Topic: It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this... - spoilers

[rimasworld]

I think we had speculated somewhere about Ennis probably looking back at Jack as he drove away.  We can't tell for sure..

But why did he drive off at that moment.  Because it was too much for their hearts at that moment.  Ennis breaking off with Cassie happened after he had time to reflect about the events of the Last Confrontation.  The cange was very slight, but arguably deep.

 

Yes, I think Ennis was so tired of living a lie, it just was too much for him to bear "Can't stand this  no more Jack" and he quit Cassie soon after because she was part of that lie. He was in a mind set to commit more to Jack I feel come November, although it was too late for him in this life, but still he did commit "Jack I swear" in the last scene.

[smartestsonia]

Yes, I think Ennis was so tired of living a lie, it just was too much for him to bear "Can't stand this  no more Jack" and he quit Cassie soon after because she was part of that lie. He was in a mind set to commit more to Jack I feel come November, although it was too late for him in this life, but still he did commit "Jack I swear" in the last scene.

I completely agree with ya...I think Ennis broke up with Cassie as he wanted to spend his life more fruitfully..If he was not able to live with Jack he atleast wanted to spend more time with him...he wanted to make up for the lost time..Unfortunately it was too late...Jack passed away and Ennis was left with so much regret of what could have been...Even after Jack passed away Ennis lived with Jack in his heart..he lived for him...that is a great commitmemt

[tpe]

Yes, I think Ennis was so tired of living a lie, it just was too much for him to bear "Can't stand this  no more Jack" and he quit Cassie soon after because she was part of that lie. He was in a mind set to commit more to Jack I feel come November, although it was too late for him in this life, but still he did commit "Jack I swear" in the last scene.

Yes, "can't stand this anymore" clearly pointed to his inability to deal with the situation.  He needed some time.  Alas, time had run out on Jack.

[smartestsonia]

Yes, "can't stand this anymore" clearly pointed to his inability to deal with the situation.  He needed some time.  Alas, time had run out on Jack.

puts me into pieces to view that... :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

puts me into pieces to view that... :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Sorry, smartestsonia.  This is one of the most difficult scenes in the entire movie -- perhaps the most difficult.

[atalley]

I agree...this scene is so painful to watch, but I was so glad that Ennis admitted his pain before Jack died.  I was a little surprised that there were no comforting words from Jack.  That hug was so awesome.  No way could Jack turn his back on Ennis. 

[smartestsonia]

Sorry, smartestsonia.  This is one of the most difficult scenes in the entire movie -- perhaps the most difficult.

I think we all go through this pain Thomas..Its hard but I think we all stand it..Their love gives us the strength to do that...

[vedrana]

OK folks, my PBS is attacking again!  :\'(  :\'( :\'(

Just reading this thread made me cry!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

Even so, the saddest scene for me is not DE, but the one when Ennis finds the shirts... oh, how that hurts! He found their love hidden in the closet. And his last words: Jack, I swear!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

I can't write any more........ :\'( :\'( :\'( later....

[smartestsonia]

OK folks, my PBS is attacking again!  :\'(  :\'( :\'(

Just reading this thread made me cry!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

Even so, the saddest scene for me is not DE, but the one when Ennis finds the shirts... oh, how that hurts! He found their love hidden in the closet. And his last words: Jack, I swear!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

I can't write any more........ :\'( :\'( :\'( later....

Dear Loreen, hold on we r all with ya 

Its hitting us all hard...I think that when we see Ennis holding the shirts it gets unbeareable to see the height of tragedy that has taken place...It shattered me completely...Although their love has made me strong from within...I have experienced deep happiness to see that even death dint take away what they had..Ennis was literally feeling the presence of Jack in the final scene..its like Jack hugging him when he hugged those shirts.

[tpe]

I agree...this scene is so painful to watch, but I was so glad that Ennis admitted his pain before Jack died.  I was a little surprised that there were no comforting words from Jack.  That hug was so awesome.  No way could Jack turn his back on Ennis. 

I think the admission freed him from some of his internal demons.  It was a beginning rather than an end, as I had voiced out previously.

I think we all go through this pain Thomas..Its hard but I think we all stand it..Their love gives us the strength to do that...

I think the pain is a large part of why we cherish it so.

[tpe]

OK folks, my PBS is attacking again!  :\'(  :\'( :\'(

Just reading this thread made me cry!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

Even so, the saddest scene for me is not DE, but the one when Ennis finds the shirts... oh, how that hurts! He found their love hidden in the closet. And his last words: Jack, I swear!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

I can't write any more........ :\'( :\'( :\'( later....

 

And how painfully sad he was when he finally came down.  You could see the pain etched on his face, even as he couldn't find the right words to ask for the shirts.

[vedrana]

I think the pain is a large part of why we cherish it so.

Sure, tpe! You always find the right words and I know that it is so! The problem for me is only that the pain is sometimes unbearable!  :\'(

And how painfully sad he was when he finally came down.  You could see the pain etched on his face, even as he couldn't find the right words to ask for the shirts.

I already mentioned that when Jack's Ma take the shirts from him to put them in the paper bag, she gently touched his hand ... Oh, all that situation was so devastating for my emotions.. :\'(

[tpe]

Sure, tpe! You always find the right words and I know that it is so! The problem for me is only that the pain is sometimes unbearable!  :\'(

Often, the same can be said about love.

I already mentioned that when Jack's Ma take the shirts from him to put them in the paper bag, she gently touched his hand ... Oh, all that situation was so devastating for my emotions.. :\'(

Ennis's sadness at this moment was unbearable, but that touch must have been a comfort. 

If Jack and Jack's death somehow made Ennis miserable, it is a comfort to know that Ennis turned became a more loving and caring individual.  "It's because of you that I'm like this..."

[orangetruck]

...

If Jack and Jack's death somehow made Ennis miserable, it is a comfort to know that Ennis turned became a more loving and caring individual.  "It's because of you that I'm like this..."

I love this insight.

[vedrana]

It is moving tro see this thread once again.

Ennis's "It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this" and Jack's "I wish I knew how to quit you" are pendants to each other.  They both express an ambiguous hidden admission.  In Jack's, it was an indirect admission that he couldn't quit Ennis.  With Ennis, it was an admission that he wasn't in control after all.

Tpe,
I just went back to one of your previous posts - you are so right here! I always believed that all his life Ennis desperately wanted to be in control of everything - his marriage, his kids, his job, habitat... but he was NEVER  in control of his feelings for Jack! When he heard that Jack had sex with another men, he broke! At the same time, Jack, who was searching for comfort with another men, admit that no other man can replace his precious friend, his love - Ennis!

Unfortunately, their new meeting was never to come, and the possible result from this confessions will never occur!  :\'( :\'( :\'(

Annie P, what did you do to us? Why you killed our dear Jack, and let Ennis suffer so much?  :\'( :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

Thanks orangetruck 

And thanks too, loreen.  I think losing control was a big thing to Ennis at that moment.  But I also think he gradually sensed it as a liberation.  Who knows what could have opened up and flowered, had they been able to meet that November?

[vedrana]

Often, the same can be said about love.

Ennis's sadness at this moment was unbearable, but that touch must have been a comfort. 

If Jack and Jack's death somehow made Ennis miserable, it is a comfort to know that Ennis turned became a more loving and caring individual.  "It's because of you that I'm like this..."

I'll have to oppose a little to this!  

He was always loving and caring IMO. He just never saw the sun, through the very narrow entrance to his heart. He was in pain before Jack's death ( as he new that he's refusing the "diamond" Jack was offering to him), and he'll be in pain forever (as Jack will never come back). I have to admit that I see not so much comfort in the last scenes of the movie. Only a deep deep sorrow!  :\'( :\'( :\'(  ....  

So many lost chances, so many suffering, so much sensesless denial .... and finally death! Valley of tears!  :\'(

[tpe]

I'll have to oppose a little to this!  

He was always loving and caring IMO. He just never saw the sun, through the very narrow entrance to his heart. He was in pain before Jack's death ( as he new that he's refusing the "diamond" Jack was offering to him), and he'll be in pain forever (as Jack will never come back). I have to admit that I see not so much comfort in the last scenes of the movie. Only a deep deep sorrow!  :\'( :\'( :\'(  ....  

So many lost chances, so many suffering, so much sensesless denial .... and finally death! Valley of tears!  :\'(

Well, I think Ennis did love the poeple around him -- Jack, the daughters, and even Alma.  But the love was previously not "big" enough to surmount hios opwn deep fears.  Jack's death made this possible, if only gradually.

[vedrana]

Well, I think Ennis did love the poeple around him -- Jack, the daughters, and even Alma.  But the love was previously not "big" enough to surmount hios opwn deep fears.  Jack's death made this possible, if only gradually.

I I know so many Brokies have seen the light at the end of BBM! I just haven't.... Maybe I need time, or... It's just that my regrets for their lost chances can't be surpassed by a little change in Ennis's approach to others or his decision to go to Junior's wedding. He just lost so much to gain so little.

I am sorry to be so pessimistic, as others feel pain too, but I can't help it!

 

  One way or the other I respect your opinion a lot! 

[atalley]

Loreen...in time your heart will heal.  I now see it as bittersweet, but all of us have been where you are now.

[vedrana]

Loreen...in time your heart will heal.  I now see it as bittersweet, but all of us have been where you are now.

 

Yes, I expect this pain to ease, or to change... it will! In fact it is a bit easier already! 

 

[babytammy7]

He just never saw the sun, through the very narrow entrance to his heart. He was in pain before Jack's death ( as he new that he's refusing the "diamond" Jack was offering to him), and he'll be in pain forever (as Jack will never come back). I have to admit that I see not so much comfort in the last scenes of the movie. Only a deep deep sorrow!  :\'( :\'( :\'(  ....  

So many lost chances, so many suffering, so much sensesless denial .... and finally death! Valley of tears!  :\'(

I I know so many Brokies have seen the light at the end of BBM! I just haven't.... Maybe I need time, or... It's just that my regrets for their lost chances can't be surpassed by a little change in Ennis's approach to others or his decision to go to Junior's wedding. He just lost so much to gain so little.

After almost three years I still feel like this. 

[vedrana]

After almost three years I still feel like this. 

Your words are not so comforting for my hopes to get over PBS as soon as possible (3 YEARS??)  but surely I feel for you. It's the very same pain we share! 

 

[babytammy7]

Your words are not so comforting for my hopes to get over PBS as soon as possible (3 YEARS??)  but surely I feel for you. It's the very same pain we share! 

 

Baby, as I said lots of times here, my PBS is worse than ever, and sometimes I think it's stronger than the first time I saw the movie; or maybe it's because I was dying of sadness back then after seeing BBM and I couldn't think or feel that I didn't realized of how much I was suffering; or maybe it was because I was terribly alone (I found this forum a year and half after my first view of the film) and I couldn't put in words my feelings that I never could meassure the intensity of my pain. But now I can tell you that my PBS is as tall, strong and huge as that damn mountain called Brokeback was.

[babytammy7]

      Tammy its good to see you!     


      Come here....            

      You an I both lay broken at the foot a that there mountain.

      Ill try an start a fire you check that harmonica.

                                                   

       This confrontation was/is somethin that shot right through me.  Startled and saddend and still haunts me. 

Hey, Shawn!! 

It's so good to be here again, cowboy.

First time I saw BBM I was so shocked because of the confrontation scene that after my second view I knew it all by heart, all the words, all the expressions, and one good friend of mine at work made me every day recite all the dialogue said there; but it hurt so damn much and I didn't want to do it, so I tried to avoid my friend every day. Tell you what, still I know by heart Ennis lines and Jack's lines, in English and in Spanish, and still hurt like the first time I saw that scene. Don't get me started, friend, because I could tell you about the river I cried in Brussels when I saw our boys talking to each other like that, and I'm already so OT here.

Shawn. 

[smartestsonia]

Baby, as I said lots of times here, my PBS is worse than ever, and sometimes I think it's stronger than the first time I saw the movie; or maybe it's because I was dying of sadness back then after seeing BBM and I couldn't think or feel that I didn't realized of how much I was suffering; or maybe it was because I was terribly alone (I found this forum a year and half after my first view of the film) and I couldn't put in words my feelings that I never could meassure the intensity of my pain. But now I can tell you that my PBS is as tall, strong and huge as that damn mountain called Brokeback was.

Sweet Tammy 
My dear I feel your pain..I feel the same..Its chokes me when I watch the FC..Its too heart breaking and even today when I watch the film my wounds gets fresh...There is so much love in our pain and I really believe that this love keeps us going...Ennis and Jack r an inseperable part of our lives and inspite of the lack of communication and so much hurt they r soulmates and their love is eternal.

[vedrana]

Baby, as I said lots of times here, my PBS is worse than ever, and sometimes I think it's stronger than the first time I saw the movie; or maybe it's because I was dying of sadness back then after seeing BBM and I couldn't think or feel that I didn't realized of how much I was suffering; or maybe it was because I was terribly alone (I found this forum a year and half after my first view of the film) and I couldn't put in words my feelings that I never could meassure the intensity of my pain. But now I can tell you that my PBS is as tall, strong and huge as that damn mountain called Brokeback was.

OMG BT, don't do this to me. I started to ease my pain now, but I am so much afraid of any word or any situation that can make my PBS come again. I understand you.

I just have to believe that one day I'll be free of Ennis and Jack! And now I'm trying to find my way out. You should to, because it depends only on us!

I don't want to preach here, but I know that all of us should cherish our own lives and health and try to accept this sorrow as a part of our hearts. After all, it is only a story, story that thought us something! Each one of us has learned the different lesson, according to our own hearts and souls, our background, experience....

As much as I need a comfort myself, I see that you're in the really bad state right now, and I feel for you deeply.  

 

[tpe]

I I know so many Brokies have seen the light at the end of BBM! I just haven't.... Maybe I need time, or... It's just that my regrets for their lost chances can't be surpassed by a little change in Ennis's approach to others or his decision to go to Junior's wedding. He just lost so much to gain so little.

I am sorry to be so pessimistic, as others feel pain too, but I can't help it!

 

  One way or the other I respect your opinion a lot! 

Well, personally, I am not as optimistic as you think.  IN fact, I rather sympathize with your point of view.  Ennis learned how to love a bit more, even as he will spend the rest of his life with a deep pain.  Jack's "lesson" was a two-edged blade.

[vedrana]

Well, personally, I am not as optimistic as you think.  IN fact, I rather sympathize with your point of view.  Ennis learned how to love a bit more, even as he will spend the rest of his life with a deep pain.  Jack's "lesson" was a two-edged blade.

Tpe  ,
I'm new here in the forum, and I'm sure that many Brokies have already discussed this issues before, in some other threads, maybe even years ago... I saw that many Brokies think that FC was a turning point where Ennis maybe changed, or Jack decided to move on (with Randall), or...

Also, some see that after losing Jack forever, Ennis's has changed and become more loving or something...

I see nothing of these. Of course, I believe that BBM is so emotionally complicated story that each of us has his own explanation and feeling about it. Well, mine is that there's no hope for Ennis. Just a deep sorrow, just some long and lonely years of regretting for let Jack go. Years of keeping shirts in his poor closet, years of sweet and sad dreams about Jack, endurance he had shown through all his young years which will last until he die, and the motto of this story: If you can not fix it, you have to stand it. Surely, Ennis can't fix it any more.  :\'(

As for FC, I also see no obvious change. Only that confession from Jack and stunning reaction from Ennis, as you beautifully explained yesterday. Had dear Jack be alive, they'll meet in November and things would be pretty much the same, IMO.

Maybe A. Proloux could tell us more about it...

 :\'( :\'( :\'(

[smartestsonia]

Tpe  ,
I'm new here in the forum, and I'm sure that many Brokies have already discussed this issues before, in some other threads, maybe even years ago... I saw that many Brokies think that FC was a turning point where Ennis maybe changed, or Jack decided to move on (with Randall), or...

Also, some see that after losing Jack forever, Ennis's has changed and become more loving or something...

I see nothing of these. Of course, I believe that BBM is so emotionally complicated story that each of us has his own explanation and feeling about it. Well, mine is that there's no hope for Ennis. Just a deep sorrow, just some long and lonely years of regretting for let Jack go. Years of keeping shirts in his poor closet, years of sweet and sad dreams about Jack, endurance he had shown through all his young years which will last until he die, and the motto of this story: If you can not fix it, you have to stand it. Surely, Ennis can't fix it any more.  :\'(

As for FC, I also see no obvious change. Only that confession from Jack and stunning reaction from Ennis, as you beautifully explained yesterday. Had dear Jack be alive, they'll meet in November and things would be pretty much the same, IMO.

Maybe A. Proloux could tell us more about it...

 :\'( :\'( :\'(

IMO , I feel that in FC Jack did see the intensity of Ennis's hurts and suffering and he came and hugged him because he saw that Ennis was fighting it so much and could not take it..Ennis breaking up with Cassie showed us hope of him being more with Jack..I am not talking about living together as I feel that it would be too much for Ennis to deal with..But in November if they would have met I feel that things would have been better..I dont know why but I feel that Ennis realized that he was not there for Jack so many times and Jack realized that Ennis was broken...When they would have met next time, perhaps in November and if Jack would have known that Ennis broke up with Cassie that would have given him a positive signal that there is hope...On the other hand, Ennis would have never ever beared sharing Jack with another man and would have not let him be with another man and thats why he wanted to meet up with Jack to make things better...I really see hope there and I really feel that it would have worked out..I mean atleast they would have met and had a virtual relation if not living together...It would have been atleast better than what happened as they dint meet and Jack passed away...

Alas,neither they nor we knew that Jack would pass away and so much would be left unsaid and unspoken :\'( :\'(