Topic: Double Meanings in BBM Lines

[FlwrChild]

"Besides that s.o.b. is cutting us out of a whole month's pay. It ain't right." I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but Ennis really means he's cheating us out of a month to be together. I'm not prepared for this. 

Yep, I agree. Actually I agree with everything I've read here so far. It's one of the great things about the film: there are so many ways to interpret so many scenes - and they don't contradict each other! Great thread!

[hpv]

Well,in the scene in the Jack's parents house
When Ennis suggest to take the ashes  up to BBM,then he looks at Jack's mother  with the "begging" expression
 and she looks at Mr.Twist ,like to ask for permission, but then the "stud duck"   starts the speech
staring at Ennis with an angry expression  then he spits in the cup...
yiek!!

We all know what he is thinking!!  

[hpv]

I adore the scenes with Jack's mother,her gently  asking Ennis-"Want some coffee, don't you? Piece a cherry cake?"
and later - "You are welcome to go up in his room if you want." -finally-    "You come back and see us again"
You can feel thats she loved her son so much, and knew that Ennis was the men that Jack loved...
so she wanted to embrace him and give him that love back  ....
(sorry for my English-I want to say so much more but its to hard to me..)   

[NoReins]

I adore the scenes with Jack's mother,her gently  asking Ennis-"Want some coffee, don't you? Piece a cherry cake?"
and later - "You are welcome to go up in his room if you want." -finally-    "You come back and see us again"
You can feel thats she loved her son so much, and knew that Ennis was the men that Jack loved...
so she wanted to embrace him and give him that love back  ....
(sorry for my English-I want to say so much more but its to hard to me..)   

Agree with you 100% hpv. And your English is perfect too

[hpv]

I adore the scenes with Jack's mother,her gently  asking Ennis-"Want some coffee, don't you? Piece a cherry cake?"
and later - "You are welcome to go up in his room if you want." -finally-    "You come back and see us again"
You can feel thats she loved her son so much, and knew that Ennis was the men that Jack loved...
so she wanted to embrace him and give him that love back  ....
(sorry for my English-I want to say so much more but its to hard to me..)   

Agree with you 100% hpv. And your English is perfect too

[tpe]

"Besides that s.o.b. is cutting us out of a whole month's pay. It ain't right." I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but Ennis really means he's cheating us out of a month to be together. I'm not prepared for this. 

Exquisite.

[tpe]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

[NoReins]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

You know, tpe, I do think that's exactly what Jack's mum was saying there. I will never be shaken from my belief that she knew about the shirts and, at least on some level, understood what they stood for. When Ennis visits and tells them he's known Jack a long time, since Brokeback, she knows that the other shirt is his...and she understands from his emotions that what Jack felt was reciprocated. She tells Ennis to go up to Jack's room so that he'll find the shirts and know for certain that while Jack may have talked of someone else (as his father says he did), it was Ennis - and only Ennis - that he loved.

 :\'(

[tpe]

You know, tpe, I do think that's exactly what Jack's mum was saying there. I will never be shaken from my belief that she knew about the shirts and, at least on some level, understood what they stood for. When Ennis visits and tells them he's known Jack a long time, since Brokeback, she knows that the other shirt is his...and she understands from his emotions that what Jack felt was reciprocated. She tells Ennis to go up to Jack's room so that he'll find the shirts and know for certain that while Jack may have talked of someone else (as his father says he did), it was Ennis - and only Ennis - that he loved.

 :\'(

Thanks NoReins.  I do believe she knew.  And I believe she loved Ennis then -- like a son.






 

[FlwrChild]

I believe she did too. And I also always thought she knew.

Slightly OT, but there's a wonderful interview with Roberta Maxwell (in the cast section or whatever also has soundtrack, I think) and she speaks so beautifully about Jack's mom. She really GOT her character. This movie is perfect because each piece of it (from casting to soundtrack to cinematography) is perfect. Sorry, just had to say it.

[tpe]

I believe she did too. And I also always thought she knew.

Slightly OT, but there's a wonderful interview with Roberta Maxwell (in the cast section or whatever also has soundtrack, I think) and she speaks so beautifully about Jack's mom. She really GOT her character. This movie is perfect because each piece of it (from casting to soundtrack to cinematography) is perfect. Sorry, just had to say it.

Yes FlwrChild .  I think there is a separate thread just on jack's mom.  And the interview is also posted somewhere, I believe.  Thanks for bringing up the interview.  She is amazing.  You can see the many levels of meaning without her even uttering a word. 

[LuvJackNasty]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

So true!  :\'(

[tpe]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

So true!  :\'(

Don't cry LuvJackNasty, because there's more:

You come see us again.

Translation: 'You come see HIM here whenever you can.'

[FlwrChild]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

So true!  :\'(

Don't cry LuvJackNasty, because there's more:

You come see us again.

Translation: 'You come see HIM here whenever you can.'

I never thought about it that way before. Beautiful.

[MississaugaRed]

Great idea for a thread, tpe - since we know there is so much more to BBM then what it shows on the surface.  I've learned so much already from these great posts!

There's one line from Ennis that has always left me aching for him without really knowing why; looking at it from your "double meaning"  perspective has helped shed some light on why it bothered me so.

That last scene in the trailer with Junior, when she tells him "Daddy, you need more furniture", Ennis replies simply "you ain't got nothin', you don't need nothin'".  Junior might take it at face value, that he's referring to material things, but really I think he's saying "without Jack, I ain't got nothing special, nothin' that's just for me, only for me, so what do I care about the bits and pieces around me now??".

And looking at it from the other side it would be true, too, If Ennis were really saying. "when I had Jack, I had everything I needed, HE was everything I needed, that sweet life he wanted would have felt good with that man by my side; don't have the will to do more than just get by without him to share this life with me." 

Let be, let be ...

[tpe]

Great idea for a thread, tpe - since we know there is so much more to BBM then what it shows on the surface.  I've learned so much already from these great posts!

There's one line from Ennis that has always left me aching for him without really knowing why; looking at it from your "double meaning"  perspective has helped shed some light on why it bothered me so.

That last scene in the trailer with Junior, when she tells him "Daddy, you need more furniture", Ennis replies simply "you ain't got nothin', you don't need nothin'".  Junior might take it at face value, that he's referring to material things, but really I think he's saying "without Jack, I ain't got nothing special, nothin' that's just for me, only for me, so what do I care about the bits and pieces around me now??".

And looking at it from the other side it would be true, too, If Ennis were really saying. "when I had Jack, I had everything I needed, HE was everything I needed, that sweet life he wanted would have felt good with that man by my side; don't have the will to do more than just get by without him to share this life with me." 

Let be, let be ...

I weep.

[LuvJackNasty]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

So true!  :\'(

Don't cry LuvJackNasty, because there's more:

You come see us again.

Translation: 'You come see HIM here whenever you can.'

You have to twist the knife don't you? 
Beautiful interpretation.

[LuvJackNasty]

Great idea for a thread, tpe - since we know there is so much more to BBM then what it shows on the surface.  I've learned so much already from these great posts!

There's one line from Ennis that has always left me aching for him without really knowing why; looking at it from your "double meaning"  perspective has helped shed some light on why it bothered me so.

That last scene in the trailer with Junior, when she tells him "Daddy, you need more furniture", Ennis replies simply "you ain't got nothin', you don't need nothin'".  Junior might take it at face value, that he's referring to material things, but really I think he's saying "without Jack, I ain't got nothing special, nothin' that's just for me, only for me, so what do I care about the bits and pieces around me now??".

And looking at it from the other side it would be true, too, If Ennis were really saying. "when I had Jack, I had everything I needed, HE was everything I needed, that sweet life he wanted would have felt good with that man by my side; don't have the will to do more than just get by without him to share this life with me." 

Let be, let be ...

Another beautiful interpretation!  :\'(

[tpe]

Too many devastating double-meanings...

[ksxks]

The line that has double meaning for me is what the bartender said after Jack had just been rejected by Jimbo the rodeo clown.  He says "You ever try calf roping?"  I think he was needling Jack.  In other words "You can't rope a man, try roping a calf."  I didn't like Jimbo, and I think that bartender was being just plain MEAN!  He HAD to have heard the exchange that had just taken place between Jack and Jimbo.   

Donna

Wow, Donna, that's one I never got.  We probably all agree that every single thing in the movie is intentional, but I haven't yet exhausted my study of "every single thing in the movie."    But this is a good one.  I did feel that was a painful scene but couldn't quite put my finger on it.  First stupid Jimbo, then the bartender, then Jack just up and walks out like pissed.  Anyway, that is excellent:  the bartender says that about calf roping because Jack struck out with roping a guy?

You know what, though, is that guys always buy other guys drinks, don't they?  Especially in a culture such as that, where guys totally hang out together and drink and all that.  So why would Jack's offering to buy Jimbo a drink be seen as anything untoward?  Or is it supposed to be apparent that people can tell Jack's "that way"?  Or, do I not know the straight-guy rules?  Wait a minute, Jimbo says, "If I let every [whatever he called Jack] buy me a drink, I'd be an alcoholic."

Well, I'm talkin' myself 'round in a circle.     Later.

kathy

[tpe]

The line that has double meaning for me is what the bartender said after Jack had just been rejected by Jimbo the rodeo clown.  He says "You ever try calf roping?"  I think he was needling Jack.  In other words "You can't rope a man, try roping a calf."  I didn't like Jimbo, and I think that bartender was being just plain MEAN!  He HAD to have heard the exchange that had just taken place between Jack and Jimbo.   

Donna

Wow, Donna, that's one I never got.  We probably all agree that every single thing in the movie is intentional, but I haven't yet exhausted my study of "every single thing in the movie."    But this is a good one.  I did feel that was a painful scene but couldn't quite put my finger on it.  First stupid Jimbo, then the bartender, then Jack just up and walks out like pissed.  Anyway, that is excellent:  the bartender says that about calf roping because Jack struck out with roping a guy?

You know what, though, is that guys always buy other guys drinks, don't they?  Especially in a culture such as that, where guys totally hang out together and drink and all that.  So why would Jack's offering to buy Jimbo a drink be seen as anything untoward?  Or is it supposed to be apparent that people can tell Jack's "that way"?  Or, do I not know the straight-guy rules?  Wait a minute, Jimbo says, "If I let every [whatever he called Jack] buy me a drink, I'd be an alcoholic."

Well, I'm talkin' myself 'round in a circle.     Later.

kathy

Hello Kathy.  I think it was Jack's look, and not necessarily the offer of a free drink, that disturbed the clown.

The clown'r parting words and look have double meaning:

Save your money for your next entry fee, cowboy.

When he said this and when he looked at Jack and the bartender before he left, it was if the clown was saying: 'I know what you are and what you want, and I'm not giving it...' or 'You can't buy me.'

[brokie007]

This is a great thread!  What about Jack's line at the end about "the rancher's wife."  He pretends to be talking about a woman (presumably LaShawn), but he's really talking about Randall.  I think Jack is lying to Ennis here about the gender of the person 1) to spare Ennis' feelings and 2) to keep up the charade of them really being interested in women.

At last...someone thinks like me as well!!! I absolutely agree on this one....

[Valandil Eluch]

Great idea for a thread, tpe - since we know there is so much more to BBM then what it shows on the surface.  I've learned so much already from these great posts!

There's one line from Ennis that has always left me aching for him without really knowing why; looking at it from your "double meaning"  perspective has helped shed some light on why it bothered me so.

That last scene in the trailer with Junior, when she tells him "Daddy, you need more furniture", Ennis replies simply "you ain't got nothin', you don't need nothin'".  Junior might take it at face value, that he's referring to material things, but really I think he's saying "without Jack, I ain't got nothing special, nothin' that's just for me, only for me, so what do I care about the bits and pieces around me now??".

And looking at it from the other side it would be true, too, If Ennis were really saying. "when I had Jack, I had everything I needed, HE was everything I needed, that sweet life he wanted would have felt good with that man by my side; don't have the will to do more than just get by without him to share this life with me." 

Let be, let be ...

OMG i'm going to cry!

[CherryCake]

The line that has double meaning for me is what the bartender said after Jack had just been rejected by Jimbo the rodeo clown.  He says "You ever try calf roping?"  I think he was needling Jack.  In other words "You can't rope a man, try roping a calf."  I didn't like Jimbo, and I think that bartender was being just plain MEAN!  He HAD to have heard the exchange that had just taken place between Jack and Jimbo.   

Donna

At first I didn't what the pupose was of this bartender's line:
Here's how I see it now:
Jack hits on the rodeo clown and gets reject in front of the bartender.
Jack and the bartender SEE the rodeo clown go to the pool table to his other rodeo freinds where it looks like the rodeo clown tells them about Jack's pick up attempt.
The bartender says: 'You ever tried calf-roping?"  IMPLYING THAT JACK MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER A RODEO EVENT WHERE HE WONT BE AROUND THAT RODEO CLOWN OR FREINDS BECAUSE THEY DONT TAKE TO KINDLY TO HOMOSEXUALS AND PERHAPS THE CLOWN AND HIS FREINDS  MIGHT LET THE BULL GORE JACK. (clowns are not needed for calf-roping;)
of course Jack is humilated by the rodeo clown and see's him with his buddies.
Jack takes off in a hurry.....
So I am not sure if "you ever considered calf-ropin' is a double meaning, but rather more vague than anything else.

[FlwrChild]

The line that has double meaning for me is what the bartender said after Jack had just been rejected by Jimbo the rodeo clown.  He says "You ever try calf roping?"  I think he was needling Jack.  In other words "You can't rope a man, try roping a calf."  I didn't like Jimbo, and I think that bartender was being just plain MEAN!  He HAD to have heard the exchange that had just taken place between Jack and Jimbo.   

Donna

At first I didn't what the pupose was of this bartender's line:
Here's how I see it now:
Jack hits on the rodeo clown and gets reject in front of the bartender.
Jack and the bartender SEE the rodeo clown go to the pool table to his other rodeo freinds where it looks like the rodeo clown tells them about Jack's pick up attempt.
The bartender says: 'You ever tried calf-roping?"  IMPLYING THAT JACK MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER A RODEO EVENT WHERE HE WONT BE AROUND THAT RODEO CLOWN OR FREINDS BECAUSE THEY DONT TAKE TO KINDLY TO HOMOSEXUALS AND PERHAPS THE CLOWN AND HIS FREINDS  MIGHT LET THE BULL GORE JACK. (clowns are not needed for calf-roping;)
of course Jack is humilated by the rodeo clown and see's him with his buddies.
Jack takes off in a hurry.....
So I am not sure if "you ever considered calf-ropin' is a double meaning, but rather more vague than anything else.

Interesting interpretation! Another triple meaning!

[frances]

Alma Junior to Cassie "Maybe he's not the marrying kind"



 - I warn you. He'll break you hearth

 - Really don't know what he wants to do. He's a closed book to me.

 - I hope him not to marry you. I'd be jealous

[chameau]

Alma Junior to Cassie "Maybe he's not the marrying kind"



 - I warn you. He'll break you hearth

 - Really don't know what he wants to do. He's a closed book to me.

 - I hope him not to marry you. I'd be jealous

Good one Frances, I'll go with the second interpretation

[ksxks]

Jack:  ''Tell you what… truth is, sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it… ''  :-[ :\'(

Ennis I love you?

No doubt at all, cham.

And in a similar vein, Ennis's "Ain't no reins on this one" is, to me, his way of telling Jack that what he feels is stronger than anything he's ever felt before - in other words, "Jack, I love you"

I totally agree.  Also, when Ennis says "this thing," right before the "no reins" line, I think "this thing" he is talking about is Ennis' way of saying it's love between them. 

Oh, yes, I so agree.  "Miss you," "this thing," "no reins" -- the closest they each came to saying I love you.  How sad...but not really -- as long as they understood each other's language, knew what they were really saying, knew they were talking about love.  Oh my heart...

kathy

[ksxks]

Great lines tpe & Frances! 

I second that, tpe and frances.  The "spare you a loan," the "I don't need your money," etc.  This is really great, seeing the depth of the meanings in all this dialogue.  And in their looks, too, as mentioned.

kathy

[ksxks]

You know, tpe, I do think that's exactly what Jack's mum was saying there. I will never be shaken from my belief that she knew about the shirts and, at least on some level, understood what they stood for. When Ennis visits and tells them he's known Jack a long time, since Brokeback, she knows that the other shirt is his...and she understands from his emotions that what Jack felt was reciprocated. She tells Ennis to go up to Jack's room so that he'll find the shirts and know for certain that while Jack may have talked of someone else (as his father says he did), it was Ennis - and only Ennis - that he loved.

 :\'(

Thanks NoReins.  I do believe she knew.  And I believe she loved Ennis then -- like a son.






 

Me, too.  All the moments of Ennis with Jack's mother are so wonderful.  Either she knew about Ennis from Jack, or figured it out when he came, she certainly knew it that whole scene, that here was the man her son loved (oh I'm going to cry).

When she says, "You come back and see us," it feels to me more like, "You come back and see me and Jack."  Certainly "us" doesn't mean her and horrible old Mr. T.

kathy