Topic: motel room scene

[NoReins]

Keren - thank you for that. You've just voiced exactly what I was feeling about this debate. The tenderness and, yes, love shown in the SNIT and motel room scenes are so beautiful and it's certainly not a crime to wish there had been more of that. Everyone on here was captivated by the love story as well as by the tragedy - deep down I think we all wish Ennis and Jack could have had that sweet life, even if it would have meant the story meant so much less - and so it's totally natural that we want to see them happy together as much as possible.

I wouldn't want to see more sex scenes (I may have joked about it occasionally, but I reckon that what we saw was enough to let us all know how it was between them) but I would love to have seen a few more hugs or even kisses between them as the years passed. I know there's a deleted scene from the "look what I brought" meeting where the two of them are hugging each other - I still wonder why that was cut as it seems a shame that the last physical affection we see is in the motel room, 16 years before their last meeting (apart from the last night together of course)

Anyway, I think I've probably strayed off topic here, but hopefully it's relevant to the discussion that Patriot1 started

[christie wood]

 I'd love to see more moments of love, tenderness, happiness between them - it doesn't have to be sex. but something like the motel room scene, when they're just lying in each other's arms and you know that both of them are so happy and peacefull now, and you can feel their love and their joy fill your heart - yeah, I definitelly wouldn't mind seeing more of that. we've all cried so much over their tragedy, it's only natural we'd want to share their few moments of bliss.

Keren, what a wonderful post, wonderfully worded and I agree wholeheartedly.  The motel scene is a truly beautiful moment for lots of reasons - their first time together after 4 years, showing them lying together, close and content, and also the fact that it was Ennis' initiation of the reunion kiss that led them to the motel room.  Its this kind of moment, where there is so much love and contentment and happiness (albiet shortlived), that I too would like to see much more of.   There is so much tragedy and sadness in this story that it would have been good for us to have been lifted by a few more scenes of Ennis and Jack showing each other affection.

Lindsey mentioned the "look what I brought" scene and I was thinking of that scene in particular too in regards to showing affection between them.  It's a beautiful hug they share, and is sad we didnt get to share it with them.  I expect Ang had his reasons, but for us who only want more happy times for them, they are far and few between.  The motel scene being a prime example, and I so adore Ennis and the way he constantly rubs Jack's arm, it's so so beautiful and tender.  The whole scene is, but that in particular just gets me every time.

[gimmejack]

Beautifully put Keren, No Reins...thank you for your voices.  After all, we are all in the same boat here...addicted to BBM and in love with the story.  It is only natural for a bit of possesiveness to occur over something you hold so close to your heart, but i'm sure it is understood that we would not be here if we all did not feel the same about this movie. 

Though everyone is entitled to their feelings and perspective, there is just no place for bitterness when we are all here in kindred spirit and advocates of tolerance and love.

Back on topic...I would still pay good money for more motel room scene footage, whether it be kissing, cuddling, silhouette of them in the shower, anything at all.  But yeah, too much sex scenes would take a way from the movie definetely.

[karen1129]

God I would pay good money for extra motel room footage!!!!!!!!  Mr. Lee is such a tease!!!!!!!!  He knew we would all be drooling for it!!!!!!

I don't think Mr. Lee was making a porn movie for your entertainment. Probably figured there was enough porn you could rent or buy.

   By the way, have any of the women here ever rented a gay porn video?   
If not, you really should try it. It is so much more satisfying than reducing a work of art into a porn movie, and you see a whole lot more too.

To answer your question Patriot...... yes I have rented porn movies, and no, it was not as satisfying as Jack and Ennis in
the intimate scenes of this movie !

[karen1129]

God I would pay good money for extra motel room footage!!!!!!!!  Mr. Lee is such a tease!!!!!!!!  He knew we would all be drooling for it!!!!!!

I don't think Mr. Lee was making a porn movie for your entertainment. Probably figured there was enough porn you could rent or buy.

   By the way, have any of the women here ever rented a gay porn video?   
If not, you really should try it. It is so much more satisfying that reducing a work of art into a porn movie, and you see a whole lot more too.

Whether my post had sexual connotations or not, I don't see how that should suggest reducing this beautiful work of art into anything...least of all a gay porn video.

The thrill of seeing them together more in any way, shape or form...sexual or not, would be worth it!

And for the record...If Jake and Heath are in it, I wouldn't just rent, I would buy up the store!

Very good gimmejack.  Would you pick me up a copy if you find one of Heath and Jake!!!
Love ya !

[stacp]

God I would pay good money for extra motel room footage!!!!!!!!  Mr. Lee is such a tease!!!!!!!!  He knew we would all be drooling for it!!!!!!

I don't think Mr. Lee was making a porn movie for your entertainment. Probably figured there was enough porn you could rent or buy.

   By the way, have any of the women here ever rented a gay porn video?   
If not, you really should try it. It is so much more satisfying than reducing a work of art into a porn movie, and you see a whole lot more too.

I don't think anyone here is reducing BBM to a piece of "gay porn."  If we were, we wouldn't be here.  I will admit that I had the shock of my life, when, as a straight, heterosexual, woman, this movie about two cowboys in love affected me so deeply.  And yes, part of this surprise was how beautiful and sexy this love (and sex) between two men could be.  The movie has forever changed my views and life.  So, when we speak about how sensual and "hot" their love scenes are, it's, to me, a celebration of the movie.  We have a little fun with it!  What's the harm? 

The motel scene is one of my favorite's in the movie.  Like Keren said, it is the intimacy that draws us in to that scene.  These are two souls that belong together and are forever entertwined.  it's a beautiful scene.

[keren_b]

I'm actually glad that the motel scene didn't show them having sex, only this part of lying peacefuly in each other's arms. we have enough fanfiction to satisfy our imagination considering this scene and others, and it's best to leave it at the fanfiction department, IMO. As far as the movie is concerned - a gentle touch, like Jack carressing Ennis's cheek in the "ain't no reins on this one" scene, says more about the feelings they share than any sex scene could ever say. it is more of these moments that I'd like to see between them.

On a more general note, we're all here because we have a deep love and respect for Ennis and Jack and their story, we can agree to disagree on certain points (after all, different people can't be expected to think and feel exactly the same on everything), as long as we remember that each one of us has his/her sensitivities and "soft spots", and we remember to respect that. I can definitely understand Patriot's POV and identify with it. everybody has a right to speak out if something bothers them, lets just try to discuss it with each other in a mature and open way and listen to each other's POV, and remember that mutual respect is the key here. that's all I'm saying.

[gimmejack]

Thanks for your expressions all

[CrimsonSky]

Keren - thank you for that. You've just voiced exactly what I was feeling about this debate. The tenderness and, yes, love shown in the SNIT and motel room scenes are so beautiful and it's certainly not a crime to wish there had been more of that. Everyone on here was captivated by the love story as well as by the tragedy - deep down I think we all wish Ennis and Jack could have had that sweet life, even if it would have meant the story meant so much less - and so it's totally natural that we want to see them happy together as much as possible.

I wouldn't want to see more sex scenes (I may have joked about it occasionally, but I reckon that what we saw was enough to let us all know how it was between them) but I would love to have seen a few more hugs or even kisses between them as the years passed. I know there's a deleted scene from the "look what I brought" meeting where the two of them are hugging each other - I still wonder why that was cut as it seems a shame that the last physical affection we see is in the motel room, 16 years before their last meeting (apart from the last night together of course)

Anyway, I think I've probably strayed off topic here, but hopefully it's relevant to the discussion that Patriot1 started

I hate to pick faults with the movie,but that scene doesn't look right without the hug.I mean, Jack stands up as soon as he sees Ennis's truck, and his face breaks into a mega-watt smile, then Ennis gets out of the truck, also smiling from ear to ear, they're both just over-joyed to see each other...then apparently Jack sits back down, and waits for Ennis to stroll along and join him by the fire Doesn't make sense to me

Anyway, back ot, I agree with the majority of posts here, I would much rather see Ennis and Jack sharing the afterglow in the motel scene, than actually having sex.Not that I would object particularly to another sex scene, but it wouldn't add anything to the film, and would just be there for gratuitous reasons. We know they had amazing sex together, but scenes like the motel show how much, much more there was to them being together
Another little moment I love is when Ennis says "I didn't think I'd ever hear from you again" and Jack replies what I guess is supposed to be "No", but he sort of murmurs it, so it comes out like "naah...mmm", I can't write it properly, but I'm sure you know what I mean ;)It's silly really,but I think it just sounds so sweet    

[shieldmaid]

I hate to pick faults with the movie,but that scene doesn't look right without the hug.I mean, Jack stands up as soon as he sees Ennis's truck, and his face breaks into a mega-watt smile, then Ennis gets out of the truck, also smiling from ear to ear, they're both just over-joyed to see each other...then apparently Jack sits back down, and waits for Ennis to stroll along and join him by the fire Doesn't make sense to me

Anyway, back ot, I agree with the majority of posts here, I would much rather see Ennis and Jack sharing the afterglow in the motel scene, than actually having sex.Not that I would object particularly to another sex scene, but it wouldn't add anything to the film, and would just be there for gratuitous reasons. We know they had amazing sex together, but scenes like the motel show how much, much more there was to them being together
Another little moment I love is when Ennis says "I didn't think I'd ever hear from you again" and Jack replies what I guess is supposed to be "No", but he sort of murmurs it, so it comes out like "naah...mmm", I can't write it properly, but I'm sure you know what I mean ;)It's silly really,but I think it just sounds so sweet    

CrimsonSky, that is such an interesting point.  I never thought about the editing in this reunion scene before--but you're totally right.  I have to agree with many other people here in saying that the movie would never have had such a great impact on us if it had not contained these few, precious moments of tenderness between Ennis and Jack.  Reading the screenplay can only fuel our desire to see more of the love between them--notice I didn't say sex!--because when they do express it, it makes all the pain and separation (almost) worthwhile.  I guess that's why I've always loved the motel scene--after we have watched several minutes depicting their lives with wives and children, to see them practically igniting with their shared passion and then touching each other (yes, the arm stroking in the motel bed and YES, Jack stroking the side of Ennis's face by the fire) is like a reward for patience.  A great gift.

[stacp]

I agree with you that a touch, a hug, or a smile between Jack and Ennis means so much more than any sex scene.  I would have loved to have seen more intimacy between them at their last meeting, akin to the motel scene.  Sigh. 

[tpe]

I agree with you that a touch, a hug, or a smile between Jack and Ennis means so much more than any sex scene.  I would have loved to have seen more intimacy between them at their last meeting, akin to the motel scene.  Sigh. 

Although we only see a mere glance of this, I do think there is such a scene: Ennis asleep, with his arms around Jack, on the last (?) night of their last meeting.  In an earlier post, I had commented that an older friend of mine has marked this as the most beautiful scene in the entire movie (for him, at least).  This is probably the closest hint we get of a comfortable intimacy shared between the two.

[welshwitch]

The shared smile over their supposed exploits with Cassie and LaShawn then that shot of them asleep with Ennis's arm round Jack suggest just a close friendship, born of years of knowing each other and being comfortable in each other's company - which only makes the confrontation scen more poignant as well as unexpected.

[gimmejack]

The shared smile over their supposed exploits with Cassie and LaShawn then that shot of them asleep with Ennis's arm round Jack suggest just a close friendship, born of years of knowing each other and being comfortable in each other's company - which only makes the confrontation scen more poignant as well as unexpected.

Very true...many sweet and many painful & unexpected surprises.  What an emotional rollor coaster ride!

[dalemidex]

Although we only see a mere glance of this, I do think there is such a scene: Ennis asleep, with his arms around Jack, on the last (?) night of their last meeting.  In an earlier post, I had commented that an older friend of mine has marked this as the most beautiful scene in the entire movie (for him, at least).  This is probably the closest hint we get of a comfortable intimacy shared between the two.

That is among my favorite moments in the movie.  It does certainly give us that indication of everyday intimacy between the two of them.  And I think this is important and meaningful because they only were together periodically.  The glimpse of them sleeping in the tent suggests to me that they were not intermittant lovers, but instead real loves who could only be together on rare occasions. 

Just as important to me is where it lies in the film.  By that point we're seeing fatigue in their relationship, and necessarily so.  Gone is the heady youthful excitement we're treated to earlier.  There's a mid-1970's scene where Ennis and Jack are riding horses through a river and neither of them looks particularly happy or excited which gets to me every time. It shows me that age is starting to weigh on both men and their relationship.  Also prior to this "sleeping tent scene" we've seen them rehash arguments on the central conflict of their relationship (how to be together) again and again.  And the sleeping tent scene comes right after Ennis, with his silence, denies Jack's declaration "truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".  He denies it by looking down and not responding.   All this, at least in my mind, chips away at the vision of love I have for Ennis and Jack. Makes me fear it is being lost. The simple, brief scene of them sleeping so close together with an arm wrapping them together, shows me that there IS something deeper there that time and circumstance have not erroded.  They still desperately want to be together.  This three seconds of sleeping tent are critical to me.

[NoReins]

Although we only see a mere glance of this, I do think there is such a scene: Ennis asleep, with his arms around Jack, on the last (?) night of their last meeting.  In an earlier post, I had commented that an older friend of mine has marked this as the most beautiful scene in the entire movie (for him, at least).  This is probably the closest hint we get of a comfortable intimacy shared between the two.

That is among my favorite moments in the movie.  It does certainly give us that indication of everyday intimacy between the two of them.  And I think this is important and meaningful because they only were together periodically.  The glimpse of them sleeping in the tent suggests to me that they were not intermittant lovers, but instead real loves who could only be together on rare occasions. 

Just as important to me is where it lies in the film.  By that point we're seeing fatigue in their relationship, and necessarily so.  Gone is the heady youthful excitement we're treated to earlier.  There's a mid-1970's scene where Ennis and Jack are riding horses through a river and neither of them looks particularly happy or excited which gets to me every time. It shows me that age is starting to weigh on both men and their relationship.  Also prior to this "sleeping tent scene" we've seen them rehash arguments on the central conflict of their relationship (how to be together) again and again.  And the sleeping tent scene comes right after Ennis, with his silence, denies Jack's declaration "truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".  He denies it by looking down and not responding.   All this, at least in my mind, chips away at the vision of love I have for Ennis and Jack. Makes me fear it is being lost. The simple, brief scene of them sleeping so close together with an arm wrapping them together, shows me that there IS something deeper there that time and circumstance have not erroded.  They still desperately want to be together.  This three seconds of sleeping tent are critical to me.

Very well said. I only really have one thing to add and that's to draw a parallel between the motel room scene and this final tent scene (to smoothly get us back on topic, you know )

When Jack talks of redlining it all the way and whispers "Old Brokeback got us good, don't it" in the motel, I think he's saying "I fell in love with you up there and nothing has changed". He asks Ennis how he feels and gets a mumbled "ahdunno" in response....but at that same time Ennis caresses his arm which to me shows that he does feel the same way as Jack, but he can't say it. Then, in their final meeting Jack tells Ennis "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" and, as dalemidex rightly says, Ennis doesn't respond....but then we see them in the tent and Ennis has his arm round Jack, holding him tenderly as he sleeps. Again, to me, this is Ennis's way of saying that he feels the same, once again responding with a physical show of love rather than a verbal one. Maybe that's why those three seconds are so important to me, too.

[MississaugaRed]

Very well said. I only really have one thing to add and that's to draw a parallel between the motel room scene and this final tent scene (to smoothly get us back on topic, you know )

When Jack talks of redlining it all the way and whispers "Old Brokeback got us good, don't it" in the motel, I think he's saying "I fell in love with you up there and nothing has changed". He asks Ennis how he feels and gets a mumbled "ahdunno" in response....but at that same time Ennis caresses his arm which to me shows that he does feel the same way as Jack, but he can't say it. Then, in their final meeting Jack tells Ennis "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" and, as dalemidex rightly says, Ennis doesn't respond....but then we see them in the tent and Ennis has his arm round Jack, holding him tenderly as he sleeps. Again, to me, this is Ennis's way of saying that he feels the same, once again responding with a physical show of love rather than a verbal one. Maybe that's why those three seconds are so important to me, too.

NoReins, this is a great connection you've made, between Ennis's inability to vocalize his feelings, and his attempts to instead substitute a physical response.  I love it!

Now I'm going to be very aware of this, not just in this quiet oasis of a scene but in all those Ennis moments of in-articulation.  He does this both lovingly with Jack, and also in violence, like that punch the last day on Brokeback that they speak of.  He often breaks out in violence when words fail him (kitchen scene with Alma for instance). 

Part of why we all love this scene so much, I think, is because of the tenderness it shows between them ... and tenderness is often unspoken, simply expressed with the body.  Just seeing Ennis lying back in Jack's arms, there is a vulnerability there that a man like Ennis would only show to someone he trusted and loved completely.  As you pointed out, NoReins, Ennis speaks with his body more than his voice many times.

I'm actually glad that the motel scene didn't show them having sex, only this part of lying peacefully in each other's arms. we have enough fanfiction to satisfy our imagination considering this scene and others, and it's best to leave it at the fanfiction department, IMO. As far as the movie is concerned - a gentle touch, like Jack carressing Ennis's cheek in the "ain't no reins on this one" scene, says more about the feelings they share than any sex scene could ever say. it is more of these moments that I'd like to see between them.

keren_b, very true, we see their love in the gentle way they can be with each other, as well as the rough.  These few moments being some of the sweetest.

It occurs to me, though, as we're all having our wish list of more moments we would have liked to have seen between them (myself definitely included!), that this is EXACTLY how it should be, how Ang Lee and Annie likely planned it. 

If it's this bad for us, imagine what Jack and Ennis suffered?  They lived for 20 years on only a few stolen moments, "Islands of time" as one great fanfic writer said, had to live on those in the in-between times.  Best case scenario ... if it were a full 20 years, and a full 3 weeks per year, they would have had at most 420 days together. 

420 days out of 20 YEARS to be with the other half of your soul.

Seems only right, doesn't it, that our desires for more go unfulfilled, leave us aching?  I think in a way it brings us closer to the truth of their lives. (just MHO - and likely another way in which BBM is beyond brilliant)

[tpe]

Although we only see a mere glance of this, I do think there is such a scene: Ennis asleep, with his arms around Jack, on the last (?) night of their last meeting.  In an earlier post, I had commented that an older friend of mine has marked this as the most beautiful scene in the entire movie (for him, at least).  This is probably the closest hint we get of a comfortable intimacy shared between the two.

That is among my favorite moments in the movie.  It does certainly give us that indication of everyday intimacy between the two of them.  And I think this is important and meaningful because they only were together periodically.  The glimpse of them sleeping in the tent suggests to me that they were not intermittant lovers, but instead real loves who could only be together on rare occasions. 

Just as important to me is where it lies in the film.  By that point we're seeing fatigue in their relationship, and necessarily so.  Gone is the heady youthful excitement we're treated to earlier.  There's a mid-1970's scene where Ennis and Jack are riding horses through a river and neither of them looks particularly happy or excited which gets to me every time. It shows me that age is starting to weigh on both men and their relationship.  Also prior to this "sleeping tent scene" we've seen them rehash arguments on the central conflict of their relationship (how to be together) again and again.  And the sleeping tent scene comes right after Ennis, with his silence, denies Jack's declaration "truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".  He denies it by looking down and not responding.   All this, at least in my mind, chips away at the vision of love I have for Ennis and Jack. Makes me fear it is being lost. The simple, brief scene of them sleeping so close together with an arm wrapping them together, shows me that there IS something deeper there that time and circumstance have not erroded.  They still desperately want to be together.  This three seconds of sleeping tent are critical to me.

dalemidex, as a contrast to the motel room scene, there is a sadness here that is beyond grief.  In the motel room scene, you know that they are comfortable in their love.  In the last night embrace, you also sense that they are secure in their love.  But your last paragraph hints that there is a world of difference between the two moments.

The motel room scene is a new beginning.  The last meeting is the beginning of an end.

 

[tpe]

Seems only right, doesn't it, that our desires for more go unfulfilled, leave us aching?  I think in a way it brings us closer to the truth of their lives. (just MHO - and likely another way in which BBM is beyond brilliant)

So true.  Achingly so.

[stacp]

Seems only right, doesn't it, that our desires for more go unfulfilled, leave us aching?  I think in a way it brings us closer to the truth of their lives. (just MHO - and likely another way in which BBM is beyond brilliant)

So true.  Achingly so.

The movie left us wanting more time for Jack and Ennis, just like they must have felt.  Brilliant but tragic.  :\'(

[tpe]

The movie left us wanting more time for Jack and Ennis, just like they must have felt.  Brilliant but tragic.  :\'(

You are so right here.  We feel their pain, their lack of time together. 

[ksxks]

Personally I wouldn't object more intimate scenes like the motel room scene. no, I'm not asking for another FNIT, I don't expect to see them screwing (pardon my bluntness) throughout the whole film, I guess that would really be tasteless. But a scene like the motel room - you don't see them having sex, you see them in a rare moment of closeness and intimacy, you see the deep love they share with each other. you see that in their smiles, in the way Jack holds Ennis and whispers into his hair, in the way Ennis strokes Jack's arm. that's totally beautifull and there's no harm in wanting a few more moments like that, I think... because after the reunion we barely see any signs of affection on their part, we see them riding and talking and arguing but we hardly see them show affection for each other, with the exeption of the last night when we see them sleeping and Ennis has his arm around Jack. one can almost get the feeling that they really are just fishing buddies, and we know they're so much more. I'd love to see more moments of love, tenderness, happiness between them - it doesn't have to be sex. but something like the motel room scene, when they're just lying in each other's arms and you know that both of them are so happy and peacefull now, and you can feel their love and their joy fill your heart - yeah, I definitelly wouldn't mind seeing more of that. we've all cried so much over their tragedy, it's only natural we'd want to share their few moments of bliss.

Yes, Keren, I really would have loved to see more intimacy between them when they were older -- it wouldn't have had to be an overt sex scene, but like the motel scene, as you said.  Unfortunately, aside from that one sleeping scene in the tent, in the scenes when they're older mostly what we see is their arguing.  I would have loved to have seen more affection...

kathy

[ksxks]

To answer your question Patriot...... yes I have rented porn movies, and no, it was not as satisfying as Jack and Ennis in
the intimate scenes of this movie !

I agree.  "Gay porn" is usually not "beautiful gay love story."  We love the sex in BBM not just because it's two hot guys, but because of the beauty of their love...

kathy

[ksxks]

On a more general note, we're all here because we have a deep love and respect for Ennis and Jack and their story, we can agree to disagree on certain points (after all, different people can't be expected to think and feel exactly the same on everything), as long as we remember that each one of us has his/her sensitivities and "soft spots", and we remember to respect that. I can definitely understand Patriot's POV and identify with it. everybody has a right to speak out if something bothers them, lets just try to discuss it with each other in a mature and open way and listen to each other's POV, and remember that mutual respect is the key here. that's all I'm saying.

Good words, Keren.  And I think we can't help but find some differences in feelings here, being men and women, gay and straight, and all the other permutations.  And that's one thing I love about ennisjack.com. 

Everyone has their own take on what this story means to them.  I think if I were a lesbian and the movie was about two women, and all these guys (especially straight guys) were here saying, "hot damn, gimme more of that hot gal-sex," I might say, "Go to a stripper bar, guys.  This is a monumental love story and you're only thinking about how hot these babes are."  So I can relate to Patriot's post in that way.

It's a new thing to some women here to find themselves so moved by a love story between men, and because Ennis and Jack are indeed so "hot," well hey -- we certainly like to celebrate their beauty.  And having some fun in some of these threads seems essential.  There is a lot of serious discussion here on this forum, and we all can use some craziness sometimes.  Having some fun with this story and these characters is certainly done with love...  This story is about love and sex, and about "different" love and sex (or so they thought of it at the time), and of course we're going to talk about love and sex...

kathy

[ksxks]

That is among my favorite moments in the movie.  It does certainly give us that indication of everyday intimacy between the two of them.  And I think this is important and meaningful because they only were together periodically.  The glimpse of them sleeping in the tent suggests to me that they were not intermittant lovers, but instead real loves who could only be together on rare occasions. 

Just as important to me is where it lies in the film.  By that point we're seeing fatigue in their relationship, and necessarily so.  Gone is the heady youthful excitement we're treated to earlier.  There's a mid-1970's scene where Ennis and Jack are riding horses through a river and neither of them looks particularly happy or excited which gets to me every time. It shows me that age is starting to weigh on both men and their relationship.  Also prior to this "sleeping tent scene" we've seen them rehash arguments on the central conflict of their relationship (how to be together) again and again.  And the sleeping tent scene comes right after Ennis, with his silence, denies Jack's declaration "truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".  He denies it by looking down and not responding.   All this, at least in my mind, chips away at the vision of love I have for Ennis and Jack. Makes me fear it is being lost. The simple, brief scene of them sleeping so close together with an arm wrapping them together, shows me that there IS something deeper there that time and circumstance have not erroded.  They still desperately want to be together.  This three seconds of sleeping tent are critical to me.

Oh, you are so right.  As I just said in another post, mostly what we saw in their later years together was arguing, not much affection shown.  But I like how you've expressed this.  We see scenes such as their riding horses through the river, where they don't look happy at all (and that always pains me, also) but that makes the sleeping in the tent scene all the more important, to show us...what you said so eloquently above.

kathy

[karen1129]

I always think about the book when it comes to the "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it"
THere, Ennis put his arm around Jack, and pulled him close .  I so wish Ang would have put this in
the movie, but I guess the arm over Jack in the tent that night was suppose to make up for that.
I don't know.     

[ksxks]

NoReins, this is a great connection you've made, between Ennis's inability to vocalize his feelings, and his attempts to instead substitute a physical response.  I love it!

Now I'm going to be very aware of this, not just in this quiet oasis of a scene but in all those Ennis moments of in-articulation.  He does this both lovingly with Jack, and also in violence, like that punch the last day on Brokeback that they speak of.  He often breaks out in violence when words fail him (kitchen scene with Alma for instance). 

Part of why we all love this scene so much, I think, is because of the tenderness it shows between them ... and tenderness is often unspoken, simply expressed with the body.  Just seeing Ennis lying back in Jack's arms, there is a vulnerability there that a man like Ennis would only show to someone he trusted and loved completely.  As you pointed out, NoReins, Ennis speaks with his body more than his voice many times.

This discussion is so beautiful, I feel myself all welling up with emotion again (not that isn't pretty much a constant state).  I love what you said about Ennis expressing himself physically, not verbally -- and there's got to be a whole lot more instances of this throughout the movie.  But especially, the motel scene, as you said:  Ennis lying like that in Jack's arms -- this is an extraordinary show of trust and love for a man like Ennis.  So beautiful.

Tons of other examples, but they shouldn't necessarily go here in this thread.  Such as Ennis shooting the elk because Jack's sick o' beans...  More later

kathy

[ksxks]

...
The motel room scene is a new beginning.  The last meeting is the beginning of an end.

Thanks a lot, tpe.  I'm at my desk at work  :\'(

kathy

[dalemidex]

dalemidex, as a contrast to the motel room scene, there is a sadness here that is beyond grief.  In the motel room scene, you know that they are comfortable in their love.  In the last night embrace, you also sense that they are secure in their love.  But your last paragraph hints that there is a world of difference between the two moments.

The motel room scene is a new beginning.  The last meeting is the beginning of an end.

So very true...and very sad.   

[edgar]

That is among my favorite moments in the movie.  It does certainly give us that indication of everyday intimacy between the two of them.  And I think this is important and meaningful because they only were together periodically.  The glimpse of them sleeping in the tent suggests to me that they were not intermittant lovers, but instead real loves who could only be together on rare occasions. 

Just as important to me is where it lies in the film.  By that point we're seeing fatigue in their relationship, and necessarily so.  Gone is the heady youthful excitement we're treated to earlier.  There's a mid-1970's scene where Ennis and Jack are riding horses through a river and neither of them looks particularly happy or excited which gets to me every time. It shows me that age is starting to weigh on both men and their relationship.  Also prior to this "sleeping tent scene" we've seen them rehash arguments on the central conflict of their relationship (how to be together) again and again.  And the sleeping tent scene comes right after Ennis, with his silence, denies Jack's declaration "truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".  He denies it by looking down and not responding.   All this, at least in my mind, chips away at the vision of love I have for Ennis and Jack. Makes me fear it is being lost. The simple, brief scene of them sleeping so close together with an arm wrapping them together, shows me that there IS something deeper there that time and circumstance have not erroded.  They still desperately want to be together.  This three seconds of sleeping tent are critical to me.

Oh, you are so right.  As I just said in another post, mostly what we saw in their later years together was arguing, not much affection shown.  But I like how you've expressed this.  We see scenes such as their riding horses through the river, where they don't look happy at all (and that always pains me, also) but that makes the sleeping in the tent scene all the more important, to show us...what you said so eloquently above.

kathy

Oh.  :\'(

I think I just realized that the last hug, the last conscious affection (since the sleeping arm thing seems to be unconscious) we see is the hug after Ennis's divorce.

Wow. That makes that scene even more of a turning point in the relationship. And Ennis pulled away, and was making sure nobody saw... And that was that.

Of course, they certainly hugged (and more) later in their relationship, but Lee has shut us out of seeing such moments. As Keren pointed out--there is a palpable absence of a hug after "I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."

In this way, we don't just realize the creeping chill in their relationship; we actually experience it (probably without even knowing it).

sigh.