Topic: It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this... - spoilers

[vedrana]

Wonderful post!

 

 

[tpe]

I am not so sure about Ennis's knowledge of his own happiness at this point. I'm even less sure that Ennis was a better person because of Jack's love because he destroyed all his other relationships, he lived a lonely and sad life. All that for a few times a year of sunlight that was heating his soul - Jack's love. Ennis never opened his heart enough to receive this pure love energy. In that way he was loosing the both sides - his life in Riverton and "sweet life" with Jack.

I believe that his words were honest at the time. What he had just heard was the worst thing that he could've imagine - Jack wasn't cherishing their love in the same way he was. Jack was fooling around with other men. Moreover, Jack expressed his extreme dissatisfaction with the rhythm of their relationship. That was devastating, and he just explode, in a way talking more to himself than to Jack.... IMO

He would have destroyed all his relationships inevitably, IMO, because he married for the wrong reasons.  He was lonely and sad not because of Jack or Alma or the kids -- he was lonely because he didn't have the courage to overcome his fears and live a life of love that everyone was entitled to.

Jack's death opened his eyes to this entitlement.  To love is a choice, and not a command.

 

[tpe]

And it's curious to see how Ennis was almost joking when he knew that Jack had a relationship with a woman; but,on the contrary,he reacted as a jeaulous lover when the "rival" was another man,and even,when he realised that there has been many others one-night men.

Was Ennis also perhaps blaming Jack for this jealousy?

[myprivatejack]

Was Ennis also perhaps blaming Jack for this jealousy?

Or perhaps he was blaming himself to having produced Jack's actions somehow and being jeaulous for them...

[rimasworld]

Ennis was lashing out at Jack's revelation, it is the worst thing you can hear from the person you love and at that moment he was kicked in the gut and stabbed in the heart, enough to bring him to his knees and cry out. It's a horrible feeling.

[smartestsonia]

Ennis was lashing out at Jack's revelation, it is the worst thing you can hear from the person you love and at that moment he was kicked in the gut and stabbed in the heart, enough to bring him to his knees and cry out. It's a horrible feeling.

There is no doubt about that...It chockes me  :\'(

[orangetruck]

He would have destroyed all his relationships inevitably, IMO, because he married for the wrong reasons.  He was lonely and sad not because of Jack or Alma or the kids -- he was lonely because he didn't have the courage to overcome his fears and live a life of love that everyone was entitled to.

Jack's death opened his eyes to this entitlement.  To love is a choice, and not a command.

 

Very nicely said! 

[smartestsonia]

He would have destroyed all his relationships inevitably, IMO, because he married for the wrong reasons.  He was lonely and sad not because of Jack or Alma or the kids -- he was lonely because he didn't have the courage to overcome his fears and live a life of love that everyone was entitled to.

Jack's death opened his eyes to this entitlement.  To love is a choice, and not a command.

 

He was caught up in his fears so tight that he was miserable and he could not make himself just live the life that would truely make him happy...Its very unfortuante and painful to see that..Ennis always loved
Jack and wanted them to be together but to live together was something that Ennis could not face...

[BlueMountain]

Ennis was practically crying in this scene for the first time... :\'( I think this is one of the most powerful scenes in the movie specially when Jack conforts Ennis and he tries to push him off... The worst part is that we find out about Jack's death exactly right after we feel that things might start to work out for Ennis and Jack. :\'(

[smartestsonia]

Ennis was practically crying in this scene for the first time... :\'( I think this is one of the most powerful scenes in the movie specially when Jack conforts Ennis and he tries to push him off... The worst part is that we find out about Jack's death exactly right after we feel that things might start to work out for Ennis and Jack. :\'(

That's the biggest tragedy  :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

Or perhaps he was blaming himself to having produced Jack's actions somehow and being jeaulous for them...

An interesting POV, MPJ!  A bit convoluted, perhaps, but people are indeed complicated...

[tpe]

Ennis was lashing out at Jack's revelation, it is the worst thing you can hear from the person you love and at that moment he was kicked in the gut and stabbed in the heart, enough to bring him to his knees and cry out. It's a horrible feeling.

Well, one can say for certainly that Jack also suffered a great deal.  Sometimes, it is a true act of bravery to say such things to the people you love the most.  Because it hurts you as much as it hurts them.

[tpe]

Very nicely said! 

Thanks orangetruck.  I was out sick yesterday and missed reading all the discussion threads!

He was caught up in his fears so tight that he was miserable and he could not make himself just live the life that would truely make him happy...Its very unfortuante and painful to see that..Ennis always loved
Jack and wanted them to be together but to live together was something that Ennis could not face...

I think that Ennis knew that he himself eas to blame for much of the current state of things.  His accusation was not without merit, but it certainly didn't admit to any complicity on his part...

[vedrana]

Ennis was practically crying in this scene for the first time... :\'( I think this is one of the most powerful scenes in the movie specially when Jack conforts Ennis and he tries to push him off... The worst part is that we find out about Jack's death exactly right after we feel that things might start to work out for Ennis and Jack. :\'(

Well, I never thought of FC like some important turning point in their relationship (except of course the most devastating outcome - Jack's death), but thinking twice - yes sure! A lot of things had been going on there - secrets, acusations, tears, quarrel... Some result was expected in November indeed. But in the terms of dealing with their relationship we saw nothing - instead, Ennis had to deal with his own feelings, as dear Jack was already not there... That of course came in one of the worst moments.

But as I said, AP was pushing our buttons in the genius way leaving us no space to enjoy, rather to contemplate the depth of their love and lost chances of their lives. :\'(

[tpe]

Ennis was practically crying in this scene for the first time... :\'( I think this is one of the most powerful scenes in the movie specially when Jack conforts Ennis and he tries to push him off... The worst part is that we find out about Jack's death exactly right after we feel that things might start to work out for Ennis and Jack. :\'(

This was the irony of it all. 

The power of this scene may also come from hindsight -- that this was to be their last confrontation.  I think had Ennis had known what was to happen to Jack, he might have checked himself.  But in so doing, perhaps this would have greatly diminished the power of this scene.

[BlueMountain]

Well, I never thought of FC like some important turning point in their relationship (except of course the most devastating outcome - Jack's death), but thinking twice - yes sure! A lot of things had been going on there - secrets, acusations, tears, quarrel... Some result was expected in November indeed. But in the terms of dealing with their relationship we saw nothing - instead, Ennis had to deal with his own feelings, as dear Jack was already not there... That of course came in one of the worst moments.

But as I said, AP was pushing our buttons in the genius way leaving us no space to enjoy, rather to contemplate the depth of their love and lost chances of their lives. :\'(

Yeah, I think that's really what made the movie so powerful... It would of been great to see Ennis and Jack live together finally happily... But the reason the movie made such an impact on people was because of the shocking conclution of finding out what happend to Jake and then Ennis's life being destroyed... :\'(

[myprivatejack]

Yeah, I think that's really what made the movie so powerful... It would of been great to see Ennis and Jack live together finally happily... But the reason the movie made such an impact on people was because of the shocking conclution of finding out what happend to Jake and then Ennis's life being destroyed... :\'(

I completely agree,BM ¡ And we all never had arrived to understand the powerful lesson of the movie; be yourself and fight for what or who you want.

[BlueMountain]

I completely agree,BM ¡ And we all never had arrived to understand the powerful lesson of the movie; be yourself and fight for what or who you want.

 :ghug:Exactly myprivatejack!  I love the moral of the story alot!

[smartestsonia]

Yeah, I think that's really what made the movie so powerful... It would of been great to see Ennis and Jack live together finally happily... But the reason the movie made such an impact on people was because of the shocking conclution of finding out what happend to Jake and then Ennis's life being destroyed... :\'(

I have always felt the same..If Ennis and Jack would have lived happily ever after then we would all be rejoicing and there would be a complete different topic as to how they would happily live after and it would give us the satisfaction that even though they suffered when they were young at the end they did live the rest of their lives together....But none of that happened....It dint even come close..We get some hope when Ennis wants to meet Jack after the FC but then the worst tragedy takes place and the worst plight falls on all of us and we r all left into pieces ..Jack is no more....We struggle so much as the pain is huge of them not being together...

We can learn never to take love for granted and accept it when it is in front of us and to cherish every moment as u never know how long it will remain...

[BlueMountain]

I have always felt the same..If Ennis and Jack would have lived happily ever after then we would all be rejoicing and there would be a complete different topic as to how they would happily live after and it would give us the satisfaction that even though they suffered when they were young at the end they did live the rest of their lives together....But none of that happened....It dint even come close..We get some hope when Ennis wants to meet Jack after the FC but then the worst tragedy takes place and the worst plight falls on all of us and we r all left into pieces ..Jack is no more....We struggle so much as the pain is huge of them not being together...

We can learn never to take love for granted and accept it when it is in front of us and to cherish every moment as u never know how long it will remain...

A agree, The news of Jack's death so so sudden and abrupt that it really killed me from inside! :\'(
I love the message you mentioned about cherishing love! That's right, Ennis's took Jack's love for grandted and should of been with him for all those years! :\'(

[rimasworld]

Well, one can say for certainly that Jack also suffered a great deal.  Sometimes, it is a true act of bravery to say such things to the people you love the most.  Because it hurts you as much as it hurts them.

Yes all that hurt had been simmering in Jack for a long time until it finally boiled over and Ennis' abrupt emotions of pain and betrayal during that scene show he didn't fully realize how shattered Jack had been all those years.

[tpe]

Yes all that hurt had been simmering in Jack for a long time until it finally boiled over and Ennis' abrupt emotions of pain and betrayal during that scene show he didn't fully realize how shattered Jack had been all those years.

Perhaps Jack should have answered Ennis's accusation by a similar accusation: it's because of you that I'm like this.

[vedrana]

Perhaps Jack should have answered Ennis's accusation by a similar accusation: it's because of you that I'm like this.

Maybe, but at the moment he was already ... how to say politely -p***ed of.. angry? He had never before stood up against Ennis as during FC. That was already too much for him IMO. Poor Jack! 

[tpe]

Maybe, but at the moment he was already ... how to say politely -p***ed of.. angry? He had never before stood up against Ennis as during FC. That was already too much for him IMO. Poor Jack! 

I agree.  In a way, when Jack said "I did, once..."  he was pretty much telling Ennis the same thing.

[vedrana]

I agree.  In a way, when Jack said "I did, once..."  he was pretty much telling Ennis the same thing.

These words were so painful, not only for Ennis but also for us, as we knew how true they were and how Jack was miserable for being refused so many times... :\'(

[smartestsonia]

Perhaps Jack should have answered Ennis's accusation by a similar accusation: it's because of you that I'm like this.

I think Jack saying that he wished he could quit him was itself so dam huge....all these years he was so tolerent and then he said something so strong..If he would tell Ennis that he was so because of Ennis then Ennis would have been double miserable..When Ennis said that because of Jack he is like this, Jack saw him breaking down and then he saw that this is more than Ennis can handle and inspite of hurting so much he himself came to Ennis to hug him...That was something great...

[rimasworld]

I think Jack saying that he wished he could quit him was itself so dam huge....all these years he was so tolerent and then he said something so strong..If he would tell Ennis that he was so because of Ennis then Ennis would have been double miserable..When Ennis said that because of Jack he is like this, Jack saw him breaking down and then he saw that this is more than Ennis can handle and inspite of hurting so much he himself came to Ennis to hug him...That was something great...

Yes, he put Ennis' pain above his and wanted to comfort him, he loved him so much even when he was so angry at him.

[tpe]

These words were so painful, not only for Ennis but also for us, as we knew how true they were and how Jack was miserable for being refused so many times... :\'(

And the look on Jack's face was so full of hurt and reproach.  No wonder Ennis was so stung. 

[tpe]

I think Jack saying that he wished he could quit him was itself so dam huge....all these years he was so tolerent and then he said something so strong..If he would tell Ennis that he was so because of Ennis then Ennis would have been double miserable..When Ennis said that because of Jack he is like this, Jack saw him breaking down and then he saw that this is more than Ennis can handle and inspite of hurting so much he himself came to Ennis to hug him...That was something great...

Yes, he put Ennis' pain above his and wanted to comfort him, he loved him so much even when he was so angry at him.

It was really huge for me to see how Jack reacted to Ennis's accusation: it was so full of compassion, and he didn't argue with Ennis about it.  The hug he gave in rssponse to this neither confirmed nor denied it.  I think, the point was that both of them had become so much a part of each other that to hurt one was to hurt the other.

[vedrana]

It was really huge for me to see how Jack reacted to Ennis's accusation: it was so full of compassion, and he didn't argue with Ennis about it.  The hug he gave in rssponse to this neither confirmed nor denied it.  I think, the point was that both of them had become so much a part of each other that to hurt one was to hurt the other.

That is what attached us so much to this story: Ennis is Jack's love, hope, pain, longing, meaning of his life.... Jack is Ennis's love, hope, pain, reason to live... Each time we see Jack - we see what he means to Ennis and vice versa.