Author Topic: Symbols you will forever associate with BBM scenes (Read 275121 times)

ksxks · « **Reply #120 on:** Sep 14, 2006, 06:21 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 14, 2006, 02:42 PM

Quote from: welshwitch on Sep 14, 2006, 12:09 PM
It needs to be put next to the shot of the shirts in the closet, and the picture postcard of the mountain - there's a symbolism in the movement of the shirts from a closet where they were a secret, watched over by Jack's mother but without any context, to a closet where they were seen every day, by Ennis who understood their significance. In a sense their meaning has been enhanced by the move, though their impact on Ennis is at best two-edged - a reminder of the time on the mountain, but also a constant remoinder of what he's lost.

They are the first thing he sees when he opens the closet. They serve as a reminder of enduring love and as a source of rebuke.

Okay, here is a question: In that last scene, he snaps the second-to-top snap of the inside shirt, Jack's. Why was it not snapped already? Like when he brought the shirts home and put them on the hanger. You think he just hung them up and didn't snap up Jack's shirt at least? Or even snap or button his own over it, to protect "Jack" even more. Doesn't everyone, those who are relatively neat around their house, button or snap one button on a shirt that's hanging up, especially if it's going to be hanging there for a while?

I get the idea some amount of time passed between when he brought the shirts home to his trailer, and the scene we see with Junior, in which case, were the shirts unsnapped all that time? Seems he'd open that closet every day and more than once a day. Oh the things that consume me. I don't know -- I always just get to wondering, when I see that scene.

kathy

welshwitch · « **Reply #121 on:** Sep 14, 2006, 06:30 PM »

In terms of the movie, I think that was probably just something Heath did or was given to do to allow him to touch the shirts rathe than just stand there looking at them.

[In terms of tidiness, just as well you don't live here. Tjhe place is full of stuff on hangers - if buttons or any other fasteners are ever done up, it's a miracle. If stuff is hanging up I figure I'm ahead of the game.

]

ksxks · « **Reply #122 on:** Sep 14, 2006, 10:24 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Sep 14, 2006, 06:30 PM

In terms of the movie, I think that was probably just something Heath did or was given to do to allow him to touch the shirts rathe than just stand there looking at them.

[In terms of tidiness, just as well you don't live here. Tjhe place is full of stuff on hangers - if buttons or any other fasteners are ever done up, it's a miracle. If stuff is hanging up I figure I'm ahead of the game. ]

Funny -- there I go again, trying to figure something out that isn't figure-out-able.

Okay, now I looked at the story and screenplay. The story has him "a few weeks later," after visiting Jack's parents, hanging up the shirts after he had gotten the BBM postcard and brought it home. He hung up the postcard and then hung the nail and the shirts below it. In the screenplay it has Ennis snapping the top snap.

So never mind...I was just thinking out loud.

kathy

jeffjoe · « **Reply #123 on:** Sep 14, 2006, 11:35 PM »

For me the maximun symbols are Jake and Heath, when i watch a Jake or Heath movie always think in BBM

greenfrog · « **Reply #124 on:** Sep 14, 2006, 11:51 PM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on Sep 14, 2006, 11:35 PM

For me the maximun symbols are Jake and Heath, when i watch a Jake or Heath movie always think in BBM

Perfect !!!

tpe · « **Reply #125 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 07:12 AM »

Quote

Okay, here is a question: In that last scene, he snaps the second-to-top snap of the inside shirt, Jack's. Why was it not snapped already? Like when he brought the shirts home and put them on the hanger. You think he just hung them up and didn't snap up Jack's shirt at least? Or even snap or button his own over it, to protect "Jack" even more. Doesn't everyone, those who are relatively neat around their house, button or snap one button on a shirt that's hanging up, especially if it's going to be hanging there for a while?

I get the idea some amount of time passed between when he brought the shirts home to his trailer, and the scene we see with Junior, in which case, were the shirts unsnapped all that time? Seems he'd open that closet every day and more than once a day. Oh the things that consume me. I don't know -- I always just get to wondering, when I see that scene.

kathy

Yes, I thought it peculiar at first that the screenplay would give this explicit directive -- peculiar if we note that that screenplay date indicates that almost 2 years have passed since his acquiring the shirt.

The way I think about it is that Ennis probably continually did small things as a way of fondling/handling Jack's shirt. He certainly didn't frame the shirts, and he certainly did not hang them in a less accessible place. I think he put it there so that he could be in contact with Jack's shirt everyday.

I would like to think that for Ennis, the shirsts was not like some remote relic -- to be adored from afar. I suspect he craved contact with the shirt everyday -- doing small things to Jack's shirt like snapping it on and off, smoothing creases, or straightening them out.

I suspect that Jack did the same whenever he stayed with his parents.

The shirts are a sort of connection.

tpe · « **Reply #126 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 07:19 AM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on Sep 14, 2006, 11:35 PM

For me the maximun symbols are Jake and Heath, when i watch a Jake or Heath movie always think in BBM

You are right. For me, everything gets intermingled. But it is true: when I think of BBM, I think of them.

Rosie · « **Reply #127 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 07:33 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 15, 2006, 07:12 AM

Quote
Okay, here is a question: In that last scene, he snaps the second-to-top snap of the inside shirt, Jack's. Why was it not snapped already? Like when he brought the shirts home and put them on the hanger. You think he just hung them up and didn't snap up Jack's shirt at least? Or even snap or button his own over it, to protect "Jack" even more. Doesn't everyone, those who are relatively neat around their house, button or snap one button on a shirt that's hanging up, especially if it's going to be hanging there for a while?

I get the idea some amount of time passed between when he brought the shirts home to his trailer, and the scene we see with Junior, in which case, were the shirts unsnapped all that time? Seems he'd open that closet every day and more than once a day. Oh the things that consume me. I don't know -- I always just get to wondering, when I see that scene.

kathy

Yes, I thought it peculiar at first that the screenplay would give this explicit directive -- peculiar if we note that that screenplay date indicates that almost 2 years have passed since his acquiring the shirt.

The way I think about it is that Ennis probably continually did small things as a way of fondling/handling Jack's shirt. He certainly didn't frame the shirts, and he certainly did not hang them in a less accessible place. I think he put it there so that he could be in contact with Jack's shirt everyday.

I would like to think that for Ennis, the shirsts was not like some remote relic -- to be adored from afar. I suspect he craved contact with the shirt everyday -- doing small things to Jack's shirt like snapping it on and off, smoothing creases, or straightening them out.

I suspect that Jack did the same whenever he stayed with his parents.

The shirts are a sort of connection.

I thought this too.. 100%

Rosie · « **Reply #128 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 07:40 AM »

I know this is not a symbol as such, but of all the things that bring BBM to my mind, (and there are a lot) the overwhelming one for me is beautiful green countryside. It doesn't have to be a mountain. Just looking out the window into my garden, at the tress and grass brings them to mind. A stream or forest scene (and of course any mountain scene especially snow capped) on TV. Walking in the forest, especially if the air is crisp. Anything to do with beautiful green scenery.

tpe · « **Reply #129 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 07:49 AM »

Quote from: Rosie on Sep 15, 2006, 07:40 AM

I know this is not a symbol as such, but of all the things that bring BBM to my mind, (and there are a lot) the overwhelming one for me is beautiful green countryside. It doesn't have to be a mountain. Just looking out the window into my garden, at the tress and grass brings them to mind. A stream or forest scene (and of course any mountain scene especially snow capped) on TV. Walking in the forest, especially if the air is crisp. Anything to do with beautiful green scenery.

Rosie , a wonderful point.

For me, it is the color GREEN. The greenery of Brokeback and the other mountains was meant to be a symbol, IMO.

NoReins · « **Reply #130 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 10:59 AM »

Totally agree about the shirts. Jack probably only went to visit his parents after being with Ennis in the mountains and at those times he was likely upset because he knew it was going to be months before he saw Ennis again. I wouldn't be surprised if he went straight to his closet on each visit and cried into the shirts. For him, they would always be a symbol of what he wanted most in the world and couldn't have - Ennis right next to him.

After Jack's death, I really do believe that Ennis would have done the same, holding the shirts close just like he wished he could still be holding Jack. For him, they were a symbol of everything he'd lost...but also of everything he'd loved in life, even if he'd never been able to admit it.

I guess that means that I see the shirts as the ultimate symbol of Brokeback Mountain - and maybe even the ultimate symbol of love.

Anyone got a hankie? :\'( :\'( :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #131 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 11:21 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on Sep 15, 2006, 10:59 AM

Totally agree about the shirts. Jack probably only went to visit his parents after being with Ennis in the mountains and at those times he was likely upset because he knew it was going to be months before he saw Ennis again. I wouldn't be surprised if he went straight to his closet on each visit and cried into the shirts. For him, they would always be a symbol of what he wanted most in the world and couldn't have - Ennis right next to him.

After Jack's death, I really do believe that Ennis would have done the same, holding the shirts close just like he wished he could still be holding Jack. For him, they were a symbol of everything he'd lost...but also of everything he'd loved in life, even if he'd never been able to admit it.

I guess that means that I see the shirts as the ultimate symbol of Brokeback Mountain - and maybe even the ultimate symbol of love.

Anyone got a hankie? :\'( :\'( :\'(

Very beautiful, NoReins. There are no words that can match the feeling.

jesseanne21 · « **Reply #132 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 04:40 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 15, 2006, 11:21 AM

Quote from: NoReins on Sep 15, 2006, 10:59 AM
Totally agree about the shirts. Jack probably only went to visit his parents after being with Ennis in the mountains and at those times he was likely upset because he knew it was going to be months before he saw Ennis again. I wouldn't be surprised if he went straight to his closet on each visit and cried into the shirts. For him, they would always be a symbol of what he wanted most in the world and couldn't have - Ennis right next to him.

After Jack's death, I really do believe that Ennis would have done the same, holding the shirts close just like he wished he could still be holding Jack. For him, they were a symbol of everything he'd lost...but also of everything he'd loved in life, even if he'd never been able to admit it.

I guess that means that I see the shirts as the ultimate symbol of Brokeback Mountain - and maybe even the ultimate symbol of love.

Anyone got a hankie? :\'( :\'( :\'(

Very beautiful, NoReins. There are no words that can match the feeling.

I agree with you both...I think the two shirts are the ultimate symbol of Brokeback Mountain...that image (and the feeling it invokes) will live with me forever. Just beautiful

ksxks · « **Reply #133 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 05:35 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 15, 2006, 07:12 AM

Yes, I thought it peculiar at first that the screenplay would give this explicit directive -- peculiar if we note that that screenplay date indicates that almost 2 years have passed since his acquiring the shirt.

The way I think about it is that Ennis probably continually did small things as a way of fondling/handling Jack's shirt. He certainly didn't frame the shirts, and he certainly did not hang them in a less accessible place. I think he put it there so that he could be in contact with Jack's shirt everyday.

I would like to think that for Ennis, the shirsts was not like some remote relic -- to be adored from afar. I suspect he craved contact with the shirt everyday -- doing small things to Jack's shirt like snapping it on and off, smoothing creases, or straightening them out.

I suspect that Jack did the same whenever he stayed with his parents.

The shirts are a sort of connection.

Perfect. That's a beautiful way to look at it. Every day he would look at and touch the shirts, buttoning, unbuttoning, maybe straightening the inside one in the outside one... He could have even put them on, could have even worn Jack's shirt. Thanks.

kathy

tpe · « **Reply #134 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 05:49 PM »

Quote from: ksxks on Sep 15, 2006, 05:35 PM

Perfect. That's a beautiful way to look at it. Every day he would look at and touch the shirts, buttoning, unbuttoning, maybe straightening the inside one in the outside one... He could have even put them on, could have even worn Jack's shirt. Thanks.

kathy

I am a bit morbidly inclined tonight, and your comment brings to mind Poe's lines:

And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
Of my darling—my darling—my life and my bride,
In her sepulchre there by the sea,
In her tomb by the sounding sea.

greenfrog · « **Reply #135 on:** Sep 16, 2006, 07:05 PM »

Quote from: ksxks on Sep 15, 2006, 05:35 PM

Quote from: tpe on Sep 15, 2006, 07:12 AM
Yes, I thought it peculiar at first that the screenplay would give this explicit directive -- peculiar if we note that that screenplay date indicates that almost 2 years have passed since his acquiring the shirt.

The way I think about it is that Ennis probably continually did small things as a way of fondling/handling Jack's shirt. He certainly didn't frame the shirts, and he certainly did not hang them in a less accessible place. I think he put it there so that he could be in contact with Jack's shirt everyday.

I would like to think that for Ennis, the shirsts was not like some remote relic -- to be adored from afar. I suspect he craved contact with the shirt everyday -- doing small things to Jack's shirt like snapping it on and off, smoothing creases, or straightening them out.

I suspect that Jack did the same whenever he stayed with his parents.

The shirts are a sort of connection.

Perfect. That's a beautiful way to look at it. Every day he would look at and touch the shirts, buttoning, unbuttoning, maybe straightening the inside one in the outside one... He could have even put them on, could have even worn Jack's shirt. Thanks.

kathy

Beautiful posts

As long as Ennis had the shirts, he had part of Jack with him. :\'(

edgar · « **Reply #136 on:** Sep 17, 2006, 12:22 AM »

Hi, all. Haven't posted in a while. Good to be back. This will be a personal anecdote, but it fits in with symbols which remind one of the movie, and all the discussion about the shirts.

Part of the time I was gone, I was camping/hiking (no fishing) in the mountains with a dear friend. We shared some supplies; we've been camping many times and used to be roommates. About the same size.

I hung one of my shirts over one of his to save room in the truck. At the end of the week, we were going through all the stuff to get my stuff back in my car. I grabbed my shirt, which was similar to one of his (though he hadn't brought his similar one). He says, "Hey, are you stealing my shirt?"
"No, I'm not stealing your shirt," I said. I smiled a sort of sad smile.

He wouldn't have seen the movie.

Maybe I will steal one of his shirts next time.

greenfrog · « **Reply #137 on:** Sep 17, 2006, 12:31 AM »

Great story Edgar

This has given me an idea.

I think we should have our own "Steal your lover's shirt (and see if you can get away with it) Day"!

Rosie · « **Reply #138 on:** Sep 17, 2006, 08:36 AM »

Thanks for sharing that story with us Edgar, it was very nice. It must have been a very emotive moment for you, bringing to mind the saddest scene of the movie. I love your sentence about smiling a sad smile...If like greenfrog says, you can get away with it, you steal one next time!

Love from Rosie
xx

ksxks · « **Reply #139 on:** Sep 17, 2006, 08:54 PM »

Quote from: edgar on Sep 17, 2006, 12:22 AM

Hi, all. Haven't posted in a while. Good to be back. This will be a personal anecdote, but it fits in with symbols which remind one of the movie, and all the discussion about the shirts.

Part of the time I was gone, I was camping/hiking (no fishing) in the mountains with a dear friend. We shared some supplies; we've been camping many times and used to be roommates. About the same size.

I hung one of my shirts over one of his to save room in the truck. At the end of the week, we were going through all the stuff to get my stuff back in my car. I grabbed my shirt, which was similar to one of his (though he hadn't brought his similar one). He says, "Hey, are you stealing my shirt?"
"No, I'm not stealing your shirt," I said. I smiled a sort of sad smile.

He wouldn't have seen the movie.

Maybe I will steal one of his shirts next time.

Oh, this is so sweet... And I'll never see double-hanging the same again.

So you go camping with someone who hasn't seen BBM? Shit, that's hard. What do you talk about?? Just kidding, but seriously -- it's difficult lately to spend a lot of time with someone and NOT talk BBM.

kathy

greenfrog · « **Reply #140 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 12:47 AM »

Have we mentioned the trucks and their colours?

Jack - Black (the same as his hat).

Ennis - White (the same as his hat too).

welshwitch · « **Reply #141 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 08:10 AM »

And Jack's truck is always a newer model than Ennis's - shows their respective finanacial situations, but also shows that Jack's never quite become a Texas businessman driving round in some big flashy 5.5 liter-engined car.

tpe · « **Reply #142 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 04:18 PM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 18, 2006, 12:47 AM

Have we mentioned the trucks and their colours?

Jack - Black (the same as his hat).

Ennis - White (the same as his hat too).

Yes, color symbolism seems to pervade the main characters thorughout the film.

And let's not forget Jack's red truck and apparel during the reunion scene.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #143 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 09:49 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Sep 15, 2006, 10:59 AM

Totally agree about the shirts. Jack probably only went to visit his parents after being with Ennis in the mountains and at those times he was likely upset because he knew it was going to be months before he saw Ennis again. I wouldn't be surprised if he went straight to his closet on each visit and cried into the shirts. For him, they would always be a symbol of what he wanted most in the world and couldn't have - Ennis right next to him.

After Jack's death, I really do believe that Ennis would have done the same, holding the shirts close just like he wished he could still be holding Jack. For him, they were a symbol of everything he'd lost...but also of everything he'd loved in life, even if he'd never been able to admit it.

I guess that means that I see the shirts as the ultimate symbol of Brokeback Mountain - and maybe even the ultimate symbol of love.

Anyone got a hankie? :\'( :\'( :\'(

Beautifully put. :\'( That's how I envisioned it- Jack pulling the shirts out when he was in Lightening Flat and then Ennis holding them because that is all he has left of Jack.

brokie007 · « **Reply #144 on:** Sep 21, 2006, 06:05 PM »

COWBOY HATS

each time i see a handsome man in a cowboy hat it reminds me so much of Ennis and Jack.....

tpe · « **Reply #145 on:** Sep 22, 2006, 07:00 AM »

Quote from: brokie007 on Sep 21, 2006, 06:05 PM

COWBOY HATS

each time i see a handsome man in a cowboy hat it reminds me so much of Ennis and Jack.....

Yes, whenever I see one, BBM invariably comes to mind. In any reference to a Rodeo, I see Jack Twist...

Jennis · « **Reply #146 on:** Sep 23, 2006, 02:41 PM »

Loads of things,but sad music,doesn't even have to be BBM soundtrack,just something that might come on the radio or television that will remind me of the boys.Also the Jack Twist (dozy embrace) coat will forever be imprinted on my mind :\'(

aimi15 · « **Reply #147 on:** Sep 23, 2006, 03:17 PM »

Quote from: Jennis on Sep 23, 2006, 02:41 PM

Loads of things,but sad music,doesn't even have to be BBM soundtrack,just something that might come on the radio or television that will remind me of the boys.Also the Jack Twist (dozy embrace) coat will forever be imprinted on my mind :\'(

YES - the coat...and the neckerchief thing Jack had going on too....

tpe · « **Reply #148 on:** Sep 23, 2006, 04:54 PM »

Quote from: aimi15 on Sep 23, 2006, 03:17 PM

Quote from: Jennis on Sep 23, 2006, 02:41 PM
Loads of things,but sad music,doesn't even have to be BBM soundtrack,just something that might come on the radio or television that will remind me of the boys.Also the Jack Twist (dozy embrace) coat will forever be imprinted on my mind :\'(

YES - the coat...and the neckerchief thing Jack had going on too....

My friend Robert had a good point about the opening music -- when you hear the opening chords played in the movie, if brings up the entire world...

The coat and kerchied. Anything tha resembles it, it calls to mind Jack.

Jennis · « **Reply #149 on:** Sep 23, 2006, 05:02 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 23, 2006, 04:54 PM

Quote from: aimi15 on Sep 23, 2006, 03:17 PM
Quote from: Jennis on Sep 23, 2006, 02:41 PM
Loads of things,but sad music,doesn't even have to be BBM soundtrack,just something that might come on the radio or television that will remind me of the boys.Also the Jack Twist (dozy embrace) coat will forever be imprinted on my mind :\'(

YES - the coat...and the neckerchief thing Jack had going on too....

My friend Robert had a good point about the opening music -- when you hear the opening chords played in the movie, if brings up the entire world...

The coat and kerchied. Anything tha resembles it, it calls to mind Jack.

Yes,the instrumental BBM music will always be a killer for me to listen to.
The whole film plays before your eyes.

J.x