Topic: What do you think about their aging?

[Toadily]

I heard a critiscm of it but i thought they aged them very well.  I heard they wanted Jack
to age more cause he was more openly frustrated in his life, plus I was thinking although
Ennis was lonely he did get to live alone where Jack had to keep up this life with Lureen
and that can be harder.

I mean in that last scene they defintely look late 30's to me.

[tpe]

I heard a critiscm of it but i thought they aged them very well.  I heard they wanted Jack
to age more cause he was more openly frustrated in his life, plus I was thinking although
Ennis was lonely he did get to live alone where Jack had to keep up this life with Lureen
and that can be harder.

I mean in that last scene they defintely look late 30's to me.

It is too difficult to age Gyllenhaal.  They did the best they can, in my opinion, but the mustache did not look convincing.  However, watch for the subtle paunch developing on Jack's middle.  It is a wonderful detail that Proulx herself brought up in her essay that accompanied the screenplay. 

The slight changes in hairstyles are very well done, especially in the last shot of Jack (when he sees Ennis leaving on their last meeting.)  Also, pay special attention to the hairstyles of Lureen and her mother.  (Especially her mother's: priceless!)

Ledger definitely looked older later in the film.  It had as much to do with his subtle acting adjustments as with the make-up.

[Toadily]

You know i can see people put off by the stash but as someone who well remembers the 70's
men did look like that, look at Welcome Back Kotter look or Room 222, it almost looks fake
but it was the look, think Burt Reynolds. 

[*Froggy*]

think Burt Reynolds. 

Ewwwwew! I never quite liked him!

Cannot wait to see Jack's belly and Heath's white-ish hair!

[Toadily]

The short story says Jack got a paunch but Ennis stayed thin, which fits their lifestyles.
And the movie stayed true to that. 

[tpe]

Toadily and frog123,

A friend of mine had said jokingly that they should have just left Gyllenhaal as he is, without an attempt to age him.  I personally think the attempt to portray Jack aging was successful as a whole.

I mention the last scene because you get two different views of Jack (age 19 versus age 39) in quick succession, since his last shot comes after the embrace flashback.  You get an appreciation for the attempt at aging once you see this juxtaposition. 

In his last shot, Jack/Gyllenhaal is superbly world-weary and worn out.  The NY Times reviewer put it best: you see in his face a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment.  Indeed, very wonderfully said...

[waterwalkingjesus]

I think they could have done more facially to age them, but I liked Jake's little belly. Very believable, overall, although they still looked fairly young.

[Toadily]

Well you know 39 isn't that old really!  Jon Stewart is 43!

[stationbbm]

Aha!  Something that I can add.  I read an interview last week by Mr. Ledger who spoke specifically to this "aging" question.  He was very deliberate in trying to age Ennis, not through physical attributes because age 19 to 39 would not offer much in the way of aging.  Rather, Leger tries to age Ennis through his clinch-fisted voice.  Ledger worked very carefully through the film to progressively change Ennis's voice so that as he sounds younger and more audible on BBM, presumably the audience can make out most of what he says. But as you move through the film, it becomes more and more difficult as his voice becomes less understandable.  I forget which interview I saw on the web, but Ledger talked at length about working on the accent, voice inflection and gradual disintegration in his audibility.  He paralleled the transformation in voice to Ennis's being more progressively closed and withdrawn over time.  This continues to reinforce the significant and compelling "investment" Ledger delivered to this role...

That being said, this means everyone on this forum needs to go back to the theater (for the nth time) and now listen astutely for this change in Ennis's voice through the course of the film...not that I'm twisting anyone's arm to convince in going back.  Just another thing to watch for....

stationbbm

[natalia]

In the last scene of the movie, you can see that Ennis was *really* aged but not in a fake way. When they close up on his face, his skin is all grainy and not smooth/youthful which I thought was a really good, subtle way to age him.

The Jackstache is priceless. I can't get enough.

[Toadily]

I'm partial to the stash cause i grew up in the 70's!  It was a hideous look realy but it brings it all back to me.
the whole mr Kotter thing, remember that episode of friends when they had Ross have a stash?  I mean that gets
a big laugh cause we know!!!

[*Froggy*]

I'm partial to the stash cause i grew up in the 70's!  It was a hideous look realy but it brings it all back to me.
the whole mr Kotter thing, remember that episode of friends when they had Ross have a stash?  I mean that gets
a big laugh cause we know!!!

That episode was hillarious!
Poor Ross...he looked so cool! Way.......no way!

[tpe]

Aha!  Something that I can add.  I read an interview last week by Mr. Ledger who spoke specifically to this "aging" question.  He was very deliberate in trying to age Ennis, not through physical attributes because age 19 to 39 would not offer much in the way of aging.  Rather, Leger tries to age Ennis through his clinch-fisted voice.  Ledger worked very carefully through the film to progressively change Ennis's voice so that as he sounds younger and more audible on BBM, presumably the audience can make out most of what he says. But as you move through the film, it becomes more and more difficult as his voice becomes less understandable.  I forget which interview I saw on the web, but Ledger talked at length about working on the accent, voice inflection and gradual disintegration in his audibility.  He paralleled the transformation in voice to Ennis's being more progressively closed and withdrawn over time.  This continues to reinforce the significant and compelling "investment" Ledger delivered to this role...

That being said, this means everyone on this forum needs to go back to the theater (for the nth time) and now listen astutely for this change in Ennis's voice through the course of the film...not that I'm twisting anyone's arm to convince in going back.  Just another thing to watch for....

stationbbm

Agreed!  I'm watching it with 2 friends on Saturday, and with 5 friends on Sunday.

Yes, Ledger appears to have put in a great deal of work doing a graduated change in voice, tone, and actions so as to simulate an aging Ennis.  He almost mumbles inaudibly in the end, except when passion is demanded (as in the case of the final meeting), in which case, you get the impression that he was about to explode (like a dam about to give way) with all the pent-up feelings/emotions he just could not express/release.

You really get the impression that he has quite literally aged 20 years in this film.

[Toadily]

Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them. 

[tpe]

Was Gyllenhaal's mustache fake or did he really grow one for these scenes.

I though it was an obvious fake.  But I really don't know...

If we do not arrive at a quick consensus, then I shall have to pose this question as a separate thread (consider this a threat!) 

[dirtbiker]

I believe it's real - he has very thick dark hair and usually guys like that are able to grow thick bushy beards/moustaches

[*Froggy*]

Was Gyllenhaal's mustache fake or did he really grow one for these scenes.

I though it was an obvious fake.  But I really don't know...

If we do not arrive at a quick consensus, then I shall have to pose this question as a separate thread (consider this a threat!) 

Dunno...will search the web for info!

[natalia]

Was Gyllenhaal's mustache fake or did he really grow one for these scenes.

I though it was an obvious fake.  But I really don't know...

If we do not arrive at a quick consensus, then I shall have to pose this question as a separate thread (consider this a threat!) 

Dunno...will search the web for info!

hmm I always thought it was real... though maybe I am just bad at spotting fake moustaches?

[tpe]

I believe it's real - he has very thick dark hair and usually guys like that are able to grow thick bushy beards/moustaches

He perpetually sports a face stubble!  He certainly could have grown one pretty easily... 

[Toadily]

It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence.  Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce!  Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify.  If that is so that is wild! 

[tpe]

It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence.  Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce!  Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify.  If that is so that is wild! 

What I gathered from some of the interviews is that they did most of the sex/kissing scenes early on.  Not sure which scene they did first.  Do verify.

[*Froggy*]

Cannot find any mention of a fake moustache on the internet...could be a real one!

Shall we ask on Jake Gyllenhaal's official website?

[tpe]

Shall we ask on Jake Gyllenhaal's official website?

A zillion people have probably asked him this.  Why not?  Irritating him a bit more wouldn't hurt at this point.  They might have already posted it on his website!

[*Froggy*]

Shall we ask on Jake Gyllenhaal's official website?

A zillion people have probably asked him this.  Why not?  Irritating him a bit more wouldn't hurt at this point.  They might have already posted it on his website!

What...do you mean there are other BBM addicts around?
No way!
 

[stationbbm]

It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence.  Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce!  Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify.  If that is so that is wild! 

I can answer this question.  The very first scene they shot according to Ledger was the fight that he had with Alma in the kitchen.  He commented that he thought it was strange to have to "start" with being older and then work backwards to the younger BBM scenes.  Not sure of the logic but Lee was calling the shots on which scenes were to be filmed in what sequence.  The reason that Ledger remembers this so vividly is because I think he and Gyllenhaal were joking out loud about how they would start with easier scenes with fewer lines and fewer dramatic requirements (i.e., the first seven minutes where nothing is said), but Lee walked by their trailer and laughingly told Ledger that he'd be doing the kitchen scene with Michelle as the first shot, requiring him to then get his head into a completely different scene, different emotion, different everything.

stationbbm

[Toadily]

It might be fake cause they don't shoot in sequence.  Like I heard the first scene they shot
was the one where Jack turns up after hearing about the divorce!  Did anyone hear this too, I wil try to
verify.  If that is so that is wild! 

I can answer this question.  The very first scene they shot according to Ledger was the fight that he had with Alma in the kitchen.  He commented that he thought it was strange to have to "start" with being older and then work backwards to the younger BBM scenes.  Not sure of the logic but Lee was calling the shots on which scenes were to be filmed in what sequence.  The reason that Ledger remembers this so vividly is because I think he and Gyllenhaal were joking out loud about how they would start with easier scenes with fewer lines and fewer dramatic requirements (i.e., the first seven minutes where nothing is said), but Lee walked by their trailer and laughingly told Ledger that he'd be doing the kitchen scene with Michelle as the first shot, requiring him to then get his head into a completely different scene, different emotion, different everything.

stationbbm

Wow, that is amazing they are able to get into character that quick.  Well maybe it was such a damn rellief to finish filming the aging sequences they were more able to create this idylic Brokeback later!

[tpe]

I can answer this question.  The very first scene they shot according to Ledger was the fight that he had with Alma in the kitchen.  He commented that he thought it was strange to have to "start" with being older and then work backwards to the younger BBM scenes.  Not sure of the logic but Lee was calling the shots on which scenes were to be filmed in what sequence.  The reason that Ledger remembers this so vividly is because I think he and Gyllenhaal were joking out loud about how they would start with easier scenes with fewer lines and fewer dramatic requirements (i.e., the first seven minutes where nothing is said), but Lee walked by their trailer and laughingly told Ledger that he'd be doing the kitchen scene with Michelle as the first shot, requiring him to then get his head into a completely different scene, different emotion, different everything.

stationbbm

Thanks stationbbm for the information.

Lee must have had some reason for filming this pretty dramatic scene first...

[Liam56]

Toadily and frog123,

A friend of mine had said jokingly that they should have just left Gyllenhaal as he is, without an attempt to age him.  I personally think the attempt to portray Jack aging was successful as a whole.

I mention the last scene because you get two different views of Jack (age 19 versus age 39) in quick succession, since his last shot comes after the embrace flashback.  You get an appreciation for the attempt at aging once you see this juxtaposition. 

In his last shot, Jack/Gyllenhaal is superbly world-weary and worn out.  The NY Times reviewer put it best: you see in his face a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment.  Indeed, very wonderfully said...

Hey TPE---

I read this a few days ago and had difficulty finding it, but finally located it.  I found this quote from the NYT very interesting and I have been thinking about it.  What's your take?  Do you really feel that at their last encounter in 1983, Jack's face showed "a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment?" 

[Liam56]

Hey Toadily and Frog,

I didn't mean to leave you out of the discussion either since TPE addressed his comment to you.  Feel free to comment as well.

Pleasant dreams!

Liam56

[tpe]

Hey TPE---

I read this a few days ago and had difficulty finding it, but finally located it.  I found this quote from the NYT very interesting and I have been thinking about it.  What's your take?  Do you really feel that at their last encounter in 1983, Jack's face showed "a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment?" 

Hello Liam56.  I do love this statement from the NYT review!  I do think that at that moment, both hope and disappointment coexisted in Jack.  I am aware that a number of people think that at that point, Jack had lost hope on Ennis and was ready to move on and share a life with another person.  But I think the NYT comment is closer to how I feel: Jack never lost hope even if he was always inevitably disappointed.  This is why I love the character of Jack so much.  He was less complex than Ennis, but he gives all of us hope.  Let be Let be.