Topic: Would you change the sex scenes and, if so, how...?

[vedrana]

I've always wondered if the love scenes were filmed more for the general (heterosexual) population.   What I mean,  I can't help but think of the book "Men are from mars, Woman are from Venus".  We are talking about two men.   no matter straight or gay, their men.   Do we tend to look at this from that point of view of a hereto relationship?     Will two men communicate verbally, or non verbally as a man and a woman.  I think of the covers of romance novels, the woman laid out in the arms of  a strong man looking down at her, rescuing her from some unknown danger.   Remember movie picture of  "Gone with the Wind", and then "Brokeback Mountain".     

I don't know if I'm making sense, but how would the FNIT and the SNIT played if were a man and a woman, how would you interpert it.   I was just wonering are we looking at it from our personal veiw point, or can we think out of the box,  and really look at it from their point of veiw and what do you think it is.     

I can speak for myself here, and said that before seeing Ennis and Jack in intimate scenes, I thought that I would dislike the movie just cos the stereotype we all have in our mind. I needed to see a (strong) man and a (fragile) woman and that was the perfection in the romantic relationship for me. I also thought that if there were 2 man involved, one of them was supposed to be woman-ish. But in Ennis and Jack's situation, we had two strong, equal in intellect, strength, height and everything that matters. They had the opposite characters, but that didn't mark them as more or less macho.
As for FNIT -I believe that the awkwardness that is prevailing in their first physical contact wouldn't be there at all, if it was about a man and a woman, and that would make the scene far less attractive IMO. SNIT wouldn't have so much differences as FNIT, cos SNIT was more about the complete emotional surrender, after the first step (FNIT) has already done! That is my opinion of course, and I can be wrong.
We all have our personal point of view, and I can sense how man here on the forum have a different feeling about BBm that women, but each person has it's own - completely individual.
I can say that I've come a long way from reluctance to see this movie for the reasons that I've just explained, to loving the movie and both of our boys madly. I think I went out from the box.
Finally, we can think of Ennis and Jack in the way they thought of themselves and each other, but it will always be under the shadow of our personal experience and our characters. None can't do it 100%, but we all do our best, cos experiencing them in the closest/purest way bring us closer to them and to their love, we adore so much.

Uh, did I make any sense??

[tpe]

I've always wondered if the love scenes were filmed more for the general (heterosexual) population.   What I mean,  I can't help but think of the book "Men are from mars, Woman are from Venus".  We are talking about two men.   no matter straight or gay, their men.   Do we tend to look at this from that point of view of a hereto relationship?     Will two men communicate verbally, or non verbally as a man and a woman.  I think of the covers of romance novels, the woman laid out in the arms of  a strong man looking down at her, rescuing her from some unknown danger.   Remember movie picture of  "Gone with the Wind", and then "Brokeback Mountain".     

I don't know if I'm making sense, but how would the FNIT and the SNIT played if were a man and a woman, how would you interpert it.   I was just wonering are we looking at it from our personal veiw point, or can we think out of the box,  and really look at it from their point of veiw and what do you think it is.     

I think it very possible that the general viewer was on the director's mind when he did these scenes.  Had the SNIT and FNIT been done as heterosexual scenes, perhaps it would have been made with a little more explicitness in the details.  

I don't think that a heterosexual FNIT and SNIT would be done in the manner that the sex in "Lust, Caution" was done.  It would probably NOT be appropriate in a film such as BBM, where things were not openly spelled out.

[myprivatejack]

I think it very possible that the general viewer was on the director's mind when he did these scenes.  Had the SNIT and FNIT been done as heterosexual scenes, perhaps it would have been made with a little more explicitness in the details.  

I don't think that a heterosexual FNIT and SNIT would be done in the manner that the sex in "Lust, Caution" was done.  It would probably NOT be appropriate in a film such as BBM, where things were not openly spelled out.

I think also that Ang Lee took into account the average possible viewer of his movie and maybe asked to himself if they could be prepared enough as too see two men's sex with the explicitness of men-women sex in hetero movies.Being as it's BBM a work about love's greatness and with a non always verbal speech,IMO there're many others gay movies that show a more physical relationships,what's wasn't the intention here...It has been even counterproductive a greater explicitness in sex scenes,even more sex scenes by themselves; stereotypes has been in the first place when criticising the movie,and I think Ang had run away from stereotypes precisely from the very first moment.

[tpe]

I think also that Ang Lee took into account the average possible viewer of his movie and maybe asked to himself if they could be prepared enough as too see two men's sex with the explicitness of men-women sex in hetero movies.Being as it's BBM a work about love's greatness and with a non always verbal speech,IMO there're many others gay movies that show a more physical relationships,what's wasn't the intention here...It has been even counterproductive a greater explicitness in sex scenes,even more sex scenes by themselves; stereotypes has been in the first place when criticising the movie,and I think Ang had run away from stereotypes precisely from the very first moment.

FNIT (perhaps the most "explicit" of all the scenes) was done relatively quickly -- some "average" viewers perhaps didn't know what hit them until after the scene was over.   And if they doubted in FNIT that it was all about love, then the more lyrical SNIT made sure to put any such doubt to rest.

 

[BlueMountain]

FNIT (perhaps the most "explicit" of all the scenes) was done relatively quickly -- some "average" viewers perhaps didn't know what hit them until after the scene was over.   And if they doubted in FNIT that it was all about love, then the more lyrical SNIT made sure to put any such doubt to rest.

 

And from the moment Ennis went inside the tent till the scene was over, there was no music at all which really helped with the "unknown" type atmosphere...

[tpe]

And from the moment Ennis went inside the tent till the scene was over, there was no music at all which really helped with the "unknown" type atmosphere...

Very good observation!  The absence of music made the mood quite unpredictable, adding to the overall tension and suspense...  The mucis acted as a marker/indicator in the movie, and the absence marked crucial points where one is lost or in a dream state: such as FNIT and the scene showing Jack's murder.

[vedrana]

Very good observation!  The absence of music made the mood quite unpredictable, adding to the overall tension and suspense...  The mucis acted as a marker/indicator in the movie, and the absence marked crucial points where one is lost or in a dream state: such as FNIT and the scene showing Jack's murder.

But SNIT had a well know sound of the Brokeback mountain theme showing us that what was happening during SNIT WAS Brokeback, that WAS Love we're talking about the whole movie.  And it sounded 

[BlueMountain]

Very good observation!  The absence of music made the mood quite unpredictable, adding to the overall tension and suspense...  The mucis acted as a marker/indicator in the movie, and the absence marked crucial points where one is lost or in a dream state: such as FNIT and the scene showing Jack's murder.

But SNIT had a well know sound of the Brokeback mountain theme showing us that what was happening during SNIT WAS Brokeback, that WAS Love we're talking about the whole movie.  And it sounded 

Hmm. I think this was becasue, like tpe said, to make the scene tense, and Ennis and Jack were tense and were also kind of confused and in such a hurry... But in the SNIT they understood their love... So we could "Hear" it

[tpe]

But SNIT had a well know sound of the Brokeback mountain theme showing us that what was happening during SNIT WAS Brokeback, that WAS Love we're talking about the whole movie.  And it sounded 

Hmm. I think this was becasue, like tpe said, to make the scene tense, and Ennis and Jack were tense and were also kind of confused and in such a hurry... But in the SNIT they understood their love... So we could "Hear" it

The BBM themes were used in so many ways.  It is surprising how the themes were used to suggest so many different moods, from the ominous to the sublime.  SNIT is a good illustration of how the "arpeggiated" form of the theme can set the mood so beautifully.

 

[vedrana]

Have I ever mentioned that I'd like a prolonged version of SNIT... something like 15-30 min...?? 
Maybe only 100 times... 

[BlueMountain]

Have I ever mentioned that I'd like a prolonged version of SNIT... something like 15-30 min...?? 
Maybe only 100 times... 

  THAT would be very yummy!

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I don't know if I would change any of the sex scenes.  Of course SNIT was not a sex scene to me.  We watched a scene where these two really connected.  The innocent passion of the scene far out shadowed anything sexual.

[vedrana]

I don't know if I would change any of the sex scenes.  Of course SNIT was not a sex scene to me.  We watched a scene where these two really connected.  The innocent passion of the scene far out shadowed anything sexual.

If we take things so strictly, the only sex scene would be FNIT. And in a way it is so!

Also, I agree that innocent passion in SNIT was the most significant part, but we know where that was leading, and had we seen a little more of SNIT, I'm sure that it would be a real sex scene! The best! 

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

True indeed we know where SNIT was leading.  For me I didn't need to see any more.  My imagination completed the journey for me. lol  Had we seen any additional footage BBM might have been given an NC-17 rating. 

[vedrana]

True indeed we know where SNIT was leading.  For me I didn't need to see any more.  My imagination completed the journey for me. lol  Had we seen any additional footage BBM might have been given an NC-17 rating. 

Who cares for the ratings?? I'd just like to see some more...

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I guess at this point the film's rating doesn't matter.  However had there been additional sex footage it might have limited the film's availability to the masses in the beginning. I would have hated to travel any further than what I did to see the film.  I was already obsessed with the story by the time it hit the theaters. 

[vedrana]

I guess at this point the film's rating doesn't matter.  However had there been additional sex footage it might have limited the film's availability to the masses in the beginning. I would have hated to travel any further than what I did to see the film.  I was already obsessed with the story by the time it hit the theaters. 

Hm... now it's question what would be better - to have more sex scenes and limited availability or the same situation as it is now! I know what I would chose, but the majority of the average viewer decides! 

[rimasworld]

These movie ratings kind of irritate me. So many that are very violent only get R and much more explicit sex scenes between men & women get R. The fact that they had to be careful with the scenes showing 2 men in love is a shame.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

You are correct. It is a shame there is such a double standard.

[tpe]

I don't know if I would change any of the sex scenes.  Of course SNIT was not a sex scene to me.  We watched a scene where these two really connected.  The innocent passion of the scene far out shadowed anything sexual.

Yes, this is what I implied in one of my previous posts: that the SNIT could be considered as NOT a sex scene.  It depends on one's point of view, I guess.  Or imagination....

[tpe]

These movie ratings kind of irritate me. So many that are very violent only get R and much more explicit sex scenes between men & women get R. The fact that they had to be careful with the scenes showing 2 men in love is a shame.

Well, a number of them do tend to be arbitrary.  And frankly, I would censure gore before I would a sex scene.  It was easier for teens to watch "Hostel" than BBM!   

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Yes, this is what I implied in one of my previous posts: that the SNIT could be considered as NOT a sex scene.  It depends on one's point of view, I guess.  Or imagination....

I guess it's one reason why I didn't need to see anymore.  My imagination allowed me to picture what I wanted for the conclusion of SNIT.

[BlueMountain]

Well, a number of them do tend to be arbitrary.  And frankly, I would censure gore before I would a sex scene.  It was easier for teens to watch "Hostel" than BBM!   

OMG that's so true! (Not in my case though!!)
I can't stand torture movies! But I do like horror movies

I believe they should have another rating above R, not NC-17 but something inbetween for gory movies like House of Wax or
 The Strangers (Which I LOVE  )

[tpe]

I guess it's one reason why I didn't need to see anymore.  My imagination allowed me to picture what I wanted for the conclusion of SNIT.

And I personally think it is better this way.  People differ on what they think is an ideal sex scene.  Had they shown everything, it may have disappointed as many people as there are who liked what was shown.  But the way they did it, everyone is free to insert in his/her mind the ideal scene according to personal taste.

[tpe]

OMG that's so true! (Not in my case though!!)
I can't stand torture movies! But I do like horror movies

I believe they should have another rating above R, not NC-17 but something inbetween for gory movies like House of Wax or
 The Strangers (Which I LOVE  )

   I certainly didn't mean to reference you in particular, BM. 

I have mixed feeling about rating systems altogether.  I think here in the US, they are too stringent on sex scenes and too lax on gore and violence.

[BlueMountain]

  I certainly didn't mean to reference you in particular, BM. 

I have mixed feeling about rating systems altogether.  I think here in the US, they are too stringent on sex scenes and too lax on gore and violence.

  I know

I agree with you tpe on the fact that they should cencor violence before sex

Yaaay. I said "Sex" (Yes, I know, Im very immature! ) LOL

[tpe]

I know

I agree with you tpe on the fact that they should cencor violence before sex

Yaaay. I said "Sex" (Yes, I know, Im very immature! ) LOL

I agree.  Unless sex was somehow done with violence and gore. 

[BlueMountain]

I agree.  Unless sex was somehow done with violence and gore. 

Woah! That's scary! 

[tpe]

Woah! That's scary! 

A lot of the "teeny-gory" movies try to do this, BTW. 

[BlueMountain]

A lot of the "teeny-gory" movies try to do this, BTW. 

  Oh okay, I thought you meant Violence and Gore WHILE Sex scenes. lol