Topic: My Unanswered Questions What Are Yours????? - Possible spoilers

[shieldmaid]

Totally hypothetical, I know, but my big "unanswered question" at the moment is, if Jack had lived, would he have met Ennis again in November? Given the whole "Brokeback is all we got.." scene, the pain that Ennis is in "I'm nothing.....I'm nowhere.......I can't stand this anymore...." and the look on Jacks face as Ennis' trailer drives away........was Jack going to give up and let Ennis go? Would he have gone for second best with Randall? I noticed that it was Ennis that sent the postcard to Jack about November (that came back stamped "Deceased").....would Jack have replied?
We'll never know.......sigh!
Samc

I have to believe that yes, he would have.  I also thought maybe this was a kind of pivotal moment in their relationship--Ennis breaks down, clutching Jack, admitting that it's hard for him too.  And Jack looks at Ennis driving away, remembering the reasons why he loves him (the long-ago embrace on Brokeback).  Perhaps Ennis would have been more open after that point?  Or I'm just too hopeful maybe??

[NoReins]

I have to believe that yes, he would have.  I also thought maybe this was a kind of pivotal moment in their relationship--Ennis breaks down, clutching Jack, admitting that it's hard for him too.  And Jack looks at Ennis driving away, remembering the reasons why he loves him (the long-ago embrace on Brokeback).  Perhaps Ennis would have been more open after that point?  Or I'm just too hopeful maybe??

Yeah, I believe he would, too. Jack couldn't quit Ennis - even at the end of the lakeside scene, when Ennis breaks down Jack goes to him, reassures him ("I'm sorry, it's alright, damn you Ennis") and holds him while Ennis cries. I think the "damn you Ennis" line is crucial - it's not said with a "I hate you" kind of tone, it's far more of a "damn you for making me love you so much". Jack certainly wished it wasn't so hard, and that they could be together more, but he could never (in my opinion) have settled for anyone else.

[xvbbJ]

I don't think Ennis would ever find anyone to replace Jack

Well, I like to think he will find another soulmate .. Not someone to replace Jack as Jack is unique and his first love, and we all know those are the strongest and truly for forever, but maybe there'd be someone else besides (the memory of) Jack for Ennis in the BBM world .. That's the power of BBM and it's open end, we can all imagine ours.

[Frankito]

I want to know why those two unfamiliar faces are in the movie trailers but not in the movie. Is it one of the deleted scenes they forgot to cut from the trailer? Are those Jack's folks in seventies? The Dodge truck behind them appears to be a 1975 0r 1976 model. Is that scene going to be included in the "Director's Cut" release of the DVD? Someone please answer.

[*Froggy*]

I want to know why those two unfamiliar faces are in the movie trailers but not in the movie. Is it one of the deleted scenes they forgot to cut from the trailer? Are those Jack's folks in seventies? The Dodge truck behind them appears to be a 1975 0r 1976 model. Is that scene going to be included in the "Director's Cut" release of the DVD? Someone please answer.

whose faces?

[Hanna]

whose faces?

you can see two mechanics for one or two seconds in the trailer.

but sorry, i have no idea, why they are shown in the trailer but not in the movie. but i also think hat they are in jack's environment in the later years in texas.

[welshwitch]

Ohmigod, I thought these two were the rancher who was murdered and someone out of the mob ( ? Ennis's father) who murdered him.)

The bit I don't get is the bit on the trailer where Jack says, "Well if we're going to be working together, guess we'd better start drinking together." Does that fit in while they're outside Aguirre's trailer?

[Patriot1]

The bit I don't get is the bit on the trailer where Jack says, "Well if we're going to be working together, guess we'd better start drinking together." Does that fit in while they're outside Aguirre's trailer?

I always thought that was what Jack said right after introducing himself to Ennis and finding out Ennis' name. 

<OT>    I always thought it so sad that Ennis was so homophobic he wouldn't even walk along side of Jack on the way to the bar.

[NoReins]

I've got another question - just dawned on me during the hour of the movie that I just managed to sneak in.

When we see Ennis at the start of the movie, he is carrying a paper sack which presumably contains his spare shirt and nothing much else, since it's pretty small. At the end of their time on Brokeback, he's carrying a much larger canvas bag which seems to have quite a lot of stuff in it, but definitely does not contain his spare shirt since we know Jack takes that. So, what does that bag contain - and where did he get the bag anyway?

Also (and I know I said I only had one question and have already asked two) where does Ennis get the yellow rain jacket that he wears up on Brokeback, since the bag he takes up there is definitely not big enough for that?

Am I in the wrong thread here? Should these maybe be in the bloopers thread? Or does anyone have a reasonable explanation?

[CrimsonSky]

I've got another question - just dawned on me during the hour of the movie that I just managed to sneak in.

When we see Ennis at the start of the movie, he is carrying a paper sack which presumably contains his spare shirt and nothing much else, since it's pretty small. At the end of their time on Brokeback, he's carrying a much larger canvas bag which seems to have quite a lot of stuff in it, but definitely does not contain his spare shirt since we know Jack takes that. So, what does that bag contain - and where did he get the bag anyway?

Also (and I know I said I only had one question and have already asked two) where does Ennis get the yellow rain jacket that he wears up on Brokeback, since the bag he takes up there is definitely not big enough for that?

Am I in the wrong thread here? Should these maybe be in the bloopers thread? Or does anyone have a reasonable explanation?

I've wondered about the yello9w jacket too, the only explanation I can think of is that maybe he borrowed it off someone after Jack told him about the storm

 

[chameau]

I've got another question - just dawned on me during the hour of the movie that I just managed to sneak in.

When we see Ennis at the start of the movie, he is carrying a paper sack which presumably contains his spare shirt and nothing much else, since it's pretty small. At the end of their time on Brokeback, he's carrying a much larger canvas bag which seems to have quite a lot of stuff in it, but definitely does not contain his spare shirt since we know Jack takes that. So, what does that bag contain - and where did he get the bag anyway?

Also (and I know I said I only had one question and have already asked two) where does Ennis get the yellow rain jacket that he wears up on Brokeback, since the bag he takes up there is definitely not big enough for that?

Am I in the wrong thread here? Should these maybe be in the bloopers thread? Or does anyone have a reasonable explanation?

I've wondered about the yello9w jacket too, the only explanation I can think of is that maybe he borrowed it off someone after Jack told him about the storm

 

The bag is an empty cotton flour bag he probably got from one of his Friday's grocery delivery, there is for sure an extra pair of jeans in it.

[stacp]

I've got another question - just dawned on me during the hour of the movie that I just managed to sneak in.

When we see Ennis at the start of the movie, he is carrying a paper sack which presumably contains his spare shirt and nothing much else, since it's pretty small. At the end of their time on Brokeback, he's carrying a much larger canvas bag which seems to have quite a lot of stuff in it, but definitely does not contain his spare shirt since we know Jack takes that. So, what does that bag contain - and where did he get the bag anyway?

Also (and I know I said I only had one question and have already asked two) where does Ennis get the yellow rain jacket that he wears up on Brokeback, since the bag he takes up there is definitely not big enough for that?

Am I in the wrong thread here? Should these maybe be in the bloopers thread? Or does anyone have a reasonable explanation?

I figure Aguirre gave them the rain jacket as part of the supplies that went with them up the mountain.  Maybe that's where he got the canvas bag, too, but as chameau said, the canvas bag probably came with the food supplies.

[stacp]

2.  Why in almost 20 years did Jack NEVER TELL ENNIS that he had taken his shirt from Brokeback?  How can anyone keep a secret like that, that long?  And why didn't he ever tell him?

Here's another one -- where did Ennis's second shirt come from?  Every single time we see him from the start of the movie, he's wearing the same shirt (*the* shirt).  It doesn't seem like they packed a lot of extra clothes for the summer, either, since we see Jack washing his out in the river naked.  Then, after the fight when they're coming down the mountain, suddenly Ennis has a new shirt that looks a lot like his
original one.  Jack is still wearing his blue shirt.  I didn't notice that Ennis's shirt was different at first, and really wondered how Jack got it off him to steal and keep, so I guess having his new shirt look as similar to the first one as possible was a conscious costuming decision.  I had to go back and verify that there was some sort of logical chance for Jack to get the shirt.  But if you only had one (or two I guess), wouldn't you keep a closer watch on where your clothes went? 

The shirt Ennis was wearing on the way down the mountain had more brown in it. He most likely changed the shirt before they came down because his was covered with blood. With all the confusion and Ennis' misery about ending their time on the mountain, he probably didn't notice what happened to the bloody shirt whuile he changed.

Another thing about the shirts that got to me was how the shirts were reversed. If I recall correctly, that was not mentioned in the short story, but was in the screenplay (I don't have the "Story to Screenplay" book handy to check). I think it expresses without words how close Jack held his love for Ennis hidden inside and protected and now that Jack was gone Ennis was holding Jack inside and protecting him.

Chrissy

Chrissy, that was beautiful.  About Ennis' brown/orange/checked shirt--he was wearing it during the FNIT, too.  You can see it peaking out from his jacket. 

Apparently, it was Heath Ledger's idea to switch the shirts at the end of the movie and put Ennis' shirt on the outside of Jack's.  I agree with you, Chrissy, that it was Ennis' way of protecting, loving and nurturing Jack, even after Jack's death.  Ennis' shirt is forever holding Jack's in that dozy embrace, which was Jack's favorite memory of he and Ennis.  :'(

[Patriot1]

I always thought Ennis had 3 shirts.  A brown plaid, the famous one, and a third that looked a lot like the famous one only it was a gray or gray/blue.  If you watch Jack as he is washing clothes or when the boys are cutting wood, it looks like Jack is washing the gray/blue one and Ennis is wearing the gray/blue one.

I don't know. Maybe my eyes are gone all fuzzy.  You guys have a look see and tell me.

[aileen]

My friend went to the small theatre in Spain and he told me:

1. The night before Jack and Ennis went up on Brekeback they spent in Jack's car talking - that scene was in spain version of the movie!!!

2. Two unfamiliar faces in the trailer - when Jack came back after one year and Aguirre told him he doesn' t have any job for HIM , Jack wanted to go away, but those two men cought him and beat.

PS. But the first tent scene was censored in Spain - it ended in the moment when Jack takes off the coat

[stacp]

I always thought Ennis had 3 shirts.  A brown plaid, the famous one, and a third that looked a lot like the famous one only it was a gray or gray/blue.  If you watch Jack as he is washing clothes or when the boys are cutting wood, it looks like Jack is washing the gray/blue one and Ennis is wearing the gray/blue one.

I don't know. Maybe my eyes are gone all fuzzy.  You guys have a look see and tell me.

Jack, I think, is washing the shirt that Ennis finds in the closet at the end (the whiter one).  I think Ennis is wearing the orange/brown/checked shirt while Jack is washing Ennis' lighter colored shirt.  I only counted two Ennis shirts when the boys were up on BBM.  But heck, it'll give me an excuse to watch the first 40 minutes again (like I need one!).

[NoReins]

stacp, I was just thinkin' the same. I only just watched the first hour last night too but I didn't think to count Ennis's shirts Wonder when I'll be able to fit in my next fix?

[Stephen]

My friend went to the small theatre in Spain and he told me:

1. The night before Jack and Ennis went up on Brekeback they spent in Jack's car talking - that scene was in spain version of the movie!!!

2. Two unfamiliar faces in the trailer - when Jack came back after one year and Aguirre told him he doesn' t have any job for HIM , Jack wanted to go away, but those two men cought him and beat.

PS. But the first tent scene was censored in Spain - it ended in the moment when Jack takes off the coat

I'm surprised to hear there are different versions of the film released!  Are there really some scenes in foreign releases that we don't see here in the USA?

[welshwitch]

Just realised I didn't say anything in response to the question,"Had he lived, would Jack have come back in November?"

Is it possible to doubt it? If he was thinking anything, I guess he died loving Ennis. Nobody would ever have superceded him in Jack's heart, because he's have gone on hoping as long as he'd gone on living. That's what love does.

[zelinda]

My friend went to the small theatre in Spain and he told me:

1. The night before Jack and Ennis went up on Brekeback they spent in Jack's car talking - that scene was in spain version of the movie!!!

2. Two unfamiliar faces in the trailer - when Jack came back after one year and Aguirre told him he doesn' t have any job for HIM , Jack wanted to go away, but those two men cought him and beat.

PS. But the first tent scene was censored in Spain - it ended in the moment when Jack takes off the coat

I can't believe they censored that scene in Spain! It is supposed to be a very liberal country, I don't understand why they did it...they have movies by Almodovar who have many scenes like that in them...
I have one more unanswered question: why in in opinion does Jack wait four years to look for Ennis?
By the way, this is my first post...nice to meet you all!

[NoReins]

I always thought Ennis had 3 shirts.  A brown plaid, the famous one, and a third that looked a lot like the famous one only it was a gray or gray/blue.  If you watch Jack as he is washing clothes or when the boys are cutting wood, it looks like Jack is washing the gray/blue one and Ennis is wearing the gray/blue one.

I don't know. Maybe my eyes are gone all fuzzy.  You guys have a look see and tell me.

Ok, I watched Ennis's shirts carefully last night and I'm certain he only has two: the "famous" blue/white one that he wears in SNIT and on their last day on Brokeback and the brown/orange one that he changes into after they fight, which is the same one that he's wearing during FNIT and the "morning after" (you can see the edge of the collar quite clearly both in the tent and when he's saddling up the horse as Jack comes out of the tent).

One thing I did think, though - if we're assuming that SNIT happens the day after FNIT, then at some point between the "one shot thing" conversation and the scene where Ennis is sitting at the fire trying to decide whether he's going to go to Jack or not, he changes his shirt. Logical, since he'd been wearing it during FNIT so it was probably, um, sweaty, but I bet that particular clothes change was about the most awkward ever

'Course, it could be another clue that SNIT did not happen the night after FNIT - guess I'll need to go watch the "one shot thing" scene again to see if I can see which shirt Ennis is wearing at that point. All in the name of clearing this particular question up, you understand
Jack, I think, is washing the shirt that Ennis finds in the closet at the end (the whiter one).  I think Ennis is wearing the orange/brown/checked shirt while Jack is washing Ennis' lighter colored shirt.  I only counted two Ennis shirts when the boys were up on BBM.  But heck, it'll give me an excuse to watch the first 40 minutes again (like I need one!).

[Patriot1]

The first 4 images are of the shirt I am talking about.  Notice the first two images the shirt has a blue color printed on white.   (More captions between images.)



The next two images are of Jack washing that shirt.  Notice it is blue checks printed on white.




Here is the brown plaid shirt.



And here is the famous yellow shirt. While it does have blue lines in it there isn't enough blue to make the shirt look blue as in the first 4 images.



With image evidence, would anyone say there were 3 shirts?

[NoReins]

Ah, ok Patriot1 - you're right. Thanks for the images to prove it (especially the ones of Jack washing the shirt )

Guess I'm going to have to watch even closer next time - the hardship

[Patriot1]

Ah, ok Patriot1 - you're right. Thanks for the images to prove it (especially the ones of Jack washing the shirt )

Guess I'm going to have to watch even closer next time - the hardship

Well, NoReins, the only reason I made a fuss over this is because now a message I wrote a long time ago and then had Ethan delete, just, in fact, may be true.  I thought I saw ennis wearing the blue/white shirt to Aguirre's.  If this is true, then the yellow shirt was in the bag when it came from Ennis' home.  And was in the bag when it returned to Ennis' home (albeit a different home). I just found this, for reasons I can not explain, fascinating. The shirt took a 20 year journey starting and ending in a paper sack.

[NoReins]

Actually, hang on a minute. In the scene on the mountain when they fought, Ennis was wearing the blue/white shirt was he not? Not one with yellow in it...



That was the shirt that got blood on it (obviously) so does that mean that the shirt with yellow in the photo that Patriot1 posted is the wrong shirt? Or is my eyesight really bad and Ennis is, in fact, wearing the shirt with yellow in it in the picture here?

[Sassenach]

That's weird  To me it seems like he was wearing just a blue/white shirt on the mountain, too.

So why is the shirt in the closet kinda yellow 

[Patriot1]

Actually, hang on a minute. In the scene on the mountain when they fought, Ennis was wearing the blue/white shirt was he not? Not one with yellow in it...



That was the shirt that got blood on it (obviously) so does that mean that the shirt with yellow in the photo that Patriot1 posted is the wrong shirt? Or is my eyesight really bad and Ennis is, in fact, wearing the shirt with yellow in it in the picture here?

A white shirt will turn yellow over the years and this one was in the closet for 20 years.  BUT, and it could be my eyesight, the blue lines in your image look wider than the ones on the yellow shirt.

But I can not imagine Ang or the property manager mixing the shirts up, can you?  This could all be an optical illusion.

[NoReins]

A white shirt will turn yellow over the years and this one was in the closet for 20 years.  BUT, and it could be my eyesight, the blue lines in your image look wider than the ones on the yellow shirt.

But I can not imagine Ang or the property manager mixing the shirts up, can you?  This could all be an optical illusion.

No optical illusion - the photo that you've posted of the shirts is not from the movie. Must just be a promotional shot. I've just watched the fight on the mountain, Ennis's discovery of the shirts and the final "Jack, I swear..." bit in order to check. The shirt that Ennis wears on the mountain is grey (or maybe light blue) and white - and is the same shirt he finds hanging inside Jack's and then has hanging in the closet. There is very definitely no yellow in it (even allowing for aging, the one you posted is not just two colours) - and the pattern is also different to the one in the shot you posted.

This is truly weird.....

[Patriot1]

No optical illusion - the photo that you've posted of the shirts is not from the movie. Must just be a promotional shot.

This is truly weird.....

No, no promo image either.  Here is a screencap from the movie.  The shirt I posted above is the same shirt they used in the movie.

Yes, very weird, isn't it.

[ande_nem]

Maybe the lighting's weird in that promo shot, and made the shirt look yellow???