Topic: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying

[orangetruck]

Yes, perhaps it was too little too late, as they usually say.  Not too late for Ennis, thank God, but too later for Jack nonetheless. 

And yes, the primary feeling one gets is a sense of overwhelming statis, even though there is a hint of slight movement in the word "almost".

Besides, "almost" cound imply a step BACKWARD as much as a step forward...

 

[tpe]

I think so also.  If we'd had some kind of resolution shown then, it would have changed the tone of all that followed, one way or another.

kathy

Yes, it would have changed the tone significantly.

right.. the resolution is found in ennis hugging the shirts...
yes, i still suffer in that scene..

In a way, we can look at it as both a resolution and not a resolution.   We do get a feeling that Jack was present in that scene, but disembodied.

[tpe]

Fo' sho! 

All the more that I want the deleted scene.

Man oh man, just tonight I was thinking and got all curious again about the "Well since we're gonna start workin' together, I reckon we oughta start drinkin' together" scene. I really would like to see it. The others too, but...

There's something about mary! Ennis' crying face hidden in Jack's embrace to the ground. I think it'd be rich, as an extra scene, to see Ennis recover from one breakdown. To see what he radiates as his tears dry, maybe especially at this (st)age. It's kind of intriguing to me, given Ennis had never been confronted like this where the involuntary mechanisms, and feelings he didn't want to feel, but does, were no body's fault but his own. All the frantic voices in his head that had always kept him going straight as an arrow were silenced because none had ever even whispered the emotion he has in this scene. He must have felt vulnerable as roadkill, for it was brutally parallel his memory of Earl, so fear was a relevant emotion. He'd crumble some and eventually decide to let Jack know he was ready if not too late that season. This is what he does in the movie of course. Too late.

But this brings me to the absence of I-love-yous. Ennis let himself barely slide past FC. I think if the term 'love' had been mouthed, it would have been time to quit right then, and there'd be nothing in the future; it would have probably brought back his dad's voice, hand clenched into his left shoulder... around his neck. In a ditch. The end.

Holding onto Jack and forced to stare at love death.  :\'( - - IMO, FC is such a facet of their summer of '63 when, again, they had to part. Ennis breaks down but his face again fades from our view, in silhouette before we can really see his tears: what color were they. what did they say. do they tickle as they trickle; the transitional facial expression between his brokedown world and the virtual one he'd been taught, is what I'm left to ponder. Not necessary to the plot, I know, but it definitely stimulates my curiosity: Maybe it's only a few seconds, but what happens as Ennis' tears dry? What happens as he recovers, what's he do, and what is he feeling most prominently while he's in this transition, this momentary lapse?

Fear? Love?
... Lear? Fove?
 

For instance, we get a look at Jack in this fashion as he trucks it outta Ennis' place, crying, composing himself at a dark Mexico pitstop on the way to the straight life. Naturally, I wanna see Ennis drive down that road as well. He's generally a very sufficiently animated character. So we only need a couple more seconds!
                                                          *COUGHdirectorscutCOUGH*   

The answers may be obvious according to the individual, but some of us want the (other) visual too! The little snippet of a clip where Ennis emotes us the answers! PLEASE - - THE DELETED SCENES! 
 

I feel the same way as far as the I-love-yous go.  The possibility of seeing Ennis recover from the breakdown intrigues me, although I am almost sure that he would have not used the word "love".  But putting the various scenarios/possibilities aside, it is even more intriguing that we are never told exactly how he recovers or how they parted.  For my part, I had assumed that he just stood up and drove away without saying another word -- he was probably so unused to being is such a position of vulnerability...

[orangetruck]

I feel the same way as far as the I-love-yous go.  The possibility of seeing Ennis recover from the breakdown intrigues me, although I am almost sure that he would have not used the word "love".  But putting the various scenarios/possibilities aside, it is even more intriguing that we are never told exactly how he recovers or how they parted.  For my part, I had assumed that he just stood up and drove away without saying another word -- he was probably so unused to being is such a position of vulnerability...

Yeah.

And by all means, the scenes that didn't make the cut are of lesser substance and maybe too abstract. But there's the curious part of me that can tolerate the distraction, and other times kind of need it. It's good not so much for story telling but creative purposes.

The deleted scene of them both in the truck? I've always been a little evoked by that glimpse of them. Especially by Ennis' blinking, morose look of denial or something. Maybe he was a couple blinks from a tear, but his mood seemed to say so much.

[tpe]

Yeah.

And by all means, the scenes that didn't make the cut are of lesser substance and maybe too abstract. But there's the curious part of me that can tolerate the distraction, and other times kind of need it. It's good not so much for story telling but creative purposes.

The deleted scene of them both in the truck? I've always been a little evoked by that glimpse of them. Especially by Ennis' blinking, morose look of denial or something. Maybe he was a couple blinks from a tear, but his mood seemed to say so much.

Same here, although waht you say about it here IS quite intrigueing.  I have never thought of it that way, although, thinking of it now, it is more than just plausible...

[ksxks]

Yes, perhaps it was too little too late, as they usually say.  Not too late for Ennis, thank God, but too later for Jack nonetheless. 

And yes, the primary feeling one gets is a sense of overwhelming statis, even though there is a hint of slight movement in the word "almost".

Besides, "almost" cound imply a step BACKWARD as much as a step forward...

That's what I thought, too.  They "torqued things almost to where they had been."  It doesn't say "back" to where things had been.  Was "where things had been" a good place, or not a good place?  We see the scene of them parting and Ennis only then telling Jack that he couldn't make it in August, from which point things went south, but we don't really know how it had been for them all week.  Maybe it was unbelievably wonderful...but even so, judging from their "confrontation," it seems that even though their time together might have been wonderful, the same situation still existed -- Ennis's "getting together every once in a while," not Jack's "sweet life together." 

Anyway...we have a slightly different sense from the story than from the movie, just because of that word "almost," which gave you some small hope, Thomas, but which didn't color my perceptions as much.  I mostly saw it as we saw it in the movie, and it was depressing...

kathy

[orangetruck]

That's what I thought, too.  They "torqued things almost to where they had been."  It doesn't say "back" to where things had been.  Was "where things had been" a good place, or not a good place?  We see the scene of them parting and Ennis only then telling Jack that he couldn't make it in August, from which point things went south, but we don't really know how it had been for them all week.  Maybe it was unbelievably wonderful...but even so, judging from their "confrontation," it seems that even though their time together might have been wonderful, the same situation still existed -- Ennis's "getting together every once in a while," not Jack's "sweet life together." 

Anyway...we have a slightly different sense from the story than from the movie, just because of that word "almost," which gave you some small hope, Thomas, but which didn't color my perceptions as much.  I mostly saw it as we saw it in the movie, and it was depressing...

kathy

I go mostly in the way that you did with this, Kathy. I did rather set me back.. to a place I'd been before with someone else. Nothing resolved. 

[tpe]

That's what I thought, too.  They "torqued things almost to where they had been."  It doesn't say "back" to where things had been.  Was "where things had been" a good place, or not a good place?  We see the scene of them parting and Ennis only then telling Jack that he couldn't make it in August, from which point things went south, but we don't really know how it had been for them all week.  Maybe it was unbelievably wonderful...but even so, judging from their "confrontation," it seems that even though their time together might have been wonderful, the same situation still existed -- Ennis's "getting together every once in a while," not Jack's "sweet life together." 

Anyway...we have a slightly different sense from the story than from the movie, just because of that word "almost," which gave you some small hope, Thomas, but which didn't color my perceptions as much.  I mostly saw it as we saw it in the movie, and it was depressing...

kathy

And it was all the more depressing because they had to contrast it with the Dozy Embrace.  IN the story, of course, this was meant to be a kind of consolation -- Jack's final valedictory.  But in the movie, it didn't exactly feel this way.  It only served to cast a stronger light on their current situation. 

Had they shown the Dozy embrace AFTER the final confrontation, perhaps it would have been more comforting.  As it is, we only get a sense of how hopeless the current situation was, and Jack's parting glance fills us with foreboding.

[tpe]

I go mostly in the way that you did with this, Kathy. I did rather set me back.. to a place I'd been before with someone else. Nothing resolved. 

But a beginning of the end, perhaps?

[orangetruck]

But a beginning of the end, perhaps?

If I were secure enough about the situation, I'd say yes. But I don't feel my experience is as cut and dry as the movie. Or rather, it's not as final as the movie. In ways that makes me very hopeful. But as my post is getting far more personal than relative, I will concur. Their love was to continue regardless of life or death..

[tpe]

If I were secure enough about the situation, I'd say yes. But I don't feel my experience is as cut and dry as the movie. Or rather, it's not as final as the movie. In ways that makes me very hopeful. But as my post is getting far more personal than relative, I will concur. Their love was to continue regardless of life or death..

But an end need not be that way.  The end of exile, perhaps?  I think here of O'Neill's Long Day's Journey Into Night.

[orangetruck]

But an end need not be that way.  The end of exile, perhaps?  I think here of O'Neill's Long Day's Journey Into Night.

The absence of the physical element sometimes bites my ass hard. I don't like to get stuck on it, though it sometimes happens.

By end of exile you do mean that there'd be no more leaving or losing the safe ground between Jack and Ennis? Something paradoxical like not having to fight to find that ground anymore because it's gone? I know I could have read into it wrong, but I still feel like smiling on this idea.

I find it elaborates on the idea of that separate peace, but then I still wonder how long it would take Ennis to either accept he could never physically love Jack again, or to believe Jack was just the stage before his discovery of something truer. Often I find my faith and the likelihood of Ennis' to be in constant limbo with each other.

One thing I find for certain is, and as a token of that immortality you mention, Ennis could at least always look in the closet to know how his heart (and Jack's) works.

[tpe]

The absence of the physical element sometimes bites my ass hard. I don't like to get stuck on it, though it sometimes happens.

By end of exile you do mean that there'd be no more leaving or losing the safe ground between Jack and Ennis? Something paradoxical like not having to fight to find that ground anymore because it's gone? I know I could have read into it wrong, but I still feel like smiling on this idea.

I find it elaborates on the idea of that separate peace, but then I still wonder how long it would take Ennis to either accept he could never physically love Jack again, or to believe Jack was just the stage before his discovery of something truer. Often I find my faith and the likelihood of Ennis' to be in constant limbo with each other.

One thing I find for certain is, and as a token of that immortality you mention, Ennis could at least always look in the closet to know how his heart (and Jack's) works.

Well, it is sort of like that, but more along the lines of not having to wander anymore, because you have found your home -- your center.  It doesn't matter if that center is something entirely disembodied.  Death does not rob us of a center.  That is I think what you mean about knowing a Heart.  It goes beyond the physical.

THis is what makes the SNIT so beautiful, for instance.  The sense of anchor is there, but it hovers above the embracing bodies -- almost like a winged spectator about to take flight.

[orangetruck]

Well, it is sort of like that, but more along the lines of not having to wander anymore, because you have found your home -- your center.  It doesn't matter if that center is something entirely disembodied.  Death does not rob us of a center.  That is I think what you mean about knowing a Heart.  It goes beyond the physical.

THis is what makes the SNIT so beautiful, for instance.  The sense of anchor is there, but it hovers above the embracing bodies -- almost like a winged spectator about to take flight.

Thanks for clarifying. I do get what you mean.

About knowing a heart. That is vague on my part, to be certain. In one fashion it's like simply remembering the heart by looking at its physical replica, so to speak, when it otherwise feels absence or empty: the two shirts. A reflection of his center.

"It goes beyond the physical"

I also like how you described SNIT. It's something just recalling how warm this scene initially made me feel. It was like being turned inside out. It was such a beautifully vulnerable experience. I sometimes feel the initial shock when SNIT and the last trailer scene come together in my mind.

[chameau]

It never uploaded correctly to livevideo    but it worked on Youtube...    Anyway, here you go, it's short but intense.    :\'(

[keren_b]

It's so gut wrenching. I'm glad (well, don't know if "glad" is the right word here) that we got a chance to see it, but I understand why they didn't include this bit in the movie. I know Ang made the decision but I believe Heath would've agreed with him - like Ang he believed that sometimes less is more, and kept his acting very subtle.

[orangetruck]

It's so gut wrenching. I'm glad (well, don't know if "glad" is the right word here) that we got a chance to see it, but I understand why they didn't include this bit in the movie. I know Ang made the decision but I believe Heath would've agreed with him - like Ang he believed that sometimes less is more, and kept his acting very subtle.

True 'nuff 

[tpe]

Thanks for clarifying. I do get what you mean.

About knowing a heart. That is vague on my part, to be certain. In one fashion it's like simply remembering the heart by looking at its physical replica, so to speak, when it otherwise feels absence or empty: the two shirts. A reflection of his center.

"It goes beyond the physical"

I also like how you described SNIT. It's something just recalling how warm this scene initially made me feel. It was like being turned inside out. It was such a beautifully vulnerable experience. I sometimes feel the initial shock when SNIT and the last trailer scene come together in my mind.

Thanks orangetruck.  It is not easy to know the Heart.


It is safe to say that in the scene in LC -- with Ennis breaking down -- we see a Heart exposed.  We cannot help but reach out and react without knowing too precisely why.  It is enough to know that the Heart goes beyond the self.

[tpe]

It never uploaded correctly to livevideo    but it worked on Youtube...    Anyway, here you go, it's short but intense.    :\'(

Thanks Cham.  I missed looking at this last Saturday.  I'll access it later after work...

[tpe]

It's so gut wrenching. I'm glad (well, don't know if "glad" is the right word here) that we got a chance to see it, but I understand why they didn't include this bit in the movie. I know Ang made the decision but I believe Heath would've agreed with him - like Ang he believed that sometimes less is more, and kept his acting very subtle.

I think so too, although I too am glad that we have to option to view this outside the definitive version.

[vedrana]

Even short, the deleted scene has deleted my mind now! It's heartbreaking to see Ennis falling apart when smells Jack's shirt. I always felt that the shirts were the final stroke for me, but now seeing him so sad, I am broken! 

[atalley]

I can't really see or hear the difference.

[chameau]

The cut part is maybe 2 or 3 seconds longer, Ennis crashes in a wall and burst into tears.

[atalley]

I'm a little surprised that they deleted that scene.  Maybe to make the "Jack, I swear" hit harder?

[chameau]

Maybe and, IMO, it shows the great respect Ang Lee had for the original story. He choose not to show too much and stick to the storyline.

[kitty]

Why in the HELL was this cut out?!



Just look at that...that's heartbreaking

[myprivatejack]

Yes,it's already in the correspondent thread...I don't know why they deleted it in the end...Maybe because of this; it would have been too heartbreaking...By the way,have you realised he says "I love you"?.

[kitty]

Yes,it's already in the correspondent thread...I don't know why they deleted it in the end...Maybe because of this; it would have been too heartbreaking...By the way,have you realised he says "I love you"?.

Not in that video...I can only hear the music Is that where he says it? Or is it in the movie? Cos either way I sure as hell can't hear it, and I so badly want to

[brokebacksoul]

I've seen this for the first time ...   Just three seconds, but these can wrench a heart, indeed ...  

I doubt whether the reason for deleting that scene has something to do with MPJ 's assumption (that it could be too heartbreaking)  but of course I can't judge   Maybe the film makers had just objective reasons for the delete. As for me, this scene would have been another agonizing detail  (and therefore I would have loved to see it in the movie !!!!). I can't get enough of that pain, it hurts so deep ...  _{no need to tell me I'm crazy}  

[kitty]

I've seen this for the first time ...   Just three seconds, but these can wrench a heart, indeed ... 

I doubt whether the reason for deleting that scene has something to do with MPJ 's assumption (that it could be too heartbreaking)  but of course I can't judge  Maybe the film makers had just objective reasons for the delete. As for me, this scene would have been another agonizing detail  (and therefore I would have loved to see it in the movie !!!!). I can't get enough of that  ... pain, it hurts so deep ...  _{no need to tell me I'm crazy} 

You're not crazy we love to make ourselves suffer don't we?