Topic: Why No SAG Awards for BBM?

[frenchcda]

Brokeback Mountain and cast no honor at the SAG Awards!
  Not a single awards was given out to BBM cast in any category nor for the best movie, it went to " Crash " quite appropriated for the way I feel about the SAG, it totally boggled my mind I don't get it, if it is their peer that votes for the honors, well they seems to diss what the critics have put out there since BBM came out, it kinda tells me that they are really living in some LA LA Land, go figure? :'( :'(

[coguaro]

Can somebody explain to me how is it possible that BBM fail like this in SAG awards?

thank you
coguaro

[rabjr1]

Actors - go figure.

One has to look at the politics of any group to find the reasons we want.  Losing out on the SAG is disappointing however aren't we all going into these awards with our own bias?  PSH is an outstanding actor (Flawless) and deserves resognition.  There might be a bias AGAINST HL  that we are not aware of.  We want this film to win for PERSONAL reasons and not (maybe - my opioion) for artistic/ etc reasons.

Ebert and Ropert (FAt Man and Little Boy)  didn't rate BBM #1 in their top ten list.

"Crash" was an esemble piece and as such I would say deserves it more than BBM (so shoot me)  "Crash" had a larger cast with excellent performances from each.  Ensemble for BBM might have to have included the sheep.

What's with "ensemble" anyways?

[tpe]

Actors - go figure.

One has to look at the politics of any group to find the reasons we want.  Losing out on the SAG is disappointing however aren't we all going into these awards with our own bias?  PSH is an outstanding actor (Flawless) and deserves resognition.  There might be a bias AGAINST HL  that we are not aware of.  We want this film to win for PERSONAL reasons and not (maybe - my opioion) for artistic/ etc reasons.

Ebert and Ropert (FAt Man and Little Boy)  didn't rate BBM #1 in their top ten list.

"Crash" was an esemble piece and as such I would say deserves it more than BBM (so shoot me)  "Crash" had a larger cast with excellent performances from each.  Ensemble for BBM might have to have included the sheep.

What's with "ensemble" anyways?

Hello rabjr1.  I respect your opinion on this.  But I continue to insist that BBM was superior to Crash in terms of literary, artistic, and acting merit.

As I said in another post, Capote was briliantly acted, but the acting struck me as facile and pure surface brilliance.  It is easy to build up a character when there are hundreds of recordings, tapes,and accounts of the true Capote. Ledger had to create the character of Ennis on his own.

Hoffman certainly portrayed a great American writer who was gay.  But the portrayal of artists and idiosycratic  characters who are gay is not that groundbreaking anymore.  But to portray gay/bisexual characters as REAL people!  SAG still has to figure this one out.  As I said in one of my posts, I am sure a number of the actors who voted against BBM would not have considered taking on the roles that Ledger and Gyllenhaal built up so magnificently -- because of their concern that the roles would ruin their careers.  Was this not the initial reaction circulating in Hollywood when BBM was cast back in 2003-2004?  It strikes me as a bit hypocritical -- and perhaps a tinge of guilt or envy at something they did not have the courage to do.

I am from Chicago, and I have learned not to take the local duo Ebert and Ropert that seriously these days...

[Toadily]

Crash is not a better film than Brokeback at all.  But Ebert is entitled to his taste.

[Toadily]

To be honest, the only surprise for me was Jake.  I thought he would win, I saw Cinderella Man and
Paul was great but it was a one note thing for me, Jake had to play ages and be sexually agressive with a man
on screen (not like its done a lot)  so that one surprised me.I'll bet it was close voting guys.

[ethan]

To be honest, the only surprise for me was Jake.  I thought he would win, I saw Cinderella Man and
Paul was great but it was a one note thing for me, Jake had to play ages and be sexually agressive with a man
on screen (not like its done a lot)  so that one surprised me.I'll bet it was close voting guys.

I would think so. I have not seen any other movies at all nominated in every category so I can't compare. (I will watch it after the Oscar and rent them  :D).

I think it is close voting for BBM cast - Heath, Jake and Michelle and Best Ensemble - second place.  Winning would be great but for them, it has been quite an accomplishment for their performance. What other movies have made us to talk about in a forum only devoted to that movie? Not even many trophies or life achievement award can do.

[rabjr1]

tpe

Saw "C" only once so my eval. might need another viewing.

[Toadily]

I'm sort of over it now, I mean like Ethan said we just have high expectations for "our movie" and that doesn't mean there aren't other worthy performances and casts. 

I still feel certain it will win best film and director.  And it's not like Jake and Heath didn't get any else out of this     They are both the most sought after actors now.

[tpe]

To be honest, the only surprise for me was Jake.  I thought he would win, I saw Cinderella Man and
Paul was great but it was a one note thing for me, Jake had to play ages and be sexually agressive with a man
on screen (not like its done a lot)  so that one surprised me.I'll bet it was close voting guys.

I would think so. I have not seen any other movies at all nominated in every category so I can't compare. (I will watch it after the Oscar and rent them  :D).

I think it is close voting for BBM cast - Heath, Jake and Michelle and Best Ensemble - second place.  Winning would be great but for them, it has been quite an accomplishment for their performance. What other movies have made us to talk about in a forum only devoted to that movie? Not even many trophies or life achievement award can do.

ethan, I really appreciate you positive outlook.  But I am still mightily P*SSED at how SAG teated BBM.  The only comfort for me is that years from now when BBM becomes established as one of the 21st Century films to remember (and I DON'T doubt this a second), the SAG Awards 2006 will be known to posterity as a veritable dinner of Philistines.

[Toadily]

I don't know, there are just too many awards in my book.

You know Paul Giamotti didn't get an OScar nomination for Sideways so consider it Karma,
he really should have.

[tpe]

I don't know, there are just too many awards in my book.

You know Paul Giamotti didn't get an OScar nomination for Sideways so consider it Karma,
he really should have.

Toadily, I guess I am just irritated that the SAG Awards has now been interpreted by the media as a snub (or slap?) at BBM.  In a lot of ways, I feel like agreeing with this 100%.  Plus the awkward publicity of it all would soften critical resolve in the minds of some of the 'weak minded'.  Excuse this sarcasm, but even if the SAG awards does not really have a direct influence on the Oscars, it still makes it look like all the enormous critical parise and response to BBM is just smoke and mirrors.

[Toadily]

I don't know, there are just too many awards in my book.

You know Paul Giamotti didn't get an OScar nomination for Sideways so consider it Karma,
he really should have.

Toadily, I guess I am just irritated that the SAG Awards has now been interpreted by the media as a snub (or slap?) at BBM.  In a lot of ways, I feel like agreeing with this 100%.  Plus the awkward publicity of it all would soften critical resolve in the minds of some of the 'weak minded'.  Excuse this sarcasm, but even if the SAG awards does not really have a direct influence on the Oscars, it still makes it look like all the enormous critical parise and response to BBM is just smoke and mirrors.

That's an interesting point, although remember at the GG's the outcome was the same except they wouldn't even accept Jake as supporting actor.  And then Ang won, the movie and the screen play.  So we have to look at this that way too.

[tpe]

I don't know, there are just too many awards in my book.

You know Paul Giamotti didn't get an OScar nomination for Sideways so consider it Karma,
he really should have.

Toadily, I guess I am just irritated that the SAG Awards has now been interpreted by the media as a snub (or slap?) at BBM.  In a lot of ways, I feel like agreeing with this 100%.  Plus the awkward publicity of it all would soften critical resolve in the minds of some of the 'weak minded'.  Excuse this sarcasm, but even if the SAG awards does not really have a direct influence on the Oscars, it still makes it look like all the enormous critical parise and response to BBM is just smoke and mirrors.

That's an interesting point, although remember at the GG's the outcome was the same except they wouldn't even accept Jake as supporting actor.  And then Ang won, the movie and the screen play.  So we have to look at this that way too.

Toadily, if I understand you correctly here, you are saying that unequivocal praise for the acting on BBM has not been shared in the Industry; i.e., praise for the screenplay, the director, and the film overall is found aplenty, but not enough for the acting to bring home award winning performances.   

I agree that in the Industry's mind, the weakest part would be the young and inexperienced cast that was assembled for BBM.  In my opinion, the actors performed superbly -- in spite of their youth and inexperience.    I cannot help thinking that the Industry has convinced itself that the best they can do for these wonderful young actors at this time would be to give them nominations, but not to make them win.

In any case, it would currently seem an uphill battle for any of the BBM cast to win an Oscar.  We can only hope for the best, I guess.  This should be no hardship on our part, as I am sure most people in this forum need no convincing that Ledger, Gyllenhaal, Williams, and Hathaway are all deserving of the very best.

[Toadily]

I don't know, there are just too many awards in my book.

You know Paul Giamotti didn't get an OScar nomination for Sideways so consider it Karma,
he really should have.

Toadily, I guess I am just irritated that the SAG Awards has now been interpreted by the media as a snub (or slap?) at BBM.  In a lot of ways, I feel like agreeing with this 100%.  Plus the awkward publicity of it all would soften critical resolve in the minds of some of the 'weak minded'.  Excuse this sarcasm, but even if the SAG awards does not really have a direct influence on the Oscars, it still makes it look like all the enormous critical parise and response to BBM is just smoke and mirrors.

That's an interesting point, although remember at the GG's the outcome was the same except they wouldn't even accept Jake as supporting actor.  And then Ang won, the movie and the screen play.  So we have to look at this that way too.

Toadily, if I understand you correctly here, you are saying that unequivocal praise for the acting on BBM has not been shared in the Industry; i.e., praise for the screenplay, the director, and the film overall is found aplenty, but not enough for the acting to bring home award winning performances.   

I agree that in the Industry's mind, the weakest part would be the young and inexperienced cast that was assembled for BBM.  In my opinion, the actors performed superbly -- in spite of their youth and inexperience.    I cannot help thinking that the Industry has convinced itself that the best they can do for these wonderful young actors at this time would be to give them nominations, but not to make them win.

In any case, it would currently seem an uphill battle for any of the BBM cast to win an Oscar.  We can only hope for the best, I guess.  This should be no hardship on our part, as I am sure most people in this forum need no convincing that Ledger, Gyllenhaal, Williams, and Hathaway are all deserving of the very best.

I am just saying that you are talking about HIGHLY competitive catagories, and so I am saying that the praise is more than worthy there are just others that are doing great too.  And maybe partly due to their ages (Paul G and Philip) and the respect everyone has for those guys they might nudge out JAke and Heath.  That's all.  Everyone is duly impressed with both performances.  and they are getting the nominations, that's an honor itself let's not forget... I mean who DIDN'T get nominated... 

I guess I just think that we can't expect them to win everything.  We just can't, and that doesnt mean they are getting snubbed in my mind.  Voting is a weird process too, someone may cancel out another (think Gore and NAder) etc.

[Toadily]

TPE,

I do respect your opinion and reaction though, I don't mean to say I don't.  I just want to be sure we know how personalized this movie is for us and thus we are going to take
these awards shows too seriously, like they are our kids or something.  I mean, to put it into perspective, who remembers who won an academy award say 2 years ago...but we do remember some movie that gets to us like this one.  Famoulsy Ernest Borgnine won an academy award and then went on to do Television basically.

[tpe]

I am just saying that you are talking about HIGHLY competitive catagories, and so I am saying that the praise is more than worthy there are just others that are doing great too.  And maybe partly due to their ages (Paul G and Philip) and the respect everyone has for those guys they might nudge out JAke and Heath.  That's all.  Everyone is duly impressed with both performances.  and they are getting the nominations, that's an honor itself let's not forget... I mean who DIDN'T get nominated... 

Yes, I agree with this.  Especially the part I bold-faced.

Ledger is obviously a relative 'outsider'.  As for Gyllenhaal -- he is certainly a Hollywood insider, but I suspect that, with his family background, he has to deal with a lot of Hollywood insider politics that come with the territory.

I guess I just think that we can't expect them to win everything.  We just can't, and that doesnt mean they are getting snubbed in my mind.  Voting is a weird process too, someone may cancel out another (think Gore and NAder) etc.

I agree to a point.  Nominations are honors in their own right. But to give BBM the most nominations and then bestow zero wins is a bit much, IMO.  Indeed, the categories are very competitive, but Ledger (at the very least) was quite equal to any of his rivals --  certainly with Hoffman.  Both of us seem to agree that Gyllenhaal looked like he had a good chance (relative to the competition).  And Williams compensated in quality when her actually screen time was small compared to the others in her category -- and why not? --  the protagonists were two men!

[Toadily]

I am just saying that you are talking about HIGHLY competitive catagories, and so I am saying that the praise is more than worthy there are just others that are doing great too.  And maybe partly due to their ages (Paul G and Philip) and the respect everyone has for those guys they might nudge out JAke and Heath.  That's all.  Everyone is duly impressed with both performances.  and they are getting the nominations, that's an honor itself let's not forget... I mean who DIDN'T get nominated... 

Yes, I agree with this.  Especially the part I bold-faced.

Ledger is obviously a relative 'outsider'.  As for Gyllenhaal -- he is certainly a Hollywood insider, but I suspect that, with his family background, he has to deal with a lot of Hollywood insider politics that come with the territory.

I guess I just think that we can't expect them to win everything.  We just can't, and that doesnt mean they are getting snubbed in my mind.  Voting is a weird process too, someone may cancel out another (think Gore and NAder) etc.

I agree to a point.  Nominations are honors in their own right. But to give BBM the most nominations and then bestow zero wins is a bit much, IMO.  Indeed, the categories are very competitive, but Ledger (at the very least) was quite equal to any of his rivals --  certainly with Hoffman.  Both of us seem to agree that Gyllenhaal looked like he had a good chance (relative to the competition).  And Williams compensated in quality when her actually screen time was small compared to the others in her category -- and why not? --  the protagonists were two men!

I always remember too that Peter O'Toole never won an Oscar.  Nor Hitchcock.  So I kinda put it into perspective.

[tpe]

TPE,

I do respect your opinion and reaction though, I don't mean to say I don't.  I just want to be sure we know how personalized this movie is for us and thus we are going to take
these awards shows too seriously, like they are our kids or something.  I mean, to put it into perspective, who remembers who won an academy award say 2 years ago...but we do remember some movie that gets to us like this one.  Famoulsy Ernest Borgnine won an academy award and then went on to do Television basically.

Thanks.  In some sense, my reaction to all this is like seeing a favorite godson being bullied.  Nothing can change the high esteem I have for this movie, and I certainly don't want it subjected to any hint of ridicule or get shown in a bad light...

[Toadily]

TPE,

I do respect your opinion and reaction though, I don't mean to say I don't.  I just want to be sure we know how personalized this movie is for us and thus we are going to take
these awards shows too seriously, like they are our kids or something.  I mean, to put it into perspective, who remembers who won an academy award say 2 years ago...but we do remember some movie that gets to us like this one.  Famoulsy Ernest Borgnine won an academy award and then went on to do Television basically.

Thanks.  In some sense, my reaction to all this is like seeing a favorite godson being bullied.  Nothing can change the high esteem I have for this movie, and I certainly don't want it subjected to any hint of ridicule or get shown in a bad light...

I agree, but remember too Hollywood is probably a little freaked out, I mean this is a Focus film.  Their big budget films, like Kong,  didn't fare as well as expected adn then this little
low budget thing shows up and garners all the nominations...holy crap! I mean it's like an earth quake in a way.  So it's like showing up at cocktail party in tennis shoes and getting all the girls!

[tpe]

So it's like showing up at cocktail party in tennis shoes and getting all the girls!

...or all the guys. 

[Toadily]

So it's like showing up at cocktail party in tennis shoes and getting all the girls!

...or all the guys. 

Tee hee, there's that too. I mean remember Madonna called the movie "Shocking" this is stil a new thing here.

[*Froggy*]

tpe and Toadily..shall we leave you too alone...my my ...what a thread!!! LOL 

[tpe]

tpe and Toadily..shall we leave you too alone...my my ...what a thread!!! LOL 

Care to join?  A threesome, perhaps?

[*Froggy*]

tpe and Toadily..shall we leave you too alone...my my ...what a thread!!! LOL 

Care to join?  A threesome, perhaps?

nah...I'll leave you two alone...LOL!
Have fun

[ethan]

I love reading these posts (in a respectful way). I am more grateful to take the BBM experiences from the movie than how many awards it has received. It matters - to me they are only accessories.

I know I know..it is hard to swallow. Just like football teams all wanting to win Superbowl but there can be only one winner at a time. There are still a lot of chances.

We are actually talking about many years for these young cast. I think their opportunities are abundant. With awards like SAG even the Oscar, it is not only the performances. They are also influenced by politics, lobbying, and one poster even suggests that sometimes voters don't even see all the movies to cast their votes. And unless it is clear cut for the winner, it is even impossible to objectively evaluate the performance sometimes. (keep in mind I am no movie expert)

I always feel that it is so refreshing to see these young actors in this movie. Do they deserve something? Yes they do. You guys have already given them so much more than many other actors (like the guy whose name is PSH ) have received.

[*Froggy*]

I always feel that it is so refreshing to see these young actors in this movie. Do they deserve something? Yes they do. You guys have already given them so much more than many other actors (like the guy whose name is PSH ) have received.

PSH who? The PSH tha he can't even 'bloody' shave!!!!!!!!!! excuse my french!

[Toadily]

tpe and Toadily..shall we leave you too alone...my my ...what a thread!!! LOL 

Care to join?  A threesome, perhaps?

Hey I see it now  "ManyBacks Mountain" the story of three moderators who find love
despite societal rules.

[ethan]

ethan, I really appreciate you positive outlook.  But I am still mightily P*SSED at how SAG teated BBM.  The only comfort for me is that years from now when BBM becomes established as one of the 21st Century films to remember (and I DON'T doubt this a second), the SAG Awards 2006 will be known to posterity as a veritable dinner of Philistines.

You are welcome, tpe and you are right.

To tell you the truth, I already forgot some of the winners' names from last night and I was even typing their names in the live thread. And guess what we are still here talking about Brokeback Mountain and I am going to see it again (I hope) tomorrow after the Oscar nominations.

[Toadily]

I always feel that it is so refreshing to see these young actors in this movie. Do they deserve something? Yes they do. You guys have already given them so much more than many other actors (like the guy whose name is PSH ) have received.

PSH who? The PSH tha he can't even 'bloody' shave!!!!!!!!!! excuse my french!

Tee hee, we dont' like PSH now.  It's so funny...  it's like in the movie, I dont like
Randall, I mean he hits on our boy -