Topic: was ennis gay ?

[lancecowboy]

Well cowboy, you put this bait out there, so I'm stupid enough to take it . . . “Pivotal”? nah, helpful? possibly. If indeed either were gay, would they have had these feelings without these events, you bet. Seems we have some vague ideas of who is (and who isn’t) a homo and therefore have some farfetched ideas of why they are a homo. My take is we don’t really have any better idea than why some folks like chocolate cake, some like oysters, and some actually like haggis. If we’re ever able to figure that out then maybe we can start thinkin’ about tryin’ to ‘splain the reasons behind human sexual tendencies. JMHO

Me?!  Baiting?!  Honestly, officer, I was a good boy.

And seriously, Jackster, I love your response. You took the words right out of my head when you said, "why some folks like chocolate cake, some oysters, and some acutally like haggis." Well, I would have said only "why some people like cherry cake, and others vanilla" but I like your version better. I was only asking because I thought the question "was ennis gay?" embedded its own limitation on the possible answers. It created a dichotomy of yes or no, when in fact, JMHO, Ennis' sexuality is much more complex, that changes over time.

So I can't use the excuse my mom drop me on my head when I was a baby? Darn!!!

Seriously I agree with Jackster, its one them mysteries of life,  I'm just trying not to let life past me by thinking about it.   JMHO.

And I agree with you agreeing with Jackster. It reminds me of who said it, "Life is what happens while we are busy making plans." I am sure I got the quotation wrong, and I am equally sure some smart guy will come along and correct me, and tell us who said the original wise saying.  in advance.

[athena0204]

Thank you for the clarification. I always thought the right-wingers thinking a little unreal. Being gay in a repressive society, is such a horrible experience growing up, that no sane person would CHOOSE to be gay. It is why teenage suicide among gays is much higher than among straights. Now that the new attitude about gays is prevalent in western society, and perhaps around the world eventually, I hope Heath can be proud to be in a movie that perhaps changed a few minds, and saved a few lives.

Thanks again for your clarification. It is so easy to be misunderstood in cyberspace. Actually, it is easy to be understood in real life, too.

Yeah, I've never thought that being gay is a choice, therefore I find the right-wingers argument quite ridiculous. The bottom line is, every person should be able to be with the person they truly love, whether that person is of a different ethnicity, born into a different religion, same gender, etc. True love transcends all the meaningless boundaries society has instilled upon humanity.

[lancecowboy]

Yeah, I've never thought that being gay is a choice, therefore I find the right-wingers argument quite ridiculous. The bottom line is, every person should be able to be with the person they truly love, whether that person is of a different ethnicity, born into a different religion, same gender, etc. True love transcends all the meaningless boundaries society has instilled upon humanity.

  I agree.

[orangetruck]

Personally, I don't think the pivotal espisodes of young Jack and Ennis influenced either boy/man's sexuality. They were born gay, imo; as to when they became *aware* of it, hell, it could have been foggy forever. Half way to forever, it becomes obvious the awareness doesn't matter -- it's not a necessity like the acceptance of their love is.
If anything, I think as far as influence of scenes like Earl goes, the boys were brashly introduced to denial; Ennis' switch inside was shut off, leaving him to grow up in the dark and trip over his own branches, a way of ignoring himself. His genetically sexual make-up was hindered. Jack, I'm not real sure. I get the idea that he's gay and outside of the abuse, his curious nature picked up the difference in genitalia, much like a boy simply notes his father has extra stuff should they bathe together. Perhaps the abusive episodes of his father merely influenced Jack's sensitive side and need to protect/comfort a companion later on. Had he only ever been neglected and not given love growing up, perhaps he wouldn't make a match for Ennis. Like when 2 magnets are turned towards each other to resistance, and Ennis doesn't budge and Jack swings around for the magnetic connection.
I feel the only real influence on the boys' genetic homosexuality was when the match was made on Brokeback Mountain. It's what they were born to do, no matter how disturbing their roads there had been. Their natural and complete love was the highest influence. All else was the influence of fear and the absense of what is (gay) love.

[jackster]

. . . It reminds me of who said it, "Life is what happens while we are busy making plans." I am sure I got the quotation wrong, and I am equally sure some smart guy will come along and correct me, and tell us who said the original wise saying.  in advance.

Pretty damn close cowboy -
"Life is what happens to you're while you're busy making other plans"
John Lennon
1980

[jeffjoe]

Personally, I don't think the pivotal espisodes of young Jack and Ennis influenced either boy/man's sexuality. They were born gay, imo; as to when they became *aware* of it, hell, it could have been foggy forever. Half way to forever, it becomes obvious the awareness doesn't matter -- it's not a necessity like the acceptance of their love is.

I think this is true you are that you was born to be... if you are not aware of it, does't mean you are not i guess.

[lancecowboy]

Pretty damn close cowboy -
"Life is what happens to you're while you're busy making other plans"
John Lennon
1980

smart guy. 

[lancecowboy]

I think this is true you are that you was born to be... if you are not aware of it, does't mean you are not i guess.

Okay, we are back to the duality definition of gay/not gay. But now we are also confronted with aware/not aware. And the question is still unanswered, IMHO. Just shifted to a different question. Aware of what?

Was Ennis at nine aware that he was interested in men sexually? I highly doubt it. Was he interested in men as friends and best buddies? That brings us back to the definition of gay/not gay. And I am getting dizzy from the circular definitions. Or, perhaps, it is just too late at night to be philosophical.

I agree that IF a person is born gay, not being aware of it, does not change the gayness. The lack of awareness or understanding simply makes it more difficult to manage it. On the other hand, I also believe that being gay or not, a person's identity must necessarily transcend the label. The traumatic events, the pivotal moments, may have locked into the core of their identity what should have been but a mere appendix.

[fonsucu]

Of course Ennis was gay. He was gay from the beginning, although he didn´t like the idea. He had seen as a child how society treatred perverts, after all. Straight  men don´t usually have sex with people of the same sex. Some do, though, but not very often, and certainly not for so long as Ennis did with Jack.
On the other hand, considerig Jack a gay character, in opposition to straight Ennis, is a bit construed. He´s just an easy-going, practical type, a kind of hedonist, less conventional. Ennis´s personality is much more complex and evolves along the years. I wouldn´t wonder if he ended up in the Gay Liberation Front!

[tpe]

Welcome to the forum fonsucu!

I must say that you may get into an "argument" here with some of the members as to Ennis.  But I tend to agree with you, even though I recognize that the ambiguity of the story and film only serves to enrich our appreciation for the complexity of each charcter...

[orangetruck]

Of course Ennis was gay. He was gay from the beginning, although he didn´t like the idea. He had seen as a child how society treatred perverts, after all. Straight  men don´t usually have sex with people of the same sex. Some do, though, but not very often, and certainly not for so long as Ennis did with Jack.
On the other hand, considerig Jack a gay character, in opposition to straight Ennis, is a bit construed. He´s just an easy-going, practical type, a kind of hedonist, less conventional. Ennis´s personality is much more complex and evolves along the years. I wouldn´t wonder if he ended up in the Gay Liberation Front!

I'm with what Thomas has said regarding the thread's dynamic, and I pretty well share your opinion, fonsucu.

  Hope you're well. 

[Asali]

Of course Ennis was gay. He was gay from the beginning, although he didn´t like the idea. He had seen as a child how society treatred perverts, after all. Straight  men don´t usually have sex with people of the same sex. Some do, though, but not very often, and certainly not for so long as Ennis did with Jack.
On the other hand, considerig Jack a gay character, in opposition to straight Ennis, is a bit construed. He´s just an easy-going, practical type, a kind of hedonist, less conventional. Ennis´s personality is much more complex and evolves along the years. I wouldn´t wonder if he ended up in the Gay Liberation Front!

I agree, I think what we are really trying to figure out is when did Ennis realise he had gay feelings?

[chameau]

Well the way he looks at Jack at the very beginning of the movie and the glances in Aguire's trailer have some meaning to me, he was probably not concious of it yet but interested he looked like.

[Asali]

Oh yeah he looked but he sure didn't realise or accept it about himself. I think his first realisation of accepting his homosexual feelings was while sitting outside the tent before SNIT scene.

[chameau]

That's it!

[aintfoolin]

 Yes, I believe his was aware of his same sex attraction as a child. I don't know  if one is born gay, but I don't think it's something that's chosen.
I dont think Ennis came to some great realization all of a sudden when he stole those glances  at Jack from under that cowboy hat in front of Aguirre's. I think the attraction for same sex attraction just sort of come to him early just as *straight* people's orientation is decided. When you know, you know. Something he saw in Jack stould out for him or at least a part of him that told him there was potential there.

 Perhaps the seed for potential  was planted early in Ennis, a strong awareness, but what he was taught and saw put the fear in him for what would happen to him if he even had an inkling about showing it or even admitting it to himself. He had to be a *man's man* cuz daddy sure let him know anything  other than that is bad news ..There was a price to pay for being "queer", maybe your very life. Earl and Rich's fate may have been seared into his brain, but so was their idea of two men ,living together, in a loving relationship reinforcing his own feelings of possibility even as a child. Maybe he saw  Earl and Rich and saw himself and via a child's mind saw and confirmed for him, that  He was'nt the only one, others had these feelings too....but he saw their fate also.

So he repressed it, only letting it surface again when he met Jack, the right person at the right time in the right place for him to do it. Possibilty? I'm speculating here.

[Asali]

Yes, I believe his was aware of his same sex attraction as a child. I don't know  if one is born gay, but I don't think it's something that's chosen.

I don't believe Ennis realised as a child or even early teens, Jack ignited that dormant spark in Ennis and once the realisation came there was no denying it. I though totally believe that you do not choose your sexuality.

I dont think Ennis came to some great realization all of a sudden when he stole those glances  at Jack from under that cowboy hat in front of Aguirre's. I think the attraction for same sex attraction just sort of come to him early just as *straight* people's orientation is decided. When you know, you know.

No it would not of been sudden, and even when he noticed Jack he probably would not have been aware that infact his attraction was real. Does one really know they are straight or is to be expected?

Something he saw in Jack stould out for him or at least a part of him that told him there was potential there

Oh yeah and that is what ignited the spark and Ennis couldn't resist or deny the feelings going through him.

Perhaps the seed for potential  was planted early in Ennis, a strong awareness, but what he was taught and saw put the fear in him for what would happen to him if he even had an inkling about showing it or even admitting it to himself. He had to be a *man's man* cuz daddy sure let him know anything  other than that is bad news ..There was a price to pay for being "queer", maybe your very life. Earl and Rich's fate may have been seared into his brain, but so was their idea of two men ,living together, in a loving relationship reinforcing his own feelings of possibility even as a child. Maybe he saw  Earl and Rich and saw himself and via a child's mind saw and confirmed for him, that  He was'nt the only one, others had these feelings too....but he saw their fate also.

Once he finally realised that he had same sex attraction yes this would have been his greatest fear, wether he had thought of the Earl/Rich experience since childhood or not it certainly would have surfaced again at this stage in his life.

So he repressed it, only letting it surface again when he met Jack, the right person at the right time in the right place for him to do it. Possibilty? I'm speculating here.

Yep right person, place, time.

[aintfoolin]

I don't believe Ennis realised as a child or even early teens, Jack ignited that dormant spark in Ennis and once the realisation came there was no denying it. I though totally believe that you do not choose your sexuality.
No it would not of been sudden, and even when he noticed Jack he probably would not have been aware that infact his attraction was real. Does one really know they are straight or is to be expected?
Oh yeah and that is what ignited the spark and Ennis couldn't resist or deny the feelings going through him.
Once he finally realised that he had same sex attraction yes this would have been his greatest fear, wether he had thought of the Earl/Rich experience since childhood or not it certainly would have surfaced again at this stage in his life.
Yep right person, place, time.

I can only speak for myself, but as a child, I was very aware of my sexuality, even going far back as pre-teen-early teen days.  Does'nt mean I was sexually active one way or the other , but had a self-awareness of my sexuality. who I was attracted to and who I wanted. I just don't feel one wakes up one day after many years to  the fact that they  are attracted to a same-sex person like a bolt of lightning from the sky though. I believe many deal  with  it secretly everyday, but cannot find the courage or have a Brokeback type situation for themselves. people are in a daily struggle about letting the feelings surface or showing society that they id entify with being gay. It does'nt make them any less gay than  the person who's out to the world already. Just can't bring themself to act upon those feelings in the face of society for various reasons.. "I aint queer" and "boys like you" are examples of Ennis's reasoning  out things out for himself , when he does'nt have real answers regarding his ongoing conflict inside.  When he felt vulnerable to the fear.  He can reap all the benefits of a relationship with Jack accept the full acceptance of what it meant. Jack was'nt meeting himself  alone up  there in those woods in the middle of nowhere . Ennis was there acting upon what he knew to be the truth about himself. He wanted this and needed it.  The lengths he went to to be there, quitting jobs. marriages etc... This was not just a one shot, fly  by night deal. This was important and an essential part of his life.

Certain things had to be admitted, maybe not to society or even clearly to Jack, but to himself? I think he did admit it to himself at some point that he loved another man, but did he fully accept it? I think not.  Did that make him gay? I think so.  Sure , he had a homophobic father who wished death upon gays and taught that hate to Ennis, but how much did that have to do with who Ennis felt he was underneath all that hate. He maybe stubborn as a mule, but he could also appreciate a tender moment in Jack's arms.   Why did'nt Ennis react in the typical violent way when Jack initiated FNIT? or avoid Jack totally afterwards  if he believed what he father taught him. Nah,I feel he knew at a certain point, his father was wrong. It felt too right to be that wrong.  to deny Jack was to deny himself though he still felt forbidden. How could he harm someone so much a part of himself?

I feel the seed was planted early and lay repressed ,supressed and dormant out of fear of what could happen. Aside from all that who was Ennis Del Mar deep inside? A straight man who was hit with a reality? Or a  repressed gay man hit with the opportunity of a lifetime. Finally realizing he true self, actually living it and being allowed to feel it , finally finding what has always been missing because of one man , Jack, who simply added water to  that seed planted long ago to grow. Imo, the true test of one's true orientation  it grew and grew , no matter how he sought to control it.. He was getting something good for himself out of it.  Jack and Ennis's spanned close to 20 years. That's a true and lasting love to me.  just sayin...Proper.

[abigailhermina]

Hallo  all the brokies!

I am new here- but I have been  following this forum for cca 2 eyars.. It shows my deep addiction I guess..
But back to the topics- for me is Ennis  gay and ever was..Maybe their days on Brokeback could be the type of " surrogate sexual behavior"- two boys , unexpirienced, about 20 years aod , on the top of their sexual needs, confused atc.. but in the moment of meeting after 4 years.- its obvious- Ennis prefers sex vith Jack although he as acces to "hetero" sex.. and there was always LOVE between this two boys, its undeniable..:-))
So- for me is man, who is in love with another man, prefers sex with the men, seeks so to speak "spiritual" connection with another man- GAY
P.S. Excuse my English  I am not native-speaker..

[tpe]

Welcome abigailhermina , and thanks for the first post.  I personally tend to agree with what you said.

Wonderful exchanges here over the last few posts.  The question of consciousness and sexual identity is an intriguing one for me, because although I was aware early one (from personal experience), I have met people who claimed that they were not aware until much later.  The case of Ennis is sometimes a bit hard to read.  I guess one can go either way...  Whether Ennis was aware of such feelings since boyhood is certainly open to speculation.  For me, it is possible, but it is no more possible than he being unconsciously aware of it all.  But from personal experience, I would say that some level of awareness may have been there, even if it was unconsciously being suppressed.

[orangetruck]

Welcome abigailhermina , and thanks for the first post.  I personally tend to agree with what you said.

Wonderful exchanges here over the last few posts.  The question of consciousness and sexual identity is an intriguing one for me, because although I was aware early one (from personal experience), I have met people who claimed that they were not aware until much later.  The case of Ennis is sometimes a bit hard to read.  I guess one can go either way...  Whether Ennis was aware of such feelings since boyhood is certainly open to speculation.  For me, it is possible, but it is no more possible than he being unconsciously aware of it all.  But from personal experience, I would say that some level of awareness may have been there, even if it was unconsciously being suppressed.

I do think this post can play Libra to the whole thread. Where to draw the line between aware/unaware is based on just how aware one has become to their personal life and how aware one is that that life is not everyone else's. I am of the group that's known since a very early age, of his own sexuality. What didn't hit me was the 'difference' until later around the age of 10. I'm trying not to stray from the topic of Ennis' sexuality, so I'll stop. But certainly the notion of his unidentified (or as I like to think of it, unwelcomed) sexual nature is just as ticklish as that of his door having been opened (maybe clumsily) earlier on. Viewer discretion applies, but we can't really help that: this is media.

There are people like myself believing sexuality is genetic, and there are others. 

[fonsucu]

It´s difficult to imagine what the former developments of a fictional character might or might not be, but alas, justified enough entrapped as we are in BBM meandering emotions. Neither story nor script give many details. Indeed just a couple for each. None of them got on well with his father. Can that fact have anything to do with the development of homosexuality? Or would the writer believe so?

[tpe]

I do think this post can play Libra to the whole thread. Where to draw the line between aware/unaware is based on just how aware one has become to their personal life and how aware one is that that life is not everyone else's. I am of the group that's known since a very early age, of his own sexuality. What didn't hit me was the 'difference' until later around the age of 10. I'm trying not to stray from the topic of Ennis' sexuality, so I'll stop. But certainly the notion of his unidentified (or as I like to think of it, unwelcomed) sexual nature is just as ticklish as that of his door having been opened (maybe clumsily) earlier on. Viewer discretion applies, but we can't really help that: this is media.

There are people like myself believing sexuality is genetic, and there are others. 

It´s difficult to imagine what the former developments of a fictional character might or might not be, but alas, justified enough entrapped as we are in BBM meandering emotions. Neither story nor script give many details. Indeed just a couple for each. None of them got on well with his father. Can that fact have anything to do with the development of homosexuality? Or would the writer believe so?

It is indeed difficult to acertain in the case of fiction, and as OT said, viewer discretion applies.  We usually see what we want or see what resoanted with our own experiences and motivations, if not our sexuality.

I can't really say anything definite about one of those classic notions on the development of homosexuality: the lack of a father figure.  Surely, there must be an element of truth in all this, but how much on an individual basis is hard to grasp...

[Brokeback adoration]

To me, it had actually always been very clear, that NON of the guys - Neither Jack or Ennis are gay.
Well, that is until, they find each other, of course. But still, even then I don't look at them at completely gay. I think, that Ennis is in love with Jack, and Jack is in love with Ennis - Non of them is in love with the men sex in general, if you know what I mean.

Ennis seems like a person, who is just starting to figure himself out. While Jack might have explored for a while - Even though you get clear signals that he is gay, I am pretty sure, he was never gay until he met Ennis.

Like Jake Gyllenhaal expresses it himself "i think the story is about two straight guys, who find each other in some way." They are fascinated of each other and bond - I do think, that they fall in love. It's clear to see, that Jack is fascinated of Ennis right from the beginning, but that does not mean, he is gay.

After the two of them part, Ennis never get a thing going with another guy - And yes, Jack on the other hand does. But the reasons why he starts to look at other men that way is that he misses Ennis. And when he can't have Ennis, maybe it's better to get close with someone who reminds him more of Ennis, which clearly an man does more than a woman.
I'm not saying that the experience with Ennis didn't made Jack gay - It might have did. But I've never doubted the fact, that before the two of them met, neither of them was gay.

Anyway, the point about this post is the fact, that I actually find it kind of ironic, that this movie is known as the "gay-cowboy" movie. Cause personally I don't think, the gay-part plays a big role at all. "Love is a force of nature" - Love is stronger than anything the society might expect from you. It does not matter what sex you are - Its about that connection between two people, that makes them fall in love.

[Matt Nasty]

To me, it had actually always been very clear, that NON of the guys - Neither Jack or Ennis are gay.
Well, that is until, they find each other, of course. But still, even then I don't look at them at completely gay. I think, that Ennis is in love with Jack, and Jack is in love with Ennis - Non of them is in love with the men sex in general, if you know what I mean.

Ennis seems like a person, who is just starting to figure himself out. While Jack might have explored for a while - Even though you get clear signals that he is gay, I am pretty sure, he was never gay until he met Ennis.

Like Jake Gyllenhaal expresses it himself "i think the story is about two straight guys, who find each other in some way." They are fascinated of each other and bond - I do think, that they fall in love. It's clear to see, that Jack is fascinated of Ennis right from the beginning, but that does not mean, he is gay.

After the two of them part, Ennis never get a thing going with another guy - And yes, Jack on the other hand does. But the reasons why he starts to look at other men that way is that he misses Ennis. And when he can't have Ennis, maybe it's better to get close with someone who reminds him more of Ennis, which clearly an man does more than a woman.
I'm not saying that the experience with Ennis didn't made Jack gay - It might have did. But I've never doubted the fact, that before the two of them met, neither of them was gay.

Anyway, the point about this post is the fact, that I actually find it kind of ironic, that this movie is known as the "gay-cowboy" movie. Cause personally I don't think, the gay-part plays a big role at all. "Love is a force of nature" - Love is stronger than anything the society might expect from you. It does not matter what sex you are - Its about that connection between two people, that makes them fall in love.

well im a bit wither way on this but over time ove came to beleive more and more that jack and ennis are gay, sure its impossible to tell, and the could be bo or even straight who knows? but i jsut feel not in my heart with that gut instinct they are gay... this is afterall the way annie proloux intended them she dubbed Ennis a "homophobic gay"...

[Brokeback adoration]

well im a bit wither way on this but over time ove came to beleive more and more that jack and ennis are gay, sure its impossible to tell, and the could be bo or even straight who knows? but i jsut feel not in my heart with that gut instinct they are gay... this is afterall the way annie proloux intended them she dubbed Ennis a "homophobic gay"...

I would love to read the book - I've gotten the idea from many of you, that it really changes your point of view and might make you understand the movie better. It's just such a shame, that it's nowhere to be found in a land like Denmark. I can't get in anywhere, even though I really want to. 

[ksxks]

I would love to read the book - I've gotten the idea from many of you, that it really changes your point of view and might make you understand the movie better. It's just such a shame, that it's nowhere to be found in a land like Denmark. I can't get in anywhere, even though I really want to. 

A big welcome, brokeback adoration!  I'm hoping you can get a copy of the book, and you will have even deeper feelings for this story.

kathy

[tpe]

To me, it had actually always been very clear, that NON of the guys - Neither Jack or Ennis are gay.
Well, that is until, they find each other, of course. But still, even then I don't look at them at completely gay. I think, that Ennis is in love with Jack, and Jack is in love with Ennis - Non of them is in love with the men sex in general, if you know what I mean.

Ennis seems like a person, who is just starting to figure himself out. While Jack might have explored for a while - Even though you get clear signals that he is gay, I am pretty sure, he was never gay until he met Ennis.

Like Jake Gyllenhaal expresses it himself "i think the story is about two straight guys, who find each other in some way." They are fascinated of each other and bond - I do think, that they fall in love. It's clear to see, that Jack is fascinated of Ennis right from the beginning, but that does not mean, he is gay.

After the two of them part, Ennis never get a thing going with another guy - And yes, Jack on the other hand does. But the reasons why he starts to look at other men that way is that he misses Ennis. And when he can't have Ennis, maybe it's better to get close with someone who reminds him more of Ennis, which clearly an man does more than a woman.
I'm not saying that the experience with Ennis didn't made Jack gay - It might have did. But I've never doubted the fact, that before the two of them met, neither of them was gay.

Anyway, the point about this post is the fact, that I actually find it kind of ironic, that this movie is known as the "gay-cowboy" movie. Cause personally I don't think, the gay-part plays a big role at all. "Love is a force of nature" - Love is stronger than anything the society might expect from you. It does not matter what sex you are - Its about that connection between two people, that makes them fall in love.

Welcome, Brokeback adoration.

As you can see by the length opf this thread, the answer is far from clear-cut -- at least for those of us here.  I hold a different opinion, in fact.  But I do acknowledge that all this is open to interpretation.  Even Jake was not perfectly clear-cut in his response.  As I had posted elsewhere, here is the relevant passage once more:

AboutFilm: You said you thought about whether Heath could pull it off. Did you ever question yourself, and what did you question in yourself?

Gyllenhaal: I always had an argument with Ang—not an argument, but he was always like, “Jack has had more experiences with guys before, and he's more gay of the two of them.” And I was like, “Wow, am I really going to be able to be the one who brings [Heath] into this, and comforts him somehow?” I'm just as skeptical of it also, so how am I going to emotionally go there? Like their scene in the tent where I'm like, “Come in here.” I know what I'm doing, but I have no idea what I'm doing with this, you know what I mean? I'm the one who initiates these sexual encounters—which to me was totally foreign. It's like, “How do you do this? Does it look right?” And, yeah, I consider it a real movement towards something to go to a place where you're like, “Oh, this is about intimacy between two people.” You're going to have to put [the other stuff] out of your mind, and I had doubts from the beginning whether that was going to work. I think it surprises people when I say, “I think these two guys are straight, and yet they find each other somewhere.” People are like, “What's that mean?” And I'm like, “I don't really know. I just think that we're both servicing a story that is so much bigger than both of us and everybody involved.”

[orangetruck]

Welcome, Brokeback adoration.

As you can see by the length opf this thread, the answer is far from clear-cut -- at least for those of us here.  I hold a different opinion, in fact.  But I do acknowledge that all this is open to interpretation.  Even Jake was not perfectly clear-cut in his response.  As I had posted elsewhere, here is the relevant passage once more:

AboutFilm: You said you thought about whether Heath could pull it off. Did you ever question yourself, and what did you question in yourself?

Gyllenhaal: I always had an argument with Ang—not an argument, but he was always like, “Jack has had more experiences with guys before, and he's more gay of the two of them.” And I was like, “Wow, am I really going to be able to be the one who brings [Heath] into this, and comforts him somehow?” I'm just as skeptical of it also, so how am I going to emotionally go there? Like their scene in the tent where I'm like, “Come in here.” I know what I'm doing, but I have no idea what I'm doing with this, you know what I mean? I'm the one who initiates these sexual encounters—which to me was totally foreign. It's like, “How do you do this? Does it look right?” And, yeah, I consider it a real movement towards something to go to a place where you're like, “Oh, this is about intimacy between two people.” You're going to have to put [the other stuff] out of your mind, and I had doubts from the beginning whether that was going to work. I think it surprises people when I say, “I think these two guys are straight, and yet they find each other somewhere.” People are like, “What's that mean?” And I'm like, “I don't really know. I just think that we're both servicing a story that is so much bigger than both of us and everybody involved.”

I really like Jake's response. That was very well said. I love how he (sub)consciously buried just about every superficial mark leading up to fact that love is a force of nature. His mind fits beautifully in such handsome landscape. 

[aintfoolin]

I really like Jake's response. That was very well said. I love how he (sub)consciously buried just about every superficial mark leading up to fact that love is a force of nature. His mind fits beautifully in such handsome landscape. 

 I am suprised to learn that even Jake did'nt really know how to approach this  thing so I feel he just approached it from the standpoint of  Two people who "found each other somewhere". Two people who just felt an unexplained, but undeniable intimacy towards each other. No lables or manuels needed. Like nature, sometimes it can't be understood, it's just there, an  uncontrolled, symphony of events culminating in a beautiful thing called love.

Sometimes I feel love sort of snuck up on both these guys, neither really being concious of what it was, when or how it happened. Think it was a surprise  to both in SNIT, when Ennis entered . I felt he was seeking confirmation from Jack that something had happened to them, him being the one most afraid to embrace love. Jack was the one who initiated sex in FNIT, but as intense as this was, it was about feelings first.  Both of them felt it , but neither could explain it. Gay or straight? What is love? who can explain the unexplainable.? Certainly not them. It's for bigger minds than ours.MO.