It seems that we have two different mindsets as to what this means to our boys - a battle of acceptance versus ostracism that shapes the future for them
I like to blame their fathers for their fears and prejudices, but it was more than just their fathers who led Jack and Ennis to fear discovery. Surely they both worked with men who mentioned gays with scorn and distaste. Ennis knew it wasn't just his father who didn't approve of a gay lifestyle, but all the men he had ever associated with. He knew there was a real reason to be afraid -- be very afraid!
So where does that leave them? Is ranching the ONLY way they could live together, or is Ennis’s childhood fear of two guys living together (which just happened to be in a ranch) so great as to eliminate any other possibility?
For Ennis, we know he came from ranch people, just like Jack. I think Ennis would have liked to have had his own ranch, but unlike Jack (the dreamer) Ennis could never see himself going forward, bettering himself. Just like when Alma said he could take a job with the power company make better money. For Ennis all he knew was ranching. He did work on a roadcrew for a while but that might have been because there was not a ranching job available at the time and he had kids to feed. So he took that job cause that is what there was available.
He had that mindset of "if you can't fix it you gotta stand it" so engrained that the thought of making his own life and maybe having a life with Jack, being his own man too just wasn't part of Ennis' make up. He just didn't have alot of self esteem and thought this was his lot in life so he better get used to it. I'm not going to be anything more than a worthless ranch stiff.
it's sad that Ennis was such an underachiever. Jack was a dreamer but he also had confidence in himself to some extent. Ennis didn't. maybe Jack's mom might have had something to do with it. Maybe she told Jack he could do whatever he wanted to. Ennis didn't have his mama to help him. :\'(
Somewhere along the line, think that Jack was also seeking to reinvent that first summer - of necessity, in order to make a ranch a working operation, they had to be somewhat sizeable. Establishing themselves on a ranch would create an artificial isolation much like they experienced on BBM. When your neighbors are miles away, you gain a certain amount of freedom. Can't help but think of a conversation that I had some time ago with people who lived where I grew up. Their daughter had married and moved to North or South Dakota. Anyway, in the autumn, they would stockpile everything that they would need during the winter because there would be times that they knew they would not be able to get into the nearest town or even to their neighbors. Nature creates that isolation, and can't think it would be much different in WY, and maybe even worse at the time Jack & Ennis lived.
To have an "American Dream", I like to think of it traditional ranch thing of home, family, to even sitting at a lunch counter, to drink at water fountain and not be arrested, and the freedom to love, and be loved. The American Dream changes as the times change, and it goes as far as you're willing to take it.
The American Dream is varied, and could be different to the person you ask the question. The risk is making the dream come true, feel the pain, like in childbrith. Jack depended on one person to make his dream come true, Ennis didn't even know he could dream, So what of the dream?
Well,I can´t speak properly about the"American Dream",but I suppose it´s similar to the ones of any other culture that rose or it´s rising from a rural environment.Here in Spain we can speak about something similar when the country when it overcame the effects of the Civil War and the subsequent boycot to Franco´s dictatorship opening itself to a more industrial future and,therefore,more well-to-do.I guess America in Ennis and Jack´s time was changing quickly to an industrial revolution that affected greatly the country states as Wyoming.So,it´s natural that Jack got this opportunity of improving his social status by settling in a ranch of his own with the one he loved,in a changing environment that,perhaps he thougt,could lead to a more open society in economical and social,but also in,say,moral issues.
I think that what Jack was longing is for a life with Ennis,no matter where,no matter how,no matter when...and that the place where this happenned was an "extra" more or less important.He wanted to live every minute,every second breathing with Ennis breath,living with,for and because of him...However,and for this reason,as someone has said before,what gave him a opportunity of living the most similar to the happy times oF BBM was evidently a ranch for both of them; far from indiscreet glances,creating something day after day only the two of us, knowing and loving each other without interferences of the outer world...I think that for him the idea was a liberation,more than the simple(?) fact of living with his loved.
And for Ennis?Ah¡ this is more complicated...Above all,the isolation far from "dangers" would make him feel happy by living with Jack,and in his inner,innest,self he´d find himself also breathing with Jack´s breath-I think that if he only left himself be free he´d admit he couldn´t live without him-.But fears were so strong in him that I wonder if their living together would be an"obstacles race" not so idilic and,at the end,-as I said in another thread-the love didn´t end,but perhaps their living did.For Ennis it wouldn´t be a liberation,but sometimes all he contrary if he wasn´t able to be free of these fears,and perhaps,of himself-his worst ennemy,not homophobic reactions...-.MHO.
We can ask ourselves a more fundamental wuestion here: why do people -- especially lovers -- wnat to live together? I know that there are financial advantages and so forth, but I don't think that is the real reason, no?
I think thinking about this question put's Jack's dream in a more sympathetic light. What would a homestead mean for lovers? It is primarily a place to grow with their love. I think it was pretty much the same with Jack. The ranch was incidental to that dream.
We can ask ourselves a more fundamental wuestion here: why do people -- especially lovers -- wnat to live together? I know that there are financial advantages and so forth, but I don't think that is the real reason, no?
I think thinking about this question put's Jack's dream in a more sympathetic light. What would a homestead mean for lovers? It is primarily a place to grow with their love. I think it was pretty much the same with Jack. The ranch was incidental to that dream.
Thanks for the interesting comments. I do agree that perhaps the idea of a rance was was so incidental as I initially implied -- that to image them in a city would not be part of who they were. And as aintfoolin and MPJ said, the ranch was something close to the heart, something tht reflected the landscape that they loved, both in the interior and external sense.Yes,of course,the idea was living together,no matter where.Living in a city is not the first image we can have of them,but,on the other hand,would give them the opportunity of anonymityand a minor narrow-mindedness.It would be like a wonderful gift in an ugly parcel,maybe...Living in a ranch,on the contrary,would be living their love in the place they knew and doing the things they knew.The perfect gift in the perfect parcel. :clap:
It is interesting to note that they never went back to BBM -- at least this is what we are made to believe in the SS. So I guess the ranch becomes a surrogate for the ideal -- the Eden not entirely lost so long as they had it within them.Yes,it seems so.For this reason,the idea of a ranch became a continuation of their ideal time together.No matter where it could be,everywhere would be their BBM.
It would also be a place devoid of a critical audience - nature the setting, animals the focus, the rest of humanity well away - and the ranch would be a place from which they could to some degree keep outsiders. no Aguirre with his binoculars, no pickups driving past or neighbors with curious stares, no wives urging them to work harder at the family business or get a better job.
Ennis's father was clearly a man of strong opinions, which he tried to impose on his sone; Jack's father was controlling and disapproving. On their own ranch the two of them could create what they wanted, free of the constant evaluation and criticism of others.
It would also be a place devoid of a critical audience - nature the setting, animals the focus, the rest of humanity well away - and the ranch would be a place from which they could to some degree keep outsiders. no Aguirre with his binoculars, no pickups driving past or neighbors with curious stares, no wives urging them to work harder at the family business or get a better job.I agree,a ranch together not only would be the realisation of their dreams,but also the realisation of their need of being accepted and appraised in their daily work,as they never were by their own fathers.Then,no criticism,neither for their way of living,nor for the way they did that daily life.
Ennis's father was clearly a man of strong opinions, which he tried to impose on his sone; Jack's father was controlling and disapproving. On their own ranch the two of them could create what they wanted, free of the constant evaluation and criticism of others.
It would also be a place devoid of a critical audience - nature the setting, animals the focus, the rest of humanity well away - and the ranch would be a place from which they could to some degree keep outsiders. no Aguirre with his binoculars, no pickups driving past or neighbors with curious stares, no wives urging them to work harder at the family business or get a better job.
Ennis's father was clearly a man of strong opinions, which he tried to impose on his sone; Jack's father was controlling and disapproving. On their own ranch the two of them could create what they wanted, free of the constant evaluation and criticism of others.
Jack could have easily took the money from LD and set off on his own to start a ranch. But one central element would be missing. One guess who that was. With out Ennis, it meant nothing. Make or break.
He loved Ennis and wanted to live out his dream , his life, with him . only then would there be more than enough time. together and Ennis would never have to leave him again. Yeah, he could've hired ranch hands , hooked up with Randall , done it on his own.. etc, but Ennis was the essential part of Jack's dream. He wanted him there to share it with him as a partner. As Tpe said Ennis "embodied" Jack's dream. ( I love that!) Perhaps it's why the dream of owning his own spread never materialized for Jack. It was all or nothing. :( :c)
Jack could have easily took the money from LD and set off on his own to start a ranch. But one central element would be missing. One guess who that was. With out Ennis, it meant nothing. Make or break.
He loved Ennis and wanted to live out his dream , his life, with him . only then would there be more than enough time. together and Ennis would never have to leave him again. Yeah, he could've hired ranch hands , hooked up with Randall , done it on his own.. etc, but Ennis was the essential part of Jack's dream. He wanted him there to share it with him as a partner. As Tpe said Ennis "embodied" Jack's dream. ( I love that!) Perhaps it's why the dream of owning his own spread never materialized for Jack. It was all or nothing. :( :c)
For me Ennis was not the essential part of Jack's dream. As you said Jack could have hired ranch hands or maybe do it on his own, but he didn't do it.....'cause his dream only made sense with Ennis in it. Ennis was Jack's dream!! Just IMHO. ^f^
Doesn't it have to do with love versus liking or affection or attraction ? I don't think Jack needed to think about whether or not to throw in his lot with Ennis - it was just what he wanted to do and had Ennis co-operated would have done. With Randall it might have been more a question of Jack's being flattered by the attention, finding Randall attractive as a person and as an alternative to a life with Lureen but wrthout Ennis.
For me the ranch with Ennis is the dream but the reality, which maybe Jack is coming to face before he dies, is that the dream will never come about but could exist in a partial way with someone else. Whether he could then sustain a life with someone for whom he felt liking and attraction rather than love is another question.
god this could be a confusing post but please bare with me and try to untangle it and make at least some sense of it lol. i admire jacks dream of the ranch and i feel bad that ennis couldnt bring himself to live by it. i think there best option would be to get a ranch but live seperate keep there meetings still a secret if they lived close it wouldnt look suspiciouse for them to go see each other at each others homes and jack may have lived if this happened. saddly however he didnt :\'(and it was one of the sadest and most powerful moments in movie history. i only recently watched the film so i already knew one of them died but i hadnt payed much attention to which 1. but when i actually watched it and the postcard was returned with deceased i had one of thos moments when your heart swells and you feel you will explode. how ever having a ranch together could have just gotten them both killed so i guess we will never know
One things for certain, the symbolic act of living together on the same ranch (whether or not under the same roof) seemed to have meant more to Jack than to Ennis.
you know im not sure about that i think. it looks that way but for me the looks ennis gives when its mentioned by jack are so torn up i think it is just as much his dream but his logical personality prevents him from accepting this as an opption. just barainstorming i do this alot i never leave stones unturned lol
But I think this is precisely my point, zankou1991. Ther mere fact that Ennis was unwilling to take the risk (i.e., against all logic) that Jack was willing to take indicates that it was less central to Ennis's psyche. This is not to say that he didn't like to live with Jack -- but it is clear that his fears got the better of him, at least enough for him NOT to act on his true/inner desires.
i think to jack it would be a dream come true <^(
but to ennis i am not quite sure :s)
IN a way, it was probably a bigger deal for Ennis no? He had so many problems doing this, even if they simply found a way to move in close proximity, I think he would still have had issues with this. Being seen with Jack out in the open seemed to have been a problem for him, especially after the divorce. I attribute this to that fact that he knew other people already knew -- Alma, in particular. I suspwect that Ennis's paranoia was not exactly without grounds...
yes his paronia was pretty well justified he could never be sure quite who knew, for example alma could have told munroe who could have then told anyone. wether this was the reality or not ennis had the right to be paronoid
I somehow felt that it would have been impossible for Alma NOT to have told Monroe after the Thanksgiving fight. But then again, maybe Monroe would have simply guessed from various hints that would have come out of Alma over the years...I agree with you,and in this sense is easier to understand that the divorce,that might have been seen as a liberation for Ennis,was indeed a kind of chain around him.As a married man he could have a freedom somehow that,after being a single man again,could easily put him in the middle of people's gossip,no?.Even if Alma hadn't said anything to Monroe,people in town could talk if they saw him alone or only in the company of another man...
I agree with you,and in this sense is easier to understand that the divorce,that might have been seen as a liberation for Ennis,was indeed a kind of chain around him.As a married man he could have a freedom somehow that,after being a single man again,could easily put him in the middle of people's gossip,no?.Even if Alma hadn't said anything to Monroe,people in town could talk if they saw him alone or only in the company of another man...
I agree with you,and in this sense is easier to understand that the divorce,that might have been seen as a liberation for Ennis,was indeed a kind of chain around him.As a married man he could have a freedom somehow that,after being a single man again,could easily put him in the middle of people's gossip,no?.Even if Alma hadn't said anything to Monroe,people in town could talk if they saw him alone or only in the company of another man...
Exactly, for years, he hid behind the pretense of marriage, and after the divorce, Ennis felt he was more vulnerable to gossip and speculation. Perhaps Alma's comment about Ennis needing to remarry was a subtle hint in this direction, no? Perhaps she was aware that people were starting to talk?
i was just thinking i previously said i agreed that ennis had every right to be paronoid but i was just thinking if ennis had moved away with jack even if the people at his home town found out i dont think they would go all the way to where he was in lightning flat or texas to harm him, he would just never be welocme home but that would not be the end of the world. as long as no one in the place they moved to knew the problem would be all but none existant
Yes,for this reason Ennis felt more free having marriage duties,because,above all,this was a shelter for him in which he felt protected against gossips,no?.But being a single man -in an environment that almost obliged him to remarry-,would be easier for people to talk about this still young man who is alone and only seen going out with another man,always the same man.The shield would be broken.
Yes, I think in the last years of his marriage, he used it more like a shield, although I am sure that he genuinely wanted things to "stabilize" somehow out of his love for the kids.
After the divorce, being seen with Jack made him especially vulnerable, as you said. The shield was no longer there to keep tongues quiet.
Ennis was concerned about not being able to see the girls -- or is this a convenient excuse?
Yes, I think in the last years of his marriage, he used it more like a shield, although I am sure that he genuinely wanted things to "stabilize" somehow out of his love for the kids.
After the divorce, being seen with Jack made him especially vulnerable, as you said. The shield was no longer there to keep tongues quiet.
What it meant for Ennis was a life, contantly looking over his shoulder. Fear of ending up like Earl and Rich, and that meant loosing Jack in a violent way, or Jack loosing him to the tire irons. Does'nt mean he did'nt want it though.
For Jack it was stability, togetherness and no more lonley nights, or days. Also a solid confirmation and commitment of love from Ennis. It would show Jack that all his efforts/sacrifices were worth it and Ennis's too. He was right, they were safer together than apart.
What it meant for Ennis was a life, contantly looking over his shoulder. Fear of ending up like Earl and Rich, and that meant loosing Jack in a violent way, or Jack loosing him to the tire irons. Does'nt mean he did'nt want it though.
For Jack it was stability, togetherness and no more lonley nights, or days. Also a solid confirmation and commitment of love from Ennis. It would show Jack that all his efforts/sacrifices were worth it and Ennis's too. He was right, they were safer together than apart.
Having a ranch together means his dreams coming true for Jack. All he really wants, all he really needs is to be with his one true love, Ennis. It means exactly the same thing for Ennis, all he really wants is to be with his one true love, Jack. However, there is one key difference between them. Jack won't let his fear bind him and stop him from being who is and living his dreams, while Ennis, no matter how much he wishes he could be free to be who he is, and live the life he deserves, is too afraid to make it happen. Ennis's fear keeps not only himself a prisoner in his life, but it makes Jack a prisoner too, because as long as Ennis is afraid, Jack can't live that sweet life with him. So both of them are forced to live lives of loneliness. In the end, Ennis realizes that he should have listened to his heart all those years ago, listened to Jack, but it's too late.
I do agree that the dream of a life together certainly held more tangible meaning for Jack than for Ennis. But perhaps the problem was this: that it did hold great meaning to Ennis also, but in a very bad way. For Ennis it called forth the spectre of Earl...
hmmm this is probably the statement i have most agreed with in this thread recently, but i beleive in accordence to ennis yes he found the idea frightning due to his memory of earl, but also i feel he longed for a ranch almost as much as jack he just had the fear holding him back and ennis just couldnt bare the thought of him or jack being killed and seperated, IMO ennis beleived it was better for him to be with jack less often then being with jack and getting jack killed because of it. ironic how in the end the decision to live with jack could have saved him of course it could have cut their time together even shorter :-\\.
Yes, I do think Ennis wanted to have a life with Jack deepdown, but was much more afraid that any actions on their part would lead to a reaction from society at large. I think we should bear in mind that Ennis didn't really abhor the thought of a ranch shared with Jack -- he abhored the thought of exposure and the subsequent violent reaction.
Yes, I do think Ennis wanted to have a life with Jack deepdown, but was much more afraid that any actions on their part would lead to a reaction from society at large. I think we should bear in mind that Ennis didn't really abhor the thought of a ranch shared with Jack -- he abhored the thought of exposure and the subsequent violent reaction.
Having the ranch together means the facing of fears , shame and and overriding them with love, pride, and courage.
This is what did not happen though I wished it would've or could've happened. :)
Both Ennis and Jack were right in that they interpreted living together in a ranch as a tacit acknowledgement of their love to the wider world, IMO.
hmmm this is probably the statement i have most agreed with in this thread recently, but i beleive in accordence to ennis yes he found the idea frightning due to his memory of earl, but also i feel he longed for a ranch almost as much as jack he just had the fear holding him back and ennis just couldnt bare the thought of him or jack being killed and seperated, IMO ennis beleived it was better for him to be with jack less often then being with jack and getting jack killed because of it. ironic how in the end the decision to live with jack could have saved him of course it could have cut their time together even shorter :-\\.
Of course, and for this same reason Ennis wasn't so willing to accept it; because he knew it'd be a way to show themselves to the society as they really were,not the way he spent all his life pretending to be and to show to others.
It is interesting that Jack wanted it so badly, knowing full well that it would be an acknowledgement of their relationship to the wider world. The ranch meant the same thing to both of them, but their attitudes were completely opposite, no?
Jack knew that society wouldn't accept them, but he didn't care. He wasn't going to let society and fear of it dictate his life and keep him a prisoner. He didn't want to pretend to be something he's not to please others, while on the inside he was miserable. He felt he deserved to have true love and happiness in his life. Ennis saw it in much the same way, he didn't want to be a prisoner, he felt like he deserved freedom, happiness, and true love. He was miserable pretending to be something he wasn't, but in Ennis' mind, he couldn't do anything about it because he was imprisoned by society. That's the difference between them. Jack will fight for what he knows is right, while Ennis feels powerless. And because Ennis feels powerless to change things, Jack can't be with Ennis, so he himself becomes a prisoner of the society that chained Ennis, or the society that Ennis allowed to keep him in chains.Good points,Athena¡.Yes,Jack was all his life fighting for have his dreams come true,not letting that society chained him too much.Jack really was a dreamer,but also a fighter; a fighter to get the situation changed and also because this situation didn't change him at the end.Ennis was fighting also,but not for change the situation,but to live inside it the best he could.
Jack was certainly more reckless in his attitude to the relationship. His advantage (or disadvantage) is that he thought less of the ramifications of a life together -- he was more in tune with his feelings and allowed them to dictate the direction of his life. Not that he was unaware of the possible consequences -- I think he was very much aware of them. But perhaps a life subject to the fear of such consequences matter less to him -- matter less than the prospect of denying a life of feeling.
The ranch had therefore come to symbolize an unattainable. The dream of the ranch changed the dynamic of the relationship: it sought to bring permanency to the dream of BBM -- down into the plains. It is understandable that Ennis partly saw this change in dynamic as a threat, whereas Jack saw it as an opportunity. From then on, it was a push and pull that resulted in no movement. It is ironic that at the moment when Jack let go in death, Ennis was at the threshold of understanding that opportunity.
Yes,it's one of the many ironies that BBM had,as an story of a frustration and denial that it's... :-\\
And yes,the ranch would be in Jack's eyes as a continuation of their lost paradise up in the mountain,their own and private Brokeback.In Ennis eyes,like the paradise´s expulsion,a continuation of the "hell" they found in real life when they came back from Brokeback,with all their duties,dangers and problems in pure state...
I like the analogy you draw about Paraside lost. I believe welshwitch laso alluded to this some time ago. It is certainly an appropriate analogy. And I would say that the dream of the ranch is a dream to return to paradise on earth, but the Angel of Fear with the burning sword stops them at the gate.
i am sure that in death once ennis died jack and ennis would be happy together, forever and they could have that ranch or whatever maybe brokeback and then they could live fearlessly and lovingly with each other.
We certainly want to believe that this is so. Could Ennis have believed? I have no doubt that he would have wanted it so...
I like the analogy you draw about Paraside lost. I believe welshwitch laso alluded to this some time ago. It is certainly an appropriate analogy. And I would say that the dream of the ranch is a dream to return to paradise on earth, but the Angel of Fear with the burning sword stops them at the gate.
when i seen ennis eyes in the eye swear seen i could jsut tell he beleived he would see jack again, also the very fact he said i swear on some level proves in his beleif that jack is still with him if he beleived death was the end would he have bothered??
I think Ennis was bothered not to see Jack anymore here on Earth.But I don't know if we know it for sure or it's what we'd wish to happen; maybe there's another place in another plane where the old lovers could find themselves again to be happy forever.
I think you've explained the analogy much better than me...Yes,the Angel of Fear stopped them at the gate of their paradise on earth.Worse still if this Angel is in a great extent,Ennis himself.And sometimes,Jack,or better said,the ensemble of both.
I think Ennis was bothered not to see Jack anymore here on Earth.But I don't know if we know it for sure or it's what we'd wish to happen; maybe there's another place in another plane where the old lovers could find themselves again to be happy forever.
That is too harsh and speculative to say, IMO. I can understand lack of sympathy for Randall, but there is really no specific cause to hate him, no? If there was something between Jack and Randall, it must have been carried out with tacit understanding on both sides.i agree, although i think even if jack got it into a relationship with randall he would soon return to jack but... we have no real reason to hate randall i jsut hate the fact of the scenario :-\\
Jack didn't love Randall as much as he loved Ennis, but perhaps he was willing to move on with life and live with Jack (although this is not strictly stated in the final cut of the movie). If he was indeed willing, then perhaps he deserves our sympathy rather than our hate.
i agree, although i think even if jack got it into a relationship with randall he would soon return to jack but... we have no real reason to hate randall i jsut hate the fact of the scenario :-\\
Maybe you ar write guys.
I just wanted to see them together... :(
Anyway, I don't like Randall. He is not wanted in relationship of Jack and Ennis. :(
:ANGRY:
That is too harsh and speculative to say, IMO. I can understand lack of sympathy for Randall, but there is really no specific cause to hate him, no? If there was something between Jack and Randall, it must have been carried out with tacit understanding on both sides.
Jack didn't love Randall as much as he loved Ennis, but perhaps he was willing to move on with life and live with Jack (although this is not strictly stated in the final cut of the movie). If he was indeed willing, then perhaps he deserves our sympathy rather than our hate.
I don’ hate him. I know Jack didn’t love that man, and maybe Randall didn’t love Jack too, but I think they were together for 4 or 5 years? (Thomas is that right?), so I think they could feel real affection for each other. I respect Randall because he didn’t use Jack like night’s f***. He stood by his side for a long time!!
I don’ hate him. I know Jack didn’t love that man, and maybe Randall didn’t love Jack too, but I think they were together for 4 or 5 years? (Thomas is that right?), so I think they could feel real affection for each other. I respect Randall because he didn’t use Jack like night’s f***. He stood by his side for a long time!!
But Jack uses Randall like night's f***. I think so.
Jack: And I’m not you. I can’t...
...make it on a couple
of high-altitude f***s
once or twice a year...
That's why he was with Randall. ???
Randall remains a mystery to me -- a dark and shadowy character who was perhaps played an important role in the background. Yes, I think they were on and off for a number of years, and I too feel some respect for Randall, because he did seem to have lasted.
I think what is more telling is that Jack was willing to consider Randall as the person to sahre a ranch and a life with -- this speaks more about true intimacy and hints of deeper affection, no?
Randall remains a mystery to me -- a dark and shadowy character who was perhaps played an important role in the background. Yes, I think they were on and off for a number of years, and I too feel some respect for Randall, because he did seem to have lasted.
I think what is more telling is that Jack was willing to consider Randall as the person to sahre a ranch and a life with -- this speaks more about true intimacy and hints of deeper affection, no?
As a kind of summary of the question,IMO having a ranch together meant for Jack the confirmation of their feelings; for Ennis,the confirmation of his fears...
I would be stronger and call it an affirmation. I think this is what you meant, MPJ. :^^)
This is true, For Jack it means their on an equal plane in taking their love to a higher level. To him it also means security, no more need to take chances looking for love in all the wrong places. Ranching up with Ennis means that Ennis is finally finding him worthy of the sacred trust to conquer his fear. He would be home with Ennis in every sense of the word. His love and sacrifices confirmed and made worthy at last.
For Ennis it would mean expectations of him that maybe he's not quite ready for. Though he'd wake up next to Jack every morning, There would always be that lurking thought of Earl and Rich. Though Jack feels secure ,Ennis would continue to feel the insecurities. He's convinced that sooner or later he'd be confronted by the tire irons. That he'd have to at some point protect Jack from harm, confirming his love for Jack to the outside world. The slightest mistake on either's part, a careless gesture and they could be dead. Sadly, being apart proved more fatal in the end, and that's something he has to live with, so what difference did it make? It was Jack he sought to protect, yet it was Jack who died (in his mind, just as he invisioned and feared the most). What had he gained? He found out that what he lost by not ranching up was'nt worth the fear of not doing so, Jack was right all along.
The ranch is also a sort of regression, to something like what they had on Brokeback, or thought they had till Aguirre intruded. they could have fenced in their land and closed the gates on the outside world, knowing that no-one could spy on or attack them. It was an impractical dream in some ways, since it entailed leaving everything - Lureen, Bobby, Alma and the girls, assuming that none of them and no-one from the "real" world would object then taking a chance that they could make it on their own in what was a difficult time andplace for ranching.I have a feeling that Ennis senses vaguely that it's not possible to "call back yesterday" but Jack, with his usual hopefulness, never thinks of that.
But then when were dreams ever practical?
I think it's less going back to the place than trying to recreate somewhere like it but with the added advantage of belonging to them, so that they could keep others away and know they were safe. They were generaly happy enough to work on Brokeback and Jack at least appears happy to contemplate going on working with Ennis. The dream is not one of material wealth or comfort, so the ranch isn't an escapist notion.
Yes,of course,when I said that ranching together would have been like going back to BBM,I meant recreating the freedom environment they had there.And of course too,with the added advantage of being something of their own,that could be created,arranged and LIVED everyday for the two of them.This hypothetical ranch would be,then,a metaphor of Jack's dreams,the object that would symbolise an emotional and sentimental place where everything would be as the best time of their life.beautiful post Ali :)
beautiful post Ali :)
I think it's less going back to the place than trying to recreate somewhere like it but with the added advantage of belonging to them, so that they could keep others away and know they were safe. They were generaly happy enough to work on Brokeback and Jack at least appears happy to contemplate going on working with Ennis. The dream is not one of material wealth or comfort, so the ranch isn't an escapist notion.
Yes,of course,when I said that ranching together would have been like going back to BBM,I meant recreating the freedom environment they had there.And of course too,with the added advantage of being something of their own,that could be created,arranged and LIVED everyday for the two of them.This hypothetical ranch would be,then,a metaphor of Jack's dreams,the object that would symbolise an emotional and sentimental place where everything would be as the best time of their life.
beautiful post Ali :)
Very good distinction. And I guess you could say that them being together signified a recreation. It wasn't entirely about the physical place, would you agree?
I agree, the physical place.imo is just an added bonus. What really matters is that they would be together. There would be that whole sense of committment for life with each other and their love could grow in a more natual way. A peaceful , settled home where ever that may be. It may be a dream, but not an impossible dream.Where there's a will , there's a way? Could this have worked? I don't know, but it was worth a shot.
"Home" is wherever they were togther. The Ranch is indeed a metaphor for a life shared -- wthout reference to any specific place.
Thanks Tammy. There is some sly truth in Lureen's comment. I paraphrase: "Knowing Jack, it might have been some pretend place, where the bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring."
Lurren got it, at least in the sense that BBM epitomized a piece of Heaven for Ennis and Jack. A ranch and a shared life together would have also pretty much epitomized BBM itself.
Of course; a shared life-no matter when-would be an eternal or at least prolonged continuation of the Paradise they found in BBM.for some one who doesnt speak english as their primary language that was beutiful Ali ^f^
for some one who doesnt speak english as their primary language that was beutiful Ali ^f^
"Home" is wherever they were togther. The Ranch is indeed a metaphor for a life shared -- wthout reference to any specific place.
I agree it is a metaphor for a life shared , a home after all and finally, but there's more work to be done in order for this to work out. In terms of themselves, before an undertaking such as this can succeed. Ennis can't be still thinking of Jack as "boys like you" and Jack cannot remain immune from compromise. This could have worked imo, but the difference between a home and a *happy* home Jack and Ennis style, is the main daunting challenge. At least they'd be together and time would heal all wounds and soothe all fears. Jack's dream come true, a ranch with Ennis , it's setting, a balance of Brokeback in it's isolation and a reflection of their own individual styles and as a couple. Certainly very aware of the dangers ...but :) :) Ennis's deer head trophys and Jack's rodeo belt buckles , side by side? now that's a life...... If only.... :cr) :c)
And I think I did say this before: that the "ranch" was purely incidental. It stood for what was essential: that they be together always -- and grow old in that love. The difference between them becomes secondary to the fact that both wanted to be with each other. But in the case of Ennis, what stopped him was his inability to see that they could be together and remain safe. We don't question his desire to be with Jack, most certainly. We question the dominance of fear over love.
Your absolutly right as always. I love the way you said that the "dominance of fear" shadowed them. Beautifully said. Ennis's fear would have to be dealt with by Jack and by Ennis himself. Your right again. Being together is the main objective. Had Ennis found the courage, Fear would eventually hide it's face in the precence of a love this strong. As long as Ennis woke to Jack every morning , over a period of time, I believe fear would begin to take a back seat, and love , in it's purest form would emerge. Perhaps creating a life, side by side with Jack everyday, Ennis would eventually let it. Just, MO.
Your absolutly right as always. I love the way you said that the "dominance of fear" shadowed them. Beautifully said. Ennis's fear would have to be dealt with by Jack and by Ennis himself. Your right again. Being together is the main objective. Had Ennis found the courage, Fear would eventually hide it's face in the precence of a love this strong. As long as Ennis woke to Jack every morning , over a period of time, I believe fear would begin to take a back seat, and love , in it's purest form would emerge. Perhaps creating a life, side by side with Jack everyday, Ennis would eventually let it. Just, MO.