Topic: How lonely was Ennis in the end?

[Inner_Me]

Hello everyone!

Well, basically what the title says.
I have neither read the short story nor the screenplay, so I wonder:
Was Ennis really as lonely as it's depicted at the end of the movie?
The only person we see him having contact with is Alma Jr. (well, and presumably his employer, since he does need to work).
I wonder if there were any notes anywhere that stated if he continued to have contact with Alma and others.

That was one of the hardest parts for me about BBM:
Seeing/feeling what Ennis had, lost and what he got in the end.

Regards

[lancecowboy]

Hi there IM.

I believe you will get a couple different answers here. I've learned that a lot of people, in fact almost everyone, perceive Ennis as living a lonely sad life alone in the trailer. In fact, according to the short story, that is clearly the correct interpretation.

However, I am one of the few romantic optimists (perhaps the ONLY one) who see Ennis continuing his contact with Jack's Ma, and going to Junior's wedding, being a part of her life and her family, visiting for Thanksgiving and holidays.

You can see a bit of that in my attempt at fan fiction...Return to Brokeback Mountain.

I may even go further and speculate that Ennis might stay in touch with Loreen and Bobby, so that he can reunite Jack's ashes on Brokeback Mountain one day. But that's another chapter in the story. I haven't written much more than the first three chapters.

At the end, I don't think Ennis was lonely, by his standard, but he was sure setting off on the road to being the tough old bird like Rich and Earl, except he only has Jack in his dreams, his and Jack's family for holidays, and Jack's ashes on Brokeback Mountain in his final days. That's all Ennis needed. He was happy with beans, with cuddling up to Jack a few times a year. After all, we are talking about Ennis, the iconic lonesome cowboy, independent, laconic, hardly say more than a few words a day. His life is rich, because he has his "inner me"  

[jackster]

As LC already knows, I’m one of the few in his camp who don’t see Ennis as being lonely, at the end of the film - or ever. This is not to say he didn’t miss Jack tremendously, but I feel there is a difference between missing Jack and being lonely.

In earlier posts I’ve described Ennis as an introvert and I still feel that way. You can check Wikipedia or other sources to get an idea of what that involves, but Ennis basically took Jack, and the idea of Jack, into himself, so that wherever he went Jack was with him, a part of him. This would continue even after Jack’s death. Of course this fits perfectly with the cowboy lifestyle, being alone, on your own, with little dependence on others most of the time. But being alone is not the same as wishing you weren’t alone (i.e. lonely). This can be a difficult concept for many, especially extroverts (i.e. Jack), to grasp.

Frustrating for those who loved him, Alma, Cassie, and of course most of all Jack, this lack of need of personal contact can be misinterpreted as lack of love, it’s not. Whether Jack understood this at the end is a perpetual question. I believe that in fact he did come to understand this basic difference between he and Ennis, and that this was one of the reasons he was attracted to him and loved him.

[myprivatejack]

I agree with all has been said here up to now-by the way,great points,as always,friends ¡-.I tend to think that Ennis knew another way of giving himself,almost of loving,after Jack's death;maybe his last and enigmatic words "Jack,I swear..." take implicit the promise of not deceiving his loving ones the way he had deceived him somehow...And this greater opening of him could perfectly be translated into a greater contact with her daughters or Mrs.Twist,for example,why not?.
However,I think too that Ennis was basically a loner for way of being and for own conviction;it seems to me that there was always some part of him closed for the others,that even Jack was unable to open sufficiently.As Jackster says,this lack of need of personal contact can be misinterpreted as lack of love.No,it was simply his way of understand life and the way he was able to give himself to the others,always reserving this part for himself,that's all...But I'm maybe not as romantic as both of you,because I really believe that-in spite of all these greater,let's say,social contacts-Ennis felt tremendously alone,not lonely;if in the second case,this was an option choosen by him,in the first one it was the result of having lost the love of his life.A situation that he only was able to realise and accept with all the consequences when it was already too late;an important enough reason as to have and feel an unbearable emptiness forever...

[lancecowboy]

As LC already knows, I’m one of the few in his camp who don’t see Ennis as being lonely, at the end of the film - or ever. This is not to say he didn’t miss Jack tremendously, but I feel there is a difference between missing Jack and being lonely.

In earlier posts I’ve described Ennis as an introvert and I still feel that way. You can check Wikipedia or other sources to get an idea of what that involves, but Ennis basically took Jack, and the idea of Jack, into himself, so that wherever he went Jack was with him, a part of him. This would continue even after Jack’s death. Of course this fits perfectly with the cowboy lifestyle, being alone, on your own, with little dependence on others most of the time. But being alone is not the same as wishing you weren’t alone (i.e. lonely). This can be a difficult concept for many, especially extroverts (i.e. Jack), to grasp.

    Jackster. Awesome.

Just as Ennis internalized his Pa's homophobia for thirty years from when he was nine until in Jack's closet while hugging 'em two shirts, Ennis internalized Jack's love for the rest of his life. In a sense, "Jack, I swear." is also a promise to never let go, to hold on to the love they shared, that Jack acknowledged the moment it started, but took Ennis a life time, Jack's life time, to learn it, and another life time, his own, to live it.

Frustrating for those who loved him, Alma, Cassie, and of course most of all Jack, this lack of need of personal contact can be misinterpreted as lack of love, it’s not. Whether Jack understood this at the end is a perpetual question. I believe that in fact he did come to understand this basic difference between he and Ennis, and that this was one of the reasons he was attracted to him and loved him.

I tend to agree with you, even though there is not a shred of evidence in the screen play or short story to support it. It's just something that is so Jack. Also, I think Junior and Cassie understand the same thing about Ennis, and loved him all the same. Alma, on the other hand, needed more. I'd like to think Jack's Ma also saw and understood the same thing, in that moment of recognition when they first met, and understood the relationship between her son, and this laconic cowboy.

  Jackster. 

[Mimi.la.mite]

I really believe that-in spite of all these greater,let's say,social contacts-Ennis felt tremendously alone,not lonely;if in the second case,this was an option choosen by him,in the first one it was the result of having lost the love of his life.A situation that he only was able to realise and accept with all the consequences when it was already too late;an important enough reason as to have and feel an unbearable emptiness forever...

I agree with you MPJ. The hardest feeling is to realize that, never, or never again, you can say "I love you" to the one you love. And no one around, parents, kids.. can take the place of a love. It's an emptiness forever. You must stand it. If you can. Ennis can do it. He's a man who learned to stand his life, always. Even when the pain is unbearable.

  to you all.

[Inner_Me]

Thank you all for your comments!

I just found it hard to actually believe Ennis would not even keep contact with Alma Jr.
She's the one (and probably only one) from his family who actually understand him, atleast to some degree
(by the way, that would lead to the question if she knew what was going on, allthough that would deserve a separate thread,
if it doesn't exist already). She loves her daddy, and I hardly think Ennis could take it to push her away, too.

I totally forgot that he actually CHOSE to be alone (most of his life). I got stuck with the thought
of him being the victim  of loneliness. He's a victim in different terms, but he surely chose to stay by himself.

Would be interesting to know what he did after all of this, but a sequel would be the worst thing anybody could do to this story. 

[myprivatejack]

I agree with you MPJ. The hardest feeling is to realize that, never, or never again, you can say "I love you" to the one you love. And no one around, parents, kids.. can take the place of a love. It's an emptiness forever. You must stand it. If you can. Ennis can do it. He's a man who learned to stand his life, always. Even when the pain is unbearable.

  to you all.

You're right,Mimi. Ennis always chose the loneliness since he was very young,specially for his tragic family circumstances and got used to it somehow.But nothing can compare with the loneliness he felt after Jack's death;it's the difference-and sad difference-between something one chooses for his/her life because it goes implicit with your character-being alone-and something life takes to them when one looses a loving one,with no opportunity to choose-feeling lonely-.If my English skills allow it ,I think this is the great difference between Ennis two loneliness before and after having known Jack.

[myprivatejack]

Thank you all for your comments!

I just found it hard to actually believe Ennis would not even keep contact with Alma Jr.
She's the one (and probably only one) from his family who actually understand him, atleast to some degree
(by the way, that would lead to the question if she knew what was going on, allthough that would deserve a separate thread,
if it doesn't exist already). She loves her daddy, and I hardly think Ennis could take it to push her away, too.

I totally forgot that he actually CHOSE to be alone (most of his life). I got stuck with the thought
of him being the victim  of loneliness. He's a victim in different terms, but he surely chose to stay by himself.

Would be interesting to know what he did after all of this, but a sequel would be the worst thing anybody could do to this story. 

Thanks to you for having begun this thread ¡ Yes,I firmly believe Ennis kept contact with his daughter,because,as you say,she was the only one who understands him and because he had to learn how to be closer to the loved ones,after Jack's death.But always choosing as a greater chance the loneliness he was so used to.
  I agree with you;a sequel would be almost a crime against this movie.And much more now,that Heath is gone,because nobody but him could give such a rich and full life to Ennis.

[rimasworld]

Well, he was used to being alone, but I believe he was devastated and so sad because Jack was his one true love and by losing him Ennis actually lost part of himself. No one can replace your soulmate, your lover and just looking at those shirts and that postcard hanging in his closet made Ennis cry and all of us cry too.

[atalley]

I just finished watching it again this p.m., & it hit me really hard.  It's been a few mths. since I've seen it.  Yeah, I'm sure he was lonely & kept thinking "what if"...

[lancecowboy]

It just occur to me that I posted a while ago about Dick Proenneke ( March 27, 2009 and March 25, 2009 ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke

I see in him what was in Ennis, a doer who enjoys solitude.

Alone in the Wilderness

and a more recent visit by a fan.

Twin Lakes Alaska Dick Proenneke Cabin.wmv

I think it's important for us when trying to understand Ennis, to not judge him by our own standards, but to do as Jack did, to feel him as he would feel.

If Dick Proenneke can stand it for thirty years on his own, living with nothing but nature and his own  efforts, then surely Ennis can stand it living with only his girls, Jack's Ma, and his dream of Jack on Brokeback Mountain.

How lonely was Ennis at the end? Not at all. He was surround by all that mattered to him, and nothing that harmed him or threatened him. The only thing that brought him grief was the regret of missing out on the sweet life with Jack, but he swore to never let life slip by him again, that's why he would go to Junior's wedding, keep regular correspondence with Jack's Ma, and perhaps regular visits, too.

How lonely are we urbanites, living in cities surrounded by millions of strangers who we don't know, some we don't like, people who would harm us when given the opportunity, and some who pretend to be friends but would not hesitate to betray us for selfish gain?

Loneliness is measured by a state of mind, not the numbers of people. Ennis wasn't lonely at all. He had Jack for company all the rest of his life.

[lancecowboy]

Thanks to you for having begun this thread ¡ Yes,I firmly believe Ennis kept contact with his daughter,because,as you say,she was the only one who understands him and because he had to learn how to be closer to the loved ones,after Jack's death.But always choosing as a greater chance the loneliness he was so used to.
  I agree with you;a sequel would be almost a crime against this movie.And much more now,that Heath is gone,because nobody but him could give such a rich and full life to Ennis.

Although I can appreciate how you feel Inner_Me, and mpj, about a sequel or even fan fiction in alternate universes, I don't think it is proper to condemn those who attempt them. We all have our own way of dealing with PBS. To each his own. Live and let live. Let be. Let be.

[Romeo164]

Good point Lance. I think many people have a tough time differentiating between wanting being alone and being lonely. There are few who finds solace in being alone. That person probably knows what he might be missing out in terms of what the others were experiencing, but that is still his nature. It's a bitch to love someone like that though. You know they love you but could never return the love, at least not in the way you want them to.

[jackster]

Loneliness is measured by a state of mind, not the numbers of people.
Ennis wasn't lonely at all. He had Jack for company all the rest of his life.

          

Right on brother. 

BTW I bought that Dick Proenneke video a few years ago - absolutely amazing. Not only did he do all that stuff in the wilderness, by himself, he was able to film himself doing it - with a 16 mm camera! Remarkable!

And he would wake sometimes in grief,
sometimes with the old sense of joy and release;
the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

[lancecowboy]

         

Right on brother. 

BTW I bought that Dick Proenneke video a few years ago - absolutely amazing. Not only did he do all that stuff in the wilderness, by himself, he was able to film himself doing it - with a 16 mm camera! Remarkable!

And he would wake sometimes in grief,
sometimes with the old sense of joy and release;
the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

You bet, Jackster. Ennis was like Dick Proenneke, good with his hands, at ease with nature and with simply doing, not talking. I watched the video online and was fascinated with all the tools he made to do what he needed doing, like the jig to build the fire place, not to mention all the handles for the tools he used to build everything else. Ennis wasn't the carpenter that Dick was, but they are cut from the same cloth.

It is interesting that the quotation above reference only his dream states. But what about wringing it out hundreds of times? And all those waking hours, with nothing but those two shirts, that post card? I think Ennis would occupy himself somehow, doing more than just drinking beer after beer. When Junior came to visit two years after Jack's death, Ennis had a bottle of white wine in the fridge. And he drank only a little for the toast, without indulging like he and Jack used to. I think he was never much into drinking...only with Jack...and talking and all.

Dick Proenneke kept up a steady stream of journal and correspondence with a lady friend all his life. I'd like to think Ennis, setting up his new mail box, was starting his steady correspondence with Jack's Ma, and going back to visit, like she asked.

It is telling, that although Annie wrote Ennis to be such a sad lonely character in the opening prologue of the short story, she said of Heath's Ennis as more than what she envisioned, and signed her gift to him as Ennis, instead of Heath. I'd like to think that the movie's Ennis is the real Ennis that Annie wanted to create, but could not in the short story, and was pleasantly surprised by Heath's genius, and Ang Lee's gentle direction.

Regardless, in my own personal universe, there is only one Ennis. And you know who that is. 

[LauraLovesLedger]

I recently dreamed I WAS Ennis....and, as him, I felt like I often feel: lonely on one level of my consciousness...the part of myself that is governed by my personage, my day to day life, thoughts, emotions, the world around me, etc...but, truly not-lonely when in touch with the "inner me".  That is, hard done by, sure, and oftentimes as sad and lonely as one can get...ostensibly...but essentially, I think, very inured to the stoic life due to an inherent sense of responsibility to carry on, as well perhaps the plain old "used to it" factor.....and, ultimately, an epicenter belief that some things prevail over even death, that Jack hasn't really been reduced to ash interred on the grieving plain. 

Sometimes this core belief is weaker than at other times, but I guess Ennis and I must believe it, deep down. 

0therwise, I doubt Ennis would ever be seen sticking the number on his letterbox, EVEN with Mrs. Twist and his daughters to persevere for....his deep, deep love for Jack considered, he'd have up and fallen to pieces, stopped breathing, sooner or later after Jack's demise.  It would simply be too unthinkable to Ennis, the idea of living out his life, if he thought that all his love had been should just turn to ash with Jack's bones. 

At least that's what it feels like to me tonight.  In more optimistic times, I suppose I could see Ennis as just being intrinsically, all round un-lonesome, just that lone wolf, laconic kinda cowdy.  I don't know.  But most times, it feels as if Ennis Del Mar, the person, is a very lonely character forced to transcend his own personal grief and loneliness for the sake of other people he loves in the here and now, and due to a conviction that Brokeback Mountain had not been in vain.  A guy forced to overcome his sadness, and who is thus not truly sad. 

I know, I am so not making a lick of sense.    Forgive me....it's just been one of those days, filled with much PBS, and I can't think coherently, let alone write so, hehe.

 

Incidentally, Lance, would loooooove to see a new chapter from you!!  Your three so far are beautiful, and I can't wait til you write some more!!    

[jackster]

"You wanna' switch? I wouldn't mind sleepin' out there."

     then again, just to make sure Jack understood his desire . . .

"I wouldn't mind bein' out there."

    If this ain't the voice of a man who wants to be alone in the wilderness I don't know what is.

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions,
perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer."
    Henry David Thoreau

[WildCatIsle]

Ennis wasn't lonely at all. He had Jack for company all the rest of his life.

 As much poetry in this sentence in prose. So many thanks, LC! you brought me the tears 

[lancecowboy]

  for anyone who need one. 

Thanks again Jackster. The Thoreau quote is most apt. Ennis always marched to a different drummer. That's for certain.

Laura, I envy your dream of Ennis. I wish I could have one like that. You are quite right, I think, about Ennis's stoic nature. The "got to stand it" "stick it out" sense of duty to get on with the job, no matter how tough, is drilled into him since he was a little boy. Living alone, living with loneliness, was also drilled into him, especially after his parents died.

In a way, I think Ennis was both very lonely, and not very lonely at the same time, if that makes sense.

Ennis was very lonely by our standard, but not very lonely because he was cut from a different cloth, marching to a different drummer. To him, solitude is natural and peaceful, without the need to deal with other people's emotions, other people's prejudices, criticism, rejection...which was what he got from people all his life. Solitude was his castle. Jack knew this when they first met, and went knocking on his castle keep. It took a long time before Ennis let down the draw bridge, but by SNIT, Jack was in.

In my opinion, Ennis never let Jack outa his castle, not even after they were separated physically that summer, or all those times for the subsequent years. It's why he wrung it out hundreds of times, why he could stand having only a few high altitude f@#@#s a few times a year while Jack couldn't, why he carried on with dreams and memories of Jack. It's no different from all 'em other years when he had nothing by memory. The only difference, is that now the Jack in the castle is not just a fantasy, but a true love that he knew he could have had but lost because he was too afraid. That kinda regret can change a man, and change he did. He still enjoyed his solitude, but he also kept the draw bridge down, more open in any case, because now he knew, there are people out there who accepts him just the way he and Jack were, like Jack's Ma, and people who loves him, like Cassie and Junior. He was still not sure how to love, how to give love...that was Jack's department, but he was willing to respond with love, like when he asked Junior, "Does he love you?" It's not much, but Junior knew what it cost him.

Yes, Ennis was both very lonely and not very lonely...
...he would wake sometimes in grief,
sometimes with the old sense of joy and release;
the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

  y'all. I love talking about Ennis, and there ain't nowhere else but here that I can talk like this.