Topic: Sobering Moments

[orangetruck]

(the Hours represents this so well) I tend to believe that once something has entered one's history, it simply is delt with. It's not thrown away, it's either present or it's put into a dresser drawer so to speak; and those dresser drawers are open not always intentionally because we forget exactly where everything is tucked in. While looking for or acquiring certain emotions or memories we may uncover something significant. The love Jack'd left Ennis certainly isn't going to just vanish; this is like a ninja star in one of Ennis's drawers, so when it's found ... something happens.
Like that term "... oh my heart bleeds"... Ennis doesn't exactly have the leeway of letting it be, for Jack is a rather violent knock on the door of Ennis' heart, one that was never made to be ignored..
 I think Jr., had she been allowed to move into Ennis' place or not, is going to get good at arranging her dad's dresser in order to keep him as human (responsive to love) as she'd finally started seeing him.
Initially it won't seem it - but I reckon it's lucky for Ennis that J's star reflects more than Earl's crowbar.

[tpe]

(the Hours represents this so well) I tend to believe that once something has entered one's history, it simply is delt with. It's not thrown away, it's either present or it's put into a dresser drawer so to speak; and those dresser drawers are open not always intentionally because we forget exactly where everything is tucked in. While looking for or acquiring certain emotions or memories we may uncover something significant. The love Jack'd left Ennis certainly isn't going to just vanish; this is like a ninja star in one of Ennis's drawers, so when it's found ... something happens.
Like that term "... oh my heart bleeds"... Ennis doesn't exactly have the leeway of letting it be, for Jack is a rather violent knock on the door of Ennis' heart, one that was never made to be ignored..
 I think Jr., had she been allowed to move into Ennis' place or not, is going to get good at arranging her dad's dresser in order to keep him as human (responsive to love) as she'd finally started seeing him.
Initially it won't seem it - but I reckon it's lucky for Ennis that J's star reflects more than Earl's crowbar.

And I do believe that that Jack's love resurfaced during the exchange between Alma Jr. and Ennis at the end of the film.   It opened a drawer, so to speak, close to the core of Ennis's heart where Jack's love had always resided.  It was not just a sobering moment.  It was a moment of awakening, similar to the madeleine incident at the start of Proust's great work.  The mere mention of the phrase "He loves me" brought the reality home to Ennis -- that he was loved.  And that made all the difference.

[orangetruck]

And I do believe that that Jack's love resurfaced during the exchange between Alma Jr. and Ennis at the end of the film.   It opened a drawer, so to speak, close to the core of Ennis's heart where Jack's love had always resided.  It was not just a sobering moment.  It was a moment of awakening, similar to the madeleine incident at the start of Proust's great work.  The mere mention of the phrase "He loves me" brought the reality home to Ennis -- that he was loved.  And that made all the difference.

Yeah.
The Jr. and dad in trailer scene, to me, is poignant like the last confrontation one, the SNIT, etc. They were powerful turning points for the boys (namely lastly Ennis), however subtle or not..
Jr. answering that question was like an awakening, another powerful lesson but without Jack's coaching. It was very sobering for me to watch Ennis unable to stifle the emotions being cast out of the window of the trailer perhaps in some dire response to not just Alma Jr. but Ennis' own inexperience of losing something he felt for. He was clearly drawing straws as he spoke to Jr. from the corner of his sun lit face.
Jr. being about the same age now as Ennis had been when Jack had come into his life. Seeing his daughter in 'naive' love must hit Ennis so ironically hard and all at once. Not only does hearing Jr. answer Ennis when he asked ".. He loves you?" touch Ennis, but hearing himself finally ask this question while having never done so for himself when, as he knows now, it had been so damn applicable years back was, I believe, very spiritually stimulating. Ennis and stoic no longer share the same definition.
A little something about how he folds and smells Jr.'s sweater before putting it in his closet above (as opposed to the dead below? Nevermind that eerie idea, just thinking out loud) Jack's protected shirt:
It must have been sobering or maybe just noticable for Ennis to, say, realize he could have worked much better with having been given the lesson of Jr.'s shirt before that of Jack's.
He holds onto Alma Jr.'s shirt, having crossed over to her language of love. But he wouldn't cross that bridge with Jack and, now, putting the sweater up temporarily probably provides grousome contrast between love and its absense; fear itself made Ennis susceptible to learning the hard way.
But now I think he can feel the words come out of his soul when he insists:
If you can't fix it, you got to stand it.

[welshwitch]

It must jar Ennis when he realises that Alma Jr is the same age as he was when he met Jack but because she's doing the conventional thing she can talk about being in love, plan her wedding, speak about here intended husband, all the things Ennis was never able to do. At thispoint Ennismust be 40 but one tends to see him as nmuch older, someone whose life has become a long process of getting through the lonely years  to come.

  Incidentlally, I wonder how people of Jack's and Ennis's period would have reacted to the way things have changed? Here at least we have civil parnerships and remarks like the one in a newspaper interview with Tom Ford this morning - it's a series where people in the news are asked the same set of questions. To where was his favorite place to eat he replied, "In bed, having a Chinese takeout with " then the name of his partner. Then the interview moved on.   

[lamusica]

You bring up a real good point -- one that makes you think.  I, too, wonder what Ennis and Jack would do if they found themselves in love etoday.  Things really have not changed in Wyoming or many other places in the US, especially in the rural areas and the wildwest.  I wonder if Ennis would have been any different that he was in 1963.  I think he still would have the shame his father instilled in him.  I can't see him openly admitting he was gay and openly having a relationship with another man.  Jack, though, might have moved to a more accepting area of the country and lived his life out of the closet, so to speak.  He was more willing to take chances and push the envelope.  This is  a good discussion point, ww.  I am interested in hearing other's view on this issue.

[tpe]

Yeah.
The Jr. and dad in trailer scene, to me, is poignant like the last confrontation one, the SNIT, etc. They were powerful turning points for the boys (namely lastly Ennis), however subtle or not..
Jr. answering that question was like an awakening, another powerful lesson but without Jack's coaching. It was very sobering for me to watch Ennis unable to stifle the emotions being cast out of the window of the trailer perhaps in some dire response to not just Alma Jr. but Ennis' own inexperience of losing something he felt for. He was clearly drawing straws as he spoke to Jr. from the corner of his sun lit face.
Jr. being about the same age now as Ennis had been when Jack had come into his life. Seeing his daughter in 'naive' love must hit Ennis so ironically hard and all at once. Not only does hearing Jr. answer Ennis when he asked ".. He loves you?" touch Ennis, but hearing himself finally ask this question while having never done so for himself when, as he knows now, it had been so damn applicable years back was, I believe, very spiritually stimulating. Ennis and stoic no longer share the same definition.
A little something about how he folds and smells Jr.'s sweater before putting it in his closet above (as opposed to the dead below? Nevermind that eerie idea, just thinking out loud) Jack's protected shirt:
It must have been sobering or maybe just noticable for Ennis to, say, realize he could have worked much better with having been given the lesson of Jr.'s shirt before that of Jack's.
He holds onto Alma Jr.'s shirt, having crossed over to her language of love. But he wouldn't cross that bridge with Jack and, now, putting the sweater up temporarily probably provides grousome contrast between love and its absense; fear itself made Ennis susceptible to learning the hard way.
But now I think he can feel the words come out of his soul when he insists:
If you can't fix it, you got to stand it.

I had thought that that moment was a moment of satori[/b] for Ennis.  It came as a thunderclap, so to speak. I guess it was made possible through the love of his daughter for the husband and the father. Love has a way of bringing to light what is deeply hidden in our own hearts.

[tpe]

It must jar Ennis when he realises that Alma Jr is the same age as he was when he met Jack but because she's doing the conventional thing she can talk about being in love, plan her wedding, speak about here intended husband, all the things Ennis was never able to do. At thispoint Ennismust be 40 but one tends to see him as nmuch older, someone whose life has become a long process of getting through the lonely years  to come.

  Incidentlally, I wonder how people of Jack's and Ennis's period would have reacted to the way things have changed? Here at least we have civil parnerships and remarks like the one in a newspaper interview with Tom Ford this morning - it's a series where people in the news are asked the same set of questions. To where was his favorite place to eat he replied, "In bed, having a Chinese takeout with " then the name of his partner. Then the interview moved on.   

That is indeed interesting to note: that Ennis was at the same age when he also met the love of his life.  The poigniant detail is that back then, he was not able to express it outright.

[tpe]

You bring up a real good point -- one that makes you think.  I, too, wonder what Ennis and Jack would do if they found themselves in love etoday.  Things really have not changed in Wyoming or many other places in the US, especially in the rural areas and the wildwest.  I wonder if Ennis would have been any different that he was in 1963.  I think he still would have the shame his father instilled in him.  I can't see him openly admitting he was gay and openly having a relationship with another man.  Jack, though, might have moved to a more accepting area of the country and lived his life out of the closet, so to speak.  He was more willing to take chances and push the envelope.  This is  a good discussion point, ww.  I am interested in hearing other's view on this issue.

This may well be a separate topic, suitable for a new thread.  Suffice it to say that that are still many "Ennises" out there in this day and age.  So many people chose to remain cloaked in shadows.

 

[aintfoolin]

Another sobering moment seemed to be when Jack told Ennis that 42 sheep had been killed by lightening the previous summer Jack worked Brokeback. He must have thought " What the hell am I getting into here?" This could be very dangerous . That's ALOT of sheep! The mountain, in it's beautiful majesty held alot of dangers. Bears, snowstorms, hailstorms, lightening ,cliffs , isolation ,+ Aguirre was asking them to do something against the rules in the first place. At 19 , these were two brave young men, mature beyond their years concerning work ethic, especially when compared to today's breed of 19 year olds. MO.

[tpe]

Another sobering moment seemed to be when Jack told Ennis that 42 sheep had been killed by lightening the previous summer Jack worked Brokeback. He must have thought " What the hell am I getting into here?" This could be very dangerous . That's ALOT of sheep! The mountain, in it's beautiful majesty held alot of dangers. Bears, snowstorms, hailstorms, lightening ,cliffs , isolation ,+ Aguirre was asking them to do something against the rules in the first place. At 19 , these were two brave young men, mature beyond their years concerning work ethic, especially when compared to today's breed of 19 year olds. MO.

Somehow, Ennis's face in this scene is a mixture of incredulity and surprise.  Perhaps some concern? 

I think he did realize then that they would need to lean on each other while they were up on BBM.  And it would seem that he got the point that they would get very little sympathy from Aguirre.