Topic: Ennis's Tears?

[tpe]

Ennis never wanted to show his tears to Jack.   In the final meeting, he screws his thumbs in between his eyes -- in the vain attempt to staunch the flow of tears.  And in the part where he turns to face Jack and says "Then why don't you...", you can see the tears glisten.

No wonder Jack was also so moved.

[jackster]

I recall Jack crying only once and Ennis cried four (maybe more) times.  I think Jack is emotionally stronger and knows what he really want while Ennis has more conflict in him.

Probably been cited a million times, but my count of Ennis's tears:
1. Alley after leaving Jack.
2. Divorce.
3. (a maybe) By the stream (Ain't no reins . . .)
4. Last meeting with Jack (then why don't you . . )
5. Jack's house (his closet + mom)
6. Final scene with shirts (Jack I swear . . )

That's a lot. A lot more than Jack (at least of what we see).

And the complexity (or fragility) of Ennis is such that in two of these scenes, #1 and #4, he's not only crying but also acting out violently (and even in #5 it looks like he'd like to take a swing at the old man when he says "Yes sir"). I suppose this could be seen as immature, as a child will cry and fight at the same time, but I think as you say JT, it's a sign of turmoil - he doesn't know what to do, he can't fix it, and he can't stand it.

jackster

[ksxks]

Probably been cited a million times, but my count of Ennis's tears:
1. Alley after leaving Jack.
2. Divorce.
3. (a maybe) By the stream (Ain't no reins . . .)
4. Last meeting with Jack (then why don't you . . )
5. Jack's house (his closet + mom)
6. Final scene with shirts (Jack I swear . . )

That's a lot. A lot more than Jack (at least of what we see).

And the complexity (or fragility) of Ennis is such that in two of these scenes, #1 and #4, he's not only crying but also acting out violently (and even in #5 it looks like he'd like to take a swing at the old man when he says "Yes sir"). I suppose this could be seen as immature, as a child will cry and fight at the same time, but I think as you say JT, it's a sign of turmoil - he doesn't know what to do, he can't fix it, and he can't stand it.
jackster

Oh, it's breaking my heart.  This is so good, jackster.  This is when Ennis's years of standing it come to an end (in last meeting with Jack).  If he'd just had the chance, once more with Jack, things might really have changed, since he gave up on standing it.

kathy

[JT]

That is sad.  He had that last chance, he blew it, and he finally knows he blew it.

[aintfoolin]

If the roles were reversed and it  was Jack rejecting Ennis , there's no way Ennis would have been able to "stand it" as he says. He would have broke alot sooner.  He seems like a very sensitive guy wrapped up in a hard shell. but melted like ice inside when around Jack. He stayed "safe" being the one pursued on the most part by Jack, but at the slightest thought that he would never see Jack again brings him to tears. Jack was definitly more confident in himself and the relationship for sure. The loss of his parents at an early age may have something to do with Ennis not being able resist his tears. He probably cried alot as a child with an inexperienced brother and sister to raise him.When he cries, I just wanna hold and comfort him. And Jack had his own tears in moments of rejection. His inability to convince Ennis that it was worth a shot at the sweet life together had to be a trying exsistence after awhile. Both hid their tears from each other till the end when they cried in each other's arms. :\'(

[greenfrog]

That is sad.  He had that last chance, he blew it, and he finally knows he blew it.

 :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

[ksxks]

If the roles were reversed and it  was Jack rejecting Ennis , there's no way Ennis would have been able to "stand it" as he says. He would have broke alot sooner.  He seems like a very sensitive guy wrapped up in a hard shell. but melted like ice inside when around Jack. He stayed "safe" being the one pursued on the most part by Jack, but at the slightest thought that he would never see Jack again brings him to tears. Jack was definitly more confident in himself and the relationship for sure. The loss of his parents at an early age may have something to do with Ennis not being able resist his tears. He probably cried alot as a child with an inexperienced brother and sister to raise him.When he cries, I just wanna hold and comfort him. And Jack had his own tears in moments of rejection. His inability to convince Ennis that it was worth a shot at the sweet life together had to be a trying exsistence after awhile. Both hid their tears from each other till the end when they cried in each other's arms. :\'(

This is so good, aintfoolin.  I have also considered how it might have been different for Ennis and Jack if the dynamics of their relationship were reversed.  But as to this particular thread, Ennis's Tears, it's very interesting what you said about Ennis losing his parents young, contributing to his emotional makeup -- being so held in until he breaks either in tears or in punching someone.

And everything else you said...

kathy

[tpe]

Tears don't come easily to Ennis -- given the lack of the nurturing element when his parents died.  And yet we see him cry more often -- relative to Jack.  I guess this compensates for his silences.  The tears tell all.

[aintfoolin]

I agree with you tpe about the nurturing element. Ennis probably steeled himself eventually from his tears. Became a hardend individual. UNTIL he met Jack,. who some would say had a nurturing nature as part of himself, taking care of Ennis after the bear incident, worrying about his safety when he was'nt  in camp, as usaul and again after the wrestling/fight and the bloody nose incident. This says that Jack had a nuturing side to me. Even at the end towards their last meeting Jack just could'nt stand seeing Ennis in pain for too long before he took him into his arms and said "it's alright"  I think this was part of Ennis's feelings of love for him. No one had ever comforted  him tihs way without demands or judgements.  Each time he cried, it involved Jack directly or indirectly.MO

[tpe]

Did Ennis soften after Jack's death, or did he harden into greater seclusion?  The tears in the last scenes in the trailer would seem to indicate that in spite of the increasing seclusion, Ennis was no longer afraid of his own tears -- he had learned to acknowledge his own feelings and not supress them.

[aintfoolin]

If we were'nt meant to cry God would'nt have given us tears, with that said I think he definitly softened  his heart. Don't think he could help it really The impact of Jack's death , killed Ennis too. But the shirts talked him back to life. They were Jack's words, from the grave, telling Ennis to go on, their love was eternal.

[tpe]

It is interesting that a man who lost both parents prematurely would not have learned the lesson of life's transience.    Had he realized earlier that Jack might not be with him forever, perhaps things might have been different. 

Did he cry when he lost his parents?  I would assume so.  But that expereince probably hardened him as a boy -- he needed to show strength.  Too much stoicism proved his undoing.

[lamusica]

Aintfoolin, you are a true poet.  Beatifully stated.

[LuvJackNasty]

But the shirts talked him back to life. They were Jack's words, from the grave, telling Ennis to go on, their love was eternal.

OMG That's beautiful  :\'(

[greenfrog]

If we were'nt meant to cry God would'nt have given us tears, with that said I think he definitly softened  his heart. Don't think he could help it really The impact of Jack's death , killed Ennis too. But the shirts talked him back to life. They were Jack's words, from the grave, telling Ennis to go on, their love was eternal.

Beautiful post Aintfoolin  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

[ksxks]

Aintfoolin, yes, beautiful words.  And I agree about Jack being a nurturer, though this should be on some other thread.  He is very much a nurturer, overtly; but then Ennis showed his nurturing differently, by taking the sheep duty, by killing the elk for Jack, by getting soup for Jack, etc.

And Thomas, very interesting point about Ennis losing his parents young, and why that didn't clue him into the transience of life.  But those fears of his were just more powerful than that sense of transience which he probably somehow lost.  Lost the urgency of the sense, as we do...

kathy

[aintfoolin]

This is so true Kathy, I beleive  we all have our fears tucked safely away inside  ourselves. it becomes a part of us unconsientiouslly as we go through life, though it varys in degrees based on our (on the most part) chiildhood experiences, and culture. This is where Ennis was most vulnerable in his. I grew up with both parents alive and well and can't imagine any other way. Growing up without parents or loosing them as Ennis did , truly must be a unique experience .He must have cried alot as a child then steeled himself later on as a young teen. forced  to be a man early on,  without that nuturing parents bring to you as a child. It was the  one thing Jack could'nt  relate to with Ennis....well, he had  his mother's love at least. Ennis had neither.

[tpe]

Aintfoolin, yes, beautiful words.  And I agree about Jack being a nurturer, though this should be on some other thread.  He is very much a nurturer, overtly; but then Ennis showed his nurturing differently, by taking the sheep duty, by killing the elk for Jack, by getting soup for Jack, etc.

And Thomas, very interesting point about Ennis losing his parents young, and why that didn't clue him into the transience of life.  But those fears of his were just more powerful than that sense of transience which he probably somehow lost.  Lost the urgency of the sense, as we do...

kathy

I guess death can turn us either way -- either to greater sensitivity or to deeper denial.  I don't doubt that his parents' death made Ennis more sensitive deep inside of him (hence, the tears).  In a real sense, I don't think he would have been so faithful to his love had he himself not lost something as visceral as the love of parents.

But death had also made him lonely.  The tragic loss of both parents made him think that he could stand anything, when in fact he should have recognized the need for someone to truly love him.  Such a recognition would have made him more vulnerable, but it would have saved him.

[ksxks]

I guess death can turn us either way -- either to greater sensitivity or to deeper denial.  I don't doubt that his parents' death made Ennis more sensitive deep inside of him (hence, the tears).  In a real sense, I don't think he would have been so faithful to his love had he himself not lost something as visceral as the love of parents.

But death had also made him lonely.  The tragic loss of both parents made him think that he could stand anything, when in fact he should have recognized the need for someone to truly love him.  Such a recognition would have made him more vulnerable, but it would have saved him.

So beautiful, so sad.  Part of the conundrum that is Ennis...

kathy

[aintfoolin]

Loosing his parents at What? nine? had to be devastating to him. And to grow up without what we have today in the form of therapy or support groups must have left Ennis feeling very lost and confused. I don't think He really dealt with it properly or got over it. The next time he recognized love as he knew it , it was with Jack. Alma became unfortunatly a excuse and cover for his real desires. Jack got to him like Alma never could. He was the one whom Ennis felt completed by again by since his parents died. It must have hurt him alot to be seperated from his girls not wanting them to suffer growing up without their father close by, but thank goodness that Alma was'nt as vindictive as she could have been with the ammo she had. It would have totally distroyed  any sanity he had left. In the end it was Jack's memory and the love of his own children that sustained him. His two true loves. :\'(

[tpe]

Ennis's tears may largely exhibit confusion,  remorse. and regret.  But it is through tears that we see how much he loved.

[JT]

Loosing his parents at What? nine? had to be devastating to him. And to grow up without what we have today in the form of therapy or support groups must have left Ennis feeling very lost and confused. I don't think He really dealt with it properly or got over it. The next time he recognized love as he knew it , it was with Jack. Alma became unfortunatly a excuse and cover for his real desires. Jack got to him like Alma never could. He was the one whom Ennis felt completed by again by since his parents died. It must have hurt him alot to be seperated from his girls not wanting them to suffer growing up without their father close by, but thank goodness that Alma was'nt as vindictive as she could have been with the ammo she had. It would have totally distroyed  any sanity he had left. In the end it was Jack's memory and the love of his own children that sustained him. His two true loves. :\'(

Isn't it sad that he can't even be close to his two true love?  One he can no longer physically be with; only in memory.  The other, he sees only occationally. 

[manhattangirl]

Hi,

I'm left wondering how it was for Jack growing up.  If you read the short story,  Jack's father was very abusive,   in the film Jack tells Ennis his father never gave him advice or saw him compete in the rodeo, but yet his personality was different from Ennis, Jack wanted to be happy.   He wanted Ennis to be happy too.   Jack loved Ennis so much he drove every year for twenty years to Wyoming,   Ennis never left town until after Jack's death.   Ennis's tears,  I'll always left wondering what he swore to,  the knowing he never gave an inch to Jack and understanding that or was it making easier for himself swearing he'll always think of him.


Manhattangirl

[JT]

Hi,

I'm left wondering how it was for Jack growing up.  If you read the short story,  Jack's father was very abusive,   in the film Jack tells Ennis his father never gave him advice or saw him compete in the rodeo, but yet his personality was different from Ennis, Jack wanted to be happy.   He wanted Ennis to be happy too.   Jack loved Ennis so much he drove every year for twenty years to Wyoming,   Ennis never left town until after Jack's death.   Ennis's tears,  I'll always left wondering what he swore to,  the knowing he never gave an inch to Jack and understanding that or was it making easier for himself swearing he'll always think of him.


Manhattangirl

I think Jack's wonderful personality is something he learned from his mother as there was no one else to learn that trait from.  Also, he grew up quite lonely and isolated, but that might trigger a sence of yearning to be with someone and when he found his soulmate, he was hellbent on holding on to him.  As for Ennis' swear, I think he is saying manythings at once.  So ,"Jack, I swear" to me means, "I love you," "I'm sorry," "Thank you," "You're my one and only," and "I do" all cram into one phrase. 

Just my 2-cent opinion.

[NoReins]

I think Jack's wonderful personality is something he learned from his mother as there was no one else to learn that trait from.  Also, he grew up quite lonely and isolated, but that might trigger a sence of yearning to be with someone and when he found his soulmate, he was hellbent on holding on to him.  As for Ennis' swear, I think he is saying manythings at once.  So ,"Jack, I swear" to me means, "I love you," "I'm sorry," "Thank you," "You're my one and only," and "I do" all cram into one phrase. 

Just my 2-cent opinion.

That's my opinion too JT...and possibly also "I swear if I could do it over again, I would do things differently...I would take a chance on that sweet life with you" :\'(

[tpe]

Ennis's tears belie the inner frustrations and contradictions that make him such a wonderful character.  The tears in the final "I swear" admit to this -- they are tears of realization, of finally waking up.  Too late.

[JT]

That's my opinion too JT...and possibly also "I swear if I could do it over again, I would do things differently...I would take a chance on that sweet life with you" :\'(

That's a great one, NoReins!  I beleive this also.  It's the biggest regret of his life.

[jacks_key]

Well, now you are talking about two different time periods I believe.  I don't believe he knew or would not admit to knowing he was in love with Jack until he found the shirts.  That is why I always call the shirt scene the turning point.  This is why I flipped when I heard him say 'I love you."  To me, THIS is when he came around and realized and/or admitted he was actually in love with Jack.   There is no doubt in my mind he loved Jack and he knew and I think admitted to that in the things he did for Jack.  But, when he saw the shirts intertwined there in Jack's closet for twenty years, he knew how Jack felt and how he felt also. 

I just watched this scene on the DVD, and it does sound like he is whispering "I love you."  Right after he takes that deep breath; I listened closely and watched his mouth when he exhaled, and it looked/sounded like "I love you."  I had to play it back a few times, but I am sure he said it.  God, that scene tears me UP!    :\'(

[BBBOY]

I just watched this scene on the DVD, and it does sound like he is whispering "I love you."  Right after he takes that deep breath; I listened closely and watched his mouth when he exhaled, and it looked/sounded like "I love you."  I had to play it back a few times, but I am sure he said it.  God, that scene tears me UP!    :\'(

Verbalized or not, this is when he comes to terms with his real love. I kills me every time I watch it.

[hpv]

Ennis never wanted to show his tears to Jack.   In the final meeting, he screws his thumbs in between his eyes -- in the vain attempt to staunch the flow of tears.  And in the part where he turns to face Jack and says "Then why don't you...", you can see the tears glisten.
No wonder Jack was also so moved.

His stress was so visible..  :\'(