Author Topic: Ennis' Fierce and Possessive Love for Jack - Spoilers (Read 77379 times)

tpe · « **on:** Jan 22, 2006, 10:45 AM »

It is obvious that Jack (as played by played by Gyllenhaal) loved Ennis very much. It is not always obvious that Ennis loved Jack as deeply, and, perhaps, more faithfully.

I watched this movie again yesterday and I realized that that there are quite a number of scenes where Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack is so apparent. Can we name and discuss such instances and examples?

To start, I would want to cite one example that I completely missed until yesterday's viewing.

The scene is when Ennis comes back to Alma after spending a night with Jack at the Motel Siesta. After announcing to her that he and Jack are spending a few days out 'fishing', Ennis starts to pack and the following scene unfolds. Let me paraphrase the exchange between Ennis and Alma:

Alma: You know, your friend could come up and have coffee...

Ennis: He's from Texas...

Alma: Texans don't drink coffee?

[Ennis proceeds to ignore Alma...]

When Ennis exits the house, Alma looks out the window and overhears the following exchange between Jack and Ennis (my paraphrase):

Jack: I'm starving...You want to get a bite to eat?....

Ennis: Yup...

Ennis was so possessive of Jack that he refused to have Jack invited up to the house to get something to eat, even though he most probably knew that Jack had not had anything to eat and was hungry!!!!! Why did he refuse? Because he did not want to share Jack with anybody -- EVEN WITH HIS WIFE!

This is an INTENSE and POSSESSIVE love!

*Froggy* · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 10:51 AM »

When I saw the movie the first time, I just thought that Ennis could not wait to get Jack all to himself.

I'm not a saint (never pretended to be) but had once my lover and my bf in the same room, and I could not wait to get away!

with either one of them!

tpe · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 10:54 AM »

Quote from: frog123 on Jan 22, 2006, 10:51 AM

When I saw the movie the first time, I just thought that Ennis could not wait to get Jack all to himself.

I'm not a saint (never pretended to be) but had once my lover and my bf in the same room, and I could not wait to get away! with either one of them!

Dear Froggy. You love playing with fire!

*Froggy* · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 10:54 AM »

:-\ ....... me? never!

jimnick · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 11:05 AM »

Hmmmm

*Froggy* · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 11:06 AM »

*blushing...but not ashamed*

Let's go back to the original topic shall we?

jimnick · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 11:16 AM »

Quote from: frog123 on Jan 22, 2006, 11:06 AM

*blushing...but not ashamed*

Let's go back to the original topic shall we?

Good udea (an idea that U have)!

Jim

Kindred · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 11:17 AM »

I did not interpret the breakfast scene as one of Ennis trying to have Jack all to himself. To be honest, I thought it reflected more about Ennis' fear of being seen with Jack. There are very few times in the movie that we see the two of them together with other people. The opening sequence in the trailer and then at the bar, but I don't think those count. Then the breakfast scene you describe, and lastly when Jack drives to Ennis' place when he has the girls for the weekend. (Did I miss any?) In these last two scenes, Ennis seems to be very uncomfortable and I took that as being afraid to be with Jack in public for fear of being found out.

The only example of Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack I could recall was the final exchange between the two men. When Mexico is brought up, Ennis is deeply hurt at the prospect of Jack being unfaithful with another man and lashes out in anger.

jimnick · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 11:23 AM »

Quote from: Kindred on Jan 22, 2006, 11:17 AM

I did not interpret the breakfast scene as one of Ennis trying to have Jack all to himself. To be honest, I thought it reflected more about Ennis' fear of being seen with Jack. There are very few times in the movie that we see the two of them together with other people. The opening sequence in the trailer and then at the bar, but I don't think those count. Then the breakfast scene you describe, and lastly when Jack drives to Ennis' place when he has the girls for the weekend. (Did I miss any?) In these last two scenes, Ennis seems to be very uncomfortable and I took that as being afraid to be with Jack in public for fear of being found out.

The only example of Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack I could recall was the final exchange between the two men. When Mexico is brought up, Ennis is deeply hurt at the prospect of Jack being unfaithful with another man and lashes out in anger.

I would think Ennis would have a right to be hurt, finding out about infidelity in a two decade relationship... I don't think he's angry as much as he is hurt, that's how he registers pain.

Jim

*Froggy* · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 11:26 AM »

Quote from: jimnick on Jan 22, 2006, 11:23 AM

I would think Ennis would have a right to be hurt, finding out about infidelity in a two decade relationship... I don't think he's angry as much as he is hurt, that's how he registers pain.

yep!

tpe · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 01:53 PM »

Quote from: Kindred on Jan 22, 2006, 11:17 AM

I did not interpret the breakfast scene as one of Ennis trying to have Jack all to himself. To be honest, I thought it reflected more about Ennis' fear of being seen with Jack. There are very few times in the movie that we see the two of them together with other people. The opening sequence in the trailer and then at the bar, but I don't think those count. Then the breakfast scene you describe, and lastly when Jack drives to Ennis' place when he has the girls for the weekend. (Did I miss any?) In these last two scenes, Ennis seems to be very uncomfortable and I took that as being afraid to be with Jack in public for fear of being found out.

The only example of Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack I could recall was the final exchange between the two men. When Mexico is brought up, Ennis is deeply hurt at the prospect of Jack being unfaithful with another man and lashes out in anger.

Thanks Kindred for your thoughts on the matter. Ennis was certainly afraid of being seen as too 'interested' in his friend, but he could also exhibit astonishing recklessness.

An example of such recklessness is, of course, the passionate kissing scene after the 4-year hiatus. Although Ennis did look around to make sure that nobody was watching, it was nonetheless quite reckless (but certainly not out of character) of him to instigate that passionate kiss. Ledger and Gyllenhaal follow the screenplay to the letter here. If we recall, Ennis is the one who instigates the kiss by pushing Jack violently against the wall and kissing him as if there were no tomorrow. And of course, Jack reciprocates in kind...

At least, they did not follow the original story to the letter, which indicates that the kiss was so violent that Jack's teeth 'draws blood'.

brian2006 · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 09, 2006, 03:54 AM »

Quote from: Kindred on Jan 22, 2006, 11:17 AM

I did not interpret the breakfast scene as one of Ennis trying to have Jack all to himself. To be honest, I thought it reflected more about Ennis' fear of being seen with Jack. There are very few times in the movie that we see the two of them together with other people. The opening sequence in the trailer and then at the bar, but I don't think those count. Then the breakfast scene you describe, and lastly when Jack drives to Ennis' place when he has the girls for the weekend. (Did I miss any?) In these last two scenes, Ennis seems to be very uncomfortable and I took that as being afraid to be with Jack in public for fear of being found out.

The only example of Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack I could recall was the final exchange between the two men. When Mexico is brought up, Ennis is deeply hurt at the prospect of Jack being unfaithful with another man and lashes out in anger.

Agreed!

Ennis alwayz feel uncomfortable when he and Jack with other ppl, he's too care bout what the ppl think bout their relationship...

Ennis was so in love with Jack but couldn't with him in public, that's why he looks so stressed up everytime!

rikcub · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 09, 2006, 09:23 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jan 22, 2006, 10:45 AM

It is obvious that Jack (as played by played by Gyllenhaal) loved Ennis very much. It is not always obvious that Ennis loved Jack as deeply, and, perhaps, more faithfully.

I watched this movie again yesterday and I realized that that there are quite a number of scenes where Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack is so apparent. Can we name and discuss such instances and examples?

To start, I would want to cite one example that I completely missed until yesterday's viewing.

The scene is when Ennis comes back to Alma after spending a night with Jack at the Motel Siesta. After announcing to her that he and Jack are spending a few days out 'fishing', Ennis starts to pack and the following scene unfolds. Let me paraphrase the exchange between Ennis and Alma:

Alma: You know, your friend could come up and have coffee...

Ennis: He's from Texas...

Alma: Texans don't drink coffee?

[Ennis proceeds to ignore Alma...]

When Ennis exits the house, Alma looks out the window and overhears the following exchange between Jack and Ennis (my paraphrase):

Jack: I'm starving...You want to get a bite to eat?....

Ennis: Yup...

Ennis was so possessive of Jack that he refused to have Jack invited up to the house to get something to eat, even though he most probably knew that Jack had not had anything to eat and was hungry!!!!! Why did he refuse? Because he did not want to share Jack with anybody -- EVEN WITH HIS WIFE!

This is an INTENSE and POSSESSIVE love!

Actually the contrast of two scenes makes this apparent to me...on the initial fishing trip Jack says "You and Alma that's a life?" Ennis quietly replies "You hush about Alma this ain't her fault". Compare that to the kitchen scene from hell...."Jack Twist..Jack Nasty". Ennis absolutely loses it when Alma dares to insult Jack. I realize that part of this may have been shame on his part but I really do believe he was being protective of what he and Jack shared.

n061857 · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 08:10 PM »

rikcub,
This what bothers me so much about this scene. Ennis is now blaming Alma, "Once burned," which I find totally out of character. It is really my imoression that his anger here is more directed at the discovery of his homosexuality than at the slam to Jack. At this point in time his actions were more governed by his himophobia than by his love of Jack.

matsuki33 · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 08:21 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jan 22, 2006, 01:53 PM

[

At least, they did not follow the original story to the letter, which indicates that the kiss was so violent that Jack's teeth 'draws blood'.

well from what we saw they said that that Heath ledger broke Jake gyllenhaal nose on that scene

n061857 · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 10:20 PM »

I hadn't heard that?

shieldmaid · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 10:28 PM »

Quote from: matsuki33 on Mar 25, 2006, 08:21 PM

Quote from: tpe on Jan 22, 2006, 01:53 PM
[

At least, they did not follow the original story to the letter, which indicates that the kiss was so violent that Jack's teeth 'draws blood'.

well from what we saw they said that that Heath ledger broke Jake gyllenhaal nose on that scene

I read that he almost broke Jake's nose because they were kissing so violently--in an interview with Ang Lee, I think. But, to get back to topic, I think that's great proof of Ennis's possessive love. We certainly don't ever see him going after Alma with such passion, even though he sees his physical contact with Jack as a big personal risk. I wasn't sure if he knew Alma saw them in the movie, but in the story it's clear he knows Alma saw them--but he doesn't care too much. So, in other words, he allows his wife to see his love not just for another person, but a man. He can't help expressing this love immediately, even if it means letting his wife, the other person in the world who knows him very well, see another side of him.

n061857 · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 10:47 PM »

Thanks, Shieldmaid. Even if Ennis had ever kissed Alma like that, which he did not, it would not be as telling because it would not have gone against his fears, beliefs, etc.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 08:41 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jan 22, 2006, 10:45 AM

It is obvious that Jack (as played by played by Gyllenhaal) loved Ennis very much. It is not always obvious that Ennis loved Jack as deeply, and, perhaps, more faithfully.

I watched this movie again yesterday and I realized that that there are quite a number of scenes where Ennis' fierce and possessive love for Jack is so apparent.

Getting the thread back on topic...The scene you refer to tpe doesn't show his love for Jack I don't think. When Jack was in the house and the two boys stood next to each other they were trembling so bad and Ennis's chest was heaving so bad that I am sure Ennis didn't want Alma to see that a second time. Maybe she missed it the first time. Also, Ennis just wanted to get out of there and to be with Jack.

No, I didn't see that what Ennis did was showing "fierce and possessive love for Jack"...just fear that Alma would see their reaction to each other.

I am still waiting for someone to point out scenes that do display Ennis was in love with Jack. I am not talking about loving Jack, there are plenty of those. I mean in love with Jack.

shieldmaid · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 08:58 PM »

[Getting the thread back on topic...The scene you refer to tpe doesn't show his love for Jack I don't think. When Jack was in the house and the two boys stood next to each other they were trembling so bad and Ennis's chest was heaving so bad that I am sure Ennis didn't want Alma to see that a second time. Maybe she missed it the first time. Also, Ennis just wanted to get out of there and to be with Jack.

No, I didn't see that what Ennis did was showing "fierce and possessive love for Jack"...just fear that Alma would see their reaction to each other.

I am still waiting for someone to point out scenes that do display Ennis was in love with Jack. I am not talking about loving Jack, there are plenty of those. I mean in love with Jack.

Quote

Do you mean something like--Ennis looking up at the stars and sending up a prayer of thanks? Ennis ordering soup instead of beans? Ennis taking their shirts out of Jack's room and hanging them in his trailer? For me, these are all ways in which Ennis shows he is in love with Jack--not just loving him in the moment or in lust.

peace--

n061857 · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:29 PM »

To mean Ennis's two emotional meltdowns, when he parts from Jack and when he declares that it is because of Jack that he has become a hoolow shell of a man, demonstrate that he was in love with Jack.

The only time I see him demoinstrating a possessive love is when he gets jealous about Jacks romps in Mexico.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 11:56 PM »

Quote from: shieldmaid on Mar 27, 2006, 08:58 PM

Do you mean something like--Ennis looking up at the stars and sending up a prayer of thanks? Ennis ordering soup instead of beans? Ennis taking their shirts out of Jack's room and hanging them in his trailer? For me, these are all ways in which Ennis shows he is in love with Jack--not just loving him in the moment or in lust.

peace--

You mean in love like knowing your lover just drove 14 hours, is happy as a clam and you send him home after just 1 minute and 38 seconds? You mean like when Jack told Ennis that he missed him so much he could hardly stand it and Ennis says NOTHING but looks into the fire. You mean by Ennis not being able to tell Jack he was looking forward to their reunion as much as Jack was when they were in the motel? Like Ennis being to homophobic to give Jack a word now and again about how much he loves being with him and how much he means to him but not so homophobic when it comes to kissing him and have sex with him because that satisfies Ennis's cravings?

There is no doubt that Ennis loved Jack. Jack was his best friend...his ONLY friend...and the sex was good too. But until I see evidence by things he did or said, he never understood how much Jack was truly in love with him until Ennis found the shirts. And then, AFTER he found the shirts and understood how much Jack not only loved him but was in love with him, the first question he asks Alma Jr. is, "This Kurt fella...does he love you?" That was the only important thing..does he love you....then love him back as much as he loves you.

peace to you also

tpe · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 07:48 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Mar 27, 2006, 08:41 PM

Getting the thread back on topic...The scene you refer to tpe doesn't show his love for Jack I don't think. When Jack was in the house and the two boys stood next to each other they were trembling so bad and Ennis's chest was heaving so bad that I am sure Ennis didn't want Alma to see that a second time. Maybe she missed it the first time. Also, Ennis just wanted to get out of there and to be with Jack.

No, I didn't see that what Ennis did was showing "fierce and possessive love for Jack"...just fear that Alma would see their reaction to each other.

I am still waiting for someone to point out scenes that do display Ennis was in love with Jack. I am not talking about loving Jack, there are plenty of those. I mean in love with Jack.

Patriot1, it is true that the boys were too uncomfortable being in the presence of Alma -- especially after the intensity of the kiss they shared that set thim into disequilibrium. But note that Ennis himself was not careful. In fact, he was quite reckless, not only in this scene, but in all succeeding scenes where he was negligent about covering his tracks during the fishing trips.

He was negligent perhaps because he really, deep down, did not care that Alma knew or what she surmised. It was enough for him that she keep it to herself and relegate it to a topic not openly discussed. The subtext of all their subsequent quarrels was precisely this feeling of betrayal. That was why the Thanksgiving scene was anathema to Ennis -- because Alma dared to bring it all out in the open.

Having said this, it seems reasonable for me to suppose that throughout his meetings with Jack before the divorce from Alma, fear was not a controling factor. Had it been fear, Ennis would have shown more discretion. But it is clear to me that it was not fear. It was certainly not fear when on the next day, he matter-of-factly told Alma that they were going on a fishing trip -- without warning or explanation. The fact that Ennis said that the ranch foreman 'owed' him a vacation is in rank contradistinction with his insisting on Alma earlier on that he had to leave the kids with her because he could not excuse himself from the job.

Ennis never shared Jack with anybody. I think this is quite clear in all the scenes. True, it was partly out of fear of the outside world. But I think this is not sufficient reason, given the longevity (20 years) of their relationship.

If it was indeed primarily fear, Ennis would have given up on Jack long before that.

dr bill · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 12:04 PM »

I see the way Ennis handled the situation with Alma in the abovementioned scene as he wanted to be "close" to Jack without any interruptions. However, he might not have wanted Alma to see the intense chemistry between him and Jack. Later when discussing Mexico: I think Ennis does not have a problem with Jack being with a woman...that was nothing new to their relationship. But when you add in another man...Ennis does not want Jack to share any similiar experience with another man. I believe that Ennis and Jack's relationship was intense at many levels (sexually, emotionally and mentally). Privacy of their relationship was important to Ennis as he mentioned several times. He also admitted that "this thing takes over us when we are together." Ennis expressed how intense and uncontrollable his passion is for Jack. I truly believe that Jack and Ennis could not get enough of each other to suffice their intense "hunger" for one another. I could feel this while watching the film. I think this is one aspect of the film that "pushed" me off the deep end. I want to share that intensity with someone and when I do...look out...because there will be flames of passion burning around about. HEHE!

tpe · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 12:18 PM »

Quote from: drbill on Mar 28, 2006, 12:04 PM

I see the way Ennis handled the situation with Alma in the abovementioned scene as he wanted to be "close" to Jack without any interruptions. However, he might not have wanted Alma to see the intense chemistry between him and Jack. Later when discussing Mexico: I think Ennis does not have a problem with Jack being with a woman...that was nothing new to their relationship. But when you add in another man...Ennis does not want Jack to share any similiar experience with another man. I believe that Ennis and Jack's relationship was intense at many levels (sexually, emotionally and mentally). Privacy of their relationship was important to Ennis as he mentioned several times. He also admitted that "this thing takes over us when we are together." Ennis expressed how intense and uncontrollable his passion is for Jack. I truly believe that Jack and Ennis could not get enough of each other to suffice their intense "hunger" for one another. I could feel this while watching the film. I think this is one aspect of the film that "pushed" me off the deep end. I want to share that intensity with someone and when I do...look out...because there will be flames of passion burning around about. HEHE!

'There's never enough time...never enough'.

drbill, I think I largely agree with what you said about Ennis not minding Jack being with a woman. But sometimes I do wonder about this. In the scene about the ranch foreman's wife, Ennis accepts this with a joke -- but you can detect a mournful look on his face after this. And Jack follows this up with the words 'Truth is...sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it'. This was Jack's off-hand way of telling Ennis that he was what he really needed -- not a ranch foreman's wife (or the ranch foreman himself).

I think Ennis (and Jack) accepted that for them to survive (not being objects of suspicion), they had to be visibly attached to women. I think Jack showed genuine concern for Ennis when he asked him about why he hasn't found a woman -- but I do not doubt that there is also a tinge of jealousy here and wanting to test where the other was as far as the relationship was concerned.

jackie62 · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 02:41 PM »

couple of quick ideas about whether we see Ennis in love with Jack.

1- The camp fire hug --- where his connection with Jack takes him back to a deep childhood time of love and warmth --- deep connection. Only with those we love deepest, is there such a link. It goes way beyond sex /friendship.

2 - While he can't respond the way I'd hope so many times with Jack ---I personally found the looks on his face when facing their uncertain future spoke volumes--- in the motel when he says " i doubt theres much we can do " ; and when,by the river, he says "if you can't fix it you got to stand it". These were of such profound sadness that i couldn't doubt he's in love. When Jack touches his cheek --- the tears are so close.

3 - The second tent scene --- the way he gives himself to Jack --- trust and fear --- totally alien to what he's ever known . The way he touches Jack --- like he was so precious. Ennis lets Jack take the lead --- not a easy thing for him at all. The sense of their intimacy we all bear witness to seems to me to be love. Their hunger for each other is for more than sex.

These are examples of Ennis's emotions on show not like in the more explosive scenes --- but I think they reflect the depth of the love that drove the possessiveness and the ferocity. The ferocity of the love in the reunion kiss blows you away.

aimi15 · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 03:16 PM »

Quote from: jackie62 on Mar 28, 2006, 02:41 PM

couple of quick ideas about whether we see Ennis in love with Jack.

1- The camp fire hug --- where his connection with Jack takes him back to a deep childhood time of love and warmth --- deep connection. Only with those we love deepest, is there such a link. It goes way beyond sex /friendship.

2 - While he can't respond the way I'd hope so many times with Jack ---I personally found the looks on his face when facing their uncertain future spoke volumes--- in the motel when he says " i doubt theres much we can do " ; and when,by the river, he says "if you can't fix it you got to stand it". These were of such profound sadness that i couldn't doubt he's in love. When Jack touches his cheek --- the tears are so close.

3 - The second tent scene --- the way he gives himself to Jack --- trust and fear --- totally alien to what he's ever known . The way he touches Jack --- like he was so precious. Ennis lets Jack take the lead --- not a easy thing for him at all. The sense of their intimacy we all bear witness to seems to me to be love. Their hunger for each other is for more than sex.

These are examples of Ennis's emotions on show not like in the more explosive scenes --- but I think they reflect the depth of the love that drove the possessiveness and the ferocity. The ferocity of the love in the reunion kiss blows you away.

jackie62 - what a beautiful post. I totally agree with you about the second tent scene. Ennis is his 'own man', very much brought up with the idea of what the role of a man should represent, and that he should take the lead in situations, be a dominant force i guess. To see him SO trusting of Jack and to let him take the lead in their lovemaking is such a striking indicator of the depth of feeling he already has for Jack. Simply, THE most romantic and compelling love scene i have ever seen.

tpe · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 03:21 PM »

Quote from: aimi15 on Mar 28, 2006, 03:16 PM

Quote from: jackie62 on Mar 28, 2006, 02:41 PM
couple of quick ideas about whether we see Ennis in love with Jack.

1- The camp fire hug --- where his connection with Jack takes him back to a deep childhood time of love and warmth --- deep connection. Only with those we love deepest, is there such a link. It goes way beyond sex /friendship.

2 - While he can't respond the way I'd hope so many times with Jack ---I personally found the looks on his face when facing their uncertain future spoke volumes--- in the motel when he says " i doubt theres much we can do " ; and when,by the river, he says "if you can't fix it you got to stand it". These were of such profound sadness that i couldn't doubt he's in love. When Jack touches his cheek --- the tears are so close.

3 - The second tent scene --- the way he gives himself to Jack --- trust and fear --- totally alien to what he's ever known . The way he touches Jack --- like he was so precious. Ennis lets Jack take the lead --- not a easy thing for him at all. The sense of their intimacy we all bear witness to seems to me to be love. Their hunger for each other is for more than sex.

These are examples of Ennis's emotions on show not like in the more explosive scenes --- but I think they reflect the depth of the love that drove the possessiveness and the ferocity. The ferocity of the love in the reunion kiss blows you away.
jackie62 - what a beautiful post. I totally agree with you about the second tent scene. Ennis is his 'own man', very much brought up with the idea of what the role of a man should represent, and that he should take the lead in situations, be a dominant force i guess. To see him SO trusting of Jack and to let him take the lead in their lovemaking is such a striking indicator of the depth of feeling he already has for Jack. Simply, THE most romantic and compelling love scene i have ever seen.

Yes, I agree completely. That was a beautiful post. Thank you.

The ferocity of the reunion kiss... No other way to better describe it. It is like the kiss at world's end.

coguaro · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 29, 2006, 04:47 PM »

Quote from: jackie62 on Mar 28, 2006, 02:41 PM

couple of quick ideas about whether we see Ennis in love with Jack.

1- The camp fire hug --- where his connection with Jack takes him back to a deep childhood time of love and warmth --- deep connection. Only with those we love deepest, is there such a link. It goes way beyond sex /friendship.

2 - While he can't respond the way I'd hope so many times with Jack ---I personally found the looks on his face when facing their uncertain future spoke volumes--- in the motel when he says " i doubt theres much we can do " ; and when,by the river, he says "if you can't fix it you got to stand it". These were of such profound sadness that i couldn't doubt he's in love. When Jack touches his cheek --- the tears are so close.

3 - The second tent scene --- the way he gives himself to Jack --- trust and fear --- totally alien to what he's ever known . The way he touches Jack --- like he was so precious. Ennis lets Jack take the lead --- not a easy thing for him at all. The sense of their intimacy we all bear witness to seems to me to be love. Their hunger for each other is for more than sex.

These are examples of Ennis's emotions on show not like in the more explosive scenes --- but I think they reflect the depth of the love that drove the possessiveness and the ferocity. The ferocity of the love in the reunion kiss blows you away.

nice post, I completely agrre with you. Finally we can speak about true, absolute love... altgough the drama of the story Ennis and Jack had a big chance: they found the perfect love which not all people can realize

My Man Jack · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 30, 2006, 12:49 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jan 22, 2006, 10:45 AM

The scene is when Ennis comes back to Alma after spending a night with Jack at the Motel Siesta. After announcing to her that he and Jack are spending a few days out 'fishing', Ennis starts to pack and the following scene unfolds. Let me paraphrase the exchange between Ennis and Alma:

Alma: You know, your friend could come up and have coffee...

Ennis: He's from Texas...

Alma: Texans don't drink coffee?

[Ennis proceeds to ignore Alma...]

When Ennis exits the house, Alma looks out the window and overhears the following exchange between Jack and Ennis (my paraphrase):

Jack: I'm starving...You want to get a bite to eat?....

Ennis: Yup...

Ennis was so possessive of Jack that he refused to have Jack invited up to the house to get something to eat, even though he most probably knew that Jack had not had anything to eat and was hungry!!!!! Why did he refuse? Because he did not want to share Jack with anybody -- EVEN WITH HIS WIFE!

This is an INTENSE and POSSESSIVE love!

I find this to be an interesting take on this particular scene.

What leaped off the screen at me was something totally different. It was so obvious to me that Ennis was going out of his way not to touch Alma. He squeezed by her several times and did not tough her. When he came into the house he didn't say hi and hiss her. When he was finally ready to leave he sort of stood there like he didn't know what to do next and finally kissed her on the cheek, which is more than he did when he almost forgot the creel case.

So, I thought the movie was showing me the beginning of the end of Ennis and Alma. Never occurred to me they were showing Ennis's possessive love of Jack. If anything, I would go along with Ennis not wanting to show how much he trembled from anticipation around Jack in front of his wife.

I hope this isn't off topic, but, for a young man who was so paranoid that someone might find out about his relationship with Jack, he was awfully careless around Alma.

He takes the day off where he wears his best shirt, paces around the apartment, drinks heavily, smokes to the point of chain smoking, sits in the window waiting for...who...another man. And when Jack finally does show up Ennis bounds out of the house like someone is outside giving away one hundred dollar bills and bounds down the stairs. Did it never occur to him that with all that day's behavior Alma just might come to the door to see who this Jack Twist is and to greet him as a good wife might?

Then he tells Alma he might stay out all night because when they get drinking and talking... What, Alma doesn't know the bars close at a certain hour? Where was he from the time the bar closed until the next morning, and if he had been drinking and talking all night, why wasn't he drunk when he did get home?

Ennis's behavior did everything to tell her something was very strange about this relationship with Jack Twist. I'm not sure she had to see them kissing to come to that conclusion. Ennis was surely very reckless for a man who didn't want anyone to know.