Author Topic: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers (Read 80847 times)

Sitaram · « **Reply #60 on:** Jan 30, 2006, 12:21 AM »

Quote from: Cream Puff on Jan 30, 2006, 12:07 AM

The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.

Now that you mention that horse in Jack's room, the cowboy on the horse bears a curious resemblence to a cartoon movie of toys which are alive and have an adventure, or is that my imagination. Is it called Toystory? I only remember seeing previews on televsion. That cowboy figure stuck in my mind. Did anyone else get that impression?

Cream Puff · « **Reply #61 on:** Jan 30, 2006, 07:49 PM »

Now that I think about it, yes the horse and rider did resemble Woody and Bullseye from Toy Story.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #62 on:** Jan 30, 2006, 08:30 PM »

The horse Ennis was carving was not finished and could have been the one in Jack's room.

Every kid had a horse and cowboy toy back then. Why I even had a holster and chaps when a 6 year old......nothing like the chaps I wear these days.....leather ones....... big openings.....gotta go

AnitaSmith · « **Reply #63 on:** Jan 30, 2006, 10:45 PM »

Quote from: Sitaram on Jan 30, 2006, 12:21 AM

Now that you mention that horse in Jack's room, the cowboy on the horse bears a curious resemblance to a cartoon movie of toys which are alive and have an adventure, or is that my imagination. Is it called Toystory? I only remember seeing previews on television. That cowboy figure stuck in my mind. Did anyone else get that impression?

There is most definitely a resemblance to "Woody," the cowboy in Toystory. Here's a brief plot summary from "Toystory:" <<Toy Story is about the 'secret life of toys' when people are not around. When Buzz Lightyear, a space-ranger, takes Woody's place as Andy's favorite toy, Woody doesn't like the situation and gets into a fight with Buzz. Accidentally, Buzz falls out the window and Woody is accused by all the other toys of having killed him. He has to go out of the house to look for him so that they can both return to Andy's room. But while on the outside they get into all kinds of trouble while trying to get home.>>

Patriot1 · « **Reply #64 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 12:19 AM »

Quote from: Toadily on Jan 23, 2006, 03:05 PM

I never thought of where Ennis is at the end, interesting...I mean *do* they have oil fields in Wyoming?

They have oil fields in downtown Los Angeles --- why not Wyoming?

Patriot1 · « **Reply #65 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 12:48 AM »

Quote from: camom on Jan 24, 2006, 08:06 PM

It's amazing how much depth there is--guess I never realized before how much it takes to make a really good movie.

Camom

I think it takes a genius like Ang Lee.

Totally forgetting the subject of the movie, let me say that the performances of Jacob Gyllenhall, Heath Ledger and Ang Lee will go down in my mine as absolute perfection. The other actors were just that --- actors, and it came across that way to me. That is not to say the didn't give good performances; they did.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #66 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 01:08 AM »

Quote from: Cream Puff on Jan 30, 2006, 12:07 AM

The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.

No, it wasn't the same horse, as you say. But, did it represent how much the two of them were alike and were meant to be together? Jack having a carved horse when he was a boy and liking it enough to keep it all those years. Ennis carving a horse somewhat like it. Is this one of the things that attracted Jack to Ennis: their similar likes?

Patriot1 · « **Reply #67 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 01:11 AM »

Quote from: Cream Puff on Jan 30, 2006, 12:07 AM

If you have any Wyoming related questions, I can do my best to answer them.

What is gay life like in Wyoming --- if there is any? I have heard it can be very dangerous up there for a gay person (or bi-sexual for that mater). True?

rabjr1 · « **Reply #68 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 07:47 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Jan 31, 2006, 01:08 AM

Quote from: Cream Puff on Jan 30, 2006, 12:07 AM
The horse in Jack's room wasn't the one Ennis carved. The one Ennis carved was bigger and less detailed.

No, it wasn't the same horse, as you say. But, did it represent how much the two of them were alike and were meant to be together? Jack having a carved horse when he was a boy and liking it enough to keep it all those years. Ennis carving a horse somewhat like it. Is this one of the things that attracted Jack to Ennis: their similar likes?

from what I could see of the horse that Ennis was carving was a work in progress, that is not finished. Consider that a rider for this carving would be done separately. The finished carving could very wel have been the one Ennis was carving on BBM.

camom · « **Reply #69 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 09:43 AM »

Quote from: Titus on Jan 28, 2006, 06:32 PM

His room is nothing less than a shrine; the few items all carefully looked after. Sparse and spare, but full of Jack’s true treasures-the shirts hidden away (Mom surely must have known they were there) and that wooden horse (the one Ennis was carving?). Mrs. Twist is the guardian of the shrine, she must spend what little time she has to herself, when the old man is at his chores and she has a spare moment, in his room trying to keep company with the son she loves so much. Really underscores what it meant to hand over those shirts, as Jack’s belongings were already rather sparse. Also that was the perfect place for Jack to keep his treasures, somewhere Lureen would never go, never intrude upon.

I think you're right, Jack's mom must have known the shirts were there. And your comment about keeping his treasures there, safe from Lureen--now I do think that horse and rider might very well be the finished version of the one Ennis was carving up on Brokeback. Great observations!

camom

Titus · « **Reply #70 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 01:16 PM »

Kisses to rabjr1 and camom (wish I could work these damned smiley faces!), I think that the horse we see Ennis beginning to carve near the start of the summer may very well be the one we see with the rider in Jack's room. What could be more natural whittling to pass the time while he was alone on the mountain with only the sheep for company? By summer's end he'd have a lovely little trinket. Who would he give it to? Besides it has such a sixties look to it (a la cartoons popular at the time) and Ennis does make a beeline for it at the end when he visits Jack's room for the first time. I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time! Titus.

Kindred · « **Reply #71 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 01:31 PM »

I think the strongest arguement that the carved toy is not the same one that Ennis was working on earlier in the film was simply the reaction that Ennis had at seeing the toy, or more correctly, the lack of reaction. Personally, I would have thought that finding something like that would have elicited a reaction similar to the one when the shirts are found.

Furthermore, there is no such hint in the short story, and I think such a discovery would take away from the power and emotion of the shirt scene.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #72 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 07:06 PM »

I think that in this movie there are several little things that show up early and then again later in the film. Maybe to reinforce the connection oh the mountain/past? Of course the shirts are the most poignant, intimate, heart-gut wrenching things in this film. The horse carving scene and the horse & rider scene are similar but less intense.

Got to see the film again to compare the figures in Ennis's hand.

camom · « **Reply #73 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 03:07 AM »

Quote from: Kindred on Jan 31, 2006, 01:31 PM

I think the strongest arguement that the carved toy is not the same one that Ennis was working on earlier in the film was simply the reaction that Ennis had at seeing the toy, or more correctly, the lack of reaction. Personally, I would have thought that finding something like that would have elicited a reaction similar to the one when the shirts are found.

Furthermore, there is no such hint in the short story, and I think such a discovery would take away from the power and emotion of the shirt scene.

You make a very good point. The only thing I would say in defense of the horse theory (lol) is that presumably Ennis would've given it to Jack and therefore it wouldn't have been a huge surprise to see in his room (he does take the time to pick it up and look at), whereas Ennis thought he'd lost his shirt 20 years earlier. It must have been a shock to find it in Jack's closet.

Now I'll have to watch the movie over and over again just to compare those two horses!

camom

tpe · « **Reply #74 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 09:56 AM »

Quote from: camom on Feb 01, 2006, 03:07 AM

Quote from: Kindred on Jan 31, 2006, 01:31 PM
I think the strongest arguement that the carved toy is not the same one that Ennis was working on earlier in the film was simply the reaction that Ennis had at seeing the toy, or more correctly, the lack of reaction. Personally, I would have thought that finding something like that would have elicited a reaction similar to the one when the shirts are found.

Furthermore, there is no such hint in the short story, and I think such a discovery would take away from the power and emotion of the shirt scene.

You make a very good point. The only thing I would say in defense of the horse theory (lol) is that presumably Ennis would've given it to Jack and therefore it wouldn't have been a huge surprise to see in his room (he does take the time to pick it up and look at), whereas Ennis thought he'd lost his shirt 20 years earlier. It must have been a shock to find it in Jack's closet.

Now I'll have to watch the movie over and over again just to compare those two horses!

camom

What amazes me is that the toy horse suggested/brought back to the minds of many viewers those halycon days in 1963 on Brokeback Mountain. This is a wonderful and suggestive cinematic device, in my opinion.

The toy also seems to suggest a lost innocence...

Kindred · « **Reply #75 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 12:04 PM »

I absolutely agree that the toy was used purposely to draw the viewer back to the past of the movie. My first thought upon seeing Ennis pick up the toy was if they were one and the same.

*Froggy* · « **Reply #76 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 07:17 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Feb 01, 2006, 09:56 AM

What amazes me is that the toy horse suggested/brought back to the minds of many viewers those halycon days in 1963 on Brokeback Mountain. This is a wonderful and suggestive cinematic device, in my opinion.

The toy also seems to suggest a lost innocence...

amazing indeed! Thankx

croyden · « **Reply #77 on:** Feb 04, 2006, 07:49 PM »

(Why didn't Lureen elaborate on the details of her husband's death...)

I'm sure that "maintaining Southern decorum" was ingrained in Lureen from her earliest childhood. Watch the mannerisms of Lureen and her mother at the dining room on Thanksgiving. Fayette Newsome sat there painfully quiet trying to maintain her dignity as L.D. and Jack had their domestic stand-off. Lureen sat there much in the same manner. I thought it was a very interesting look into her upbringing.

*Froggy* · « **Reply #78 on:** Feb 04, 2006, 07:55 PM »

Quote from: croyden on Feb 04, 2006, 07:49 PM

(Why didn't Lureen elaborate on the details of her husband's death...)

Thankx Croyden...why did she not elaborate, I guess that even Ang Lee did not want to elaborate where Annie Proulx didn't.

Cream Puff · « **Reply #79 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 02:12 PM »

To Patriot1,

Well, as far as I can tell, there's a pretty defined presence of gays and lesbians in Wyoming. There seems to be a little bit of fear of coming out due to incidents of the past (Matt Shepard), but I worked for a lesbian couple and also worked with a couple of lesbians and a couple of gay men. I'm still friends with the guys. They're as open as they feel they should be and if nothing else are happy in their skins. I also went to school with a kid for years who is gay.

I must say that when I started working, I was pretty sheltered, so it took me months to figure out that my bosses were gay. They wear wedding rings, so I figured they had husbands. The clincher though is that the rings are identical. There were other clues too so I just kept quiet about it and eventually it just clicked. But then again, they aren't as open about it seeing that they run a business.

My buddies are just like anybody else. Lonely for companionship and tired of playing head games. They're great friends though because they can accept me as I am. I'm a little on the heavy side, and they can see past that to the fact that I'm a great person.

For the people I know and have talked to, life seems as normal as it can be. They hate it when people label them. They just want to be accepted for who they are and not as "Oh, this is so and so and he/she is gay."

Does that answer your question well enough? I refuse to give names or locations as I don't know where people are and I don't exactly want anything to happen to anybody I'm close to. I hope you respect that.

Any other questions?

Keep smiling!
CP

manila_rocks · « **Reply #80 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 02:52 PM »

Did anyone else notice what appears to be ash or an insect (small black speck) on Ennis's face during one of the outdoor scenes when he is talking with Jack up on Brokeback by the River?

A second later, after a push from Jack, the object is missing from Ennis face. It is then noticeable that what I think is cigarette ashes are on Ennis's collar.

tpe · « **Reply #81 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 03:03 PM »

Yes I did. I initially thought it was an insect, but not so sure really. After Ennis hits Jack ('All them THINGS I don't know...'), it seemed to have fallen on his shirt collar.

These things are what you start noticing after multiple viewings!

I think I will merge this thread with 'Stray Nail Polish and Other Details'.

manila_rocks · « **Reply #82 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 03:19 PM »

Do you think Jack burned Ennis face with a cigarette? Which left a butt? And it then fell to his collar?

tpe · « **Reply #83 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 03:37 PM »

Quote from: manila_rocks on Feb 06, 2006, 03:19 PM

Do you think Jack burned Ennis face with a cigarette? Which left a butt? And it then fell to his collar?

I doubt it.

manila_rocks · « **Reply #84 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 06:19 PM »

i am trying to figure out how such a butt could have gotten on ennis's face.

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #85 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 07:12 PM »

Mosquito..big one. Flies off (or its another take) after Ennis says..all them things I don't know...

CherryCake · « **Reply #86 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 09:17 PM »

Yea, I thought it was a horsefly.

romeshvr · « **Reply #87 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 10:02 PM »

sorry but i got lost...what exactly is the stray nail polish suppose to mean....

chameau · « **Reply #88 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 10:05 PM »

Quote from: romeshvr on Feb 06, 2006, 10:02 PM

sorry but i got lost...what exactly is the stray nail polish suppose to mean....

She had stains of nail polish on a finger, the hand holding the phone.

romeshvr · « **Reply #89 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 10:19 PM »

ok. is that supposed to mean something...like blood on her hand?