Author Topic: "BBM: Refuge and Prison" (Read 15454 times)

LuvJackNasty · « **on:** Dec 20, 2006, 07:54 PM »

I read this write up by by blackhatnbeard on Wranglers (fan fic site) some may agree or disagree but that's the nature of these discussions

. I'm putting the link (http://www.ratdiary.com/?p=81) to the whole write up because I didn't want to post the whole thing- this part in particular got me thinking in a different way:

And, this time, I was more aware of setting and the character of the spaces around the characters. Proulx turns the notion of the gay ghetto inside out by setting scenes of homosexual relationship in limitless pristine vistas. It is as if all God’s creation is complicit in their love; they must hide from society but find a home in nature. Ang Lee expands visually on this theme by placing the characters in small rooms and tight frames when living their “real lives” with wives and children. By contrast, when they are together in the mountains they are often placed in wide shots of astonishing beauty — space literally opens up for them and their story plays out on a stage of operatic grandeur. But it is not an untroubled or simple metaphor — beneficent nature versus cruel society. For Ennis, the mountain is a place where he can be the man he wants to be away from the judging eyes of others, but for Jack it is a recurring reminder of the terrible constraints on their lives. Society intrudes to taint the pristine wilderness. By the time of their last scene together, Jack has come to hate the mountain. They each project onto the landscape what they each bring to it. For Ennis, refuge; for Jack, prison. :\'(

Reading that I could hear Jack screaming "What we got now is Brokeback Mountain". I had always taken that to mean that they were chasing the ghosts of that perfect summer of '63- a place that they would never return to -figuratively and literally. After reading this my mind started going in another direction. I started thinking of how the mountains, vast as they are, were nothing but that tiny prison cell for Jack- a reminder that their sweet life only existed in that setting, a reminder of what was, what could have been and what never came to be. Going back to the mountains almost seems like pouring salt on the wound so to speak. It also made me think of Jack's comment about the short leash Ennis keeps him on. For Ennis, yes it is a place for him to be free- no one peeking in on them, safe away from the tire irons, to breathe a few times a year without having to hide and pretend. Jack had to feel like a kept man. "Everything's built on that, it's all we got..." again I always took that to mean that everything goes back to that summer. But now my mind strays over to how they started out in seclusion and that's how it always be with them- secluded- a place where Jack's dreams began and ended.

tpe · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 21, 2006, 08:29 AM »

Thanks LJN for posting this. I must admit that I was taken aback by the thought that Jack would consider the Mountain as a prison. And yet, I must admit that the thought is by no means far-fetched. Jack's words in the final meeting indeed lends support to this idea. IN the end, the Mountain has become an impediment to "moving on to the next level", so to speak. He complains bitterly that after almost 20 years, the only thing they have is Brokeback Mountain. What should have been a springing board to a life of love has indeed become a prison. For although the Mountain has kept their love alive and intact for almost 2 decades, the love had not gone very far beyond it.

This is I think the idea behind the idea of the Mountain as a prison. For in the end, there is really a fine line that divides a refuge from a prison, no? It is a refuge if you feel that it encloses and nurtures the heart. It is a prison when your heart is almost ready to burst the walls asunder.

welshwitch · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 21, 2006, 08:47 AM »

It's certainly a different way at looking at Nature from that of the Romantics, who saw it as the place of ultimate freedom, a force for good, nurturuing and teaching man. But the mountain doesn't do that - it gives them a place to be alone, but also imposes on them all the harshness of existing in close proximity with nature - then of course the threatened strom, the ultimate force of nature, forces them away and back to reality.

Their real lives are very much more improsoned than thiose they lead ion the mountain in terms of emotional freedom - Jack lives a life misrepresenting himslef to Lureen and the newsomes, while Ennis, driven my his fears, moves further and further into himslef and away from human contact. But in a sense both situations are constructed by themselves; the mountain at least offers them freedom, which in the end Ennis is too afraid to take and Jack feels forced to allow Ennis to dictate the terms of his life, thus becoming imprisoned by Ennis's fears as much as Ennis is.

tpe · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 21, 2006, 11:09 AM »

Wonderful point, WW. A life of misrepresentation and pretense -- that was how it developed with Jack over the years. He wanted out of it, but couldn't. That's why for him, BBM could very well have signified imprisonment.

I am reminded of the 2 books of Proust's Recherche: LA PRISONNIÈRE, and ALBERTINE DISPARUE. There is a striking parallel between the love of Jack for Ennis and the love of the Narrator/Proust for Albertine/Alfred. The Dozy embrace was Jack's equivalent of LE TEMPS RETROUVÉ. As with Jack, Proust was free only in death.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 23, 2006, 08:01 PM »

Great posts

I never looked at it quite that way WW- Jack becoming imprisoned by Ennis's fears. I knew he allowed Ennis to call the shots- which I believe to be from a fear a losing Ennis- but never looked at it in a transference kind of way.

Thomas- I liked what you said about the mountain and how it should have been a springboard. Yes there is a fine line because even though they never returned to Brokeback itself that is where it all started and I really think Jack spent his short life trying to get that back. It reminded me of the SS- "And maybe he thought they'd never got much farther than that"- Proulx For as much time has passed everything with them seemed to stand still-not sure if I am wording that correctly.

They are confined in their "real lives" not fully living but are the escapes to the mountains any less confined? Yes they can breathe, they can be together and they can be who they really are- in that sense it almost seems like a release from their real prisons but yet they can only be that way hidden away from the world. I realize the time and society dictated the need to be away from prying eyes and I guess it is better to be "imprisoned" or "confined" together than to be stuck in their "real lives". I don't even know what I am trying to say-lol I do see the mountain as more of a refuge than a prison- something is better than nothing.

tpe · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 09:55 AM »

I too have always thought of the Mountain as more of a refuge. But I must admit that the subject of this thread has made me think again and consider the other possibility. In many ways, it is like seeing opposite sides of the same coin. The truth of one does not negate the truth of the other. And in a sense, there is no real contradiction in perceiving ht emountain as both simultaneously. I would think that for Jack, it was a duality that became harder and harder to bear.

We must remember that in the Dozy Embrace, it is the older Jack who looks back and remembers. That it did not go much further than that can be understood a double-edged. On one hand, the elder Jack reminds himself that he did not care. On the other hand, the elder Jack also saw the possibility that it could have gone further.

To have Ennis, but not have enough of him -- that is Jack's dilemma. The certainty that he had Ennis's love was a refuge. The fate of never seeing that love go further was his prison.

froggy · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 10:25 AM »

Ohhhhhh I had never seen it in that way either.

To me, when they mention Brokeback Mountain it means, their place, their sotry, their refuge at some point too.
Happy times.

But just like you, I guess I could see it in a different light. This is amazing, a year + later and I am amazed at all the things we still come up with.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 12:33 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Dec 26, 2006, 09:55 AM

The certainty that he had Ennis's love was a refuge. The fate of never seeing that love go further was his prison.

Well said! :\'(

Re: the write-up: I don't think Jack had come to hate the mountain- he wouldn't have requested that his ashes be scattered there. But I do see it having that double edged sword feeling for him- a reminder of what he has and doesn't have all at the same time.

tpe · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 01:40 PM »

Quote from: Froggy on Dec 26, 2006, 10:25 AM

Ohhhhhh I had never seen it in that way either.

To me, when they mention Brokeback Mountain it means, their place, their sotry, their refuge at some point too.
Happy times.

But just like you, I guess I could see it in a different light. This is amazing, a year + later and I am amazed at all the things we still come up with.

It's amazing isn't it?

I suspect we had this idea in the back of our minds all along, and seeing it given explicitly here involved more of a surprised recognition...

tpe · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 01:42 PM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Dec 26, 2006, 12:33 PM

Re: the write-up: I don't think Jack had come to hate the mountain- he wouldn't have requested that his ashes be scattered there. But I do see it having that double edged sword feeling for him- a reminder of what he has and doesn't have all at the same time.

Good point, LJN. If BBM were a prison, then he certainly did not harbour hate for it. I think he realized that he would never be free of it. I don't think he ever wanted that, anyway...

welshwitch · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 02:30 PM »

I suppose you can also see the mountain as a dream-scape, attainable only partially and briefly before reality wakes one up, or like the American Dream, shimmering just out of reach, a mirage, tantalizing with its promise but ultimately impossible to reach, and thus in a sense of prison of hope, endeavor,aspiration, but doomed never to be achieved.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 05:58 PM »

Well said WW.

It's as if Jack kept scaling that mountain but he was never able to reach the summit.

Thomas- No I don't think he wanted to be free of it-to me it seems like that was the only place in his life where he could be Jack- the real Jack. Ennis fell in love with him there- he wasn't the "could never measure up son/son in law", or the rodeo F-up, etc. I think that was one of the few times (if not the only time) that he was accepted as he was.

Rønnaug · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 06:46 PM »

Never thiught of it this way, but it makes so much sense... I have always thought of Jacks angry remarks the same way as you LJN, the first summer being theirs, but for Jack to see it as a constraint as opposed to Ennis seeing it as a safe haven... seems right... piece of the puzzle fell into place with that thought...

gonna watch that scene again tomorrow and think of it that way, see if I see it differently

makes me more sad for Jack than I have been before though... and somewhat more angry at Ennis for not seeing it... or more sorry for Ennis for not being ABLE to see it ( due to heritage and upbringnign and all that)

tpe · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 26, 2006, 06:51 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Dec 26, 2006, 02:30 PM

I suppose you can also see the mountain as a dream-scape, attainable only partially and briefly before reality wakes one up, or like the American Dream, shimmering just out of reach, a mirage, tantalizing with its promise but ultimately impossible to reach, and thus in a sense of prison of hope, endeavor,aspiration, but doomed never to be achieved.

Akin to Citizen Kane's "Rosebud" perhaps?

A yearning for a more simple time, when nothing no longer satisfies the soul and everything seems unattainable...

froggy · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 27, 2006, 01:37 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Dec 26, 2006, 01:40 PM

I suspect we had this idea in the back of our minds all along, and seeing it given explicitly here involved more of a surprised recognition...

probably, but now, it makes me sadder for Jack.
I said once that everytime I cried during the viewing were for or because of Jack, next time I watch the "Brokeback Mountain" scene , i'll think about it.

tpe · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 27, 2006, 02:03 PM »

If this is any consolation, I think that love many times acts like a proson, restraining us and binding us in ways that can be both painful and self-destructive. Love can be very sad. But we go on loving, no? Without it, we can't really begin to live. I think Jack wouldn't have regretted their time in Brokeback Mountain.

froggy · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 27, 2006, 02:08 PM »

yes, love can be a prison, same as love blinds us sometimes.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 27, 2006, 08:50 PM »

Beautifully said Thomas. I don't think Jack regretted their time in BBM. They were both able to love despite the painful seperations and unfulfilled dreams. Today my mind went wandering (as it often does) and it starting to focus on Ennis's prison. I was making my tea in the cafeteria (great place to start tearing up-lol) and my mind flashed on Ennis when he says "I just can't stand this anymore Jack". I think Ennis can compartmentalize whereas Jack cannot but even so Jack spoke the truth that Ennis knew deep down inside. Ennis is in a self imposed prison, and I truly believe he thought he was protecting Jack by not having that sweet life, but the reality that he had never given their love the wings to fly hit him hard- his worlds collided so to speak- the Ennis that enjoyed the refuge and freedom of BBM was confronted by seeing what fearful Ennis had done to Jack.

tpe · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 08:14 AM »

Thanks LJN. And as Froggy had said, love blinds as much as it binds. WE sometimes choose NOT to see any way out of it. People sometimes torture ourselves for a love that hurts, to the astonishment of their friends who (from the outside vantage point) think that all that needs to be done is to open ones eyes and walk away. Well, in most cases, it is not that easy to just "see" and walk away, because people deliberately choose NOT to see and walk away. That is why love is likened to madness. It is certainly not rational.

For Jack, it may have been a prison without locks and bars -- a prison he could have walked out of if he had chosen to. He didn't. He couldn't. He had no desire to do so. Even to the very end, when his hope had disappeared, I believe that he remained a prisoner to that love.

welshwitch · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 12:50 PM »

The Metaphysicals saw the world as a prison from which the soul was only too eager to escape. From that perspective, Jack has escaped while Ennis remains imprisoned.

tpe · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 03:39 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Dec 28, 2006, 12:50 PM

The Metaphysicals saw the world as a prison from which the sould was only too eager to escape. From that perspective, Jack has escaped while Ennis remains imprisoned.

In the end, most certainly.

If we are to read added meaning into the words of the short story, we can surmise that Ennis's world had collapsed to his closet, which contains all that remains of the BBM's power.

welshwitch · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 04:49 PM »

Infinite riches in a little room?

And the closet, in which he hid, has become a refuge.

tpe · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 28, 2006, 04:56 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Dec 28, 2006, 04:49 PM

Infinite riches in a little room?

And the closet, in which he hid, has become a refuge.

Infinite sorrows in a closet.

Sprague Dawley · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 10:52 AM »

Hi -- I wrote the piece mentioned at the start of this thread and have been peeking in on your discussion. Some very touching and insightful comments that have made me see that I overstated Jack's anger in his last scene with Ennis. As LuvJackNasty (great handle, btw) said, Jack wouldn't have asked his ashed spread on the Mountain if he hated it. You are so right. He was angry at the limits imposed on them that he identified with their brief sojourns. I'll update my essay to reflect this and also provide a link to your site.

Thanks much.

tpe · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 11:05 AM »

Sprague Dawley, we here must be the ones who should thank you. Essays like yours truly enrich our discussion.

And welcome to this forum.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 12:31 PM »

Hi and Welcome Sprague Dawley

As TPE said- we should be thanking you for giving us another way to think about something. That is why I enjoy these discussions. I do think Jack was very angry during that final confrontation which prompted him to let loose on Ennis

Sprague Dawley · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 08:47 PM »

Thanks for the warm welcome to a friendly place. I left a comment on the forum topic about whether Ennis (and Jack) were "gay". It's an important question for a culture like ours that's grappling with how to make sense of love like that expressed in BBM.

Congrats on maintaining such a vibrant and productive forum. Could Annie Proulx have ever imagined what would grow from the seed she planted?

aintfoolin · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 29, 2006, 10:43 PM »

It is a fine article and very facinating for me to explore. It is a simple question as stated earlier in that thread ("Was Ennis Gay?), but invites many complex and complicated answers from many points of view. I still don't know for sure , but I am sure that Ennis loved Jack Twist very deeply.
Jack expected much more progress in the relationship by the last time they met. To him , in my opinion, BBM was a beginning , the place where they established and nurtued their love . Jack expected the affair to move to a more permanent phase, asking Ennis to set up a ranching operation with him. He was prepared to give up everything including his marriage for it. Caught between the two relationships, he must have felt trapped in either situation, having his life on hold for 20 years . What a shame. Throw in Randall and the whole damn thing becomes overwhelming for Jack. Ennis should have sh-t or gotten off the pot and no matter which option he chose for him and Jack it would have set Jack free to move on with his life with or without him. Jack needed answers. So in a way BBM in it's majesty and importance to Jack was both a prison and a refuge at the same time. This is MHO.

jerasjr · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 30, 2006, 09:40 AM »

As with so many topics, I keep going back to the basic premise that our boys were very simple unsophisticated people. From our advantage of time and advances in emotional/psychological understanding we can explore their makeup and motivations. Do not know that they would have thought in terms of refuge and/or prison, but of simply making an untenable situation better - we know what Jack wants, but do not know if Ennis ever did. But that is what makes the story itself so powerful because we simply do not know.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 31, 2006, 12:45 AM »

In my opinion I think Ennis wanted what Jack wanted, to have that ranch together I think he wanted it as much.but he just could'nt face what his culture and society in general would throw at him . He was too afraid to weather that storm. He was taking the easy and safe route about it. And as long as Jack let him do this, nothing was going to change. At the last meeting Jack finally let Ennis know that he had some responsibility in the relationship not moving to a more permanant level. ("It's cause of you I'm like this")but it does'nt IMO excuse 20 years of indecision on his part. Jack had a plan in place. Ennis was a major part of it and he could'nt carry it out without some major input from Ennis , namely saying yes we'll give it a shot......together. Even if it meant them against the world.I beleive this is what Jack wanted A chance.MHO