Author Topic: Until the shirts / the shirts in the closet  (Read 97123 times)

Offline Patriot1

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Until the shirts / the shirts in the closet
« on: Feb 04, 2006, 05:48 PM »
Until Ennis saw the two shirts in Jacks room do you think he really knew how much Jack loved him and that it was more than a deep sexual friendship?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

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Offline rikcub

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #1 on: Feb 04, 2006, 06:33 PM »
Until Ennis saw the two shirts in Jacks room do you think he really knew how much Jack loved him and that it was more than a deep sexual friendship?

Inquiring minds want to know.


Jack had told him and demonstrated it on many occasions so I think he knew.  Having said that I believe the full impact hit him when he found the shirts.  Plus at that point he knew it was too late to do anything about it.  :'(

Offline Patriot1

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #2 on: Feb 04, 2006, 07:23 PM »
Jack had told him and demonstrated it on many occasions so I think he knew.  Having said that I believe the full impact hit him when he found the shirts.  Plus at that point he knew it was too late to do anything about it.  :'(

Yes, Jack had told him but Ennis knew Jack was going to Mexico.  Ennis on the other hand stayed celibate (except with Alma of course.  But even that was half hearted and with little to no love.) So with Jack going to Mexico could Ennis have thought Jack was just saying he cared for Ennis?

When Ennis told Jack that what he didn't know could get Jack killed I heard, I love you more than anyone I have ever loved in my life and you don't really feel the same way because you go to Mexico while I do without.

I don't know ... just thinking "out loud."
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Offline rane99

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #3 on: Feb 04, 2006, 07:26 PM »
I think Ennis knew. For a guy to ask another guy in that time and place to want to ranch together was pretty bold.  Jack clearly made his intentions known. I think since Jack made it clear to Ennis on their last trip that 'Brokeback Mountain was all they had' for Ennis to find those shirts from their  first trip to Brokeback, thus finding a piece of Jack, he is telling us what he wanted but not able to ask for.  For Ennis to want those shirts, not to mention letting Jack's parents know he wanted them shows some growth on Ennis' part.
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Offline Patriot1

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #4 on: Feb 04, 2006, 09:46 PM »
I think Ennis knew. For a guy to ask another guy in that time and place to want to ranch together was pretty bold.

Yes, that is true.  But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.

I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.

Annie wrote it and Ang made it so there could be any interpretation of the scene.  That is why they are such great artists.  But I was just wondering what others came away with from that scene.

I appreciate everyone's input.

That was such a beautiful scene I still get teary eyed thinking about it.

Quote
For Ennis to want those shirts, not to mention letting Jack's parents know he wanted them shows some growth on Ennis' part.

Oh yes, I agree.  I felt like at that point he didn't care if anyone knew his feelings for Jack.  He had been so fearful of anyone knowing until that point.
Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #5 on: Feb 04, 2006, 10:05 PM »
I think Ennis knew, but not how deeply that silent current was running. Running it was, strong, swift, and full tilt. I think when he saw the shirts he finally understood the depth of love that Jack had for him. The shirt scene gets me ever time. But I will tell you, it makes me realize how precious any time is spent with the one you love.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline rabjr1

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #6 on: Feb 06, 2006, 07:54 AM »
Think about it, Ennis gets the news that Jack is dead through the MAIL!!!!!  so cold  followed by Lureen, Lady Stinking Macbeth, Twist's conversation.

You have been in love with a man for 20 years starting at the best time of your life. You find out he was killed months earlier you never got to see him  or go to his funeral.  You have no closure.  He was creamated there is nothing left but ashes and you don't even get to see them.  That to me is the most unbearable pain anyone could suffer.  You have lost the love of your life and there is NOTHING left??!!????
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #7 on: Feb 06, 2006, 09:45 AM »
Pretty cold hearted, I agree, but on the other hand, Ennis could have written sooner, hell he should of been calling Jack.
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Offline rabjr1

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #8 on: Feb 06, 2006, 02:48 PM »
Communication was not one of their strong suits, you're right he should have called more often but maybe that is just how they kept in contact- by postcard. 
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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #9 on: Feb 06, 2006, 10:41 PM »
Think about it, Ennis gets the news that Jack is dead through the MAIL!!!!!  so cold  followed by Lureen, Lady Stinking Macbeth, Twist's conversation.

You have been in love with a man for 20 years starting at the best time of your life. You find out he was killed months earlier you never got to see him  or go to his funeral.  You have no closure.  He was creamated there is nothing left but ashes and you don't even get to see them.  That to me is the most unbearable pain anyone could suffer.  You have lost the love of your life and there is NOTHING left??!!????

Thanks robj1.  You wrote what I couldn't.  There is no closure.  Ennis didn't get to go to the funeral like you said or even see the ashes when he went to Lightnin Flat, which I found strange.  I don't think Ennis went to Texas either so really he didn't have a chance to say a final goodbye Jack F****** Twist.  To lose any human being is hard, but to lose the love of your life is even harder I think, especially for someone like Ennis.  As humans we all need closure and without it the wound is wide open and raw.  I think this is why the story is haunting and sad.  All this because a card was returned stamped DECEASED.  Can you imagine what would have happend if the card never came back.  Okay, Ennis would have called but if he didn't...yikes...

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #10 on: Feb 06, 2006, 10:51 PM »
How callous and cold to get a postcard back stamped deceased, Lureen = ice princess. She had to be the one who sent it back! I can't and don't want to imagine what I would go through if I lost my Bubba.
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Offline rabjr1

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #11 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:34 AM »
I learned an interesting thing about the dynamics of death.  It brings out the worst in the people you expect the best from and the best from people you never expect anything from.  I went through a friends death 16 years ago and while some of his relatives were ripping him off just hours before he died I chose to onlyl remember a simple act of kindness from a casual acquaintance that helped me get through it all and get closure. 
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Offline Sweet Soul Ennis

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #12 on: Feb 07, 2006, 07:49 AM »
Yes, that is true.  But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.

I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.

In the story, I got a similiar sense about Jack: that he enjoyed Ennis's company and the fantastic physical connection, but wanted to live with Ennis strictly based on that.  This came through in the motel scene.   So when I got to the part where Ennis finds the shirts, I struck, and heartbroken, to discover that Jack really did love him, as why else would he have saved those shirts and wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback?

In the movie, Jack seemed to be more sensitive and in love with Ennis than in the story.
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Offline justlikethisalways

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #13 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:16 PM »
Yes, that is true.  But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.

I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.

In the story, I got a similiar sense about Jack: that he enjoyed Ennis's company and the fantastic physical connection, but wanted to live with Ennis strictly based on that.  This came through in the motel scene.   So when I got to the part where Ennis finds the shirts, I struck, and heartbroken, to discover that Jack really did love him, as why else would he have saved those shirts and wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback?

In the movie, Jack seemed to be more sensitive and in love with Ennis than in the story.

I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact. In contrast, the only time Ennis spontaneously shows Jack affection is in the "dozy embrace" (the flashback at their last meeting). And even then there's a bittersweet note in that scene -- Ennis would not embrace Jack face-to-face because he couldn't acknowledge that it was a man he was being intimate with.

To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally. And he was much more than a sex partner to Ennis. He was Ennis' angel. While Ennis was strong physically (violent), Jack was strong spiritually (protective and nurturing). Whenever Jack senses Ennis is hurt/vulnerable, he immediately helps and comforts Ennis. After Ennis is thrown from his horse, Jack gives Ennis his bandana to clean his wound. In the BBM fight scene, Jack says "come here, you're okay" (the short story calls him a "ministering angel" in this scene); in the 2nd tent scene, Jack whispers "it's all right"; during their 1st fishing trip when Ennis says "no reins on this one", Jack tenderly brushes his cheek; during their last meeting, when Ennis collapses, Jack embraces him and once again says "it's all right". And of course, the ultimate symbol of Jack embracing and protecting Ennis -- the shirts. I think all of these actions more than make up for the missing verbal declaration of Jack's love for Ennis.

How many of us ever have someone like Jack, so dedicated and attuned to our vulnerabilities, always there to rush in and pick us up when we fall? Ennis' great tragedy is that he had this and pushed it away, and when finally called on it, he let it walk away. "Jack, I swear" is a silent acknowledgement of his huge mistake.

Sorry for rambling...

Offline jimmypage

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #14 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:35 PM »

I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact. In contrast, the only time Ennis spontaneously shows Jack affection is in the "dozy embrace" (the flashback at their last meeting). And even then there's a bittersweet note in that scene -- Ennis would not embrace Jack face-to-face because he couldn't acknowledge that it was a man he was being intimate with.

To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally. And he was much more than a sex partner to Ennis. He was Ennis' angel. While Ennis was strong physically (violent), Jack was strong spiritually (protective and nurturing). Whenever Jack senses Ennis is hurt/vulnerable, he immediately helps and comforts Ennis. After Ennis is thrown from his horse, Jack gives Ennis his bandana to clean his wound. In the BBM fight scene, Jack says "come here, you're okay" (the short story calls him a "ministering angel" in this scene); in the 2nd tent scene, Jack whispers "it's all right"; during their 1st fishing trip when Ennis says "no reins on this one", Jack tenderly brushes his cheek; during their last meeting, when Ennis collapses, Jack embraces him and once again says "it's all right". And of course, the ultimate symbol of Jack embracing and protecting Ennis -- the shirts. I think all of these actions more than make up for the missing verbal declaration of Jack's love for Ennis.

How many of us ever have someone like Jack, so dedicated and attuned to our vulnerabilities, always there to rush in and pick us up when we fall? Ennis' great tragedy is that he had this and pushed it away, and when finally called on it, he let it walk away. "Jack, I swear" is a silent acknowledgement of his huge mistake.

OMG  :'(

Offline septuaginarian

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #15 on: Feb 07, 2006, 02:09 PM »
The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition.  2002.
 
Had we but world enough, and time, / This coyness, Lady, were no crime
 
 
The first lines of “To His Coy Mistress,” a poem by the seventeenth-century English poet Andrew Marvell. The poet tells a woman whom he loves that if they had endless time and space at their disposal, then he could accept her unwillingness to go to bed with him. Life is short, however, and opportunities must be seized.   1
 
 
The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. Edited by E.D. Hirsch, Jr., Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil. Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
septuaginarian

Offline Sweet Soul Ennis

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #16 on: Feb 07, 2006, 03:10 PM »
I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact.

To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally.


Yes, I think you're right.  What I meant is the contrast between the movie and story.  I read the story first, and because of it's shorthand style, I was unsure about how deeply Jack really felt until the end when Ennis finds the shirts and hears about Jack wanting his ashes spread on the mountain.  For me, I suddenly realized, at the end, that there was much more in Jack than what met the eye.  Despite Jack's lies and seeing other men, he still held a special place for Ennis.  In the movie, however, the writers portrayed Jack's feelings earlier in the script, instead of waiting until the end to tell the audience that he really loved Ennis.
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #17 on: Feb 07, 2006, 03:43 PM »
Yes, that is true.  But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.

I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.

In the story, I got a similiar sense about Jack: that he enjoyed Ennis's company and the fantastic physical connection, but wanted to live with Ennis strictly based on that.  This came through in the motel scene.   So when I got to the part where Ennis finds the shirts, I struck, and heartbroken, to discover that Jack really did love him, as why else would he have saved those shirts and wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback?

In the movie, Jack seemed to be more sensitive and in love with Ennis than in the story.

I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact. In contrast, the only time Ennis spontaneously shows Jack affection is in the "dozy embrace" (the flashback at their last meeting). And even then there's a bittersweet note in that scene -- Ennis would not embrace Jack face-to-face because he couldn't acknowledge that it was a man he was being intimate with.

To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally. And he was much more than a sex partner to Ennis. He was Ennis' angel. While Ennis was strong physically (violent), Jack was strong spiritually (protective and nurturing). Whenever Jack senses Ennis is hurt/vulnerable, he immediately helps and comforts Ennis. After Ennis is thrown from his horse, Jack gives Ennis his bandana to clean his wound. In the BBM fight scene, Jack says "come here, you're okay" (the short story calls him a "ministering angel" in this scene); in the 2nd tent scene, Jack whispers "it's all right"; during their 1st fishing trip when Ennis says "no reins on this one", Jack tenderly brushes his cheek; during their last meeting, when Ennis collapses, Jack embraces him and once again says "it's all right". And of course, the ultimate symbol of Jack embracing and protecting Ennis -- the shirts. I think all of these actions more than make up for the missing verbal declaration of Jack's love for Ennis.

How many of us ever have someone like Jack, so dedicated and attuned to our vulnerabilities, always there to rush in and pick us up when we fall? Ennis' great tragedy is that he had this and pushed it away, and when finally called on it, he let it walk away. "Jack, I swear" is a silent acknowledgement of his huge mistake.

Sorry for rambling...

Ramble on, that was beautiful... :'(
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline n061857

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Re: Until the shirts...
« Reply #18 on: Mar 25, 2006, 09:28 PM »
I think Ennis knows that Jack loves him, but perhaps not the depth of his love and certainly not its duration. These are my reasons:

1. When the boys are told that the summer must end, Jack shows no emotion.

2. Jack meets, falls in love with and marries someone else AFTER meeting Ennis.  (Ennis had already promised himself, didn't see
    a future with Jack, so what the hay?)

3. Jack goes back for work the next year, but when he doesn't get it he moves on.  He doesn't look up Ennis.

4. Jack takes 4 years to contact Ennis.

5. Jack remains married and has numerous sexual partners.  He doesn't seem to be bothered that they are not Ennis or male at
    all, at least to Ennis's  knowledge.

6. Jack all but admits he has been with other men.

7. Jack tells his dad he is leaving Lureen and shacking up with another man.

I believe Ennis has a hard time not being true to his heart.  He cannot maintain sexual relations with either Alma or Cassie.  I believe he breaks things off with Cassie, because he is so hurt by the thought of Jack's infidelity with other men.  So, he decides to widen his definition of fidelity to include women.  Also his feelings of jealousy intensify his love for Jack, thereby making sex with Cassie unsatisfying.  Ennis knows how he felt for Jack one year after BBM, when he figures out why he was sick that day.  When he sees those shirts, he finally realizes that Jack loved him right from the start as he had.

Sunflower79

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the shirts in the closet
« Reply #19 on: Apr 23, 2006, 07:46 PM »
I was wondering what people thought when they saw the shirts Jack had left in the closet at the end of the movie..I think Ennis realizes that Jack did really and true love him and care..it was brought to my attention from Jake's email group that at first Jacks' first was over Ennis shirt..like he was holding on to him and embracing him..and later back at Ennis closet the shirts were changed, Ennis shirt was hugging Jack's shirt..I really found that beauitful. :'( :'( :'(.that Ennis would want to embrace Jack with all his heart, soul and love. That he finally realized what a special love he did have...and that bound will always stay with him.. :'( :'( :'(..

Offline proulxfan

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #20 on: Apr 23, 2006, 07:58 PM »
That reversal of Ennis's and Jack's shirts was the first place I teared up the first time I saw the film. :'( And the idea for reversing them is supposed to have come from Heath Ledger himself. Bless him! ;)
« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2006, 08:11 PM by proulxfan »
Jack: " Nice to know you, Ennis Del Mar."

Offline TJ

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #21 on: Apr 23, 2006, 08:25 PM »
I like the way that Heath Ledger decided to switch the shirts in the movie; but, in the book, the shirts were only in Jack's boyhood bedroom closet hidden in a slight jog in the wall.

I got the impression from the book that that Jack's shirt was over Ennis's shirt like a hand in a glove and the shirts were hanging suspended from a nail and not on a hanger. There was no door on the closet at the Twist place, a curtain hung in front of the clothes on hangers.

In the book, Ennis did not hide the shirts in a closet; he put them on a hanger and hung the hanger on a nail he had driven into the wall of the trailer below the postcard which had a brass-headed tack in each corner. I think by that gesture, Ennis was slowly walking out of his own closeted life.

In the "prologue" of the published book, the shirts are not hanging stiffly inside of a closet but move in the draft going through the trailer. Ennis is getting ready to move in that book scene and I see it with him moving on with his life, too.

I felt a certain kind of warmth when I read those two paragraphs in the book before the story "flashes back" to Signal in 1963. The ranch where the trailer is in the prologue is "in Signal," too.

Several months ago, before I ever posted in this forum, I was in a discussion about the prologue and I said it reminded me of when I use to go to saturday afternoon matinees with an uncle who was two years older than me. In those days, it was not uncommon for a person who arrived late to stay for the start of the next screening and then leave at the part which was referred to as "this is where we came in."
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline edgar

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #22 on: Apr 24, 2006, 12:10 AM »
Speaking of the shirts...

In the movie, we see what happened. Jack's mom, seeming to know what the deal was between Ennis and Jack, is very accomodating and gets him a sack to take the shirts out.

In the book, John is evil and uncooperative. The mom is pretty invisible (though polite enough to offer the cherry cake and make a formulaic invite to come back some time).

Here's the question: In the book, How did Ennis get the shirts? Here's the excerpt, starting with Ennis sniffing the shirts in the closet:

[...] breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands.

In the end the stud duck refused to let Jack's ashes go. "Tell you what, we got a family plot and he's goin in it." Jack's mother stood at the table coring apples with a sharp, serrated instrument. "You come again," she said.
[end quote]

So what happened?

Option 1: Ennis somehow managed to steal the shirts. He would have had to take them off the hanger and stuff them in his jacket.
Option 2: When Ennis got back to the kitchen, he asked the stud duck or the woman with the "sharp, serrated instrument" for the shirts and they said yes. (I can't imagine the stud duck cutting Ennis any slack.)
Option 3: Ennis takes Jack's mom up on her invite--even though she probably didn't mean it (in the story)--and comes back another time when the stud duck is out. He manages to ask her for the shirts, or he comes better prepared to steal them.

Problem with asking for the shirts: it would seem rather odd; or, in Ennis' mind, rather gay, to ask for Jacks shirt, let alone to explain one was actually his.

Problem with stealing the shirts: I dunno; seems a little problematic.

Please comment.

 :D

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #23 on: Apr 24, 2006, 12:43 AM »
i'm gonna need to read the story again so just give me one day before post the second part of this.

about scene in the movies it is a heartbreaking scene seen ennis holding them and trying to find in them a sense of Jack's smell can kill anyone with feelings, it was really emotional Ennis finally realize the love they have to each other and finally admits himself he loved jack. and he looks in that shirts on Jack's closet his past that he can't return. they were part of Jack's life probably that was one of the reasons he always returned to Lightning Flat and to visit his mother also. in that place there was the only thing he was able to embrace when he was not with ennis. and i can't type anymore i just saw the movie and i'm so emotional right now that i want to cry
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline TJ

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #24 on: Apr 24, 2006, 07:07 PM »
Jack's mom was using an apple-corer to remove the cores from the apples. I have used them, too. Oh, I just take the fact that since his mother "believed in the Pentecost" she would have been one of those people who meant exactly what she said, "You come again." While citified Pentecostals these days might not be that hospitable, but, in the smaller towns, rural communities, and in the country, Pentecostal people were and are usually very hospitable and when they tell a person to come again, they sincerely mean it.

I know about Pentecostals because I am one by personal experience.

While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.

I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet. When I was in grad school and I was living on campus, my bedroom , at the folks who lived in the same city, Tulsa, was never bothered by them. Oh, there might have been some dusting and vacuuming in the room but, what was in my chest of drawers and closet was not important to them. I was in my middle 30s at the time. 

(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline edgar

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #25 on: Apr 25, 2006, 12:49 AM »

While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.

I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet.


TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.

But how did Ennis steal the shirts? Just wad them up and put them in his jacket? Surely he didn't have a knapsack or something with him when he went up there? Would he look suspicious as he walked out with a lumpy jacket?

And does that fit our picture of Ennis? sneaking out with shirts under his jacket?

Offline Patriot1

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #26 on: Apr 25, 2006, 01:17 AM »
TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.

Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts?  She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?).  Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while.  She knew the shirts were there just from dusting.  But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts.  If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them.  Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed.  Ironed jeans???  But she ironed them.


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Offline NoReins

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #27 on: Apr 25, 2006, 02:17 AM »
Yeah, I'm sure that Jack's mum knew about the shirts and I really believe that's why she sent Ennis up to Jack's room. I still get the feeling that she knew, or at least suspected, exactly what Ennis was to Jack - whether Jack told her, or she worked it out for herself I'm not so sure, though. When Ennis brings the shirts back down the stairs, her suspicions/beliefs are confirmed.
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Offline TJ

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #28 on: Apr 25, 2006, 02:19 AM »

While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.

I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet.


TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.

But how did Ennis steal the shirts? Just wad them up and put them in his jacket? Surely he didn't have a knapsack or something with him when he went up there? Would he look suspicious as he walked out with a lumpy jacket?

And does that fit our picture of Ennis? sneaking out with shirts under his jacket?


Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts?  She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?).  Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while.  She knew the shirts were there just from dusting.  But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts.  If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them.  Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed.  Ironed jeans???  But she ironed them.

Oh, when I lived with my folks and my mother ironed my clothes for me, I was the one who who hung them up in the closet. I did iron my Levi's 501s jeans during my undergrad college years in the 1960s. I also used pants leg stretchers with the non-preshrunk Jeans, too; that made them easier to put back on without "pouring myself into them." (I don't even own an iron now.)

I can imagine that Jack was the one who put the clean and ironed clothes in the curtained off closet in his room.

(Oh, when Ennis was carrying the shirts in the movie, he had folded them up really small. That would not have caused much of a bulge if he had hidden them under his jacket. In fact, as loose as his jacket was in the pic below, they would never have noticed a thing.)



(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: the shirts in the closet
« Reply #29 on: Apr 25, 2006, 02:28 AM »

While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.

I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet.


TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.

But how did Ennis steal the shirts? Just wad them up and put them in his jacket? Surely he didn't have a knapsack or something with him when he went up there? Would he look suspicious as he walked out with a lumpy jacket?

And does that fit our picture of Ennis? sneaking out with shirts under his jacket?


Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts?  She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?).  Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while.  She knew the shirts were there just from dusting.  But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts.  If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them.  Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed.  Ironed jeans???  But she ironed them.

Oh, when I lived with my folks and my mother ironed my clothes for me, I was the one who who hung them up in the closet. I did iron my Levi's 501s jeans during my undergrad college years in the 1960s. I also used pants leg stretchers with the non-preshrunk Jeans, too; that made them easier to put back on without "pouring myself into them." (I don't even own an iron now.)

I can imagine that Jack was the one who put the clean and ironed clothes in the curtained off closet in his room.

(Oh, when Ennis was carrying the shirts in the movie, he had folded them up really small. That would not have caused much of a bulge if he had hidden them under his jacket. In fact, as loose as his jacket was in the pic below, they would never have noticed a thing.)






OMG look at his face he have the "Don't even try to take me this from me" when he looks at Old Twist!!!
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.