Topic: Ennis/Jack skipped breakfast after FNIT?

[tpe]

Jack beinmg the object of Ennis's desire and confusion: that is a great way of summarizing Ennis's inner conflict after FNIT.

[myprivatejack]

Thanks,friends¡    As a matter of fact,wasn't that Ennis half life's contradiction?: to be torn between desire and confusion...

[tpe]

Yes.

The conflict is beautifully illustrated first in the scene after FNIT, then in the succeeding scenes: the reunion scenes, the post-divorce scene, and the last confrontation.

[myprivatejack]

Yes.

The conflict is beautifully illustrated first in the scene after FNIT, then in the succeeding scenes: the reunion scenes, the post-divorce scene, and the last confrontation.

Yes,because it's the main characteristic in Ennis way of being, in these scenes,we see him doing some rather contradictory facts.

[tpe]

It is in those moments of greatest contradictions that we appreciate Ennis and his difficulties for who he was and for what they are -- I am sure this was the same with Jack, even if it caused him a great deal of pain.

This was certainly the case right after FNIT.  It is interesting that even though they skipped breakfast, both of them continued to do their individual chores, although it is without a doubt that their minds were far away from the mundane tasks...

[smartestsonia]

Ennis did fight alot of conflicts..the day after FNIT was very strong for both,.,,.I mean Ennis suddenlty felt as if there is a mirror in front of him that expressed all his repressed desires that he was fighting with and he felt...the entire day they did what all they had to do...they were apart but on each others mind..then during SNIT ennis got the courage of just being himself..what he actually wanted...

I think being apart that day was important for both of them....they realized that they had to come back to each otther though

[tpe]

Ennis did fight alot of conflicts..the day after FNIT was very strong for both,.,,.I mean Ennis suddenlty felt as if there is a mirror in front of him that expressed all his repressed desires that he was fighting with and he felt...the entire day they did what all they had to do...they were apart but on each others mind..then during SNIT ennis got the courage of just being himself..what he actually wanted...

I think being apart that day was important for both of them....they realized that they had to come back to each otther though

Most of all, I think it was the sight of Jack the morning after that made him very uncomfortable.  IN that morning, he was running away from Jack as much as he was trying to run away from himself.  Jack's comment "see you for supper" was a way of telling Ennis that he couldn't run away from him (jack) and himself forever...

[myprivatejack]

Most of all, I think it was the sight of Jack the morning after that made him very uncomfortable.  IN that morning, he was running away from Jack as much as he was trying to run away from himself.  Jack's comment "see you for supper" was a way of telling Ennis that he couldn't run away from him (jack) and himself forever...

I agree again; seeing Jack again that morning not only reminded him what had happenned the night before.It also reminded him what and how he was,a way of being that was there to stay,no matter he run away from the physical object(Jack)...And the comment "see you for supper"could easily be taken as a way to tell Ennis:-Now you can run away from here,but sooner or later you'll come back to eat because you were hungry.And also you'll come back sooner or later because you're going to need something else.

[smartestsonia]

Most of all, I think it was the sight of Jack the morning after that made him very uncomfortable.  IN that morning, he was running away from Jack as much as he was trying to run away from himself.  Jack's comment "see you for supper" was a way of telling Ennis that he couldn't run away from him (jack) and himself forever...

ya Ennis realized that he has to face Jack sooner or later..although it was the right thing to be alone for sometime as knowing how vulnerable ennis became that morning...it all hit him and he realized what his true feelings r..so obviously he was uneasy and he could not just face Jack at that time...Jack realised that...

I remember the look on Jacks face when Ennis sat on the horse and went..I wonder what all was going on in Jacks  mind..the fear of losing Ennis, fear of rejection, uncomfort between the 2, Ennis not being the same with him ?
Quite a rough day for both

[tpe]

I agree again; seeing Jack again that morning not only reminded him what had happenned the night before.It also reminded him what and how he was,a way of being that was there to stay,no matter he run away from the physical object(Jack)...And the comment "see you for supper"could easily be taken as a way to tell Ennis:-Now you can run away from here,but sooner or later you'll come back to eat because you were hungry.And also you'll come back sooner or later because you're going to need something else.[/i]

I think at this point, Jack knew that Ennis did have strong desires, and that they addressed an aspect that he wanted/needed -- no matter how difficult the battle with himself was going to be. 

[tpe]

ya Ennis realized that he has to face Jack sooner or later..although it was the right thing to be alone for sometime as knowing how vulnerable ennis became that morning...it all hit him and he realized what his true feelings r..so obviously he was uneasy and he could not just face Jack at that time...Jack realised that...

I remember the look on Jacks face when Ennis sat on the horse and went..I wonder what all was going on in Jacks  mind..the fear of losing Ennis, fear of rejection, uncomfort between the 2, Ennis not being the same with him ?
Quite a rough day for both

I think both of them were pretty thankful that they didn't have time to have breakfast together that morning.  Both had a lot on thier minds, and to have had breakfast would have laid bare their discomfort before they could grapple with their own feelings and affirm what they truly wanted. 

On the surface, Jack certainly looked anxious -- anxious about how Ennis is going to react and treat him henceforth.   But in spite of this, I do think he had confidence that Ennis really wanted this too, and that the challenge was trying to get him accept it.

 

[manhattangirl]

I think both of them were pretty thankful that they didn't have time to have breakfast together that morning.  Both had a lot on thier minds, and to have had breakfast would have laid bare their discomfort before they could grapple with their own feelings and affirm what they truly wanted. 

On the surface, Jack certainly looked anxious -- anxious about how Ennis is going to react and treat him henceforth.  But in spite of this, I do think he had confidence that Ennis really wanted this too, and that the challenge was trying to get him accept it.
 

Jack waiting on the hill for Ennis to come to him.   Jack had to know did Ennis want him,  and Ennis did want him, despite the dead sheep, Ennis already made his choice.

[tpe]

Yes, someone who was unsure of himself would flee the other -- as in the case of Ennis early on.  I even daresy that perhaps Jack would have survived having breakfast with Ennis that morning.  He was more certain of what he wanted at that moment.

[myprivatejack]

And in his deepest and innest being,he knew for sure that Ennis would give up; as a matter of fact,he knew also how to get it sooner or later...

[tpe]

Exactly.  I think after FNIT, Jack had the foresight -- the knowledge that things would go his way.  Ennis didn't have the knowledge -- even though deep inside of him, he already knew...

[manhattangirl]

Jack naked by the stream, you could almost see him in the water, bathing from the night before, and cleaning himself for the night ahead becaue when Ennis buried his face in Jack's chest the smell of soap, you knew he got lost in him.

Ennis finding the dead sheep, knowing that he wasn't there doing his job, but damn the sheep, he wasn't going be there that night either. 

Their minds sure wasn't on breakfast.

[tpe]

In a way, both Jack and Ennis needed a kind of cleaning or exculpation.  The two scenes that MG cited are symbolic of this.  eating breakfast would have been symbolically a "breaking of the bread", as it is understood in many cultures.  It could be argued that such a symbolic act right after FNIT would have been quite inappropriate, given their own individual natures...

[smartestsonia]

I think both of them were pretty thankful that they didn't have time to have breakfast together that morning.  Both had a lot on thier minds, and to have had breakfast would have laid bare their discomfort before they could grapple with their own feelings and affirm what they truly wanted. 

On the surface, Jack certainly looked anxious -- anxious about how Ennis is going to react and treat him henceforth.   But in spite of this, I do think he had confidence that Ennis really wanted this too, and that the challenge was trying to get him accept it.
 

He did know that Ennis wanted it too but he also knew how freaked out Ennis was and that he dint even wana talk to him..thats why in the evening he gave Ennis his space....he was only thinking of him..
Apart from being confident that Ennis wants the same thing I think a part of Jack was having some fear also that Ennis will not talk about it or just repress it forever...Jack was overjoyed when Ennis came to him himself....its the feeling of when u want something so badly and get it....

[aintfoolin]

I think Ennis was still trying to digest the events of the night before. Don't think he was in the right mood for breakfast. The idea of him waking up the camp tender to make bacon and eggs was inconcievable at that point. The fact that Jack did not say "make you some breakfast?" instead of "see you for supper" speaks to the fact that he knew Ennis needed to put some distance between them.

[tpe]

I think jack somehow surmised that for Ennis, it was just a matter of time.  Jack certainly didn't panic.  He bided his time, and I am sure that whatever difficulties he forsaw with Ennis in the immediate future, he had the considence to see that Ennis couldn't deny the feelings totally and forever...

[myprivatejack]

I think Jack was worried about the consequences of what had happenned the night before,but to a certain level.He knew for sure that Ennis needed a time greater than him to "digest" the circomstances,but also than the result of that "digestion" wouldn't be deny his own and deep feelings about him.

[tpe]

I suspect that he also needed time to digest what had happened the night before.  It must have been a sense of anticipation and dread.  But I doubt that jack spent much time regretting what had come to pass...

[myprivatejack]

Yes,as I said before,Jack needed less time than Ennis to realise what had happenned and what was going to happen in the future,but he needed time too.Doubtless it has been something that had removed their respective consciences;even if I guess,and I've always guessed,that Jack had had some kind of previous experience and Ennis wasn't his first man.It was always present the possibility,more or less far,that the fact had created a great gasp between them that made,even,lost their friendship.But Jack was surer of himself and also of Ennis than Ennis himself,IMO.

[tpe]

I think so too, although I am sure that Ennis was entirely different from whatever Jack had experienced before.  Jack was probably used to dealing with people who wanted the sex but didn't want to be emotionally invested.  I think Jack realized that Ennis acted because of how he FELT, and not for just for the sake of mindless, heartless gratification. 

[myprivatejack]

I think so too, although I am sure that Ennis was entirely different from whatever Jack had experienced before.  Jack was probably used to dealing with people who wanted the sex but didn't want to be emotionally invested.  I think Jack realized that Ennis acted because of how he FELT, and not for just for the sake of mindless, heartless gratification. 

Yes,of course,I totally agree...Maybe Ennis wasn't his first man,but he was the first willing to go beyond the sexual gratification,in spite of all his fears.

[manhattangirl]

If this was Ennis first sexual encounter, I wonder how he felt with the lost of control from a man who seemed to keep his emotions in deep check.  He couldn't fight off that desire, not that he was drunk, but that is what he wanted.  He wanted Jack, and didn't or couldn't stop himself. 

How confused he must of felt the next morning, this desire which seemed not to have happened with Alma, but with Jack.  His sexual desire becomes so overpowering that he couldn't control it, and I think that what happened when it came to Jack. 

[tpe]

I think Ennis was confused about his feelings for Jack, as much as his sexual attraction to him.  The confusion of the next morning must have been more about feelings, as he should have been able to use his drunkeness as an excuse -- perhaps pretending that he didn't remember what had happened the previous night.  But he didn't deny it, because in his heart, he knew that he wanted Jack, and that feeling was what made him thoughtful and confused.
 

[Asali]

Totally agree tpe and no amount of alcohol could make you deny these feelings even if he wanted it to.

[tpe]

Totally agree tpe and no amount of alcohol could make you deny these feelings even if he wanted it to.

Thanks Asali!  The first time a watched BBM, I was actually surprised that Ennis didn't use his inebriated state as an excuse.  It told me that there was something much deeper thanjust the sex.

[manhattangirl]

Never mind being sober enough to know what he was doing.  It's the  "I'll stick with beans" philosophy, out the window.  All of Ennis beliefs were being shifted,  "Sheep be damned."

That first night with Jack changed him fundamentally.  No matter what happened afterward he'd never denied his need for Jack, but after the reunion, Ennis couldn't think of being without Jack.