Author Topic: When did they start to fall in love?  (Read 113019 times)

Offline alicat

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When did they start to fall in love?
« on: Feb 14, 2006, 01:48 PM »
I think it is difficult to tell as, due to time constraints, the film omits scenes in the build-up which could have provided clues. 

For me, Ennis falls quicker and harder than Jack;  I am assuming Ennis was already head over heels for Jack well before they slept together, judging by how he touched and kissed Jack on the second night - Ennis touched Jack as though he were made of gold, as if he was thinking, 'Lover, I don't ever want to let you go'.  I think with Jack, it is more difficult to tell.  But I think they were both pretty smitten on the evening they shared the whiskey, when Jack smiles and says 'That's the most words you've said these past two weeks.' And then proceeds to fall over and make Ennis laugh - priceless! 

I think as well that, although love was not instantaneous, the sexual attraction was. 

Any thoughts? 

Alicat xx
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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 14, 2006, 04:52 PM »
I think it happened pretty fast. For Jack it was at the time of the potato peeling, had he not been in love there, just lust, he woulda snuk a peak... for Ennis? hard to say, have to watch it again  :)
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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 14, 2006, 05:05 PM »
For me Ennis MUST have fallen for Jack before the 2nd night together. After the 1st night hes goes out to tend the sheep finding one of them killed (through his own actions), Ennis as we know is the pragmatist, and yet he leaves the sheep again to be with Jack-i find that contradictory to what i know of his character up to that point. He loves Jack 'sheep be damned'. I'm struggling to find an answer to when Jack fell for Ennis, hes so much more a demonstrative, open guy x

Offline Rønnaug

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 14, 2006, 05:10 PM »
Think this means the film have to bee seen againg at least a couple of times :)
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aimi15

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 14, 2006, 05:19 PM »
Think this means the film have to bee seen againg at least a couple of times :)
Me too! Any excuse! ;D

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 14, 2006, 07:45 PM »
They were obviously attracted to each other from the start..esp. in the trailer when Aguirre is on the phone. They were friendly, supportive, caring and funny with each other. As far as love goes, maybe not until the 2nd tent scene :'(..these characters were so young...
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Offline CherryCake

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 14, 2006, 09:33 PM »
Well, Ennis seems to be smitten because he wanted to make Jack happy by getting soup--which Ennis doesn't eat. One of the most touching love scenes to me was when the boys had to unmix the sheep.  Ennis the pragmatic and voice of reason reminds Jack that they might have to work for Aguirre again and that they need to stick it out.  Just the way he says : "We gotta stick it out Jack"  This is an obvious reference to their relationship as well.
I think Ennis fell in love quickly as he found companionship where none was expected in that Jack was fun, outgoing, nice to look at, and caring. When Jack sees Ennis bloody head, his "Ennis, what happened?" is delivered such a caring and loving way.
In short: Jack was hot for Ennis right away and found himself in love.  Ennis was the opposite.  He fell in love and was hot for Jack.
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2006, 06:31 PM by CherryCake »
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Offline jimnick

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 15, 2006, 10:04 AM »
Was there something there from the very beginning?  Were they drawn together, even while waiting outside the trailer?  When they were spending their first nights up the mountain and Jack was sleeping with the sheep, Ennis offered to trade jobs to make Jack happier.  They cook for eachother and share conversations.  Maybe they were drawn together without knowing.

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Offline Gokulo

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 15, 2006, 12:46 PM »
Yes, I too think that they got those *sparkles* from the very first moments they meet. But I think Ennis didn't really pay much attention to his feeling (as he is a type of person like that), but from Jack it's almost obvious.
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Offline alicat

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 15, 2006, 01:52 PM »
Thanks everyone for your (as usual) brilliant replies and observations...it has given me food for thought.  Just one query to whoever said that Jack not sneaking a look at Ennis getting washed meant he was in love rather than lust - why does this signify love? I am not disagreeing at all, just interested in how you came to that conclusion.  I sensed he very much WANTED to look, but he forced himself not to - it seemed almost like he could not bring himself to look as that would've triggered something in him which he was trying to suppress.  But I am interested in why this signifies more than sexual attraction. 

Alicat (who loves this board and all who post on her!)  ;D
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Offline Rønnaug

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 15, 2006, 02:24 PM »
Thanks everyone for your (as usual) brilliant replies and observations...it has given me food for thought.  Just one query to whoever said that Jack not sneaking a look at Ennis getting washed meant he was in love rather than lust - why does this signify love? I am not disagreeing at all, just interested in how you came to that conclusion.  I sensed he very much WANTED to look, but he forced himself not to - it seemed almost like he could not bring himself to look as that would've triggered something in him which he was trying to suppress.  But I am interested in why this signifies more than sexual attraction. 

Alicat (who loves this board and all who post on her!)  ;D

I think that was me. I just felt that he was trying so hard not to look so he wouldn't scare Ennis if Ennis saw him looking. If it was just lust he wouldn't have cared. i just know that the more I like a man the more I try to hide it before I know what he feels for me. If I lust after a man then I go straight for him  ;)
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Offline kcristob

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15, 2006, 02:35 PM »
I think infatuation happens very quickly.  From the very moment that Jack says "your folks stop at Ennis?" I feel like Jack is teasing in a way that Ennis isn't used to, and I think Ennis likes it.  Also Jack's kind of clumsy bravado (getting the horse that "can't" buck him), ineffective shots etc -- I think Ennis kind of likes that about him.  It makes him smile. 

There is a reason beyond the fact that they were the only two stuck up there that they fell for each other.  I believe Jack teases out personality that Ennis doesn't even know he has.  I mean who doesn't love the person that makes us different in a good way than we thought we were (sorry, I'm getting really inarticulate).  Jack makes Ennis TRANSCEND himself.  I suspect he's more thoughtful (getting the soup, shooting meat because Jack won't eat beans), laughs more, talks more, shares himself.  Throw in incredible sex, and you get LOVE.

Offline alicat

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 15, 2006, 03:02 PM »
I think infatuation happens very quickly.  From the very moment that Jack says "your folks stop at Ennis?" I feel like Jack is teasing in a way that Ennis isn't used to, and I think Ennis likes it.  Also Jack's kind of clumsy bravado (getting the horse that "can't" buck him), ineffective shots etc -- I think Ennis kind of likes that about him.  It makes him smile. 

There is a reason beyond the fact that they were the only two stuck up there that they fell for each other.  I believe Jack teases out personality that Ennis doesn't even know he has.  I mean who doesn't love the person that makes us different in a good way than we thought we were (sorry, I'm getting really inarticulate).  Jack makes Ennis TRANSCEND himself.  I suspect he's more thoughtful (getting the soup, shooting meat because Jack won't eat beans), laughs more, talks more, shares himself.  Throw in incredible sex, and you get LOVE.

Hi Kristob,

A great description which helps explain things for me.  I do see that Ennis started to love Jack, as he asked for soup etc and he shot the animal (cos Jack wouldn't eat beans).  I agree that is was the things which made Ennis transcend himself which made him love Jack: he was very inarticulate and very serious, which Jack was not - Jack sang songs and joked around and Ennis responded to that and I think that made Ennis warm to Jack.  But it is the second tent scene which I feel really shows Ennis's love: after their first sex, Ennis said, 'I ain't no queer' yet he goes into the tent on the second nigh and holds and kisses Jack as though he is the most precious thing on earth.  I love that scene because it shows that, despite his protestations, he is very much in love. 
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Offline kcristob

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 15, 2006, 04:30 PM »
But it is the second tent scene which I feel really shows Ennis's love: after their first sex, Ennis said, 'I ain't no queer' yet he goes into the tent on the second nigh and holds and kisses Jack as though he is the most precious thing on earth.  I love that scene because it shows that, despite his protestations, he is very much in love.   

Right.

I think that is when the love really starts.  The infatuation is the teasing, frolicking fun.  But I think you are right, it is when Ennis FINALLY allows himself to be vulnerable (probably for the first time in his life) that the relationship turns to love.  Isn't that much of what love is?  Letting others see our vulnerability.  Trusting them to handle with care?  It's a beautiful beautiful scene.  Sweet, loving, caring, kind.  More perfection.

Offline alicat

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 15, 2006, 04:38 PM »
But it is the second tent scene which I feel really shows Ennis's love: after their first sex, Ennis said, 'I ain't no queer' yet he goes into the tent on the second nigh and holds and kisses Jack as though he is the most precious thing on earth.  I love that scene because it shows that, despite his protestations, he is very much in love.   

Right.

I think that is when the love really starts.  The infatuation is the teasing, frolicking fun.  But I think you are right, it is when Ennis FINALLY allows himself to be vulnerable (probably for the first time in his life) that the relationship turns to love.  Isn't that much of what love is?  Letting others see our vulnerability.  Trusting them to handle with care?  It's a beautiful beautiful scene.  Sweet, loving, caring, kind.  More perfection.

Kcristob,

Your words made me cry  :( 

I do think also that Ennis felt love from that moment on - that is when he let himself be vulnerable for probably the first time ever.  Which makes me want to ask you this: do you think it would have been possible for Ennis to fall for someone else he was on Brokeback with (assuming that person was similar to Jack in terms of personality).  I guess what I am yearning to know is: is it possible that Ennis fell for the 'idea' or 'package' of love and that could have been anyone who was available and attractive at that time? I don't just mean anyone would do, but I guess I mean, was Ennis really in love with Jack, or more in love with the idea of Jack, the acceptance and total love which Jack offered him...  i hope you understand what i am asking.lol I am not even sure if i understand my own question. 

Alicat xx
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Offline kcristob

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 15, 2006, 06:26 PM »
  Which makes me want to ask you this: do you think it would have been possible for Ennis to fall for someone else he was on Brokeback with (assuming that person was similar to Jack in terms of personality).  I guess what I am yearning to know is: is it possible that Ennis fell for the 'idea' or 'package' of love and that could have been anyone who was available and attractive at that time? I don't just mean anyone would do, but I guess I mean, was Ennis really in love with Jack, or more in love with the idea of Jack, the acceptance and total love which Jack offered him...  i hope you understand what i am asking.lol I am not even sure if i understand my own question. 

Alicat xx

I think that is a very good question.  I'm certainly no expert on the subject (although at the rate that I continue to see this movie, I may be eventually).  And, my own personal philosophy is that there often is more than just one true love in a lifetime.  I've been lucky enough (and I mean that) to experience "it" more than once.  so that colors my answer:

The short answer is "yes."  I think Ennis probably could have fallen in love with another.  But certainly not just anyone.  And, your question about whether Ennis was in love with Jack - again YES!  Jack had what it took to bring Ennis to love.  There was that unique combination that was Jack" and Jack had something Ennis needed [playfulness, passion, openness, honesty, vulnerability].  And we know that Ennis NEVER strayed from jack (while the same isn't true for Jack).  In fact, it could be said that Ennis strayed FOR Jack (from his marriage).  Very loyal.

"the acceptance and total love which Jack offered him"  That's part of it.  I also think that it is what Jack managed to get Ennis to offer HIM that resonated with Ennis.  I doubt if too many people on the planet could have gotten Ennis to be vulnerable with them.

But, having said yes about the possibility of Ennis falling in love with another, I do want to say that my belief is that he was pretty much heterosexual.  I think he was a straight man who fell in love with another man.  So, I don't think being on the mountain with a man was particularly compelling for Ennis.  It was being with Jack!  Just my opinion.

Sorry moderators, I think I got a bit off topic!

Offline Allan

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 15, 2006, 06:52 PM »
I think Ms. Proulx makes the moment of falling in love in the story pretty clear, at least from Ennis' point of view.  Please especially note the last sentence of this passage:

They had a high-time supper by the fire, a can of beans each, fried potatoes, and a quart of whiskey on shares, sat with their backs against a log, boot soles and copper jeans rivets hot, swapping the bottle while the lavender sky emptied of color and the chill air drained down, drinking, smoking cigarettes, getting up every now and then to piss, firelight throwing a sparkle in the arched stream, tossing sticks on the fire to keep the talk going, talking horses and rodeo, rough-stock events, wrecks and injuries sustained, the submarine Thresher lost two months earlier with all hands and how it must have been in the last doomed minutes, dogs each had owned and known, the military service, Jack’s home ranch, where his father and mother held on, Ennis’s family place, folded years ago after his folks died, the older brother in Signal and a married sister in Casper. Jack said his father had been a pretty well-known bull rider years back but kept his secrets to himself, never gave Jack a word of advice, never came once to see Jack ride, though he had put him on the woollies when he was a little kid. Ennis said the kind of riding that interested him lasted longer than eight seconds and had some point to it. Money’s a good point, said Jack, and Ennis had to agree. They were respectful of each other’s opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected. Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken light, thought he’d never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Good Lord that woman can write.  Allan


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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 16, 2006, 07:59 PM »
I think the air was crackling from the first frame of the movie, but neither of them knew what was going on.  They tried the usual cowboy buddy approach, but the first "high altitude f*ck", a fairly common way for gay men to say "I like you", opened the door to real romantic love.  The real love comes fast - a really short road to "lil darlin".

I've thought, too, about their mating rituals - pretty foreign stuff to an urban guy like me - which probably adds to the romance of the film.  Hunting?  I couldn't tell an elk from a taxicab!

JB  :D


Offline Rønnaug

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 17, 2006, 03:14 AM »
I couldn't tell an elk from a taxicab!

JB  :D


Ouch....I hope you check before trying to ride the elk.....
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Offline BBBOY

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 17, 2006, 09:36 PM »
I think Ms. Proulx makes the moment of falling in love in the story pretty clear, at least from Ennis' point of view.

Good Lord that woman can write.  Allan

Amen bro, she is awesome. She puts into a few words what others take pages to tell.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken darken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Offline ragtimecowboy

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 18, 2006, 10:55 PM »
The seeds of their 20 year love were sown right after they were hired at the bar. They were watered by laughter, smiles, shared common experiences, and yes, even tears. It was tended by both each in their own way, and it flourished despite great adversities. It endured.

Offline jagrafess

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 20, 2006, 03:05 PM »
I reckon there was an attraction on behalf of Jack the moment he laid eyes on Ennis. 

But I think Love entered the equation about the time Ennis opened up to Jack around the fire, and finally said "That's more than I've said in years".  At that point I think Jack had really gotten to Ennis and they were both enjoying each other.  My heart likes to think that Ennis had never opened up to anyone before, and his smirk hints at him taking quite pleasure in letting Jack know the details of his past.  He knows (or at least hopes) that Jack will interpret his candour as a sign of his growing affection/trust, and in a cute kind of way I believe this is Ennis making "the first move".  From that point on, I think sexual contact is inevitable.  Jack may not have been so bold as to put Ennis hand on his erection otherwise. 

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Offline lachlan

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 24, 2007, 07:52 AM »
Don't forget that this was Jack's second summer working for Aguirre on Brokeback and that they always worked in pairs. I reckon that Jack had some sexual experiences with his partner during the previous year and assumes that the same will happen again wioth the new one.  That would explain the was he checks out Ennis on first meeting.  When he grabs Ennis' hand in the tent and pulls it to his erection, he's probably repeating what was done to him the year before. Ennis, typical of a lad his age sleeping with another, obviously has an erection too. Although he pulls away from Jack the moment he's startled in awareness, he very soon grasps Jack's head in a fairly intimate way. He may well have been dreaming of a sexual encounter despite himself. Therefore he's ready to ride.
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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #23 on: Feb 24, 2007, 09:10 AM »
^^You make some very excellent points, lachlan.  Perhaps Jack did have a sexual experience with the person from the previous summer.  It would make sense, for the reasons you stated.
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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #24 on: Feb 25, 2007, 10:04 AM »
No wonder Jack had that a look of anticipation.

He did, didn't he? 
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Offline BBBOY

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #25 on: Feb 25, 2007, 09:00 PM »
I reckon there was an attraction on behalf of Jack the moment he laid eyes on Ennis. 

But I think Love entered the equation about the time Ennis opened up to Jack around the fire, and finally said "That's more than I've said in years".  At that point I think Jack had really gotten to Ennis and they were both enjoying each other.  My heart likes to think that Ennis had never opened up to anyone before, and his smirk hints at him taking quite pleasure in letting Jack know the details of his past.  He knows (or at least hopes) that Jack will interpret his candour as a sign of his growing affection/trust, and in a cute kind of way I believe this is Ennis making "the first move".  From that point on, I think sexual contact is inevitable.  Jack may not have been so bold as to put Ennis hand on his erection otherwise. 



Good point
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken darken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Offline tpe

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #26 on: Feb 26, 2007, 08:29 AM »

As obvious as the pitched tent in Jacks trousers !!!

E-U-R-E-K-A !!! I believe I have stumbled on a whole new thread to present to the board members to ponder.

Example......

When Ennis is inspecting the tent which Jack assembled,then remarks  "Something don't seem rawght".Does it symbolize and prefigure Ennis thoughts the moment he awakens to find his hand on Jacks pitched tent?

Does the pup tent( Versus a full tent) surrounded by snow symbolize Ennis limpness because his paradise with Jack is about to end?.................... ;D

I am not so sure if any symbolism was intended in those scenes, but it is quite tempting to read something in each of them. 

The "Tent don't seem right" scene and the beautiful snow scene does seem to prefigure things to come.  I assume that they had already started to fall in love before those scenes, and so each of them may be read in a way that would reflect some internal state of mind.

I certainly thought that the "tend don't seem right" does seem to invite a connection with thwe FNIT, and the snow scene of course preceded their premature departure from the Mountain...


Offline welshwitch

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #27 on: Feb 26, 2007, 11:43 AM »
Certainly for me at least the scene after the encounter with the bear shows an emotion beyond mere liking or friendship, when Jack goes to clean up Ennis's face. That sems to be a lover-like gesture.

Offline tpe

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #28 on: Feb 26, 2007, 04:17 PM »
Hiya friend tpe !!
I did understand those scenes had deeper meaning to them.Honestly though, I thought my comment above didn't warrent a reply and certainly wasn't going to garner more than a chuckle since what I said was in jest.

Just the same tpe..Its restful assurance members can rely on you and  feel thier comments will be validated no matter how minor they feel they may be.

 

HiAltShag , I am sure we are not the only ones here who felt the same way about these scenes.  It's just interesting to note that we sense similar affinities in these scenes.  In fact, I would wager that most of the nuances that hint at their budding love were seen and appreciated by the majority here.  :)


Offline aintfoolin

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Re: When did they start to fall in love?
« Reply #29 on: Mar 07, 2007, 04:09 PM »
Wow, another great topic. I think when Jack first saw Ennis, his mind screamed Ho-lee Shit! Who's this? Then tried to play it off. He soon found out about Ennis's quiet manner and backed off as not to be so obvious or not to scare him off, but I think he was at least smitten from the very beginning.
Ennis on the other hand showed his true colors during the bucking horse scene. That stare as Jack tried to get the horse under control was telling + that lean over to watch Jack ride out left no doubt that Ennis liked what he saw. By the time of the bear scene/nursing Ennis ,Jack was already in love.
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