Topic: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"

[tpe]

I also asked myself how come that Jack spoke up only in few occasions about his wish to live with Ennis, sometimes even not so openly. Was he afraid that Ennis would broke up or stop "fishing" with him??

I believe that Jack was also not so sure of himself, and not so open as he looked like. I think that he also had his own restrains even we don't see it very clearly...   If not, he would have done something about it in 20 years... or not? I don't know! 

I think it's because Jack knew that Ennis didn't want to keep on discussing it.  Jack always found creative ways to bring up the possibility of a life together (example: the fight by the stream where Jack suggests that Ennis move away from Riverton)  and he was always rebuffed.  So, I don't think Jack was unsure of what he wanted; rather, he understood all too well what Ennis wanted -- and it was not to discuss it, after all was said and done over the years.

[tpe]

I think that after the divorce fiasco, he was a little more cautious in bringing up. That was brutal and a turning point for Jack in realizing that it was in fact Ennis that was holding them back and not anyone else. Jack got a good hard smack of reality that day. If he had any restraints I think it was in not being too eager to set himself up for that kind of hurt again, which it totally understandable, imo.

I agree with you, LJN.

[atalley]

For the new ladies here, the "slap in the face" to Jack after the divorce scene was that he had driven 14 hrs. 1 way & got turned away w/ not even so much as "would ya' like to come in for a cup of coffee?"  He immediately had to turn around & drive 14 hrs. back.  You would think that Ennis would realize the huge sacrifice, but his fears were too great.

[vedrana]

For the new ladies here, the "slap in the face" to Jack after the divorce scene was that he had driven 14 hrs. 1 way & got turned away w/ not even so much as "would ya' like to come in for a cup of coffee?"  He immediately had to turn around & drive 14 hrs. back.  You would think that Ennis would realize the huge sacrifice, but his fears were too great.

This scene would be really hard no to notice. It's one of the most repulsive scenes in the movie. When I first saw it I was shocked!

So after that, Jack was afraid to be rejected again, I can understand that, but Jack&Ennis met again the very next month after this unpleasant event. I wonder what were they talking about that time.

- Well Jack, how was your trip back home? Were you tired?
- Oh, it was easy. I even prolonged the trip right down to Mexico!
- Mexico?
- Yes, you know how I like their cuisine! 

... sure E&J had a strange relationship. They completely belonged to each other, but on the other side, they were not able to express their feelings (especially Ennis) to each other by words... Oh God, that's so awfully sad...

[smartestsonia]

This scene would be really hard no to notice. It's one of the most repulsive scenes in the movie. When I first saw it I was shocked!

So after that, Jack was afraid to be rejected again, I can understand that, but Jack&Ennis met again the very next month after this unpleasant event. I wonder what were they talking about that time.

- Well Jack, how was your trip back home? Were you tired?
- Oh, it was easy. I even prolonged the trip right down to Mexico!
- Mexico?
- Yes, you know how I like their cuisine! 

... sure E&J had a strange relationship. They completely belonged to each other, but on the other side, they were not able to express their feelings (especially Ennis) to each other by words... Oh God, that's so awfully sad...

OMG..this is so dam sad..That conversation would just be a cover up...They really were not so much into speaking things out..That was the flaw in their relationship because of which there were so many regrets, hurts that were expressed in the FC....

[tpe]

The fact that Jack persisted even after being turned away by Ennis after that 14 hour drive shows us how persistent Jack was.  He could have ca;;ed it quits there and then, but he didn't.  This is again one reason why I think that even after the Last Confrontation, his love never really wore out.

[vedrana]

The fact that Jack persisted even after being turned away by Ennis after that 14 hour drive shows us how persistent Jack was.  He could have ca;;ed it quits there and then, but he didn't.  This is again one reason why I think that even after the Last Confrontation, his love never really wore out.

Ennis knew that he was guilty/wrong, and he called "Jack!" maybe wanting to say something more, but Jack didn't want less! He wanted only Ennis, not his poor excuses, so he just left, but not before pointing out that their next month meeting still stays! That Jack character was so attractive in his neverending wish to reach the core of Ennis's heart, where anything would be possible for two of them.

Yes tpe, I am here with you - Jack's love NEVER WORE OUT! 

[tpe]

Ennis knew that he was guilty/wrong, and he called "Jack!" maybe wanting to say something more, but Jack didn't want less! He wanted only Ennis, not his poor excuses, so he just left, but not before pointing out that their next month meeting still stays! That Jack character was so attractive in his neverending wish to reach the core of Ennis's heart, where anything would be possible for two of them.

Yes tpe, I am here with you - Jack's love NEVER WORE OUT! 

Yes, I second. 

It is sad to see him try to hide the extent of his hurt.  I think he knew that Ennis didn't relish vulnerability, and might have thought that Ennis wouldn't have appreciated a more public display of his (Jack's) hurt feelings -- and so he went. 

[myprivatejack]

Ennis knew that he was guilty/wrong, and he called "Jack!" maybe wanting to say something more, but Jack didn't want less! He wanted only Ennis, not his poor excuses, so he just left, but not before pointing out that their next month meeting still stays! That Jack character was so attractive in his neverending wish to reach the core of Ennis's heart, where anything would be possible for two of them.

Yes tpe, I am here with you - Jack's love NEVER WORE OUT! 

However,I have never thought that Ennis was going to give Jack a simple excuse by means of this shy "Jack¡".The determination of his face and the way he tells his lover's name make me think that he was going to "arrange" things the best he could.The problem was that,as so many times during their relationship,Jack was so devastated that wasn't able at all of hearing,or even planning if there would be another moment to meet each other.And that's united with one of the greatest faults of Ennis and Jack's bond and about which we have spoken some times before; their lack of communication,strongly remarked and augmented by their-specially Ennis-fears to open themselves more,perhaps to result too "clear" before society.Be what it might be,what a pity¡...

[vedrana]

However,I have never thought that Ennis was going to give Jack a simple excuse by means of this shy "Jack¡".The determination of his face and the way he tells his lover's name make me think that he was going to "arrange" things the best he could.The problem was that,as so many times during their relationship,Jack was so devastated that wasn't able at all of hearing,or even planning if there would be another moment to meet each other.And that's united with one of the greatest faults of Ennis and Jack's bond and about which we have spoken some times before; their lack of communication,strongly remarked and augmented by their-specially Ennis-fears to open themselves more,perhaps to result too "clear" before society.Be what it might be,what a pity¡...

Yes- We always think of Jack as open and ready to deal with the problems, but you're right. Every rejection from Ennis was so painful for him, that he never even thought of second best. He always escaped to another theme hiding his broken heart. And that really breaks my heart too! :\'( :\'(

Even I believe that any arrangement Ennis would have Jack wasn't gonna accept. All was poor excuse except the only thing he always wanted... Ennis!

[FlwrChild]

I actually think that this is one scene in which Jack read Ennis perfectly. Ennis was happy to see Jack, yes. But as soon as he remembered that his daughters were there and started feeling that self conscious sense of everybody watching him and knowing his secret, there was no way he was going to ask Jack to stay on any level. When he turned to look at that truck driving past (at quite a distance too) and was so distracted by it, Jack could see the writing on the wall. He turned and left with a curt "See you next month then" because there was nothing else he could do. He could have hit the brakes and stayed in that yard all day and Ennis wouldn't have had anything to offer him - he was too paralyzed by his own fears and sense of transparency. For Jack to accept that and still show up for their next meeting, presumably with no recriminations, shows how deep his love for Ennis was. I'm with you guys. His love didn't wear out. He was worn out, his heart was worn out, but his love hadn't worn out. I can't say how long that might have lasted for, but at the time of his death I don't believe it had worn out yet

[smartestsonia]

I actually think that this is one scene in which Jack read Ennis perfectly. Ennis was happy to see Jack, yes. But as soon as he remembered that his daughters were there and started feeling that self conscious sense of everybody watching him and knowing his secret, there was no way he was going to ask Jack to stay on any level. When he turned to look at that truck driving past (at quite a distance too) and was so distracted by it, Jack could see the writing on the wall. He turned and left with a curt "See you next month then" because there was nothing else he could do. He could have hit the brakes and stayed in that yard all day and Ennis wouldn't have had anything to offer him - he was too paralyzed by his own fears and sense of transparency. For Jack to accept that and still show up for their next meeting, presumably with no recriminations, shows how deep his love for Ennis was. I'm with you guys. His love didn't wear out. He was worn out, his heart was worn out, but his love hadn't worn out. I can't say how long that might have lasted for, but at the time of his death I don't believe it had worn out yet

Even though months back I have disliked this scene because I hated to see Jack crying and going back disappointed after driving for 14 hours so happily and coming to meet Ennis..But now I have understood Ennis better and I know that he was a prey to his fears..His childhood fears which never left him, his kids thinking ill about him or the society condemning him took a toll over Ennis and he could not just be with Jack that day..Jack's love for Ennis never ever faded away and he kept waiting...Its too sad...

[vedrana]

Even though months back I have disliked this scene because I hated to see Jack crying and going back disappointed after driving for 14 hours so happily and coming to meet Ennis..But now I have understood Ennis better and I know that he was a prey to his fears..His childhood fears which never left him, his kids thinking ill about him or the society condemning him took a toll over Ennis and he could not just be with Jack that day..Jack's love for Ennis never ever faded away and he kept waiting...Its too sad...

Adoring the tenderness and the whole character of Jack, I really resent Ennis's behaviour sometimes. I just have to admit that. That character made so many mistakes during 20 years that I can not find an excuse for him always. There are a certain situations where his behaviour is acceptable and understood, but for me, as I see things, he really did too many mistakes for which he's going to pay all his sad life without Jack. It's not that I like that (God forbid!)... It's just that I will never be capable of accepting so sad and devastating end of their romance, as they could have everything. They were meant to be together. They were one soul just forced to be separated and to suffer. And I suffer together with them .... Damn!

[smartestsonia]

Adoring the tenderness and the whole character of Jack, I really resent Ennis's behaviour sometimes. I just have to admit that. That character made so many mistakes during 20 years that I can not find an excuse for him always. There are a certain situations where his behaviour is acceptable and understood, but for me, as I see things, he really did too many mistakes for which he's going to pay all his sad life without Jack. It's not that I like that (God forbid!)... It's just that I will never be capable of accepting so sad and devastating end of their romance, as they could have everything. They were meant to be together. They were one soul just forced to be separated and to suffer. And I suffer together with them .... Damn!

Dear Loreen, 
I can understand your emotions…I know that Ennis has acted harsh at times and he has missed opportunities for living together with Jack and we all know so deeply as to how much they loved each other and mean to each other that we just want them to be together...it gets hard and hard and as I said even I used to dislike this scene and I just wanted to enter the TV screen and tell Ennis what he is putting Jack through...It plays on my mind too…But I pity Ennis too as he never did all that with pleasure…He could not help it and that made himself miserable..He suffered throughout because he could not make himself follow his heart..I feel sad as he dint have or dint cater the strength to do that…Ya, that was a flaw in his nature...I can say that he unintentionally or unconsciously took Jack for granted as Jack would always be there…I think I pity him at the same time because he never could take up the strength to accept a sweet life with Jack…Sometimes people make wrong choices without knowing what they will pay for it in future...Fear can really rule people’s life and make them do things that they r not proud of…And then what remains is regrets for not doing what should have been done...Its a horrible situation…

[vedrana]

Dear Loreen, 
I can understand your emotions…I know that Ennis has acted harsh at times and he has missed opportunities for living together with Jack and we all know so deeply as to how much they loved each other and mean to each other that we just want them to be together...it gets hard and hard and as I said even I used to dislike this scene and I just wanted to enter the TV screen and tell Ennis what he is putting Jack through...It plays on my mind too…But I pity Ennis too as he never did all that with pleasure…He could not help it and that made himself miserable..He suffered throughout because he could not make himself follow his heart..I feel sad as he dint have or dint cater the strength to do that…Ya, that was a flaw in his nature...I can say that he unintentionally or unconsciously took Jack for granted as Jack would always be there…I think I pity him at the same time because he never could take up the strength to accept a sweet life with Jack…Sometimes people make wrong choices without knowing what they will pay for it in future...Fear can really rule people’s life and make them do things that they r not proud of…And then what remains is regrets for not doing what should have been done...Its a horrible situation…

Do you ever get the feeling that during some crucial scenes ( 1963. talking near Jack's truck, 1967 first time "fishing", divorce scene or FC...) you have always a little hope that maybe this time you watch the movie, something will be different, Ennis would maybe change his mind, and everything will be just fine... Every time I watch it, there is a little stupid hope in me.... 

[myprivatejack]

Dear Loreen, 
I can understand your emotions…I know that Ennis has acted harsh at times and he has missed opportunities for living together with Jack and we all know so deeply as to how much they loved each other and mean to each other that we just want them to be together...it gets hard and hard and as I said even I used to dislike this scene and I just wanted to enter the TV screen and tell Ennis what he is putting Jack through...It plays on my mind too…But I pity Ennis too as he never did all that with pleasure…He could not help it and that made himself miserable..He suffered throughout because he could not make himself follow his heart..I feel sad as he dint have or dint cater the strength to do that…Ya, that was a flaw in his nature...I can say that he unintentionally or unconsciously took Jack for granted as Jack would always be there…I think I pity him at the same time because he never could take up the strength to accept a sweet life with Jack…Sometimes people make wrong choices without knowing what they will pay for it in future...Fear can really rule people’s life and make them do things that they r not proud of…And then what remains is regrets for not doing what should have been done...Its a horrible situation…

I agree,dear Cleo,and I can't add anything else to what you have said.I have remarked these phrases because I think they are very clear and right,not just about what happenned with Ennis all his life,but also about what we should learn from it.

[tpe]

I actually think that this is one scene in which Jack read Ennis perfectly. Ennis was happy to see Jack, yes. But as soon as he remembered that his daughters were there and started feeling that self conscious sense of everybody watching him and knowing his secret, there was no way he was going to ask Jack to stay on any level. When he turned to look at that truck driving past (at quite a distance too) and was so distracted by it, Jack could see the writing on the wall. He turned and left with a curt "See you next month then" because there was nothing else he could do. He could have hit the brakes and stayed in that yard all day and Ennis wouldn't have had anything to offer him - he was too paralyzed by his own fears and sense of transparency. For Jack to accept that and still show up for their next meeting, presumably with no recriminations, shows how deep his love for Ennis was. I'm with you guys. His love didn't wear out. He was worn out, his heart was worn out, but his love hadn't worn out. I can't say how long that might have lasted for, but at the time of his death I don't believe it had worn out yet

Again, a wonderful distinction here.  Thanks, Flwrchild.

[atalley]

I've always thought that Jack's last thoughts were of Ennis right before he died. :\'(

[vedrana]

I've always thought that Jack's last thoughts were of Ennis right before he died. :\'(

Yes Atalley, I think so too! :\'(

[smartestsonia]

Do you ever get the feeling that during some crucial scenes ( 1963. talking near Jack's truck, 1967 first time "fishing", divorce scene or FC...) you have always a little hope that maybe this time you watch the movie, something will be different, Ennis would maybe change his mind, and everything will be just fine... Every time I watch it, there is a little stupid hope in me.... 

I get this hope alot when I watch the scene after the reunion when Jack talk about their sweet life to Ennis...I just want to freeze that moment so that it remains the same..Them both together..But it does not happen and that breaks my heart...I am left wounded like always at the end..

[myprivatejack]

I get this hope alot when I watch the scene after the reunion when Jack talk about their sweet life to Ennis...I just want to freeze that moment so that it remains the same..Them both together..But it does not happen and that breaks my heart...I am left wounded like always at the end..

I have also ths hope when I see them speaking-more or less...-after having came down on the mountain.One always is waiting for some twirl that can change their situation completely; as if you could come into the screen and oblige them to make the first step until what they are really wishing.I think it's normal when one feels so identified with something as we do with Ennis and Jack story...

[vedrana]

I have also ths hope when I see them speaking-more or less...-after having came down on the mountain.One always is waiting for some twirl that can change their situation completely; as if you could come into the screen and oblige them to make the first step until what they are really wishing.I think it's normal when one feels so identified with something as we do with Ennis and Jack story...

I get this hope alot when I watch the scene after the reunion when Jack talk about their sweet life to Ennis...I just want to freeze that moment so that it remains the same..Them both together..But it does not happen and that breaks my heart...I am left wounded like always at the end..

So, it's not only me! Others also have this crazy hope that movie can change and the whole story go to another direction... well this is something! 

[Brach]

I think there's some open space between what the story says and what some of you are trying to believe.

The story isn't broken. It's fine just the way it is. 

[tpe]

I think there's some open space between what the story says and what some of you are trying to believe.

The story isn't broken. It's fine just the way it is. 

The ending certainly has that elusive combination of sadness and hope.  It is bittersweet, tragic, and (to a certain extent) redemptive.

[vedrana]

I think there's some open space between what the story says and what some of you are trying to believe.

The story isn't broken. It's fine just the way it is. 

Brach  ,

there's also some open space between us who experience this story very emotionaly, and you, who have a surprising knowledge about the SS and about the movie, but no emotional attachment to any. 

[myprivatejack]

I think there's some open space between what the story says and what some of you are trying to believe.

The story isn't broken. It's fine just the way it is. 

I think that some open space means "open to other possibilities",if not about what regards to Jack's end-that however,nobody could put the blame on us to wish it had been different...-,open to a kind of hope and,as Thomas say,redemption in Ennis future.It's nothing bad to speculate about these some other possibilities,even if we believe that the end gives us a lesson greater than a happy one,don't you think so?...

[vedrana]

I think that some open space means "open to other possibilities",if not about what regards to Jack's end-that however,nobody could put the blame on us to wish it had been different...-,open to a kind of hope and,as Thomas say,redemption in Ennis future.It's nothing bad to speculate about these some other possibilities,even if we believe that the end gives us a lesson greater than a happy one,don't you think so?...

MPJ 

beautifully said!

[myprivatejack]

MPJ 

beautifully said!

Thank you,Loreen ¡  But it's true; it's not bad believing that some hope could be born from the tragedy.

[LuvJackNasty]

Thank you,Loreen ¡  But it's true; it's not bad believing that some hope could be born from the tragedy.

I agree    There is plenty of open space between what an author puts out and how the reader interprets it and discussion about it is healthy not to mention opening up new perspectives.

[FlwrChild]

I agree. I think one of the most impressive things about this story is that it is perfect the way it is, and because of this it makes us want more for those boys, because AP (and Ang & crew) brought them and their love to life in a way that we just can't help caring about them and wanting them to be happy. It's also wonderful to think that out of the lessons learned from what they went through, some people might actually be able to make positive changes in their own lives.

To think that all of this came out of a short story about two lonely sheep herders. Sigh...thanks AP.