Topic: The word "Quit"

[LuvJackNasty]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed already, if so please point me in the right direction.

I was watching their last scene together the other night and something got me thinking about the word "quit". Ennis tells Jack in the earlier days he'd just quit the jobs but he can't quit this one. It seems weird that he's putting so much importance on the child support at a time when both girls are nearing 18 {if my timeline is correct}. I just started to wonder why at this time is he not willing to quit his job? I know he is not well to do and maybe jobs are hard/harder to come by. I guess it could also be he's decided to be committed to keeping this job.

 I was also wondering if that is why Jack used "quit" when he said "I wish I knew how to quit you." {I think that line was discussed} Ennis used to quit his jobs because he can get another one & his time with Jack was important enough to do that. Jack not being able to quit Ennis, to me, means there isn't another one. But sometimes when you get so tired and frustrated with a job you just want to quit because the ends no longer justify the means- maybe like the relationship? Sort of like Jack questioning his own commitment?  I hope I am making sense because it's been bugging me for a few days and "I can't quit this one & I wish I knew how to quit you" just jumped out at me. I'm probably reading too much into it.

Thanks

[Toadily]

That's a really interesting point.  Yeah, well in the 60's it was easier to get jobs than the 80's.  SO it might have been that, but also
being middle aged Ennis might be more cautious about making changes.  Plus I suspect he also was eager to get away from Alma and more willing to go. 

[n061857]

Additionally,  Ennis is older, probably more responsible.  It may have been harder for him to find work when he was younger.  He also might have gotten a bad reputation as an employee, if he keeps quitting his jobs.  Word gets out.  I'm sure there are only so many ranches in the area, and as Ennis can only find his way around a coffee pot........he won't go anywhere else for a job.

Interesting commentary on the use of the term, "quit".  Jack wishes he could quit Ennis, just like Ennis wishes he could quit the job but love is a force of nature. 

[tpe]

Yes, I would think thast as Ennis got older, the jobs would have probably gone to younger, stronger ranch hands seeking employment.  As for child support, I think Ennis just used this to illustrate the difference between them as far as money was concerned.

The painful part about this was that Jack was willing to throw away everything to be with Ennis -- money probably was of little comfort deep down for Jack.  Thus, hearing talk of money from Ennis probably did not get too far in capturing Jack's sympathies, because he had always made Ennis understand that he was the only one for him.

Jack: 'I wish I knew how to quit you.'

Ennis: 'Then why don't you...'


SUBTEXT RESPONSE: Jack: <<'Because I love you.'>>

[n061857]

  Thus, hearing talk of money from Ennis probably did not get too far in capturing Jack's sympathies, because he had always made Ennis understand that he was the only one for him.

It's always easier to say you don't care about money when you have it.  Ennis didn't want extravagance and gave up as much as he could, as long as he could still put food on the table

[tpe]

It's always easier to say you don't care about money when you have it.  Ennis didn't want extravagance and gave up as much as he could, as long as he could still put food on the table

In the case of Jack, I think it was easy.

He offered his money to Ennis that first summer even though he himself was hard up.

He offered to divorce Lureen and take the divorce settlement to start up a cow and calf operation with Ennis.

He never had a problem going back to his parents' ranch and helping out -- he was used to the poverty and he probably enjoyed it as a nice change.

He was ready to divorce Lureen and move back to his parents' ranch with the Texas ranch neighbor.  The hard work and poverty did not faze him even then -- and without Ennis.

I think the above instances show that Jack did not value money that much relative to other things -- love, notably.

[LuvJackNasty]

Thanks for the replies. I have that scene downloaded on my pc and watch it sometimes- I guess to torment myself because it breaks my heart everytime. I guess the more you watch it you notice different things.  Thanks again- I love seeing all the different viewpoints/interpretation on this board.

[ethan]

What really breaks my heart is that Jack did "quit" Ennis because of his death.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

[aimi15]

What really breaks my heart is that Jack did "quit" Ennis because of his death.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Never in his heart though...that was big enough to go on forever... :'(

[*Froggy*]

What really breaks my heart is that Jack did "quit" Ennis because of his death.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

I can hear Celine singing in the background...

Every night in my dreams
I see you, I feel you,
That is how I know you go on

Far across the distance
And spaces between us
You have come to show you go on

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the heart does go on
Once more you open the door
And you’re here in my heart
And my heart will go on and on

Love can touch us one time
And last for a lifetime
And never let go till we’re gone

Love was when I loved you
One true time I hold to
In my life we’ll always go on

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the heart does go on
Once more you open the door
And you’re here in my heart
And my heart will go on and on

You’re here, there’s nothing I fear,
And I know that my heart will go on
We’ll stay forever this way
You are safe in my heart
And my heart will go on and on

[ethan]

Never in his heart though...that was big enough to go on forever... :'(

True. I don't think in Jack's heart he wanted to quit - he just could not.

At the end, Jack was indeed gone.  :'( :'( :'(

[LuvJackNasty]

I can hear Celine singing in the background...

Every night in my dreams
I see you, I feel you,
That is how I know you go on

Far across the distance
And spaces between us
You have come to show you go on

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the heart does go on
Once more you open the door
And you’re here in my heart
And my heart will go on and on

Love can touch us one time
And last for a lifetime
And never let go till we’re gone

Love was when I loved you
One true time I hold to
In my life we’ll always go on

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the heart does go on
Once more you open the door
And you’re here in my heart
And my heart will go on and on

You’re here, there’s nothing I fear,
And I know that my heart will go on
We’ll stay forever this way
You are safe in my heart
And my heart will go on and on

Frog,

Did you see the video that someone put together on Youtube with that song? I don't have the link- I found it the other night when I was looking for the kissing scene for a friend of mine. I was bawling!  :'(

[*Froggy*]

Frog,

Did you see the video that someone put together on Youtube with that song? I don't have the link- I found it the other night when I was looking for the kissing scene for a friend of mine. I was bawling!  :'(

<OT> Yes I have seen it x

[youbet]

Hi all!! i am new to this forum and am really overwhelmed - went through quite a few heart touching topics and this was always in the mind since i watched the movie first time (a year ago may be) Please excuse me if the topic has been already covered...

I dont think Jack quit Ennis.

Imagine Jack and Ennis as real life couples - now we haven't seen the two having any serious arguments till this scene happens which is quite strange because no matter how loving a couple may be, having an argument (even a heated one) once in a while is normal. There can be a few reasons - firstly they met too little so avoided argument and wanted to make the most of whatever time they got, secondly Ennis spoke very less forget about arguments, third - knowing ennis, jack didn't bring up topics which would trouble ennis.... or the movie / short story (both are short versions) dont really have scope of showing or describing their meetings in details so real life jack and ennis might have argued but we haven't seen.

Isn't it quite possible that the final confrontation was just a lover's spat .. may be a rare one as far as their relationship goes - rare because of any of the reasons i was talking about in the last paragraph
What both of them talked about was true .. its true that Jack didn't get enough of Ennis , true that Jack always tried but Ennis shied away from commitments .. though Ennis was extremely committed to jack in his own way which even Jack would appreciate and perhaps he knew. Jack had strayed and Ennis had come to know .. he was angry about it ( I mean they really behaved like a normal couple) Ennis was truly nothing nowhere. Well there was a confrontation - no relationship (and this one was so complex and difficult one) could be lovey dovey.

Jack we had seen slowly changing to a more authoritative demeanor , being more vocal - growing up may be from the boyish charming temperament ( We had seen in the Thanksgiving scene) ; Ennis on the other hand has a serious complaint - mexico... By alleging Jack signifies possessiveness and very close to love IMO ( I mean you cant expect ennis to say you are mine), also he holds up jack's offence in sharp contrast to his faithfulness , commitment and sacrifice (nothing. nowhere)

Jack says - i wish i knew how to quit , means he doesn't know yet ! he has just been exposed by his lover and has the right to be angry and put some blame back ! how many time two people in love can utter such phrases .. husbands and wives must be having such exchanges umpteen times. Remember this whole thing started because jack wanted to see ennis in august and ennis was postponing things to november. Wanting to see your loved one more often doesnt come anywhere close to any desire of quitting

And Ennis "why dont you .. why dont you just let me be huh"? sounds completely opposite to what he says ..He definitely doesnt want Jack to quit him - he cries , breaks down and hugs back Jack again

Now there are two problems why the result is inconclusive . Jack unfortunately dies in an accident and Jack's ma speaks about a second person ( which could be a real person or Jack might have randomly mentioned)

If Jack were to quit ennis he could have done it after they parted the first time , or after the divorce .. why now?

My god i have been so verbose... your thoughts on this if any

[jackster]

Howdy youbet, welcome to the forum.
As you can imagine this question has been discussed much as it is one of the central mysteries of the movie (did he or didn't he "quit" Ennis). Many are convinced either one way or the other and, true to the character of the film, much is left to the thoughts and interpretation of the viewer - such is the nature of great art.

You present a good case, Jack doesn't know how to quit him, never really figures it out, and maybe isn't convinced himself that he really wants to, any more than Ennis really wants him too. It's a dance to the death and even then Ennis can't quit, in fact Ennis becomes even more obsessed after his journey to Lighting Flat.

I agree with your view, though I know there many (including Jake), who believe that Jack was not only mentally ready, but had moved on emotionally as well. After six years it's still easy to imagine it both ways, choose your fantasy. 

[stephan]

Hi all!! i am new to this forum and am really overwhelmed - went through quite a few heart touching topics and this was always in the mind since i watched the movie first time (a year ago may be) Please excuse me if the topic has been already covered...

Welcome to the ennisjack forum, youbet 

Jack says - i wish i knew how to quit , means he doesn't know yet ! he has just been exposed by his lover and has the right to be angry and put some blame back ! how many time two people in love can utter such phrases .. husbands and wives must be having such exchanges umpteen times. Remember this whole thing started because jack wanted to see ennis in august and ennis was postponing things to november. Wanting to see your loved one more often doesnt come anywhere close to any desire of quitting

Your comparison to the arguments between husbands and wives has me practically convinced you are right ! I've always wanted Jack to be forever attached to Ennis, attached as in soul-mate. At the same time, it also appeared inevitable and highly likely that after so much frustration, Jack had "moved on" (ugh, I detest that expression !  ) But frustration over what ? Not enough love ? I don't think so. Not enough sex ? Definitely. Not enough courage to set up a ranch together ? Maybe, but though Jack himself always talked about it, but never did it with anyone, Ennis or anyone else. So... no, Jack hasn't quit Ennis ! 

[youbet]

Howdy youbet, welcome to the forum.
Many are convinced either one way or the other and, true to the character of the film, much is left to the thoughts and interpretation of the viewer - such is the nature of great art.

Welcome to the ennisjack forum, youbet  

At the same time, it also appeared inevitable and highly likely that after so much frustration, Jack had "moved on" (ugh, I detest that expression !   ) But frustration over what ? Not enough love ? I don't think so. Not enough sex ? Definitely. Not enough courage to set up a ranch together ? Maybe, but though Jack himself always talked about it, but never did it with anyone, Ennis or anyone else. So... no, Jack hasn't quit Ennis !  

Thanks for the warm welcome   like the views of both Stephen and Jackstar , especially what you said about the film being a great piece of art left for viewers to interprete. Had a chance to watch the movie yesterday and i myself am thinking about the second possibility sad but true ( i wish i could find some stronger logic against this) One big reason why Jack could have moved on is that Jack was the person who knew who he was , he accepted himself as a man who would be attracted to other men. This way, Jack had "options" in his life - it was upto him to decide when he would be open to "the other options" ; Ennis might still have continued to be his first love or major love inspite of quitting. (Jack went to male hustlers post divorce scene, there was perhaps randall) But Ennis was different, he thought he wasn't queer , he never looked for any other man or even woman per say .. i think ennis was Jack-sexual!! (somebody had coined this word in this forum but very rightly put) ...

Sometimes even if you love somebody madly but you find lack of commitment from that person ( lack ..in terms of your expectation) you do try to move on while you continue to cherish the one you love

The only other possibility which perhaps has not been discussed is - did Jack say those words as a last desperate attempt to get some reaction from Ennis ?? .. shortly before this he had said that the famous"the truth is sometimes i miss ... hardly stand it" (another desperate attempt ). So Jack was bringing up the topics i guess. I have a hunch that this confrontation had also brought about some changes in Ennis, had Jack lived , could have been some positive moves from Ennis IMO

[Forever]

Thanks for the warm welcome   like the views of both Stephen and Jackstar , especially what you said about the film being a great piece of art left for viewers to interprete. Had a chance to watch the movie yesterday and i myself am thinking about the second possibility sad but true ( i wish i could find some stronger logic against this) One big reason why Jack could have moved on is that Jack was the person who knew who he was , he accepted himself as a man who would be attracted to other men. This way, Jack had "options" in his life - it was upto him to decide when he would be open to "the other options" ; Ennis might still have continued to be his first love or major love inspite of quitting. (Jack went to male hustlers post divorce scene, there was perhaps randall) But Ennis was different, he thought he wasn't queer , he never looked for any other man or even woman per say .. i think ennis was Jack-sexual!! (somebody had coined this word in this forum but very rightly put) ...

Sometimes even if you love somebody madly but you find lack of commitment from that person ( lack ..in terms of your expectation) you do try to move on while you continue to cherish the one you love

The only other possibility which perhaps has not been discussed is - did Jack say those words as a last desperate attempt to get some reaction from Ennis ?? .. shortly before this he had said that the famous"the truth is sometimes i miss ... hardly stand it" (another desperate attempt ). So Jack was bringing up the topics i guess. I have a hunch that this confrontation had also brought about some changes in Ennis, had Jack lived , could have been some positive moves from Ennis IMO

The only possibility which perhaps has not been discussed is did Jack say those words as a last attempt to get some reaction from Ennis? Definitly Yes! And he waited almost 20 years to say those words! The patience of Jack was extreme concerning Ennis, too much tolerance, who would have been able to bear this kind of f** bitchy unsatisfactory situation for so long? Nobody! except our Jack!  

[youbet]

The only possibility which perhaps has not been discussed is did Jack say those words as a last attempt to get some reaction from Ennis? Definitly Yes! And he waited almost 20 years to say those words! The patience of Jack was extreme concerning Ennis, too much tolerance, who would have been able to bear this kind of f** bitchy unsatisfactory situation for so long? Nobody! except our Jack!  

awww dont get so mad at Ennis 

[Forever]

awww dont get so mad at Ennis  

Sorry Youbet! But I can't help myself! I'm Jack's girl that's why! I'm not mad at Ennis, I'm mad that they both grew up in such an homophobic society! I know that they both love each other very much, but in those days things were very complicated for both of them, just imagine not being able to say I love you to the only person you deeply love and care about! It must have been a torture for both of them!  

[youbet]

Sorry Youbet! But I can't help myself! I'm Jack's girl that's why! I'm not mad at Ennis, I'm mad that they both grew up in such an homophobic society! I know that they both love each other very much, but in those days things were very complicated for both of them, just imagine not being able to say I love you to the only person you deeply love and care about! It must have been a torture for both of them!  

Oh i know Forever   .. but frankly what i still dont understand is the fear of ennis.. no doubt he loved as did jack .. what was he afraid of ? getting killed ? it would take some sheen away from the character if what he was afraid of was death .. .. was it the fear of being labelled ? of being looked down upon ?? it broke my heart when ennis talked about somebody looking as if they know !! he looked down upon "boys like you" ...being one himself strange .. what was this denial all about .. unfathomably strange and sad, i cannot equate anything to this strange behaviour.. can't relate to it either

[Forever]

Oh i know Forever   .. but frankly what i still dont understand is the fear of ennis.. no doubt he loved as did jack .. what was he afraid of ? getting killed ? it would take some sheen away from the character if what he was afraid of was death .. .. was it the fear of being labelled ? of being looked down upon ?? it broke my heart when ennis talked about somebody looking as if they know !! he looked down upon "boys like you" ...being one himself strange .. what was this denial all about .. unfathomably strange and sad, i cannot equate anything to this strange behaviour.. can't relate to it either

Dear Youbet, I understand your point of view, but don't forget that Ennis was confused and also very much in denial of his own sexuality. Ennis was the product of his parents education, his father was homophobic, he let Ennis to be the witness of Earl and Reach's murder. And yes, Ennis was scared to death to end up like these two poor men if his relationship with Jack had been discovered. His fear was so intense that it became paranoia at the end! If only Ennis had been loved more, if only his father had been more tolerant about gay men, things would have turned differently for us. How can you recognize a great love, when you didn't experience great love and affection during your childhood from your parents? Ennis psychology didn't understand immediatly the nature of his feelings for Jack ( but his body well, remember the collapse of Ennis in the alley!) what happened then was a serious case of body somatisation experience and a violent one! His body telling him that he was crazy in love with Jack! But the punch against the wall reflects in my opinion, his deep denial of the situation: he was not a queer! because in his mind it means danger, it means risk of being killed! It took Ennis more than 20 years to realize that what he shared with Jack was pure love and just not fun. The first electrochoc came from Cassie when she said that: Girls don't fall in love just for fun that's why Ennis sent for the first time the post card to Jack to remind him their November's meeting. If Jack had survived, I'm pretty sure that Ennis would have seriously reconsidered his relationship with Jack, I'm pretty sure that he was ready to make tremendous changes! The death of Jack was the second big shock ( remember the phone call with loreen and the palpable pain of Ennis trying not to cry!) the third big shock was at jack's parents house and the discovery of the two shirts! It's so sad to watch, Ennis realizing finally that what he shared with Jack was a pure and monumental love! Some of the Brokies thinks also that if Ennis refused the sweet life proposal, it was also to protect Jack against homophobic violence and I believe that. For me it was a combination of the two ( fear but also his desire to protect him against violence). What Ennis fears the most ( the death of his love) happened at the end, and this is the tragedy of Brokeback. What Ennis didn't understand all this years ( but did at the end) is that it would have been better for both of them to be together, to take the risk to live together, because at the end they could have fight together, they would have been stronger together than apart. Maybe their life would have been shorter, but rather live a shorter and a beautiful life for 5 years or less than 20 years apart with so much frustrations and regrets!!!  

[chowhound]

Dear Youbet, I understand your point of view, but don't forget that Ennis was confused and also very much in denial of his own sexuality. Ennis was the product of his parents education, his father was homophobic, he let Ennis to be the witness of Earl and Reach's murder. And yes, Ennis was scared to death to end up like these two poor men if his relationship with Jack had been discovered. His fear was so intense that it became paranoia at the end! If only Ennis had been loved more, if only his father had been more tolerant about gay men, things would have turned differently for us. How can you recognize a great love, when you didn't experience great love and affection during your childhood from your parents? Ennis psychology didn't understand immediatly the nature of his feelings for Jack ( but his body well, remember the collapse of Ennis in the alley!) what happened then was a serious case of body somatisation experience and a violent one! His body telling him that he was crazy in love with Jack! But the punch against the wall reflects in my opinion, his deep denial of the situation: he was not a queer! because in his mind it means danger, it means risk of being killed! It took Ennis more than 20 years to realize that what he shared with Jack was pure love and just not fun. The first electrochoc came from Cassie when she said that: Girls don't fall in love just for fun that's why Ennis sent for the first time the post card to Jack to remind him their November's meeting. If Jack had survived, I'm pretty sure that Ennis would have seriously reconsidered his relationship with Jack, I'm pretty sure that he was ready to make tremendous changes! The death of Jack was the second big shock ( remember the phone call with loreen and the palpable pain of Ennis trying not to cry!) the third big shock was at jack's parents house and the discovery of the two shirts! It's so sad to watch, Ennis realizing finally that what he shared with Jack was a pure and monumental love! Some of the Brokies thinks also that if Ennis refused the sweet life proposal, it was also to protect Jack against homophobic violence and I believe that. For me it was a combination of the two ( fear but also his desire to protect him against violence). What Ennis fears the most ( the death of his love) happened at the end, and this is the tragedy of Brokeback. What Ennis didn't understand all this years ( but did at the end) is that it would have been better for both of them to be together, to take the risk to live together, because at the end they could have fight together, they would have been stronger together than apart. Maybe their life would have been shorter, but rather live a shorter and a beautiful life for 5 years or less than 20 years apart with so much frustrations and regrets!!!  

A very thoughtful post on this topic, Forever. And I very much agree that Ennis may well have been ready to reassess their relationship at their November meeting. After all, it was Ennis, not Jack, who was setting up the time and the place- "how about November 7 for you. I can meet you at pine creek" - not Jack. As far as we know, this is the first time that Ennis has taken the lead.

[stephan]

Oh i know Forever   .. but frankly what i still dont understand is the fear of ennis.. no doubt he loved as did jack .. what was he afraid of ? ...

Youbet, you must live in a wonderful place if you don't understand Ennis's fear. Prejudice against homosexuals (or other groups of people) creates a situation of rejection from society, even from close friends and relatives. Sometimes that rejection leads to murder. Ennis had a childhood memory of the murder of an unmarried man. It probably traumatized him. The same thing might have happened to him. The film is unclear about Jack's death, he might have been murdered too.

[kitty]

To me, for Jack to have quit Ennis, this would mean that he completely gives up on his hopes for a life together. It would mean drawing a line under his love for Ennis and pushing it to the back of his mind as he searches for something else.

So, I don't think he ever could have done it. Yes, he was angry and frustrated, and rightly so. But I don't believe for a second that he could have just given up. If he had lived, and they had met up in November, I think they could have talked it out once and for all, and maybe Ennis would have finally said yes to at least something more. If at any point, he'd finally agreed, I think Jack would have dropped everything in a heartbeat to be with him. The money, the comfortable life, everything.

In conclusion, I don't think Jack could have quit Ennis. He simply loved him too much for that

[jackster]

I'd have to agree with everything kitty says here. 'Course as I said, it's all open to myriad of personal interpretations.
My own fantasy, is that Jack knew at this moment, looking into Ennis's eyes:

He knew that this was person he was meant to be with, that electricity zapped between their hands now and for all those years to come. Once this happens it's impossible to undo it, you can be frustrated, disappointed, unhappy, and angry with this person, and not see them for months at a time. But you know the "spark" won't go away. It can't. This is why Jack said "I wish", he doesn't know how, couldn’t make it stop.
JMHO

[welshwitch]

Quit's an ancient word in English - goes back to the mediaeval period. Has all sorts of meanings - the ones that strike me as interesting here are " to free or clear of an obligation". Thus a servant or employee, say one involved in handling money,  might have to obtain quittance from an employer before leaving his job. could also mean " to absolve" or "acquit" in a legal context, again with the sense of freeing someone.Has one area concerned with repaying or rewarding someone - generally but not inevitably in a benevolent fashion.Also has a rarer sense of giving up, let go or renounce. All these layers of meaning  play into the use in this scene, I think.

[BBMsheep]

I'd have to agree with everything kitty says here. 'Course as I said, it's all open to myriad of personal interpretations.
My own fantasy, is that Jack knew at this moment, looking into Ennis's eyes:

He knew that this was person he was meant to be with, that electricity zapped between their hands now and for all those years to come. Once this happens it's impossible to undo it, you can be frustrated, disappointed, unhappy, and angry with this person, and not see them for months at a time. But you know the "spark" won't go away. It can't. This is why Jack said "I wish", he doesn't know how, couldn’t make it stop.
JMHO

Yes! I agree with you. I don't think these two could separate, even if their bodies weren't enough together, their minds were all the time. Of course Jack was very frustrated, and he wished how to quit Ennis, but in my opinion it was just words, maybe to try to make Ennis react, maybe just to let his anger and frustration express.

Of course there were pain, disappointments and all... but Jack would never quit Ennis. He was the one and only love of his life. And he knew that since the beginning. I'm an hopeless romantic, I know...

[wongadonga]

Hi there Brokies, my first post here.   

Being from Oz it was the first time I had heard the word "quit" used in that context, as normal expression would be "leave you".

I just assumed it was normal "American" but now I am not so sure.

so is it something normally used in places like Wyoming?

[ethan]

Welcome, wongadonga.

Being in America, it was also the first time I heard the usage of quitting someone. I don't know if it is normally used in Wyoming.