Author Topic: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers  (Read 80786 times)

Offline Fleur

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #30 on: Jan 15, 2006, 03:10 PM »
Ya you're right - went off on a tangent! :D Haven't read the story though - gotta get my hands on it!

Offline Sitaram

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #31 on: Jan 23, 2006, 02:00 PM »
The red on her finger reminds me of Lady MacBeth "Out damn spot".

I have only seen the movie twice.  I could swear that Ennis put a number on the mail box, and then, next scene of mailbox, there was no number.

Regarding ashes.  IF Ennis had succeeded in scattering the ashes, he still would have obtained only HALF the ashes.  Is this symbolic?   I mean, he fails to get any ashes, but all he could have hoped for was half anyway.  And why would Lureens family want half, since they did not seem too fond of Jack.

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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #32 on: Jan 23, 2006, 02:30 PM »
I have only seen the movie twice.  I could swear that Ennis put a number on the mail box, and then, next scene of mailbox, there was no number.

It's because we see the letter box from the other side (number was 17 I think)

And why would Lureens family want half, since they did not seem too fond of Jack.

Well he did leave his son and wife behind..He will always be Jack Jr.'s dad, and Lureen did love him too..it's just the father in law that did not like Jack.

My POV ;D , anyone else?


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romeshvr

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #33 on: Jan 23, 2006, 03:00 PM »
well...her is my theory on # 17 which just occurred to me...

jack and ennis met around 1963 and meet again after 4 years, which is around 1967/1968 and i believe they start a 20 year relationship.  the 20 years includes 1963-1967.  i am thinking really they started the real relationship from 1967 on wards so if we assume jack died around 1983/1984 that would make it 16/17 years.  so hence the 17 on the mail box?

also another point...

ennis's daughter was going to marry a rough neck who works in the oil fields... isn't most of the oil fields in texas... so... although this is not int he book...the book opens with how ennis has to be out of there and on the road because the farm is being sold and he might stay with his married daughter until he finds another job... remember the time ennis and jack are by the river and ennis ask jack if things between him and his wife are normal...at the end of the conversation jack says why doesn't he move to texas...could it be ennis...finally goes to texas....maybe to be close to jack's grave...

and maybe this is why ennis says...'jack, i swear _______'...  jack is pulling ennis invisibly to be close to him...they might not live to gather but in a way by being close to jack's remains is kind of living to gether....

god i'm going to cry now...

Offline Toadily

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #34 on: Jan 23, 2006, 03:05 PM »
I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming? 
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austin

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #35 on: Jan 23, 2006, 03:23 PM »
Re:One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.

******

As a thought on this posting, I had the distinct impression, from the short story and then the movie, that Jack was out for Lureen's money.  I think, for her, Jack represented a bullrider's passion and daring -- the kind of "bad boy" most fathers want their daughters to avoid.  Though we don't see it in the movie, the ss suggests that Jack is frequently gone on (legitimate) business trips after Lureen takes over BUT (paraphrase) "finds plenty of ways to spend his newfound money" (I was thinking on boys, etc.).  I believe they were drifting apart b/c of this and, even more importantly, over Lureen's refusal to acknowledge their son's learning disabilities.  Note that when Jack stands in front of Lureen's huge desk at one point in the movie, she looks at him through a haze of cigarette smoke, half ignoring him, and he begs her to talk to the teacher, since the teacher won't stand to hear from him anymore.  To me, that definitely looked like a reversal of the stereotypical irritated husband- nagging wife relationship.  Jack is obviously very maternal and protective, with his son, as well as with Ennis.  But, back to the start, having money is quite important to Jack, perhaps due to his hard upbringing and need for stability financially as well as emotionally.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2006, 03:26 PM by frog123 »

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #36 on: Jan 23, 2006, 03:27 PM »
Re:One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.

******

As a thought on this posting, I had the distinct impression, from the short story and then the movie, that Jack was out for Lureen's money.  I think, for her, Jack represented a bullrider's passion and daring -- the kind of "bad boy" most fathers want their daughters to avoid.  Though we don't see it in the movie, the ss suggests that Jack is frequently gone on (legitimate) business trips after Lureen takes over BUT (paraphrase) "finds plenty of ways to spend his newfound money" (I was thinking on boys, etc.).  I believe they were drifting apart b/c of this and, even more importantly, over Lureen's refusal to acknowledge their son's learning disabilities.  Note that when Jack stands in front of Lureen's huge desk at one point in the movie, she looks at him through a haze of cigarette smoke, half ignoring him, and he begs her to talk to the teacher, since the teacher won't stand to hear from him anymore.  To me, that definitely looked like a reversal of the stereotypical irritated husband- nagging wife relationship.  Jack is obviously very maternal and protective, with his son, as well as with Ennis.  But, back to the start, having money is quite important to Jack, perhaps due to his hard upbringing and need for stability financially as well as emotionally.

Thoughts?

Modified the colour because it was too bright...hope you don't mind.
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« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2006, 03:31 PM by frog123 »
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Offline Toadily

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #37 on: Jan 23, 2006, 03:30 PM »
Yeah I think that Lureen could have had anyone but wanted someone outside her world who was more exciting, and then things didn't go the way she thought obviously.
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
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austin

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #38 on: Jan 23, 2006, 03:31 PM »
Thank you, Frog123!!!  I was so embarrassed that I couldn't figure it out .... you are so kind.

Offline j

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #39 on: Jan 23, 2006, 09:36 PM »
[
True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side.  (wonder what the significance of 17 is)
Quote


Could it be that Ennis was only 17 when he met Jack?  As they had a 20 year relationship and Jack died at age 39,so maybe he was a few years older than Ennis.

J

Offline natalia

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #40 on: Jan 23, 2006, 11:46 PM »
A tiny little detail that I noticed after the 4th viewing...
The stylists (ugh I'm forgetting the word that means the people who supply the clothing on films! senior moment at 15!) sure do love the Dickies company
Joe Aguirre is wearing a jacket with the Dickies logo on it when talks to Jack and Ennis in the first scene and Ennis also wears a Dickies jacket throughout the last half an hour of the movie.
I may be way off but isn't that a recent clothing line?
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Offline bnjmn3

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #41 on: Jan 24, 2006, 12:15 AM »
Jack liked Lureen's money, look how he grew up...remember he tells Ennis he almost starved on the rodeo circuit!   Watch Jack's face when they are dancing together..all loving stares when he is looking at her, but just before we cut to the car scene,  you catch a glimpse of Jack's real feelings when he puts his face beside Lureen's..later in the film, Lureen says husbands don't ask their own wives to dance...Jack got what he needed from her..
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Offline XWing

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #42 on: Jan 24, 2006, 12:28 AM »
I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming? 

Yes, they do. A few years ago my partner and I took a motorcycle trip to Yellowstone, and Wyoming definitely had a number of pumping jacks around. (That's the thing that actually pulls the oil out of the ground.)

Hard to believe I was actually thinking about moving to Wyoming. As beautiful as it is, I don't think it would be such a great place for two gay city-raised guys!  ;D


Offline camom

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #43 on: Jan 24, 2006, 01:26 AM »
Another thing that I noticed last viewing...after they have their big blowout (the "I wish I knew how to quit you" scene) and Ennis is crumpling over, Jack puts his arms around him, comforting him.  Then the flashback comes where Ennis puts his arms around Jack.  Then, at the end, with the shirts, first Jack symbolically has his arms around Ennis, and then Ennis has his arms around Jack.  It made me wonder if that was an intentional mirroring of the last scene where they're together.  Very touching.

camom   

Offline jimnick

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #44 on: Jan 24, 2006, 05:32 PM »
Another thing that I noticed last viewing...after they have their big blowout (the "I wish I knew how to quit you" scene) and Ennis is crumpling over, Jack puts his arms around him, comforting him.  Then the flashback comes where Ennis puts his arms around Jack.  Then, at the end, with the shirts, first Jack symbolically has his arms around Ennis, and then Ennis has his arms around Jack.  It made me wonder if that was an intentional mirroring of the last scene where they're together.  Very touching.

camom   

Excellent catch!

Jim

Offline camom

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #45 on: Jan 24, 2006, 08:06 PM »
Another thing that I noticed last viewing...after they have their big blowout (the "I wish I knew how to quit you" scene) and Ennis is crumpling over, Jack puts his arms around him, comforting him.  Then the flashback comes where Ennis puts his arms around Jack.  Then, at the end, with the shirts, first Jack symbolically has his arms around Ennis, and then Ennis has his arms around Jack.  It made me wonder if that was an intentional mirroring of the last scene where they're together.  Very touching.

camom   

Excellent catch!

Jim

I'm going to see it again tomorrow, so wonder what else I'll notice.  It's amazing how much depth there is--guess I never realized before how much it takes to make a really good movie.

camom

Offline AnitaSmith

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #46 on: Jan 27, 2006, 08:59 PM »
This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.
In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film. 
Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).  I am not so sure if this detail has any significance.  Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death? Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way...

I, too, noticed the the nail polish smudge on Lureen's finger.  I thought:  how could she be fixated on doing her nails so soon after her husband gets killed.  Then I considered that maybe keeping a routine, like a manicure, was the key to maintaining her sanity.  I noticed that her eyes did well up while she was on the telephone with Ennis. Lureen struck me as being very tough.  Remember, it was she who approached Jack first when they met.  Maybe his loss pained her more than it appeared.

Offline AnitaSmith

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Re: stray nail polish and other details
« Reply #47 on: Jan 27, 2006, 09:11 PM »
TPE:  Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room.  Everything seems soooooooo empty.  Symbolic of Jack's life with his family.  Simple.  Stoic.  Plain.
stationbbm

Stationbbm, you really touched something that I could not get out of my mind.  In Annie Proulx' story where she writes about Jack's room, the description was unforgettable in its starkness.  Particularly this passage:  <<The bedroom, at the top of a steep stair that had its own climbing rhythm, was tiny and hot. afternoon sun pounding through the west window, hitting the narrow boy's (Jack's) bed against the wall, an ink-stained desk and wooden chair, a b.b. gun in a hand-whittled rack over the bed.  The window looked down on the gravel road stretching south and it occurred to him (Ennis) that for his (Jack's) growing-up years that was the only road Jack knew.>>

Offline AnitaSmith

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #48 on: Jan 27, 2006, 09:14 PM »
Another detail:  On the door of Joe Aguirre's trailer, the sign reads:  "Trespassers will be shot.  Survivors will be shot again."

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #49 on: Jan 27, 2006, 09:18 PM »
Another detail:  On the door of Joe Aguirre's trailer, the sign reads:  "Trespassers will be shot.  Survivors will be shot again."

well spotted  ;)
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Offline bnjmn3

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #50 on: Jan 27, 2006, 10:24 PM »
Anyone notice Heath's pierced ears toward the end of the film?...cute. The Oprah appearance reminded me...
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Offline rabjr1

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #51 on: Jan 27, 2006, 11:37 PM »
I like to think that the horse that Ennis picks up in Jack's bedroom is the same one Ennis was carving up on BB.  That is if he had any time and ENERGY left to do any wood carving.
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #52 on: Jan 28, 2006, 03:13 PM »
I like to think that the horse that Ennis picks up in Jack's bedroom is the same one Ennis was carving up on BB.  That is if he had any time and ENERGY left to do any wood carving.

I looked again today..but cannot be sure...the one Ennis was working on was quite big, a the one in Jack's room so small and with details...

QUESTION : to all screen caps maniacs, can u get one of the two shots pliz????
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Offline gjz24

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #53 on: Jan 28, 2006, 03:32 PM »
Anyone noticed that the clock on the desk in Jack's childhood room. The time stopped at 8:45. It remind me the song" a quarter to nine" it may just a coincidence. I love that song.
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2006, 04:34 PM by gjz24 »

Offline Titus

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #54 on: Jan 28, 2006, 06:32 PM »
Jack’s mom is an angel.  She really is something else.  In all that anger and failure that chokes her husband; she clings to her little boy.  The one she still loves; always did, always will, nothing could ever change that.  Ennis’ visit is her one chance to share that love and sympathy, even if it is confined to a few small gestures and packing the shirts and handing them over to Ennis.  (Oh God, someone’s opening the Grand Cooley Dam again.  Wish they’d stop doing that!) 

His room is nothing less than a shrine; the few items all carefully looked after.  Sparse and spare, but full of Jack’s true treasures-the shirts hidden away (Mom surely must have known they were there) and that wooden horse (the one Ennis was carving?).  Mrs. Twist is the guardian of the shrine, she must spend what little time she has to herself, when the old man is at his chores and she has a spare moment, in his room trying to keep company with the son she loves so much.  Really underscores what it meant to hand over those shirts, as Jack’s belongings were already rather sparse.  Also that was the perfect place for Jack to keep his treasures, somewhere Lureen would never go, never intrude upon.

The book stabbed me in the heart with that picture of the family graveyard with its faded plastic flowers amidst that barren, deserted landscape.  Dad knows that’s where he’s a going and then it’s the end of the line.  No son to take over, no future for what generations of his family must have worked hard to create.  He’s a total failure and even he can find no solace to ease his pain.  The thought of Jack (who, I of all people, know would be in a better place-Heaven) in that cold, hard ground in the middle of nowhere, breaks my effing heart. 
"Holding on to this moment of love and forgiveness mediated by this beautiful, loving boy.  Whose heart and soul had passed through the shadows and remained unsullied, undefeated."  The Redemption of Ennis Del Mar

Offline kysmith72

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #55 on: Jan 28, 2006, 11:03 PM »
A few details I noted...

1.  Alma Jr. had bluebird earings on in the bar scene with Cassie (I think), and then Lureen saying that for all she knew Brokeback was a mythical place where bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring.  I wonder if this is intentional or just coincidence.

2.  For some reason Cassie's dragonfly rings stand out to me... don't know why.

3.  Also, when Ennis left Jack's parents home, he left the window to Jack's room open.  This might mean he is somehow letting Jack free?

I like the thought that the stray nail polish meant that Lureen somehow had "blood on her hands".  Maybe she could put up with a few "fishing" trips a year but not in her own backyard.
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2006, 11:06 PM by kysmith72 »

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #56 on: Jan 29, 2006, 08:40 PM »
Great insight kysmith72...I agree that the open window allows Jack out...thanks
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Offline Sitaram

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #57 on: Jan 29, 2006, 11:03 PM »
On the other hand, perhaps opening the window has something to do with Ennis' opening up to the possibilities of the future, to somehow resolve things for himself, and move on.  I dont know. Not sure. But I think one must allow for that possibility.

I mean, he was about to tell his daughter that he could not attend the wedding. But suddenly, something changed inside him, and he said yes.

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Offline chameau

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #58 on: Jan 29, 2006, 11:25 PM »
Hi guys and gals!

Please stick to the topic  ;D

"Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).  "

This one nice detail I noticed on my 3st viewings,

On 4 th viewing I was looking somewhere else.

It's my turn now to be off topic, duh!
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Offline Cream Puff

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Re: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers
« Reply #59 on: Jan 30, 2006, 12:07 AM »
Hello all,

I guess I can be the authority on the Wyoming stuff seeing as I live just outside of Casper. There are in fact rigs here. Halliburton (linked to the vice president) has a branch here. Just down the road from me as a matter of fact.

I too noticed all the details you've been discussing. I didn't realize that was actually nail polish on Lureen's finger. I figured maybe it was blood from a needle prick (?) or something. The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.

I'm not sure what else to add here. And a side note... I'm not sure how many of you folks know this, but the movie was filmed in Canada. Wyoming doesn't have much scenery like what was in the movie. It's mostly just sagebrush, cactus, and dry grass around here. At least in the part I live in.

If you have any Wyoming related questions, I can do my best to answer them.

Keep smiling!
CP :P