Author Topic: Why cremation?  (Read 79862 times)

Offline jerasjr

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Why cremation?
« on: Feb 24, 2006, 09:54 AM »
Have thought it odd that Jack was cremated, even though that was evidently his wish.  It was even less common than it is now.  Did he hope in his heart that Jack would be able to take his ashes to BBM (or maybe even keep them)?  Lureen showed no will to do that, but she knew that was where he wanted to be, his favorite place.  Jack expressed this wish and maybe thought that Lureen would know thta Ennis would do it even if she wouldn't.
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2006, 10:24 AM by jerasjr »
"A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."

Offline rabjr1

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Why cremation?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 24, 2006, 10:19 AM »
He wanted to be creamated so he could rest in peace on Brokeback Mountain, probably the only place and time he was ever happy in his life. 
RAB aka Raoul The Really Rotten

Offline rabjr1

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Why cremation?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 24, 2006, 10:21 AM »
besides he probably knew everyone in the family plot and didn't want to spend eternity with a bunch of stiffs.  (pun intended)
RAB aka Raoul The Really Rotten

Offline jerasjr

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Why cremation?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 24, 2006, 10:23 AM »
Good reply that brought a chuckle.
"A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."

Offline Titus

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Why cremation?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 24, 2006, 05:50 PM »
That's the only way he could have ended up on Park/National Forest land.  Someone scattering his ashes on the QT.  Says alot about family ties to Mom and Dad and Lureen.  Brokeback was more important! :'(  Titus.
"Holding on to this moment of love and forgiveness mediated by this beautiful, loving boy.  Whose heart and soul had passed through the shadows and remained unsullied, undefeated."  The Redemption of Ennis Del Mar

Offline chameau

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Why cremation?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 24, 2006, 06:20 PM »
That's the only way he could have ended up on Park/National Forest land.  Someone scattering his ashes on the QT.  Says alot about family ties to Mom and Dad and Lureen.  Brokeback was more important! :'(  Titus.

 :'( :'( here too!
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline jerasjr

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Why cremation?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 24, 2006, 09:23 PM »
Was speaking from my experience, a rural midwestern upbringing (but still more metropolitan than Wyoming) and was in my 50's before an acquaintance mentioned that her mother had been cremated, and at that time the body had to be sent away from the area and the cremains got shipped back.  Would be interesting if there were stats for that era to see how.  And no I don't think Lureen made much of an effort, it made no difference to her if Ennis called or not, she had doen her duty as far as she was concerned.
"A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."

Offline chameau

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Why cremation?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 24, 2006, 10:25 PM »
Was speaking from my experience, a rural midwestern upbringing

I had a similar experience when my father passed away in 1993.  He died in is home (remote) area, the body had to be sent to Quebec City to be cremated and, the ashes were sent back.  It was a travel of 604km (378 miles) back and forth. 
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline rabjr1

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Why cremation?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 25, 2006, 01:49 AM »
   
       My family wants to have me creamated  but I'm so full of s**t  I'll never burn!
RAB aka Raoul The Really Rotten

Offline *Froggy*

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Why cremation?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 25, 2006, 09:50 AM »
Most of my family members want to be cremated, they do not want to be buried in a cemetery, they've all chosen places where they want to rest, and you can't bury them there.

My father wants his ashes scattered in the Ocean, so that every time I see a river or go to the ocean, I can put a flower in the water and he will get it.  :'(
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


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Offline tpe

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Why cremation?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 26, 2006, 04:50 PM »
Have thought it odd that Jack was cremated, even though that was evidently his wish.  It was even less common than it is now.  Did he hope in his heart that Jack would be able to take his ashes to BBM (or maybe even keep them)?  Lureen showed no will to do that, but she knew that was where he wanted to be, his favorite place.  Jack expressed this wish and maybe thought that Lureen would know thta Ennis would do it even if she wouldn't.

I had wondered if cremation was actually Jack's wish, or was it a convenient way to hide the telltale signs of a violent/unnatural death.  Having thought about it, I hazard to say that it was probably both.  Jack's wish to have his ashes scattered on BBM could not have been invented by Lureen...

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Why cremation?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 26, 2006, 09:06 PM »
I think it has to do with both. The way in which he died, no one wants to see it, even after the fact because it reinforces. Plus I think Jack wanted to go to the only place he ever knew any happiness. With Ennis on Brokeback.

Frog, when the time comes, I wlll come be by your side and hold your hand. I will toss a flower in rememberance.

I too want to be cremated for the reason, that I wan't to spread to the wind in a few of my favorite places.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline chameau

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Why cremation?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 26, 2006, 09:20 PM »
Most of my family members want to be cremated, they do not want to be buried in a cemetery, they've all chosen places where they want to rest, and you can't bury them there.

My father wants his ashes scattered in the Ocean, so that every time I see a river or go to the ocean, I can put a flower in the water and he will get it.  :'(

you got me now  :'(
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Why cremation?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 26, 2006, 09:55 PM »
Cham - you can come cry with Cody...between the music and the posts... :'(
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline chameau

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Why cremation?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 26, 2006, 09:59 PM »
Cham - you can come cry with Cody...between the music and the posts... :'(

And Tom's videos  :'(

Now The Wings are playing  :'(
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline *Froggy*

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Why cremation?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 27, 2006, 03:56 PM »
I think it has to do with both. The way in which he died, no one wants to see it, even after the fact because it reinforces. Plus I think Jack wanted to go to the only place he ever knew any happiness. With Ennis on Brokeback.

Frog, when the time comes, I wlll come be by your side and hold your hand. I will toss a flower in rememberance.

I too want to be cremated for the reason, that I wan't to spread to the wind in a few of my favorite places.

Most of my family members want to be cremated, they do not want to be buried in a cemetery, they've all chosen places where they want to rest, and you can't bury them there.

My father wants his ashes scattered in the Ocean, so that every time I see a river or go to the ocean, I can put a flower in the water and he will get it.  :'(

you got me now  :'(

It is something that we always discussed at home..but thankx guys xxxx
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline roguejedi

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Why cremation?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 27, 2006, 11:50 PM »
cremation means that after death...you want to be free...you do not want to be trapped in a plot somewhere...you've paid ur dues in your life time, now, u 've earned your freedom.   :'( :'( :'(

can't we get any sadder?

Offline chameau

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Why cremation?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 28, 2006, 01:16 AM »
cremation means that after death...you want to be free...you do not want to be trapped in a plot somewhere...you've paid ur dues in your life time, now, u 've earned your freedom.   :'( :'( :'(

can't we get any sadder?

No sadder roguejedi!

Relieved, thanks for sharing! Great post!

Hem, need some shoulder my friend   :-\
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline bram

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Why cremation?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 28, 2006, 02:43 PM »
I didn't know that it used to be uncommon. Everyone on my Mom's side gets cremated, and I'd like to be cremated when I die.
Dog Canyon, Texas is the most beautiful place in the world. You should check it out.

Offline rabjr1

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Why cremation?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 28, 2006, 02:56 PM »
for years with some religious persuasions there were restrictions against cremation. 
RAB aka Raoul The Really Rotten

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Why cremation?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 28, 2006, 08:58 PM »
I might just request when I go, that some of my ashes go to up to the mountains, and I'll let y'all guess which ones.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline roguejedi

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Why cremation?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 28, 2006, 09:39 PM »
cremation means that after death...you want to be free...you do not want to be trapped in a plot somewhere...you've paid ur dues in your life time, now, u 've earned your freedom.   :'( :'( :'(

can't we get any sadder?

No sadder roguejedi!

Relieved, thanks for sharing! Great post!

Thank you :-)  *Hugs*

finally, i can see a smiley on this board...

drew

Hem, need some shoulder my friend   :-\

Offline hidesert

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Why cremation?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 28, 2006, 10:53 PM »
Yeah for Jack BBM was the place he was the happiest and that's where he wanted to return.  Of course it would be expensive to transport his body there for burial and then try to bury it on BBM since it was National Forest land.  So the next best thing was cremation - anyone could easily transport the ashes.

I also thought it was strange that he didn't leave any info with Lureen (Ennis address or phone number), but as has been commented who in good health would think they were going to die at 39 years of age.  Don't know how far the mythical BBM is from Lightning Flats, but at least Jack ended up back in Wyoming. 

Ashes do become part of the environment on land or sea, of course they can also end up at as part of the dung heap or in a fishes' stomach, but I'll let that be.     ;D



Offline Cowboy Cody

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Why cremation?
« Reply #23 on: Mar 01, 2006, 12:02 AM »
The place of BBM, accordin to Annie Proulx is somewhere in the Big Horn Range. Lightn'n Flat is just at the northern end of the Big Horn range. But I'm sure it had more to do with Ennis than anythin else.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline ranchgal

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Why cremation?
« Reply #24 on: Mar 01, 2006, 12:05 AM »
I didn't know that it used to be uncommon. Everyone on my Mom's side gets cremated, and I'd like to be cremated when I die.


the thought of it wasn't uncommon at all---the problem around my part of the country-midwest plains--was lack of facilities---you had to be transported for over a couple hours to find a crematorium--but once you had arrangements made, it is okay.

I always said I wanted to cremated, too--my hubby is too conventional, so I told my sisters to get after him if anything ever happened to me.   My feeling---I have never sat completely still for over 15 minutes in my life, the thought of being dug down, and stuck for ever- YYYEEEWWWWWW!! So I told them to burn me, bring me back in a coffee can and dump it over on the high side of the trout dam in the pasture, cause the wind always blows there, and I'll just drift with the wind forever, and be happy.

Offline bram

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Why cremation?
« Reply #25 on: Mar 03, 2006, 04:55 PM »
I asked my mom about it. Everyone on her side is Orthodox Jewish. She said that Orthodox Jews have always preferred cremation. That's probably why everyone on her side was and why my whole family wants to be cremated.
Dog Canyon, Texas is the most beautiful place in the world. You should check it out.

Offline Sitaram

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Why cremation?
« Reply #26 on: Mar 04, 2006, 08:44 AM »
It occurs to me that only cremation allows for something to be divided, shared, or fought over.  A corpse in a coffin does not permit such drama.

When my mother passed, I had her cremated, and kept the urn of ashes in her bedroom, in her home, which she loved, for a year or so, until the estate could be settled and the house sold, and then I brought them to the farmland where she was raised, and had a memorial service and burial with the few relatives who still lived in that area.

I am reminded of the story of the death of Guru Nanak, who founded the Sikh religion around the 16th century in northern India.  Certainly many will find this tradition apocryphal, but it is charming nonetheless.

Nanak was admired equally by Hindus and Muslims.  When he died, his body was covered with a sheet, and the two groups came and argued for hours who should have the right to bury or cremate the body.  Finally, they removed the sheet, and found, not a body, but flowers, so they divided the flowers equally between the two groups, and the Hindus performed their cremation, while the Muslims had a burial service.

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Offline Titus

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Why cremation?
« Reply #27 on: Mar 04, 2006, 08:46 AM »
I find cremation unusual for Texas (Bible Belt and Southern Baptist) and for the time period.  Not that it didn't happen, but it would have been a bit odd.  Especially since most Americans go in for all this embalming and makeup and stuff thinking that on Judgement Day they'll all rise up looking just like they did when they popped it.  It's a fundamentalist interpretation of the "Resurrection of the Body".

Lureen, by cremating Jack, fulfilled his wishes in part, but failed to get his ashes scattered on BBM.  She kept half of them and buried them in Childress.  Such the "respectable" widow.

Quote
The place of BBM, accordin to Annie Proulx is somewhere in the Big Horn Range. Lightn'n Flat is just at the northern end of the Big Horn range.

True, but I've racked my brain trying to reconcile that to the fact that Jack and Ennis ate at Dubois on the last day together in '63.  Dubois, which is just below the Wind River Mountains, presumably being near Signal.  And that Proulx says they return "again and again" to the Wind Rivers.  At the end when he is buying the postcard (short story) he asks for one of BBM which is not in Fremont County but "north of here" (Big Horn country?).  Annie would be amused that we have spent so much time and effort deconstructing her story! ;D  We're as bad a Biblical scholars sifting through the archeology and anthropology of it all.  Cheers, Titus.
"Holding on to this moment of love and forgiveness mediated by this beautiful, loving boy.  Whose heart and soul had passed through the shadows and remained unsullied, undefeated."  The Redemption of Ennis Del Mar

Offline monicita

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Why cremation?
« Reply #28 on: Mar 11, 2006, 01:45 PM »
Thanks for the guide!

This will help us no end. I suggest that we all tell people who seem a bit lost to go and look things up there 8)

monicita
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Offline siredevienne38

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Why cremation?
« Reply #29 on: Mar 12, 2006, 04:06 PM »
Well, I think to have his ashes distributed at BBM is firstly, to be constantly linked to the place where he met the man of his life, where he was really lucky (on the occasion of their encounters), secondly to demonstrate his own free will (remember, he was always showing some deviant behaviour compared to average people from the countryside), thirdly to seperate from his family...