Topic: Why cremation?

[frenchcda]

In India they burned the body and send a candle sitting on a lotus down the river, In Places like in Mongolia and in Bolivia they take your body up the highest of mountain and leave it there to be eaten by the Vultures, here they cremate you then send your ashes into the ocean, or as in many of my departed friends they have interned them at some mausoleum so people can go and grief days on end.
 Well there is a old proverb that says let the dead bury the dead,
 so for me please take a carboard box put half to cinder then spread under a weeping willows so I can listening to its cry for eternity...
then take the other half and feed it to the Vultures for in my mind they represent the indifference of the world, may as well eat me up!
that's my take on it and no memorandum or time wasted on words lost in the wind, I'm dead!

[jerasjr]

Siredevienne, you give us 3 very good reason for the choice of cremation for Jack
his want to link to BBM (Ennnis) - his free will - and the need to break from his family. 
All very valid.

[jason]

UNDER CONSTRUCTION...updates every day!

[/size]
There have been so many interesting topics and discussion in this forum about BBM. To make it easier, all the topics are indexed based on the timeline of the scenes (thanks to jerasjr for making the timeline of scenes) so you know what have been discussed.

It will be continuously updated on a regular basis. Please feel free to join the discussion. If you don't find what you are looking for, you can do "search" located on the top of the page or start a new topic.

General Discussion

....

BIG THANKS to ethan and jeras for this super arranging/indexing job. 

There's so much good info and insight in these posts I think we needed this.  I was getting really confused ...

Thanks again you guys.

jason

[ethan]

BIG THANKS to ethan and jeras for this super arranging/indexing job. 

You are welcome. This is a great reference for me as well when I need to direct members to other discussions.

[siredevienne38]

Siredevienne, you give us 3 very good reason for the choice of cremation for Jack
his want to link to BBM (Ennnis) - his free will - and the need to break from his family. 
All very valid.

thnx, BTW, there is one reason more, I guess: Remeber the scene where Jack considers to shott an animal because he was fed up with eating only beans? Ennsi replied he would stick to beans, while Kack replied that he won't! There is some defiance in his worlds not to arrange with the existing circumstances......... and this defiance is part of his character - therefore he does not want to hide his sexuality & be cremated like hs folks, too!!!!

[jerasjr]

You are welcome from me too.  It was just a way to make it easier to find things that have been talked about, or to see if it might be a new thread to post.  My other self (admin ass't.) kicked in.

[*Froggy*]

Wow!!! Fantastic work jerasjr!

[Miss Nice]

Great index!!!!!!!!! Thanks for making it ethan! /Katie

[ethan]

Great index!!!!!!!!! Thanks for making it ethan! /Katie

Katie, you are welcome. I hope more members will use this index.

[n061857]

Actually,  I wonder why this subject  (cremation) was even discussed.  I quess, if he was telling Lureen that BBM was his favorite place, perhaps he would say when he dies he would like his ashes spread there.  However, his discussions with Lureen about BBM didn't seem very detailed, because she didn't know why he liked it there.  He hadn't even given her a ficticious reason.  So, would he have gotten to say he wished to have his ashes spread there?

Or did he discuss this because he was on a path of self destruction and was predicting what the future held for him?

I think it is terrible that Lureen didn't offer Ennis her set of Jack's ashes to spread, even though I think during that conversation she summising what their relationship was all about.  Still it is heartless.

[Patriot1]

However, his discussions with Lureen about BBM didn't seem very detailed, because she didn't know why he liked it there.  He hadn't even given her a ficticious reason.

Actually Jack did tell her that Brokeback was his favorite place.

When Ennis told her they herded sheep up there in 1963 she said, "Well, he said it was his favorite place...now I know why."

[chameau]

When Ennis told her they herded sheep up there in 1963 she said, "Well, he said it was his favorite place...now I know why."

Lureen never  said "I know why".  From the short story, the screenplay and the movie sticks to the lines from both and they are the same:

"Well, he said it was his place.  I tought he meant to get drunk.  Drink whiskey up there.  He drank a lot."

[Patriot1]

When Ennis told her they herded sheep up there in 1963 she said, "Well, he said it was his favorite place...now I know why."

Lureen never  said "I know why".  From the short story, the screenplay and the movie sticks to the lines from both and they are the same:

"Well, he said it was his place.  I tought he meant to get drunk.  Drink whiskey up there.  He drank a lot."

Actually we are both wrong if using quotes, but you are closer.  I guess I was projecting her thought.

ENNIS
. . . No, ma'am, we herded sheep up on Brokeback one summer . . . . (the movie adds in 1963)

LUREEN
Well, he said it was his favorite place.  I thought he meant to get drunk.  (I projected, now I know it was because of you)  He drank a lot.
=================================
But she did put two and two together when Ennis said they were up there together. 
That is when she started to cry.  She found out Ennis was Jack's first love.  And because they only had one kid and probably by accident, maybe Jack's only love. 

[n061857]

I guess I phrased my post incorrectly.  I knew Jack said it was his favorite place.  From what Lureen says in this conversation, she does not know why.  (She soon finds out from Ennis.)   My question is if this discussion about Brokeback was so brief, how did it come up that he wanted his ashes spread there?  I don't find this a topic that a 39 year old would talk about, unless he thought there was a reason for it.

[*Froggy*]

LOL!!!

[ksxks]

I just discovered this list of topics.  Huge thanks to you responsible!  It's just a cool thing in itself -- I printed it out 

ks

[jesseanne21]

I thought that it was symbolic for Lureen to keep half of Jack's cremains near her and Bobby and send the other half to where he grew up and be allowed to be scattered on Brokeback if his parents knew where that was.  She only had part (half) of Jack in life and she would keep half after his death.  She wasn't as heartless as Jack's old man who wanted to stick him in the family plot, bury him on the "grieving plain". :\'(

EJR -

What an awesome observation!  And, so true.  Lureen only had half of Jack during their whole relationship.  She never really knew him at all.

[welshwitch]

Shakespeare said it all: Nay, but to die and go we know not where,
                               To lie in cold obstruction and to rot;
                               This sensible warm motiong to become
                               A kneaded clod.

Jack is air and fire, not earth and water; cremation returns him to his natural elements.

[edgar]

Seems like I've written this somewhere else, but anyway....

I don't think Jack expected to die at age 39. But he did have a certain sort of idea of early death lingering around his brain. Hell, if nothing else, Ennis had told him that they were both at risk of death if anyone found out. (And Jack never told Ennis that Aguirre had indeed seen them, and thus they had in a sense "cheated death" [and especially Jack, since he went back and Aguirre seemed somehow to blame Jack for the situation]--wasn't there a version of the script that had some guys threatening Jack after he leaves Aguirre's trailer in '64?)
Anyway, I don't think it's odd for married couples to mention to each other some thoughts about final arrangements. Perhaps Jack and Lureen were at the funeral of one of Lureen's relatives, or they passed a cemetery, or heard about some famous person whose ashes were scattered...somewhere. Jack certainly didn't want to be stuck in the Newsome section of the cemetery, so he told Lureen his wishes.
My brother and his wife are in their forties, and they have already made burial arrangements.
What everyone else said about the ashes going to BBM sounds right. I'll just add that, practically speaking, Ennis Del Mar was the only one who was going to make that trip and accomplish that duty.

So Jack was ensuring (or so he thought--vainly, as it turned out) one last connection with Ennis.
Okay, I think I'll cry myself to sleep now.

[welshwitch]

In the ss L D Newsome died ( no great loss, IMO) so that might have been the trigger for discussing what other members of the family wanted when they died.

How are we going to ensure that our ashes are scattered on BBM?

[Raisa]

Yeah for Jack BBM was the place he was the happiest and that's where he wanted to return. 

I don´t think that it is odd to speak about in what kind of funerals we´ll want to have when it is our time to pass away. Since teenager I have made mine last will very clearly to my relatives: I want to be cremated, absolutely, and if they don´t obey my will, I´ll be back  haunting them. Of course I have this my little obsession concerning death and death-rituals and graveyards, but I think it´ll be easier for relatives, when they know what the passed-away person wanted.

I was sad when Jack´s father inhibited Jack´s last will to come true.

[Raisa]

How are we going to ensure that our ashes are scattered on BBM?

Well, that´s a good question! Maybe we all have to do our last wills and frighten our relatives and closest people into to do it. If they won´t, they ´ll see many dreadful ghosts around them...

[johnboy]

My theory,  its jack finally finding away to qiut Ennis, faking his own death, Lureen / LD  in on it because the shame she feels, there's a story there, if one has'nt been done already.

I dont fancy a being cremated or buried, what if you are not dead  , just stand me in the corner

[bram]

I dont fancy a being cremated or buried, what if you are not dead  , just stand me in the corner

If you weren't dead, you will be after I cremate you. 

[jeffjoe]

My theory,  its jack finally finding away to qiut Ennis, faking his own death, Lureen / LD  in on it because the shame she feels, there's a story there, if one has'nt been done already.

Idon't think so, Jack never find how to quit Ennis, he love him forever, the shirts are the prove, the ashes go with Ennis in the Brokeback mountain where they both was so happy  

[vedrana]

I was searching several times through the threads and I found a thread which is mainly about how common was cremation in Texas in 80'.

What I want to ask here is -  how logical is that a young man, before 39 years of age decides to be cremated and expressed his wish to his wife. Isn't it too early?

Was he really afraid that he's going to be killed and wanted to be sure that others would know his wish? Or was it just his never fulfilled wish to return to Brokeback, one way or the other. If can not go there alive, he presumed that the only way he's going to be brought there when dead is in ashes. No one would bring his body to the mountain and bury it there (uh... even writing this makes me suffer )

When did he bring this decision? In earlier years or just before he died? How his last few months looked like? Was he beaten up cos of Ennis' refusal or thrilled for trying to start something with Randall (if this is even the truth  )?

I know that these questions are not very uniform, but I believe can be put under he same umbrella...
 

[chameau]

this was already discussed here so we merge your topic with this one

[vedrana]

Thanks! I found something some time ago, but not this... or maybe it was 

Anyway, thanks!

[babytammy7]

What I want to ask here is -  how logical is that a young man, before 39 years of age decides to be cremated and expressed his wish to his wife. Isn't it too early?

Well, honey, about this....I'm only 30 and fours years ago I said to my parents that if something happened to me I want to be cremated. I think that death can find us in 6 years or maybe next hour...We don't know, so a ton of people like to make sure that their wishes are known with enough time. I also made clear almost 10 years ago what I want them to do with my organs when I die, so....maybe Jack just only needed to be sure that he'd be in the place he loved the most, the place where he was really and truly happy.
He travelled a lot, not only to see Ennis but also because of his job (at least in the SS) and roads are dangerous, so maybe he was only being cautious and let Lureen know what he wanted to be done when he die....

[vedrana]

Well, honey, about this....I'm only 30 and fours years ago I said to my parents that if something happened to me I want to be cremated. I think that death can find us in 6 years or maybe next hour...We don't know, so a ton of people like to make sure that their wishes are known with enough time. I also made clear almost 10 years ago what I want them to do with my organs when I die, so....maybe Jack just only needed to be sure that he'd be in the place he loved the most, the place where he was really and truly happy.
He travelled a lot, not only to see Ennis but also because of his job (at least in the SS) and roads are dangerous, so maybe he was only being cautious and let Lureen know what he wanted to be done when he die....

Hm.. now when you put it this way, I understand. But I remember the first time I saw the movie, I was very surprised when Lureen said to Ennis about Jack's wish. It felt so premeditated but in a bad way.
I was also terrified by the fact that he wanted to be cremated, but now I understand that it was the only way to return to Brokeback.
Expressing his wish to his wife for me is also kind of intimacy they shared. I don't know how to say that, but her words and the cremation made me very uncomfortable. Especially coming many months after he died - as if Jack never existed - he became only ashes... :\'(

In a way, his last months are so mysterious - his relationship with Randall, his death, his plans, feelings... and suddenly without a proper explanation - no Jack anymore! Not even his body! Gone! Disappeared!  :\'(