Author Topic: "Cure Pneumonia" - Aguirre (Read 22559 times)

ethan · « **on:** Feb 19, 2006, 12:30 AM »

Everytime I see BBM, I always feel there are some messages during this dialogue.

Jack: Bad news. Ain't much I can do about it up here, I guess

Aguirre: Ain't much you can do down there neither. Not unless you can cure pneumonia.

I am particularly interested in the way how Aquirre said "not unless you can cure pneumonia"

Any thought on this to enlighten?

jacktwist · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 06:31 AM »

Quote from: ethan on Feb 19, 2006, 12:30 AM

Everytime I see BBM, I always feel there are some messages during this dialogue.

Jack: Bad news. Ain't much I can do about it up here, I guess

Aguirre: Ain't much you can do down there neither. Not unless you can cure pneumonia.

I am particularly interested in the way how Aquirre said "not unless you can cure pneumonia"

Any thought on this to enlighten?

Hi Ethan,

Interesting one, isn't it?

I took it to be an allusion to the impossibility of Jack and Ennis' relationship when they finally come down from Brokeback Mountain.

"Aint much you can do down there neither." - You're not going to be able to carry on your relationship down there in the real world...

"Not unless you can cure pneumonia." - Unless, that is, you can perform a miracle... and that's never going to happen.

One of the most chilling parts of the film for me: the first glimpse of what will come for Jack and Ennis when they leave paradise.

Jack.

*Froggy* · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 11:23 AM »

Could it just be sarcasm?

ethan · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 12:14 PM »

Quote from: frog123 on Feb 19, 2006, 11:23 AM

Could it just be sarcasm?

Yes it could. The way how Aquirre said it didn't just mean "pneumonia" I get the ill feeling that Aquirre was refering to what he saw as a disease. Maybe it is a bit streching.

rikcub · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 01:14 PM »

Quote from: frog123 on Feb 19, 2006, 11:23 AM

Could it just be sarcasm?

I would have to think yes. I think it relates back to the thread about why didn't Aguirre expose them. He had them in place on the mountain...too late for changing employees...just wanted his sheep tended. I doubt Aguirre cared either way about Jacks uncle...he wanted Jack to stay on BBM and finish the summer.

Allan · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 01:19 PM »

Folks... Aquirre has come to Brokeback at Jack's mother's request to tell him that his Uncle Homer is in the hospital dyting of pneumonia... There's no sense in Jack coming down from the mountain... unless he has a cure for pneumonia. Allan

jimmypage · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 01:23 PM »

Quote from: frog123 on Feb 19, 2006, 11:23 AM

Could it just be sarcasm?

I think he's sarcastic and in some way also allusive,
I don't know how to explain..

jacktwist · « **Reply #7 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 01:31 PM »

Of course, it could just be sarcasm, but the thing that's holding me back from that is the sheer level of detail in this film.

From what I've seen so far, there's nothing in this film that isn't there for a reason, be it dialogue or shot composition. Having an interchange simply to display a minor character's sarcasm just seems not to fit.

coguaro · « **Reply #8 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:30 AM »

I have an "optimistic" interpretation of this. Although Aguirre is a cynical and hard person he seems to be more sage that he could appears. In fact he wait that Ennis and Jack stop their love manifestations before to go to the camp (and watch them with a binoculars) and it also seems that Aguirre never told to anyone about Ennis and Jack relation... I can imagine what could happen if Lureen daddy could saw Ennis/Jack!
Maybe with "cure pneumonia" Aguirre means, in a sarcastic way of course, that he comprises that Jack had the capability to "cure" Ennis hearth... Aguirre had the occasion to see Ennis before and after months in Brokeback mountains and he could found a great difference in his emotional state!

coguaro

septuaginarian · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 09:22 AM »

Could Aquirre have meant in a backhanded way, "Physician, cure yourself!"

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 10:45 AM »

If you notice how warmly they all were dressed when he rides up to tell Jack, vs. what he saw through the binoculars, it does give new an underlying meaning to pneumonia!

*Froggy* · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:42 PM »

Quote from: Cowboy Cody on Feb 20, 2006, 10:45 AM

If you notice how warmly they all were dressed when he rides up to tell Jack, vs. what he saw through the binoculars, it does give new an underlying meaning to pneumonia!

good point!

donnaread · « **Reply #12 on:** Apr 07, 2006, 01:16 PM »

I am just wondering if anyone else noticed this...when Aguirre is talking to Jack about his uncle, he (Aguirre) looks up where Ennis is on the mountain with his binoculars. Jack sees him look, and Jack gets this look on his face. I think Jack realizes that Aguirre had seen them making love earlier before Ennis rode off to the sheep. Jack looks back at Aguirre, and Aguirre gives him this knowing look before riding off. I think it took a great deal of courage on Jack's part to go back to Aguirre the next summer to ask for a job, but especially to ask if Ennis had been around. What do y'all think? Donna

Allan · « **Reply #13 on:** Apr 07, 2006, 03:26 PM »

Quote from: donnaread on Apr 07, 2006, 01:16 PM

I think it took a great deal of courage on Jack's part to go back to Aguirre the next summer to ask for a job, but especially to ask if Ennis had been around. What do y'all think? Donna

I think that the "looking for a job" part was a ruse. He's looking for Ennis, and it did take courage... but everything that Ennis and Jack did for each other took a certain amount of courage or... well... you know... when that "thing" took a-hold of them, they seem to loose all responsibilities for their actions. I mean, that in those moments they'd risk anything to be together. Allan

BBBOY · « **Reply #14 on:** Apr 07, 2006, 05:03 PM »

Quote from: jacktwist on Feb 19, 2006, 06:31 AM

Quote from: ethan on Feb 19, 2006, 12:30 AM
Everytime I see BBM, I always feel there are some messages during this dialogue.

Jack: Bad news. Ain't much I can do about it up here, I guess

Aguirre: Ain't much you can do down there neither. Not unless you can cure pneumonia.

I am particularly interested in the way how Aquirre said "not unless you can cure pneumonia"

Any thought on this to enlighten?

Hi Ethan,

Interesting one, isn't it?

I took it to be an allusion to the impossibility of Jack and Ennis' relationship when they finally come down from Brokeback Mountain.

"Aint much you can do down there neither." - You're not going to be able to carry on your relationship down there in the real world...

"Not unless you can cure pneumonia." - Unless, that is, you can perform a miracle... and that's never going to happen.

One of the most chilling parts of the film for me: the first glimpse of what will come for Jack and Ennis when they leave paradise.

Jack.

I like your take on this Jack. Believing that everything in this movie has some meaning to it, this makes that scene all the more understandable. I don't think Aguirre cares one way or the other about what Ennis and Jack are doing up on the mountain as long as his sheep are being taken care of and indeed he may be warning Jack that there the world they are living in up there and the one they will have to return to are complete opposites.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #15 on:** Apr 07, 2006, 08:17 PM »

Quote from: BBBOY on Apr 07, 2006, 05:03 PM

I don't think Aguirre cares one way or the other about what Ennis and Jack are doing up on the mountain as long as his sheep are being taken care of and indeed he may be warning Jack that there the world they are living in up there and the one they will have to return to are complete opposites.

I have been saying that for months now and everyone thought my brain was fried! Now that you Yanks have the DVD, listen to the tone of voice of Aguirre when he comes up onto the mountain to tell Jack about his uncle. Then, you tell me his tone is one of a raging homophobe who would kill a queer in a split second. Aguirre was ONLY pissed because the boys weren't doing their job. At that point he could have said, 'Look Twist, you boys stop stemming the rose and do what I am paying you to do.' But he said nothing because he didn't care what they did on their own time.

And that is my opinion based on tonal evidence and I'm a sticken to it.

wyomingplains · « **Reply #16 on:** Apr 08, 2006, 10:49 AM »

Quote from: ethan on Feb 19, 2006, 12:30 AM

Everytime I see BBM, I always feel there are some messages during this dialogue.

Jack: Bad news. Ain't much I can do about it up here, I guess

Aguirre: Ain't much you can do down there neither. Not unless you can cure pneumonia.

I am particularly interested in the way how Aquirre said "not unless you can cure pneumonia"

Any thought on this to enlighten?

I thought that "Ain't much you can do down there neither" was for Aguirre to point out that Jack was down in the camp while Ennis herded the sheep. Kind of sarcasm as he made it very clear earlier in the trailer who was herding and who was in the camp.
/L

NoReins · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2006, 02:50 AM »

Quote from: donnaread on Apr 07, 2006, 01:16 PM

I am just wondering if anyone else noticed this...when Aguirre is talking to Jack about his uncle, he (Aguirre) looks up where Ennis is on the mountain with his binoculars. Jack sees him look, and Jack gets this look on his face. I think Jack realizes that Aguirre had seen them making love earlier before Ennis rode off to the sheep. Jack looks back at Aguirre, and Aguirre gives him this knowing look before riding off.

I noticed this for the first time last night - was going to start a new thread but then found this one.

Just after Aguirre looks through his binoculars to where Ennis is on the mountain Jack definitely looks round to where he and Ennis made love earlier and realises that Aguirre must have seen them. When he looks back at Aguirre his eyes are seeking confirmation of that - and I reckon he gets it both from the look on Aguirre's face and the little nod he gives.

It's been discussed somewhere else that Jack never tells Ennis what Aguirre said about stemming the rose - which is almost fair enough since it happened 3 years before he saw Ennis again - but he had plenty of opportunity to tell Ennis about Aguirre seeing them and never did. Not surprising, really, since it would definitely have scared Ennis off - and that's the last thing Jack would want to do....

donnaread · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2006, 12:56 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on May 02, 2006, 02:50 AM

Quote from: donnaread on Apr 07, 2006, 01:16 PM
I am just wondering if anyone else noticed this...when Aguirre is talking to Jack about his uncle, he (Aguirre) looks up where Ennis is on the mountain with his binoculars. Jack sees him look, and Jack gets this look on his face. I think Jack realizes that Aguirre had seen them making love earlier before Ennis rode off to the sheep. Jack looks back at Aguirre, and Aguirre gives him this knowing look before riding off.

Just after Aguirre looks through his binoculars to where Ennis is on the mountain Jack definitely looks round to where he and Ennis made love earlier and realises that Aguirre must have seen them. When he looks back at Aguirre his eyes are seeking confirmation of that - and I reckon he gets it both from the look on Aguirre's face and the little nod he gives.

Yes, NoReins...you said it better than I did.

Donna

welshwitch · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2006, 03:09 PM »

Yes, and Aguirre with his knowledge is far more likely to make waves later for Ennis, since he like Ennis lives in Wyoming and Jack is well out of reach in Terxas.

I took the " cure pneumonia" comment to be a dismissive one, suggesting his contempt for Jack, one of the " pair of deuces" he's clearly despised frm the beginning. And maybe there's a hint of sadism in it - telling Jack something that may affect him but about which he's powerless to do anything - Aguirre has Jack where he wants him. He behaves in the same sort of way the next year, emphasising his power over Jack and dislike of him and Ennis.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2006, 08:45 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on May 03, 2006, 03:09 PM

Yes, and Aguirre with his knowledge is far more likely to make waves later for Ennis, since he like Ennis lives in Wyoming and Jack is well out of reach in Terxas.

I took the " cure pneumonia" comment to be a dismissive one, suggesting his contempt for Jack, one of the " pair of deuces" he's clearly despised frm the beginning. And maybe there's a hint of sadism in it - telling Jack something that may affect him but about which he's powerless to do anything - Aguirre has Jack where he wants him. He behaves in the same sort of way the next year, emphasising his power over Jack and dislike of him and Ennis.

I couldn't possibly agree with you less.

Listen to his tone of voice. Not hostile, condesending, nothing. Aguirre was angry because the boys weren't doing what they were being paid to do. And, he couldn't have been THAT angry about that or surely the no nonsense businessman, Aguirre, would have said something about that to Jack.

NoReins · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2006, 02:26 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on May 03, 2006, 08:45 PM

Quote from: welshwitch on May 03, 2006, 03:09 PM
Yes, and Aguirre with his knowledge is far more likely to make waves later for Ennis, since he like Ennis lives in Wyoming and Jack is well out of reach in Terxas.

I took the " cure pneumonia" comment to be a dismissive one, suggesting his contempt for Jack, one of the " pair of deuces" he's clearly despised frm the beginning. And maybe there's a hint of sadism in it - telling Jack something that may affect him but about which he's powerless to do anything - Aguirre has Jack where he wants him. He behaves in the same sort of way the next year, emphasising his power over Jack and dislike of him and Ennis.

I couldn't possibly agree with you less.

Listen to his tone of voice. Not hostile, condesending, nothing. Aguirre was angry because the boys weren't doing what they were being paid to do. And, he couldn't have been THAT angry about that or surely the no nonsense businessman, Aguirre, would have said something about that to Jack.

You're right about Aguirre not seeming too hostile in his tone, but the look on his face seems to suggest that he's less than enamoured by what he's seen. He doesn't say anything then, sure, but when Jack goes looking for work again the following year he makes the comment about "stemming the rose" and tells Jack to "get the hell out of my trailer" - which, to me at least, suggests someone who would not be willing to employ someone that he knew was gay (or at least knew was having homosexual sex) His tone in that scene is definitely at least halfway to hostile too.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2006, 03:00 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on May 04, 2006, 02:26 AM

You're right about Aguirre not seeming too hostile in his tone, but the look on his face seems to suggest that he's less than enamoured by what he's seen. He doesn't say anything then, sure, but when Jack goes looking for work again the following year he makes the comment about "stemming the rose" and tells Jack to "get the hell out of my trailer" - which, to me at least, suggests someone who would not be willing to employ someone that he knew was gay (or at least knew was having homosexual sex) His tone in that scene is definitely at least halfway to hostile too.

You are paying these two people to do a job. When you go up there they aren't working. You can assume this isn't the first time they "took a break" from working in the middle of the day when they should have been working. Then, they come down off of the mountain and you discover the number of sheep isn't what you had been hoping for either. The loss of one sheep is a lot of money.

Would you hire them again?

Even when Aguirre tells Jack he saw them, he gets a slight grin on his face before the says, "You boys sure found a way to pass the time up there." Then he says, you weren't being paid to let the dogs babysit the sheep while you two stemmed the rose. Again a comment on their work habits. He could just as easily said, you weren't being paid to let the dogs babysit the sheep while you two played poker.

Look at the scene; Aguirre sees them, looks at his watch, waits a respectable amount of time to let the boys finish, get dressed and go back to work, comes over to Jack, tells him what Jack's mother wanted him to tell Jack and leaves. He didn't even want to embarrass Jack by telling him they needed to do more work and less fooling around.

No, I just do not see Aguirre as this evil homophobic villain.

NoReins · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2006, 03:18 AM »

All very valid points, Patriot1, but it's the "get the hell out of my trailer" that still makes me think that Aguirre is not exactly "gay friendly".

shieldmaid · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2006, 07:19 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on May 04, 2006, 03:18 AM

All very valid points, Patriot1, but it's the "get the hell out of my trailer" that still makes me think that Aguirre is not exactly "gay friendly".

Yes, indeed--and the closeup on his face after he first sees Ennis and Jack tussling at their camp, when he slowly lowers his binoculars, suggests to me that he's not just taken aback but a little alarmed by what he's witnessed.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2006, 07:38 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on May 04, 2006, 03:18 AM

All very valid points, Patriot1, but it's the "get the hell out of my trailer" that still makes me think that Aguirre is not exactly "gay friendly".

Well, I wasn't suggesting he was going to celebrate the boys 25 anniversary with them.

All I am saying is that he was more concerned that they weren't working when they should be. He has an investment to protect. He is just a cold hard businessman who knows that sort of thing goes on.

NoReins · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2006, 07:46 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on May 04, 2006, 07:38 AM

Well, I wasn't suggesting he was going to celebrate the boys 25 anniversary with them.

donnaread · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2006, 10:00 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on May 04, 2006, 03:00 AM

[
No, I just do not see Aguirre as this evil homophobic villain.

Mayabe not, but why was he so ugly to Jack the next summer...was it just because he thought Jack was a lousy worker?

Donna

Patriot1 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2006, 11:00 AM »

Quote from: donnaread on May 04, 2006, 10:00 AM

Quote from: Patriot1 on May 04, 2006, 03:00 AM
[
No, I just do not see Aguirre as this evil homophobic villain.

Mayabe not, but why was he so ugly to Jack the next summer...was it just because he thought Jack was a lousy worker?

Donna

Donna, I swear I believe that is all it was and I don't think he was nasty at all. Why would an evil homophobic villain see the boys getting it on, look at his watch, give them plenty of time to finish, get dressed, get back to work before he came into camp?

Next summer Jack shows up and Aguirre has no intention of hiring him because he wasn't doing his job last year so why hire him yet a third year? So, get the hell out of my trailer, I not hiring you to go up there to have fun.

If this man was a homophobe like people say, when it was just Jack and he in the trailer, surely he would have said something outrageous to jack. But he didn't. He simply said they weren't getting paid to stem the rose. He could have also said something up at camp when he came up at Jack's mom's request. He and Jack were alone. But he didn't. He was nice catually...for a no nonscense businessman.

Yes Donna, I truly do.