Author Topic: Why didn't Ennis visit a Male Prostitute like Jack did? (Read 45877 times)

tpe · « **Reply #60 on:** Oct 09, 2006, 08:13 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Oct 09, 2006, 04:07 AM

I don't think Ennis would ever go seeking out another man. It took him long enough to trust Jack, and trust is essential with Ennis. But.... IF, and that's a big if , Ennis was presented with the chance to cheat discreetly like Jack did and he was positive he would'nt be found out, with maybe a couple drinks in him, maybe. But I doubt it.

Agreed. Ennis had too many issues and it would have been quite difficult for him to seek out males prostitutwes, IMO.

welshwitch · « **Reply #61 on:** Oct 09, 2006, 11:21 AM »

IMO2. Ennis isn't the sort to go cruising round "gay" areas - he's too busy not fixing it but standing it.

greenfrog · « **Reply #62 on:** Oct 09, 2006, 10:24 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Oct 09, 2006, 11:21 AM

IMO2. Ennis isn't the sort to go cruising round "gay" areas - he's too busy not fixing it but standing it.

Very true.

And Ennis doesn't really seem like he would go "cruising" for sex (regardless of gender).

tpe · « **Reply #63 on:** Oct 10, 2006, 06:51 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Oct 09, 2006, 10:24 PM

Quote from: welshwitch on Oct 09, 2006, 11:21 AM
IMO2. Ennis isn't the sort to go cruising round "gay" areas - he's too busy not fixing it but standing it.

Very true.

And Ennis doesn't really seem like he would go "cruising" for sex (regardless of gender).

Did Ennis just bear the sexual tension in Jack's absence. The words exchanged in the last meeting seem to indicate that this is so. Did he have sex at all in the years after the divorce and before the last meeting? I know the issue of his relationship with Cassie has been discussed elsewhere, but my impression is that even if he id have sexual relations with Cassie, it could not have been that frequent, given the relative shortness of their time together...

welshwitch · « **Reply #64 on:** Oct 10, 2006, 10:53 AM »

It's quite possible to want/need someone sexually, but not feel any desire for anyone else. I reckon when Jack wasn't there Ennis just got on with living his life and din'think about it. He was perhaps much less highly sexual than Jack..

tpe · « **Reply #65 on:** Oct 11, 2006, 07:24 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Oct 10, 2006, 10:53 AM

It's quite possible to want/need someone sexually, but not feel any desire for anyone else. I reckon when Jack wasn't there Ennis just got on with living his life and din'think about it. He was perhaps much less highly sexual than Jack..

I would say that this is true.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #66 on:** Oct 12, 2006, 03:31 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Oct 10, 2006, 10:53 AM

It's quite possible to want/need someone sexually, but not feel any desire for anyone else. I reckon when Jack wasn't there Ennis just got on with living his life and din'think about it. He was perhaps much less highly sexual than Jack..

This is so true. I want/need Tom Brady but I certainly don't want or need the entire New England Patriots football team.

welshwitch · « **Reply #67 on:** Oct 12, 2006, 08:36 AM »

Like I fancy Jake, but wouldn't cross the road for Heath!

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #68 on:** Oct 13, 2006, 08:37 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Oct 12, 2006, 03:31 AM

Quote from: welshwitch on Oct 10, 2006, 10:53 AM
It's quite possible to want/need someone sexually, but not feel any desire for anyone else. I reckon when Jack wasn't there Ennis just got on with living his life and din'think about it. He was perhaps much less highly sexual than Jack..

This is so true. I want/need Tom Brady but I certainly don't want or need the entire New England Patriots football team.

Humorous example, yet so true.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #69 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 08:44 PM »

Ennis may not have been as highly sexual as Jack but during those long seperations I'm sure he made use of Mrs. thumb and her four daughters while visions of Jack Twist danced in his head! While Jack was out trick or treating Ennis was rolling his own. ...Jack lovers please don't hurt me!! OK, lemme have it with both barrels. Awww just kiddin. of the two Ennis is my boo.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #70 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 11:27 PM »

Well that activity was mentioned in the short story.

JBron10544 · « **Reply #71 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 12:13 AM »

Considering their age and social position, it would be surprising to me for Ennis to engage a hustler. Ennis had virtually iron self control as did Jack. But Jack saw ways of getting around it that did not bother his conscience. Ennis was quite rigid and uncompromising with his perception of self control. Recall when leaving Brokeback and Jack,Ennis went over to the side in the shadows and had a compulsive case of the dry heaves. He almost could not stand it but he did and regained his composure when another cowboy approached him probably out of concern that Ennis was seriously ill. When Ennis lashed out violently and with much profanity, the stranger cowboy backed off. In the short story Ennis makes it clear it was a mistake to let Jack just leave and that Ennis should have held on to Jack. These two characters reflect a system of values that is long lost to most Americans of this age and time. I rather doubt it can be recovered even though many of our conservative and evangelical friends would like for it to be re-imposed by a church/state estsblishment. Not bloody likely, I hope.

BBBOY · « **Reply #72 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 12:20 AM »

Well said JBron. The times have changed and the Ennis of then could not be the Ennis of now I hope, but maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part. $:-\\$

tpe · « **Reply #73 on:** Nov 13, 2006, 09:09 AM »

Perhaps why this story moves many is because there are still too many Ennises and too many Jacks.

But, yes, I think this type of gratification would not have appealed to Ennis.

JBron10544 · « **Reply #74 on:** Nov 14, 2006, 08:33 PM »

I appreciate your positive posts to my feeble musings. I tend to think there are a great many Ennis's and Jack's still around in the U.S.A. They like me are ageing and the numbers are decreasing. My youngest son behaves like a 17th Century Puritan at times and so do I. But th difference is I know it and when he exhibits that sort of behavior, I call it to his attention. Of all the characteristics that identify an American, this Puritanism sticksout as distinctive. It is not a pretty sight but it is real and both Ennis and Jack had it.

Brokeback_1 · « **Reply #75 on:** Nov 14, 2006, 10:20 PM »

I think it's simple. He wasn't the sort to buy sex. He was also a one man man, wouldn't even consider going with anyone but Jack. He hated himself not for loving, but for having a sexual romantic love with a man in the first place---can you see such a guy going to a whore?? I can't.

Brokeback_1 · « **Reply #76 on:** Nov 14, 2006, 10:24 PM »

Also, in reply to some of the posts above, in 2006 going to a male ho indicates, IMO, that the person doing so simply doesn't want a relationship or is too lazy to find a one night stand. There is NO shortage of THAT anywhere. No reason to do so at all, except for being gross. IMO

welshwitch · « **Reply #77 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 01:38 AM »

There's also the fact that sex with a prostiute is bought and therefore doesn't imply any sort of commitment, so it's not a threat to the emotions invested in existing relationships either, unless you regard the physical as the most vitally important aspect of any relationship.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #78 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 05:21 AM »

I feel it;s a matter self worthiness on one hand and wiilpower on the other. Despite his upbringing I believe Ennis still had some selfworth. With Jack and Ennis it was much more than sex.

tpe · « **Reply #79 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 08:23 AM »

Quote from: JBron10544 on Nov 14, 2006, 08:33 PM

I appreciate your positive posts to my feeble musings. I tend to think there are a great many Ennis's and Jack's still around in the U.S.A. They like me are ageing and the numbers are decreasing. My youngest son behaves like a 17th Century Puritan at times and so do I. But th difference is I know it and when he exhibits that sort of behavior, I call it to his attention. Of all the characteristics that identify an American, this Puritanism sticksout as distinctive. It is not a pretty sight but it is real and both Ennis and Jack had it.

I do agree. The puritanical streak in this country is still very pronounced in many areas.

tpe · « **Reply #80 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 08:26 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Nov 15, 2006, 01:38 AM

There's also the fact that sex with a prostiute is bought and therefore doesn't imply any sort of commitment, so it's not a threat to the emotions invested in existing relationships either, unless you regard the physical as the most vitally important aspect of any relationship.

Yes. Although in Ennis's mind, he was already commited to Jack (as far as male partners were concerned, at least). I am sure Ennis considered sex with prostitutes as a form of cheating.

tpe · « **Reply #81 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 08:30 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Nov 15, 2006, 05:21 AM

I feel it;s a matter self worthiness on one hand and wiilpower on the other. Despite his upbringing I believe Ennis still had some selfworth. With Jack and Ennis it was much more than sex.

I do think Ennis had his own sense of dignity. And I do think that getting prostitutes conflicted with this. Even Jack probably shared this, but was driven to desperation.

welshwitch · « **Reply #82 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 12:22 PM »

Jack is much more reactive, to misuse a chemical term, than Ennis. He went off to Mexico in despair as an instant reaction to Ennis's rejection - it's written on his face as he walks down that alley.

Perhaps he wouldn;t have done it in other circumstances.

tpe · « **Reply #83 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 12:24 PM »

There was also a look of resolve in his face. It was as if he was steeling himself for what was to come...

aintfoolin · « **Reply #84 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 03:52 PM »

Yep, and anger and desperation over something he did'nt really want to do, but felt forced to do after being rejected.
He would've much preferred to be with Ennis.

tpe · « **Reply #85 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 06:16 PM »

I believe that people sometimes do things in order to forget. I do think Jack at this point wanted to forget.

With Ennis, I am sure it was not a question of having any need for gratification with other men. It was solely with Jack that he found contentment.

rick65 · « **Reply #86 on:** Nov 15, 2006, 09:00 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 15, 2006, 06:16 PM

I believe that people sometimes do things in order to forget. I do think Jack at this point wanted to forget.

With Ennis, I am sure it was not a question of having any need for gratification with other men. It was solely with Jack that he found contentment.

I agree, for the most part. Jack had been denied once again an entry to life with Ennis. He was seeking a way to "forget" (like you said tpe), but he never found it through meaningless sex with a stranger. There wasn't any way around it. Jack wanted and needed Ennis for satisfaction, which Jack realized. I'm sure this led years later to this revelation being so affirmative, "I wish I knew how to quit you."
Ennis had other demons in his closet, not surrounding sex per se, but tripping him up when he thought of being with the only man he wanted to love.

tpe · « **Reply #87 on:** Nov 16, 2006, 08:25 AM »

Quote from: rick65 on Nov 15, 2006, 09:00 PM

Ennis had other demons in his closet, not surrounding sex per se, but tripping him up when he thought of being with the only man he wanted to love.

This is so true. Ennis had a lot of things to contend with internally -- things that went much deeper than anthing associated with simple sexual gratification.

Brokeback_1 · « **Reply #88 on:** Nov 19, 2006, 03:31 AM »

I just don't equate not using male prostitutes as a form of puritanism. If one wanted sex, there is no shortage of gay sex. You can get it in an urban area simply by walking out the door. If Ennis had wanted gay sex in 1963 even in Wyoming he could have found it.
I assume that if one is going to a male hustler, all one wants is sex. Certainly no relationship possibilities there! Ennis wanted gay sex with JACK, not gay sex for the sake of gay sex.

Besides, he hated himself not for loving jack, but for having a SEXUAL LOVE with jack, big difference there. There was no possibility for such a man to pay for sex. If he had i cannot see any emotional benefit whatsoever. i see the opposite.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #89 on:** Nov 19, 2006, 11:20 AM »

Yep, I totally agree, If Ennis had cheated with a prostitute he'd be so racked with guilt about it that the next time he saw Jack, He'd be a nervous "guilty wreck to the point of giving himself away. Jack would know something was up and question his behavior. Ennis's worst nightmare. Besides Ennis was ok with the status quo.