Topic: Would you change the sex scenes and, if so, how...?

[orangetruck]

The act of "eating" someone during love-making certainly encompases ALL the senses.  Sight, smell, taste, and touch.  We see it all in the reunion kiss.  No need to change it, IMO.  It has everything, without having the need to be any more explicit.

I find the same rule applies for the motel scene as well. No need for change. At least not for the sake of storytelling.

I think the reunion scene was like confirmation that love had happened and never left. And the motel scene was like confirmation that sex was only part of the equation, as we see them fingering the potential to keep each other in their lives. I see both these scenes as subtle to terrific hints for Ennis to understand what it was that had gotten a hold of him. Though he does have layers to unravel and he doesn't quite unwind completely before he finally discovers the whole jigsaw hanging in Jack's closet. - or does he come to grips in the diner with Cassie's crying eyes?

No we don't need any more sexual graphics littering the story. And I think you say it perfectly when you describe the sort of subdued love making we see just before FC. On the same side of the token however, I do think different variables of the sexual and sensual acts could have been crafted into the plot to produce the same affecting movie, what especially with the cinematography and sensuality in those significant "sniffs" playing as anchors to the plot; More importantly still - no - the movie certainly wasn't sexually inept. Again, it was more along the lines of just perfect. MO 

[hippiewannabe]

I find the same rule applies for the motel scene as well. No need for change. At least not for the sake of storytelling.

I think the reunion scene was like confirmation that love had happened and never left. And the motel scene was like confirmation that sex was only part of the equation, as we see them fingering the potential to keep each other in their lives. I see both these scenes as subtle to terrific hints for Ennis to understand what it was that had gotten a hold of him. Though he does have layers to unravel and he doesn't quite unwind completely before he finally discovers the whole jigsaw hanging in Jack's closet. - or does he come to grips in the diner with Cassie's crying eyes?

No we don't need any more sexual graphics littering the story. And I think you say it perfectly when you describe the sort of subdued love making we see just before FC. On the same side of the token however, I do think different variables of the sexual and sensual acts could have been crafted into the plot to produce the same affecting movie, what especially with the cinematography and sensuality in those significant "sniffs" playing as anchors to the plot; More importantly still - no - the movie certainly wasn't sexually inept. Again, it was more along the lines of just perfect. MO 

OT, I agree with you.  I think BBM is a perfect piece of art.  I think my yearning for certain additions to the movie is just that - a yearning - maybe a sort of voyeuristic approach - I want to see more.  I've fallen in love with Ennis & Jack's love and I long to be a part of it.  I find comfort when I go to the BBM that exists in my mind and I see them exchanging little loving moments throughout their relationship.  It's funny - whenever I get the same sad and lost feeling, I can just pop in the DVD and for some reason, the sight of the BetterMost beans cans heating over the fire brings me to a happier place.  I kind of think, oh good, things can be idyllic and lovely for a while.  Sometimes I have to stop the DVD right after their reunion because I'm not prepared to go to the sadder side of things.  Ang and everyone involved did a spectacular job IMO; very high highs and subterranean lows. 

Off topic - are you the one with the big blue eyes and facial hair?  I was looking at pix last night.  Hope to meet some of these lovely Brokies in person someday! 

[orangetruck]

OT, I agree with you.  I think BBM is a perfect piece of art.  I think my yearning for certain additions to the movie is just that - a yearning - maybe a sort of voyeuristic approach - I want to see more.  I've fallen in love with Ennis & Jack's love and I long to be a part of it.  I find comfort when I go to the BBM that exists in my mind and I see them exchanging little loving moments throughout their relationship.  It's funny - whenever I get the same sad and lost feeling, I can just pop in the DVD and for some reason, the sight of the BetterMost beans cans heating over the fire brings me to a happier place.  I kind of think, oh good, things can be idyllic and lovely for a while.  Sometimes I have to stop the DVD right after their reunion because I'm not prepared to go to the sadder side of things.  Ang and everyone involved did a spectacular job IMO; very high highs and subterranean lows. 

Off topic - are you the one with the big blue eyes and facial hair?  I was looking at pix last night.  Hope to meet some of these lovely Brokies in person someday! 

Ditto, hippiew. I often can't go through with the rest of the movie neither. 

I can entirely relate with you on the BetterMost scene. I love how their feelings just sort of simmer and hover in camp during those times. It's much easier to digest than say a postcard or some shirts. Much happier. 

Yeah that's me, ole blue eyes..   

[tpe]

Well, a more voyeuristic approach can certainly add spice -- even to the scenes that are much more suggestive and subtle.  Isn't there a delightful element of frisson in the scene where Aguirre spies the two of them at "play"? 

I think there is always a delicate balance with the desire to be more explicit and the beauty that is inherent in a more subtle/suggestive approach.  I personally prefer the latter, but I am not closing the door on the former.  Had they added some new scenes or made the existing ones more explicit, I cannot honestly say that I wouldn't like them.  The proof is in the eating.

 

[hippiewannabe]

Well, a more voyeuristic approach can certainly add spice -- even to the scenes that are much more suggestive and subtle.  Isn't there a delightful element of frisson in the scene where Aguirre spies the two of them at "play"? 

I think there is always a delicate balance with the desire to be more explicit and the beauty that is inherent in a more subtle/suggestive approach.  I personally prefer the latter, but I am not closing the door on the former.  Had they added some new scenes or made the existing ones more explicit, I cannot honestly say that I wouldn't like them.  The proof is in the eating.

 

Great points you bring up, TPE!  I absolutely love the shirtless wrestling - my mind continues on even after the camera cuts away once Jack pulls Ennis' hat off and they kiss. 

You are right about how taking the more subtle approach can make for a better piece of art.  "Jaws" comes to mind; Spielberg always intended to have more shots with the fake shark, but couldn't - which in the end made for a more Hitchcockian, intense, and thrilling movie.  And we all have our imaginations, right?   

[tpe]

Great points you bring up, TPE!  I absolutely love the shirtless wrestling - my mind continues on even after the camera cuts away once Jack pulls Ennis' hat off and they kiss. 

You are right about how taking the more subtle approach can make for a better piece of art.  "Jaws" comes to mind; Spielberg always intended to have more shots with the fake shark, but couldn't - which in the end made for a more Hitchcockian, intense, and thrilling movie.  And we all have our imaginations, right?   

Thanks hippiewannabe.    I would say nonetheless that subtlety and explicitness can work side by side to make a truly great work of Art.  I would argue that BBM, subtle though it may be in most of th sex scenes, strives for this balance.  The point of view could have perhaps been more on the "raw" side, but I do think there is enough play between what is explicit and what is implied to keep us on edge -- and wanting for more.  The ultimate tease!

[orangetruck]

Great points you bring up, TPE!  I absolutely love the shirtless wrestling - my mind continues on even after the camera cuts away once Jack pulls Ennis' hat off and they kiss. 

You are right about how taking the more subtle approach can make for a better piece of art.  "Jaws" comes to mind; Spielberg always intended to have more shots with the fake shark, but couldn't - which in the end made for a more Hitchcockian, intense, and thrilling movie.  And we all have our imaginations, right?   

Wow, brilliant analogy. Great post 

Big yes on imagination, subtlety. The balance, and I know this has been said before, or the spectrum of FNIT and SNIT is brilliant. 

[BlueMountain]

OMG. I would make the first one wayyy longer! LOL

[tpe]

OMG. I would make the first one wayyy longer! LOL

Aguirre spoiled the fun much too soon...  I think this scene was masterfully done!  We initially don't realize that we see this scene through Aguirre's eyes...

[BlueMountain]

Aguirre spoiled the fun much too soon...  I think this scene was masterfully done!  We initially don't realize that we see this scene through Aguirre's eyes...

Who's Aguirre?

[atalley]

Randy Quaid...the man who hired them.

[vedrana]

Last night I watched BBm again! 

I noticed something that never have before, even it was always somewhere in my thoughts. I found it strange. (If someone had already mention it,  , but it's not easy to catch with everything here in the Forum)

Well, it is just about the intimate scenes - they are all cut, stopped, blocked in a very aggressive way.

FNIT - after the intercourse, we just see them fall down, and it's less than a second. The shoot is so big, can't have a good picture about what was going on.

SNIT - No overture in front of the fire, just Jack waiting half naked. Short kissing is suddenly interupted with their wrestling watched by Aguirre. So aggressive cut! Firstly, even the wrestling doesn't have a closure (as Hippie has already mentioned), and secondly, we get the feeling that they were caught by Aguirre the very next morning after they made love, which is not the case!

Reunion kiss also interrupted by Alma...

Well, this is the way I see it, and maybe Lee had a message with this kind of scenes, but I always wanted to see the closure of these precious moments.

Also -  the last night before the tragedy (I already mentioned it), I would've liked to see them in the tent facing each other. No sex, just a deep intimacy.

But hey, it's just me! Maybe I'm wrong ....   

[BlueMountain]

Last night I watched BBm again! 

I noticed something that never have before, even it was always somewhere in my thoughts. I found it strange. (If someone had already mention it,  , but it's not easy to catch with everything here in the Forum)

Well, it is just about the intimate scenes - they are all cut, stopped, blocked in a very aggressive way.

FNIT - after the intercourse, we just see them fall down, and it's less than a second. The shoot is so big, can't have a good picture about what was going on.

SNIT - No overture in front of the fire, just Jack waiting half naked. Short kissing is suddenly interupted with their wrestling watched by Aguirre. So aggressive cut! Firstly, even the wrestling doesn't have a closure (as Hippie has already mentioned), and secondly, we get the feeling that they were caught by Aguirre the very next morning after they made love, which is not the case!

Reunion kiss also interrupted by Alma...

Well, this is the way I see it, and maybe Lee had a message with this kind of scenes, but I always wanted to see the closure of these precious moments.

Also -  the last night before the tragedy (I already mentioned it), I would've liked to see them in the tent facing each other. No sex, just a deep intimacy.

But hey, it's just me! Maybe I'm wrong ....   

Your right! I noticed that too! =O
I agree with the whole 'facing each other' thing in the tent... It would have been good.

[vedrana]

Bluemountain,  !!

I'm glad you agree!  

[BlueMountain]

Bluemountain,  !!

I'm glad you agree!  

 

[atalley]

I guess I always think of "spooning" as the contentment shown after sex.   

[vedrana]

I guess I always think of "spooning" as the contentment shown after sex.  

What's spooning? 

[BlueMountain]

This is how I really would change the sex scenes:

Replace Ennis.... with ME!  MUhahahaha! *runs away*

[orangetruck]

This is how I really would change the sex scenes:

Replace Ennis.... with ME!  MUhahahaha! *runs away*

 

LMAO that's awesome! 

[BlueMountain]

LMAO that's awesome! 

  

[hippiewannabe]

This is how I really would change the sex scenes:

Replace Ennis.... with ME!  MUhahahaha! *runs away*

Get in line, BlueMountain!!!!     You are too funny! 

[BlueMountain]

Get in line, BlueMountain!!!!     You are too funny! 

  LOL I'm sure the line is huge!

[Matt Nasty]

What's spooning? 

its like when two people lay in bed one behind the other kind of fitting in to one and other

like this im sure there will be better images but this one will show well enough

[tpe]

Last night I watched BBm again! 

I noticed something that never have before, even it was always somewhere in my thoughts. I found it strange. (If someone had already mention it,  , but it's not easy to catch with everything here in the Forum)

Well, it is just about the intimate scenes - they are all cut, stopped, blocked in a very aggressive way.

FNIT - after the intercourse, we just see them fall down, and it's less than a second. The shoot is so big, can't have a good picture about what was going on.

SNIT - No overture in front of the fire, just Jack waiting half naked. Short kissing is suddenly interupted with their wrestling watched by Aguirre. So aggressive cut! Firstly, even the wrestling doesn't have a closure (as Hippie has already mentioned), and secondly, we get the feeling that they were caught by Aguirre the very next morning after they made love, which is not the case!

Reunion kiss also interrupted by Alma...

Well, this is the way I see it, and maybe Lee had a message with this kind of scenes, but I always wanted to see the closure of these precious moments.

Also -  the last night before the tragedy (I already mentioned it), I would've liked to see them in the tent facing each other. No sex, just a deep intimacy.

But hey, it's just me! Maybe I'm wrong ....   

Well, quite often, leaving many things implied is much more effective on our imaginations.  Spelling things out can be rather disappointing, especially if we had something more in our minds.  The scenes are tantalizing enough to be more than effective on our imaginations...

[vedrana]

Well, quite often, leaving many things implied is much more effective on our imaginations.  Spelling things out can be rather disappointing, especially if we had something more in our minds.  The scenes are tantalizing enough to be more than effective on our imaginations...

I assume that an average moviegoer would find those scenes enough or maybe MORE that enough. I personally needed a little bit more. Who knows, maybe it would've really spoil the movie, or make it too simple and too shallow, or.... Hm... not easy! Anyway, I needed more of the two    together!  At least a proper closure of some scenes!

As I said, I'd also like to see some materials never shown in the movie. Of any kind! That would be an opportunity to see some more of Heath who really entered my heart so deeply and whose lost I take with a deep regret! :\'(

[tpe]

I assume that an average moviegoer would find those scenes enough or maybe MORE that enough. I personally needed a little bit more. Who knows, maybe it would've really spoil the movie, or make it too simple and too shallow, or.... Hm... not easy! Anyway, I needed more of the two    together!  At least a proper closure of some scenes!

As I said, I'd also like to see some materials never shown in the movie. Of any kind! That would be an opportunity to see some more of Heath who really entered my heart so deeply and whose lost I take with a deep regret! :\'(

Well, I understand your wanting more. 

But you are right in waht you say here -- for the average movie-goer not to be distacted, these scenes were enough.  It was a careful balance that paid off, in the long run. 

[vedrana]

I guess I always think of "spooning" as the contentment shown after sex.   

That's OK with me, but I think that they were too distant for "spooning", as well as they had been the night earlier sitting in the chairs. So far away! More intimacy before the final stroke, would comfort the viwers i think, and it would not escape from the original story!

 

[vedrana]

Well, I understand your wanting more. 

But you are right in waht you say here -- for the average movie-goer not to be distacted, these scenes were enough.  It was a careful balance that paid off, in the long run. 

Well, it's enough to say that BBM was shown on our TV 2 times, always after midnight! In my opinion there are far more malignant things shown in early hours that kids are just swallowing and learning from, but these 2-3 scenes the authorities took as an pornography (well -almost!), so BBM was hidden into the deep night.

Obviously the scenes were not so innocent as I take them now... 

[tpe]

Well, it's enough to say that BBM was shown on our TV 2 times, always after midnight! In my opinion there are far more malignant things shown in early hours that kids are just swallowing and learning from, but these 2-3 scenes the authorities took as an pornography (well -almost!), so BBM was hidden into the deep night.

Obviously the scenes were not so innocent as I take them now... 

I do think that BBM calls for a great deal of maturity to be properly appreciated.  But I suspect that a lot of adults don't have the requsite maturity, and that is a pity.  For some of them, the sex scenes might have been unpleasant -- this owing kore to prejudice than to true understanding that it's about love and not the sexual act per se.

[orangetruck]

Well, it's enough to say that BBM was shown on our TV 2 times, always after midnight! In my opinion there are far more malignant things shown in early hours that kids are just swallowing and learning from, but these 2-3 scenes the authorities took as an pornography (well -almost!), so BBM was hidden into the deep night.

Obviously the scenes were not so innocent as I take them now... 

I hear that! It's incredible (in the not so incredible kinda way   ) what television chooses to censor. In fact, I find it rather crazy.