Ennis is on the verge of completely giving himself to Jack (and he also looks rather horny).
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Someone said on one thread that it was obvious that none of the kisses were real - that their lips never touched. What?! I didn't respond because I was speechless. ^*() ^^)
This is quite strange. Just my opinion...
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Friends, even though we are always robbed of tongue and breath at the sight of those pix showing them kiss, let us struggle to go back to the original (though related) topic of spittle.
At least we should comment that it does look like a VERY WET kiss.
:)
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After viewing this scene at least a dozen times in slow motion, I have to agree with you that this was indeed not just a very wet kiss, but a very intimate sharing of body fluids. Not that it hadn't happened earlier in the movie... ;)
Friends, even though we are always robbed of tongue and breath at the sight of those pix showing them kiss, let us struggle to go back to the original (though related) topic of spittle.
At least we should comment that it does look like a VERY WET kiss.
:)
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After viewing this scene at least a dozen times in slow motion, I have to agree with you that this was indeed not just a very wet kiss, but a very intimate sharing of body fluids. Not that it hadn't happened earlier in the movie... ;)
True, but the first time was a slightly different exchange! ;)
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At one point Ennis seems to be thinking " bring it on Jack." I think Jack was letting Ennis sort of get a feel , a taste of the freedom he himself felt. It's the sexiest thing I ever saw. Ennis saying "teach me", "show me".
One look at the pictures above and the story is told.This scene imo clinched it for Ennis, I beleive this is where he sealed his fate. Everything following this experience and realization that he loved Jack affected the rest of his life's direction.It was more than just sex for both of them . The playful *wrestling *the next morning spoke to the comfort zone they were in. Must've been good ...to bad we were'nt privy to all of it. But I guess our imaginations take care of that little tease! ssiigghh.... :cr) <^( <^(My thoughts.
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I can't say whether I see spittle or not during the second portion of SNIT, but these shots leave me breathless...especially the first pic where Jack has his hand on Ennis's face. I'm not sure I even noticed that before.
Sorry I digressed...I couldn't help it!
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At one point Ennis seems to be thinking " bring it on Jack." I think Jack was letting Ennis sort of get a feel , a taste of the freedom he himself felt. It's the sexiest thing I ever saw. Ennis saying "teach me", "show me".
One look at the pictures above and the story is told.This scene imo clinched it for Ennis, I beleive this is where he sealed his fate. Everything following this experience and realization that he loved Jack affected the rest of his life's direction.It was more than just sex for both of them . The playful *wrestling *the next morning spoke to the comfort zone they were in. Must've been good ...to bad we were'nt privy to all of it. But I guess our imaginations take care of that little tease! ssiigghh.... :cr) <^( <^(My thoughts.
I agree. That scene showed true intimacy. And we can read it in more than one level. The detail about spittle is one detail that enforces the feeling of true intimacy.
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I can't say whether I see spittle or not during the second portion of SNIT, but these shots leave me breathless...especially the first pic where Jack has his hand on Ennis's face. I'm not sure I even noticed that before.
Sorry I digressed...I couldn't help it!
Not a total digression, CSC! :)
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CSC, you gotta see this. There is definitly spittle and it gives this scene a realism never before seen in mainsteam enertainment. The more I watch it the more appreciation I have for these two daring young actors who put so much passion into this breathtaking scene, Jakey G. and Heathy L. :cr) :c)
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CSC, you gotta see this. There is definitly spittle and it gives this scene a realism never before seen in mainsteam enertainment. The more I watch it the more appreciation I have for these two daring young actors who put so much passion into this breathtaking scene, Jakey G. and Heathy L. :cr) :c)
Yep there sure is. <^(
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Ok, i don't know if this is inappropriate to ask, but did the guys "french kiss" in SNIT? I can't tell.
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I kind of think they might not have really wanted to, and I wouldn't give them sh*t about that...but it does look like it to me, though I can't prove it, when Jack is on top of Ennis in SNIT, that kiss. Hard to tell, but they did it good enough that we can think that if we want I guess...
kathy
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I kind of think they might not have really wanted to, and I wouldn't give them sh*t about that...but it does look like it to me, though I can't prove it, when Jack is on top of Ennis in SNIT, that kiss. Hard to tell, but they did it good enough that we can think that if we want I guess...
kathy
It certainly had the appearance of it. But even without any tongues involved, it was breathtaking enough to be one of the (in not THE) greatest cinematic kisses of all time.
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CSC, you gotta see this. There is definitly spittle and it gives this scene a realism never before seen in mainsteam enertainment. The more I watch it the more appreciation I have for these two daring young actors who put so much passion into this breathtaking scene, Jakey G. and Heathy L. :cr) :c)
I will have to take a much closer look!!
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It certainly had the appearance of it. But even without any tongues involved, it was breathtaking enough to be one of the (in not THE) greatest cinematic kisses of all time.
Amen to that. :)
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I don't think any tongues were involve but it was a real kiss indeed. The spit string definately made the kiss hotter and more intimate. It's funny that when I see someone spits, it's kind of gross me out :P, but it's so hot to see spit between two goodlooking guys. :d)
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I don't think any tongues were involve but it was a real kiss indeed. The spit string definately made the kiss hotter and more intimate. It's funny that when I see someone spits, it's kind of gross me out :P, but it's so hot to see spit between two goodlooking guys. :d)
Mmm, I'm with you.
Spit outside of the mutual equation is, to me, discarded for a reason.
But when it's produced by the engaging of 2 men like this, it's almost as if it's the lubricant that insures smooth transitioning between primal and sensual; it's naive lust perhaps bridging its way to its inevitable santuaries of love -
Forever each other.
I may have become sidetracked... hmm :s)
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Mmm, I'm with you.
Spit outside of the mutual equation is, to me, discarded for a reason.
But when it's produced by the engaging of 2 men like this, it's almost as if it's the lubricant that insures smooth transitioning between primal and sensual; it's naive lust perhaps bridging its way to its inevitable santuaries of love -
Forever each other.
I may have become sidetracked... hmm :s)
Nope, I think you're right on course! ^-^
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Mmm, I'm with you.
Spit outside of the mutual equation is, to me, discarded for a reason.
But when it's produced by the engaging of 2 men like this, it's almost as if it's the lubricant that insures smooth transitioning between primal and sensual; it's naive lust perhaps bridging its way to its inevitable santuaries of love -
Forever each other.
I may have become sidetracked... hmm :s)
A good way of putting it, orangetruck . :)
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Okies this sorta has to do with all the "Spittle" Talk but in the Tent Scene or SNIT in tent who says "Im Sorry" cause I was watching it yesterday with my Headphones on and they pick up all kinds of extra noises but I can't tell for sure if it was Jack or Ennis.
Im pretty sure Ennis/Heath's Mouth doesn't move but Jack's I hear say "It's Alright" but "Im Sorry" was too quick and I couldn't pick up.
Anyone know for sure who says it.
The Spittle Bridge between there two mouth's so cute I know exactly where to watch for it know hee :8 O0 ;D :t)
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Welcome, daniblondi, if I haven't said so already.
There are lots of things some people do and some people don't hear in the movie. Nice you heard that "I'm sorry." I would say Ennis says that, but won't swear by that.
And yes, the spittle thread when they kiss is quite beautiful, isn't it.
Here's the link to a thread about Jack saying "f**k me" but it covers all the other things we hear or don't hear...
kathy
http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=3360.360 (http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=3360.360)
PS: the link takes you to last page, not first, sorry.
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Okies this sorta has to do with all the "Spittle" Talk but in the Tent Scene or SNIT in tent who says "Im Sorry" cause I was watching it yesterday with my Headphones on and they pick up all kinds of extra noises but I can't tell for sure if it was Jack or Ennis.
Im pretty sure Ennis/Heath's Mouth doesn't move but Jack's I hear say "It's Alright" but "Im Sorry" was too quick and I couldn't pick up.
Anyone know for sure who says it.
The Spittle Bridge between there two mouth's so cute I know exactly where to watch for it know hee :8 O0 ;D :t)
I heard that too on earphones, so I just switch to English subtitles, just to make sure I heard what I heard, it was Jack who said it after the very first kiss, it gave me a whole new view of that scene, Jack was so gentle, caring at that moment.
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Manhattangirl: That is beautiful, that Jack said it. So he said "I'm sorry" after the first kiss, then "It's alright," it's alright"?
kathy
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Jack does indeed say "Im Sorry" twice just before he and Ennis are lying side by side in the SNIT scene.
The It's Alright comes just after they have had there first kiss O0 :*( :)
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I heard that too on earphones, so I just switch to English subtitles, just to make sure I heard what I heard . . .
OT - The subtitles can be very helpful, however they are notorious for being inacurrate and/or MIA at critical moments. . . .
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I am so going to have to watch it again now, I do love seeing the spittle so any excuse to watch it again, not that I need an excuse.
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OT - The subtitles can be very helpful, however they are notorious for being inacurrate and/or MIA at critical moments. . . .
OT-You make a good point. The first copy of Brokeback subtitles even looked different from the 2-dis collector's edition. I've viewed both, so you do have to be very careful. Excellent point.