Topic: When did they start to fall in love?

[myprivatejack]

You explained yourself perfectly well, honestly, your english is amazing.    I dont know how I would be able to convey my feelings in another language, so you are doing great. 

It is hard to put things into words about feelings....and I think for someone like Ennis, who hardly talks at all, imagine how it must have been for him to have been hit by this thunderbolt of true love, standing in front him, and in the form of a man, no less?  When I watch the scene outside Aguirre's trailer, I wonder what thoughts are going through Ennis's mind, what is he thinking, what is he feeling when he peeks out from under his hat to look at Jack?  I bet his heart was pounding anyway.

Chris¡ Well,as a matter of fact,I always say that I'm not explaining well in order you can answer that it's not true...ehem¡.Speaking seriously,it must have been difficult for Ennis not only for his difficulties in expressing himself; but above all for his difficulties in accepting himself as he was,not to speak but to FEEL...But I don't know if Ennis felt so shocked in the trailer's scene,do you think so?;I've always thought he felt uneasy for Jack's boldness,an unknown boy who looked at him so directly  .But I don't think that he felt specially attracted or stuff,perhaps he liked him more or less,but he couldn't allow himself it in that moment.Maybe I'm wrong.

[christie wood]

Chris¡ Well,as a matter of fact,I always say that I'm not explaining well in order you can answer that it's not true...ehem¡.Speaking seriously,it must have been difficult for Ennis not only for his difficulties in expressing himself; but above all for his difficulties in accepting himself as he was,not to speak but to FEEL...But I don't know if Ennis felt so shocked in the trailer's scene,do you think so?;I've always thought he felt uneasy for Jack's boldness,an unknown boy who looked at him so directly  .But I don't think that he felt specially attracted or stuff,perhaps he liked him more or less,but he couldn't allow himself it in that moment.Maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldnt say you were wrong, or I am right - we dont know how Ennis was really feeling because there are no words and we dont hear what Ennis is thinking.  I am only wishing that Ennis's heart was pounding away. sometimes it does that, when something is happening that is unusual, or exciting, but you dont know why.   I agree though, that Ennis was probably feeling uneasy, with Jack's bold presence in front of him - I love how Jack walks towards Ennis, almost willing Ennis to look up at him.  But that could excite you too, right? Even if you dont have a clue why.

[myprivatejack]

I wouldnt say you were wrong, or I am right - we dont know how Ennis was really feeling because there are no words and we dont hear what Ennis is thinking.  I am only wishing that Ennis's heart was pounding away. sometimes it does that, when something is happening that is unusual, or exciting, but you dont know why.   I agree though, that Ennis was probably feeling uneasy, with Jack's bold presence in front of him - I love how Jack walks towards Ennis, almost willing Ennis to look up at him.  But that could excite you too, right? Even if you dont have a clue why.

Completely agree...

[tpe]

Thanks mpj, I'm glad what I said made some sense to you! I get so caught up in the emotions of the film, I'm not sure I'm expressing myself well.

I echo MPJ, christie.  You did express yourself well -- even if one is not necessarily a romantic. 

[tpe]

I am only wishing that Ennis's heart was pounding away. sometimes

Interesting -- I did wish the same thing.

I do think that he was a bit unnerved, but perhaps he was also unnerved at his own inner reactions at that moment -- was he perhaps a bit uncomfortable with them?

[athena0204]

I love the idea of love at first sight too, me being a complete romantic.  I'd like to believe it was love at first sight for Ennis and Jack, but I'm not sure....I certainly think there was a connection, a spark, something they couldnt quite articulate (especially Ennis), and as time went on, that thing between them grew, stronger and stronger, until they realised.  So maybe, on thinking back,they both, if they'd been able to say it, knew that as soon as they saw the other, a fire had started, and it never went out.  I think it was a slow burning thing.....I think too that Jack was able to allow himself to think he was in love with Ennis far sooner than Ennis ever could.  I'm not saying Ennis didnt feel that, he was just so repressed there is no way he would admit that to himself.  Thats why we see him use anger as a way of expressing is feelings - anger when he sees Jack putting the tent down, anger when Jack tells him its time to go, anger when Jack has gone.  I think we can safely assume that at this stage, the anger Ennis is feeling is his love for Jack Twist.

It's obvious from the way Jack looks at him and then looks down again, shyly, and then when he introduces himself, shaking hands, saying, "Jack Twist,"
to wich Ennis replies, "Ennis", and then Jack smiles and playfully says, "Your folks just stop at Ennis?" I think that was just one of the cutest things ever. The way they are looking at each other shyly really tells that there is something deep there, from the beginning, when they first laid eyes on each other. Immediately after, when they go to the bar, Ennis does this amazing thing when he opens up to Jack. I think it's obvious that Ennis wouldn't just tell his life's story to anyone, that Jack was probably the first person he'd ever told it to. I feel they both, from very early on, knew the feelings they had for each other. Ennis knew...otherwise he wouldn't have walked into the tent in the second scene. Ennis is a person who built a wall around himself, to protect himself from this cruel world. At first he appears to have this cool demeanor, he appears like he doesn't care, he has this hard-to-read expression on his face, but inside, he's a very sensitive, very emotional person. Behind that wall, Ennis is a very kind-hearted, loving, tender, caring, gentle soul, but he just doesn't show it to many people because he can't trust most people. Jack breaks down that wall, for when Ennis is around Jack, Ennis is just free to be himself. Throughout all those years, it is only when he and Jack are alone together that the wall comes down. Jack knew this about Ennis, and Ennis knew this about himself.

[christie wood]

It's obvious from the way Jack looks at him and then looks down again, shyly, and then when he introduces himself, shaking hands, saying, "Jack Twist,"
to wich Ennis replies, "Ennis", and then Jack smiles and playfully says, "Your folks just stop at Ennis?" I think that was just one of the cutest things ever. The way they are looking at each other shyly really tells that there is something deep there, from the beginning, when they first laid eyes on each other. Immediately after, when they go to the bar, Ennis does this amazing thing when he opens up to Jack. I think it's obvious that Ennis wouldn't just tell his life's story to anyone, that Jack was probably the first person he'd ever told it to. I feel they both, from very early on, knew the feelings they had for each other. Ennis knew...otherwise he wouldn't have walked into the tent in the second scene. Ennis is a person who built a wall around himself, to protect himself from this cruel world. At first he appears to have this cool demeanor, he appears like he doesn't care, he has this hard-to-read expression on his face, but inside, he's a very sensitive, very emotional person. Behind that wall, Ennis is a very kind-hearted, loving, tender, caring, gentle soul, but he just doesn't show it to many people because he can't trust most people. Jack breaks down that wall, for when Ennis is around Jack, Ennis is just free to be himself. Throughout all those years, it is only when he and Jack are alone together that the wall comes down. Jack knew this about Ennis, and Ennis knew this about himself.

I love that.....and its so true.   Well said, I couldnt have expressed as good as that!

[christie wood]

Interesting -- I did wish the same thing.

I do think that he was a bit unnerved, but perhaps he was also unnerved at his own inner reactions at that moment -- was he perhaps a bit uncomfortable with them?

Probably.  He probably didnt expect Jack to get out of his truck and be so brazen....I remember watching that scene for the first time, and thinking "wow, look at him, he's checking Ennis out."  That's why I love the little peeks Ennis gives Jack,when he thinks Jack isnt looking....he's probably thinking "I cant look" but then looks anyway.

[tpe]

Probably.  He probably didnt expect Jack to get out of his truck and be so brazen....I remember watching that scene for the first time, and thinking "wow, look at him, he's checking Ennis out."  That's why I love the little peeks Ennis gives Jack,when he thinks Jack isnt looking....he's probably thinking "I cant look" but then looks anyway.

Ennis's peeks were certainly bashful -- as if he felt the heat of Jack's gaze falling on him.

[athena0204]

The look on Ennis' face when he sees Jack for the first time in four years, and how he smiles, runs down to him and kisses him so passionately, tell me that these two were in love since the day they'd met. It's clear to see that there hasn't been a day that's gone by in the past four years that Ennis hasn't thought of Jack. They'd both been thinking of each other constantly since the day they parted ways, and felt like they were in heaven when they were reunited.

[christie wood]

The look on Ennis' face when he sees Jack for the first time in four years, and how he smiles, runs down to him and kisses him so passionately, tell me that these two were in love since the day they'd met. It's clear to see that there hasn't been a day that's gone by in the past four years that Ennis hasn't thought of Jack. They'd both been thinking of each other constantly since the day they parted ways, and felt like they were in heaven when they were reunited.

I love how you describe their reunion athena...really beautiful and vivid.  I get goosebumps thinking about it.  I cant argue with you when you say they have probably been thinking of each other ever since they parted ways.....men dont hug other men like that, not even fishing buddies.

[athena0204]

I love how you describe their reunion athena...really beautiful and vivid.  I get goosebumps thinking about it.  I cant argue with you when you say they have probably been thinking of each other ever since they parted ways.....men dont hug other men like that, not even fishing buddies.

As soon as Ennis hears the sound of Jack's truck, he runs up to the window and then runs down to him with a smile of the purest joy. And that passionate kiss says it all...they had the truest, deepest love possible, and they knew it.

[christie wood]

As soon as Ennis hears the sound of Jack's truck, he runs up to the window and then runs down to him with a smile of the purest joy. And that passionate kiss says it all...they had the truest, deepest love possible, and they knew it.

God, you are giving me goosebumps!! I love to re-live that moment.  I love how he takes the steps about 5 at a time - he couldnt get to Jack quick enough if he tried.   

[Matt Nasty]

im gonna be the sap in this topic and say im pretty sure they started to fall in love as soon as they shuck hands after coming out of aguires trailer for the first time i could just kind off see the way they both looked they had that look in theire eyes so sweet 

[athena0204]

im gonna be the sap in this topic and say im pretty sure they started to fall in love as soon as they shuck hands after coming out of aguires trailer for the first time i could just kind off see the way they both looked they had that look in theire eyes so sweet 

Yeah, they fell in love right then and there, from when they first saw each other, and they were shyly stealing glances at each other. That's how true love happens, my friend. 

[Matt Nasty]

Yeah, they fell in love right then and there, from when they first saw each other, and they were shyly stealing glances at each other. That's how true love happens, my friend. 

  yup  awwwwww its so sweet

[B_Mountain_Girl]

Yeah, they fell in love right then and there, from when they first saw each other, and they were shyly stealing glances at each other. That's how true love happens, my friend. 

Love at firs sight?

I too believe they fell in love right then and there. I can't get over Ennis checking out Jack as soon as he turned his back.

[christie wood]

im gonna be the sap in this topic and say im pretty sure they started to fall in love as soon as they shuck hands after coming out of aguires trailer for the first time i could just kind off see the way they both looked they had that look in theire eyes so sweet 

That's not being a sap thats just how you see it....like I've said before, I love the idea of love at first sight but I'm not sure it was, completely, but I do believe they were both struck with something, a feeling that this was somehow different to something they'd ever felt before.  I suppose you could argue that could be love?

[athena0204]

Love at firs sight?

I too believe they fell in love right then and there. I can't get over Ennis checking out Jack as soon as he turned his back.

I love how they looked at each other. From the moment they saw each other, they knew this was true love, it was something that found them when they least expected it.

[Matt Nasty]

I love how they looked at each other. From the moment they saw each other, they knew this was true love, it was something that found them when they least expected it.

yup its so beautiful  i just wish things had been better and easier for them

[myprivatejack]

That's not being a sap thats just how you see it....like I've said before, I love the idea of love at first sight but I'm not sure it was, completely, but I do believe they were both struck with something, a feeling that this was somehow different to something they'd ever felt before.  I suppose you could argue that could be love?

I'm afraid to be the most prosaic of you all,but I agree with what you say,Chris; it's nice to think in love at first sight,but it's more realistic to believe-as you and me do-in "something",call it attraction,call it emphaty,called how you can or want...    True and deep love only can be so with a basis,as I said in another post;they had this basis only by sharing their loneliness and trust,their duties and leisure time,and a lot of moments when they saw they're different,but complementaries.That they were able to give the other what he was lacked to,what they didn't get in their unpleasant family life until that moment...
What's more,I believe that from the very moment he saw Ennis,Jack was thinking in having "something" with him,in a mere sexual way ;but he was kind of "the fished fisher"-I don't know if this makes sense...-and he fell in love more than he could believed before.IMHO.

[athena0204]

I'm afraid to be the most prosaic of you all,but I agree with what you say,Chris; it's nice to think in love at first sight,but it's more realistic to believe-as you and me do-in "something",call it attraction,call it emphaty,called how you can or want...    True and deep love only can be so with a basis,as I said in another post;they had this basis only by sharing their loneliness and trust,their duties and leisure time,and a lot of moments when they saw they're different,but complementaries.That they were able to give the other what he was lacked to,what they didn't get in their unpleasant family life until that moment...
What's more,I believe that from the very moment he saw Ennis,Jack was thinking in having "something" with him,in a mere sexual way ;but he was kind of "the fished fisher"-I don't know if this makes sense...-and he fell in love more than he could believed before.IMHO.

Well, I believe they did fall in love at first sight, but as for when they actually realized they had found true love...I think Jack realized it very soon, on the first day they met, because true love happens like that, it comes out of nowhere. As for when Ennis realized it...it was before the second tent scene. He had realized it partially before, when he first met Jack, but when he decided to walk into that tent and be with Jack...he knew completely that it was true love. From the moment they saw each other outside the trailer, they felt something, at first perhaps it seemed inexplicable, but they quickly realized that it wasn't just mere attraction, it was indeed true love. Their bond was deep from the beginning. You can tell from how Jack talked to Ennis, and how quickly Ennis opened up to him and told him his life's story. That was the first time Ennis had revealed details about his life and himself to anyone, so he must have felt a lot of trust, he already felt that Jack understood him. These boys had that deep bond right from the start. They were meant for each other and destiny brought them together that day outside Aguirre's trailer. I wish that destiny had kept them together, and they had never parted ways. And it would have been like that, if only society wasn't so cruel and ignorant. But I know that though they were apart all those years, they were always in each other's hearts, and their love remained strong, because it was the truest love. And I hope after they left this earthly life, they would be forever young and free and happy, in a place much better than this world, a place with no cruelty and despair, they would be forever together in heaven. 

[Matt Nasty]

Well, I believe they did fall in love at first sight, but as for when they actually realized they had found true love...I think Jack realized it very soon, on the first day they met, because true love happens like that, it comes out of nowhere. As for when Ennis realized it...it was before the second tent scene. He had realized it partially before, when he first met Jack, but when he decided to walk into that tent and be with Jack...he knew completely that it was true love. From the moment they saw each other outside the trailer, they felt something, at first perhaps it seemed inexplicable, but they quickly realized that it wasn't just mere attraction, it was indeed true love. Their bond was deep from the beginning. You can tell from how Jack talked to Ennis, and how quickly Ennis opened up to him and told him his life's story. That was the first time Ennis had revealed details about his life and himself to anyone, so he must have felt a lot of trust, he already felt that Jack understood him. These boys had that deep bond right from the start. They were meant for each other and destiny brought them together that day outside Aguirre's trailer. I wish that destiny had kept them together, and they had never parted ways. And it would have been like that, if only society wasn't so cruel and ignorant. But I know that though they were apart all those years, they were always in each other's hearts, and their love remained strong, because it was the truest love. And I hope after they left this earthly life, they would be forever young and free and happy, in a place much better than this world, a place with no cruelty and despair, they would be forever together in heaven. 

hmm i agree with this good post.
as i said before i beleive the first time the laid eyes on each other the love was there i think if love is there its there its in the sould and that you can fall in love with some when you first see them even if your brain doesnt realise at first.
sorry if that made no sense

[christie wood]

Well, I believe they did fall in love at first sight, but as for when they actually realized they had found true love...I think Jack realized it very soon, on the first day they met, because true love happens like that, it comes out of nowhere. As for when Ennis realized it...it was before the second tent scene. He had realized it partially before, when he first met Jack, but when he decided to walk into that tent and be with Jack...he knew completely that it was true love. From the moment they saw each other outside the trailer, they felt something, at first perhaps it seemed inexplicable, but they quickly realized that it wasn't just mere attraction, it was indeed true love. Their bond was deep from the beginning. You can tell from how Jack talked to Ennis, and how quickly Ennis opened up to him and told him his life's story. That was the first time Ennis had revealed details about his life and himself to anyone, so he must have felt a lot of trust, he already felt that Jack understood him. These boys had that deep bond right from the start. They were meant for each other and destiny brought them together that day outside Aguirre's trailer. I wish that destiny had kept them together, and they had never parted ways. And it would have been like that, if only society wasn't so cruel and ignorant. But I know that though they were apart all those years, they were always in each other's hearts, and their love remained strong, because it was the truest love. And I hope after they left this earthly life, they would be forever young and free and happy, in a place much better than this world, a place with no cruelty and despair, they would be forever together in heaven. 

See, I read your post and just love all the things you say about falling in love on sight - but then I read mpj's post, and agree with her's too! 

I suppose, for me, it comes down to wanting to believe it was love at first sight, but probably thinking that they definitely had a connection, something they couldnt name, and eventually that something was given a name - love.  I think you're right about what happens at the time of SNIT....Ennis debating whether to go in, and then finally giving in to his feelings, says in actions what he couldnt say in words....he was in love with Jack then.

[myprivatejack]

See, I read your post and just love all the things you say about falling in love on sight - but then I read mpj's post, and agree with her's too! 

I suppose, for me, it comes down to wanting to believe it was love at first sight, but probably thinking that they definitely had a connection, something they couldnt name, and eventually that something was given a name - love.  I think you're right about what happens at the time of SNIT....Ennis debating whether to go in, and then finally giving in to his feelings, says in actions what he couldnt say in words....he was in love with Jack then.

I keep on insisting-thanks,Chris...-because I don't believe so much in love at first sight as you; it could be, because nothing is already said,read,heard or LIVED in Love's questions,right?.   But I wonder if maybe we're all confusing facts like Ennis opening in the beginning as love,when for me it's a kind of good vibration,empathy,sympathy,chemistry...Yes,Athena,of course it's a bond,something intangible who united them,something that opened the door to what would be named LOVE afterwards...with the coexistence and the sharing,with the basis a lost lasting love must have.MHO.

[athena0204]

I keep on insisting-thanks,Chris...-because I don't believe so much in love at first sight as you; it could be, because nothing is already said,read,heard or LIVED in Love's questions,right?.   But I wonder if maybe we're all confusing facts like Ennis opening in the beginning as love,when for me it's a kind of good vibration,empathy,sympathy,chemistry...Yes,Athena,of course it's a bond,something intangible who united them,something that opened the door to what would be named LOVE afterwards...with the coexistence and the sharing,with the basis a lost lasting love must have.MHO.

They fell in love when they first saw each other, but yes, it was something inexplicable, intangible on that first day. They had this deep bond from the beginning they couldn't explain, their souls had a deep connection, and of course they didn't immediately know it was true love from the first day...but that's what it was. They definitely knew they liked each other very much from the moment they met. And they would very soon realize what it was, that it was pure, true love. Jack realized it from the first few days, and Ennis realized it before he walked into that tent on the second night.

[aintfoolin]

I feel it was attraction, friendship and love in that order.

 The attraction and friendship were the basis on which the love could potentially grow. Love at first sight is a romantic notion. Indeed we seem to have true hopeless romantics here, but looks  can be decieving, there had to be something about Jack that some one like  Ennis can grasp onto other than good looks.. Jack was gorgeous, yes but what was it about Jack that could make  Ennis  feel this way and over ride his fear of attraction for another man?? Jack, a very giving person was generous with his  *goofy,charmin,* down to earth personality. Jack, non-threatening and unspoiled, gentle and concerned.. Ennis had very low self-esteem and Jack was non-judgemental of that, giving Ennis more courage to open up.. Once Jack gained Ennis's trust, the walls came down.

 Had Jack had a different personality, say arrogant , selfish ,homophobic, and overbearing, of course this would have never worked out. They did'nt clash, instead, the fit together like hand in glove. The chemistry, eventually off the page. Ennis falls in love with the essence of Jack, the person Jack was, once he got to know him.  Jack's ability to make him feel that he was included in his world.  The fact that Jack was a man, should have been a hindrance in Ennis's phyche. In stead he is drawn to Jack in large part because he ...is ...well just ..Jack. who happens to be a man.   Nothing and no one else was gonna do. With Jack ,Ennis learned what true love was, but Jack had to  openly show Ennis who he was first, in order for Ennis to fall in love with him.

 I just don't feel that Ennis and Jack took one  look at each other that day in front of Aguirre's trailor and said * I love that man*., or * I'm in love with him*  Don't think it's that simple.  Sometimes loves has the element of surprise,  Only after sufficient complementary doses of each other do I feel that, suddenly, they discover they're in love with each other. In SNIT I feel Ennis is seeking some kind of confirmation  concerning what he was feeling. He finds it in Jack's eyes. To me Ennis's  eyes are  shyly searching Jack's  for answers and discovers love there. could it be true? , Jack's eyes answer  yeah,  it is true Ennis ,guess what? Were in love and knowingly seals it with a  kiss. The journey of discovery  becomes complete and niether can deny  that something  special had transpired between them that is beyond mere attraction and friendship. This was something alot more deep.  This is Love. 2 cent.

[tpe]

See, I read your post and just love all the things you say about falling in love on sight - but then I read mpj's post, and agree with her's too! 

I suppose, for me, it comes down to wanting to believe it was love at first sight, but probably thinking that they definitely had a connection, something they couldnt name, and eventually that something was given a name - love.  I think you're right about what happens at the time of SNIT....Ennis debating whether to go in, and then finally giving in to his feelings, says in actions what he couldnt say in words....he was in love with Jack then.

It could be both, you know.  It's common for people to realize in hindsight that they were in love before they were even fully conscious of it.  UNderstanding came later.  Ususally, it is a mix of sponteniety and gradual progression, with the former unconscious, and the latter consicous...

[christie wood]

It could be both, you know.  It's common for people to realize in hindsight that they were in love before they were even fully conscious of it.  UNderstanding came later.  Ususally, it is a mix of sponteniety and gradual progression, with the former unconscious, and the latter consicous...

Yeah, Thomas, I think that's what I was trying to say, in a round about way!!! But the romantic in me wants to believe they knew it.   

[tpe]

Yeah, Thomas, I think that's what I was trying to say, in a round about way!!! But the romantic in me wants to believe they knew it.   

At a certain level, they probably did.  I think in real life, this is what makes people realize later on that they were in love all along...