Until Ennis saw the two shirts in Jacks room do you think he really knew how much Jack loved him and that it was more than a deep sexual friendship?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Jack had told him and demonstrated it on many occasions so I think he knew. Having said that I believe the full impact hit him when he found the shirts. Plus at that point he knew it was too late to do anything about it. :'(
I think Ennis knew. For a guy to ask another guy in that time and place to want to ranch together was pretty bold.
For Ennis to want those shirts, not to mention letting Jack's parents know he wanted them shows some growth on Ennis' part.
Think about it, Ennis gets the news that Jack is dead through the MAIL!!!!! so cold followed by Lureen, Lady Stinking Macbeth, Twist's conversation.
You have been in love with a man for 20 years starting at the best time of your life. You find out he was killed months earlier you never got to see him or go to his funeral. You have no closure. He was creamated there is nothing left but ashes and you don't even get to see them. That to me is the most unbearable pain anyone could suffer. You have lost the love of your life and there is NOTHING left??!!????
Yes, that is true. But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.
I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.
Yes, that is true. But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.
I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.
In the story, I got a similiar sense about Jack: that he enjoyed Ennis's company and the fantastic physical connection, but wanted to live with Ennis strictly based on that. This came through in the motel scene. So when I got to the part where Ennis finds the shirts, I struck, and heartbroken, to discover that Jack really did love him, as why else would he have saved those shirts and wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback?
In the movie, Jack seemed to be more sensitive and in love with Ennis than in the story.
I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact. In contrast, the only time Ennis spontaneously shows Jack affection is in the "dozy embrace" (the flashback at their last meeting). And even then there's a bittersweet note in that scene -- Ennis would not embrace Jack face-to-face because he couldn't acknowledge that it was a man he was being intimate with.
To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally. And he was much more than a sex partner to Ennis. He was Ennis' angel. While Ennis was strong physically (violent), Jack was strong spiritually (protective and nurturing). Whenever Jack senses Ennis is hurt/vulnerable, he immediately helps and comforts Ennis. After Ennis is thrown from his horse, Jack gives Ennis his bandana to clean his wound. In the BBM fight scene, Jack says "come here, you're okay" (the short story calls him a "ministering angel" in this scene); in the 2nd tent scene, Jack whispers "it's all right"; during their 1st fishing trip when Ennis says "no reins on this one", Jack tenderly brushes his cheek; during their last meeting, when Ennis collapses, Jack embraces him and once again says "it's all right". And of course, the ultimate symbol of Jack embracing and protecting Ennis -- the shirts. I think all of these actions more than make up for the missing verbal declaration of Jack's love for Ennis.
How many of us ever have someone like Jack, so dedicated and attuned to our vulnerabilities, always there to rush in and pick us up when we fall? Ennis' great tragedy is that he had this and pushed it away, and when finally called on it, he let it walk away. "Jack, I swear" is a silent acknowledgement of his huge mistake.
I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact.
To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally.
Yes, that is true. But Ennis knew they both enjoyed each others company and knew they were having fantastic sex together and that alone might make Jack want to live together---just so they could have that sex more often.
I am just not sure Ennis realized just how much more than the great sex and companionship Jack felt for him until he saw Jack's shirt holding his and through that, Jack holding him.
In the story, I got a similiar sense about Jack: that he enjoyed Ennis's company and the fantastic physical connection, but wanted to live with Ennis strictly based on that. This came through in the motel scene. So when I got to the part where Ennis finds the shirts, I struck, and heartbroken, to discover that Jack really did love him, as why else would he have saved those shirts and wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback?
In the movie, Jack seemed to be more sensitive and in love with Ennis than in the story.
I think Jack's reason for wanting to spend the rest of his life with Ennis went far beyond physical attraction or sex. Yes he needed sex, a lot of it, but as much if not moreso he wanted love and intimacy, and unlike Ennis, didn't feel threatened by that fact. In contrast, the only time Ennis spontaneously shows Jack affection is in the "dozy embrace" (the flashback at their last meeting). And even then there's a bittersweet note in that scene -- Ennis would not embrace Jack face-to-face because he couldn't acknowledge that it was a man he was being intimate with.
To me it's clear Jack loved Ennis and wanted to be loved by Ennis. He just couldn't say it verbally. And he was much more than a sex partner to Ennis. He was Ennis' angel. While Ennis was strong physically (violent), Jack was strong spiritually (protective and nurturing). Whenever Jack senses Ennis is hurt/vulnerable, he immediately helps and comforts Ennis. After Ennis is thrown from his horse, Jack gives Ennis his bandana to clean his wound. In the BBM fight scene, Jack says "come here, you're okay" (the short story calls him a "ministering angel" in this scene); in the 2nd tent scene, Jack whispers "it's all right"; during their 1st fishing trip when Ennis says "no reins on this one", Jack tenderly brushes his cheek; during their last meeting, when Ennis collapses, Jack embraces him and once again says "it's all right". And of course, the ultimate symbol of Jack embracing and protecting Ennis -- the shirts. I think all of these actions more than make up for the missing verbal declaration of Jack's love for Ennis.
How many of us ever have someone like Jack, so dedicated and attuned to our vulnerabilities, always there to rush in and pick us up when we fall? Ennis' great tragedy is that he had this and pushed it away, and when finally called on it, he let it walk away. "Jack, I swear" is a silent acknowledgement of his huge mistake.
Sorry for rambling...
While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.
I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet.
TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.
While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.
I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet.
TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.
But how did Ennis steal the shirts? Just wad them up and put them in his jacket? Surely he didn't have a knapsack or something with him when he went up there? Would he look suspicious as he walked out with a lumpy jacket?
And does that fit our picture of Ennis? sneaking out with shirts under his jacket?
Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts? She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?). Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while. She knew the shirts were there just from dusting. But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts. If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them. Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed. Ironed jeans??? But she ironed them.
While the book does not even mention Ennis taking the shirts with him, I just feel that he took them without Jack's folks even knowing that he had them. I believe that Ennis took them just like Jack took his bloodied shirt from Brokeback Mountain.
I also get the feeling that his parents never even knew those shirts were hidden in the jog in the closet.
TJ, I think you're right about the parents not knowing about the shirts. Hell, stud duck never even goes in that room.
But how did Ennis steal the shirts? Just wad them up and put them in his jacket? Surely he didn't have a knapsack or something with him when he went up there? Would he look suspicious as he walked out with a lumpy jacket?
And does that fit our picture of Ennis? sneaking out with shirts under his jacket?
Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts? She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?). Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while. She knew the shirts were there just from dusting. But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts. If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them. Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed. Ironed jeans??? But she ironed them.
Oh, when I lived with my folks and my mother ironed my clothes for me, I was the one who who hung them up in the closet. I did iron my Levi's 501s jeans during my undergrad college years in the 1960s. I also used pants leg stretchers with the non-preshrunk Jeans, too; that made them easier to put back on without "pouring myself into them." (I don't even own an iron now.)
I can imagine that Jack was the one who put the clean and ironed clothes in the curtained off closet in his room.
(Oh, when Ennis was carrying the shirts in the movie, he had folded them up really small. That would not have caused much of a bulge if he had hidden them under his jacket. In fact, as loose as his jacket was in the pic below, they would never have noticed a thing.)
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OMG look at his face he have the "Don't even try to take me this from me" when he looks at Old Twist!!!
Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts? She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?). Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while. She knew the shirts were there just from dusting. But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts. If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them. Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed. Ironed jeans??? But she ironed them.
But my question remains--IN THE BOOK did he steal them or ask for them?
But my question remains--IN THE BOOK did he steal them or ask for them?
Well, in the book it doesn't say one way or the other. I see no need to make Ennis into a thief though. Guess we have to remember, Annie was writing a short story and therefore left out a lot of unnecessary details. I suppose if she was writing a novel she would have put that in there.
Edgar, why would you think Mrs. Twist didn't know about the shirts? She said she kept his room just like it was when he was a boy (19?). Mr. Twist probably never went into the room but Mrs. Twist surely did if only to dust once in a while. She knew the shirts were there just from dusting. But, I am convinced Jack told her about the shirts. If he hadn't, Mrs. Twist would surely have washed them. Just like she did his pants, all washed and ironed. Ironed jeans??? But she ironed them.
Okay. Mrs. Twist being a good domestic type, she wouldn't just let dirty, smelly, *bloody* (omg) shirts hang there for years. Even if Jack hid them for a while, she would have found them. Mayb Jack just said to him mom, "Please don't wash this shirt" (these shirts?). (You know, unless you look carefully, you'd think it was just one shirt.)
But my question remains--IN THE BOOK did he steal them or ask for them?
Okay. Mrs. Twist being a good domestic type, she wouldn't just let dirty, smelly, *bloody* (omg) shirts hang there for years. Even if Jack hid them for a while, she would have found them. Mayb Jack just said to him mom, "Please don't wash this shirt" (these shirts?). (You know, unless you look carefully, you'd think it was just one shirt.)
But my question remains--IN THE BOOK did he steal them or ask for them?
Oh, come on. After the guys had been wearing the shirts all summer, and washing them out only in the stream, and then wearing them during a sunny day and having a wrestling match/fight in them, and getting them dirty and bloody, don't tell me they wouldn't be smelly.
The reason Jack smells nothing is because, for goodness' sake, the shirts have been hanging there twenty years.
Hmmm. I don't know whether Mrs. Twist would be so officious as to keep everything nice and clean, or so reserved as to "not snoop." The thing is, after your child dies, I think you would go into the room and look around.
In fact, you might even smell the shirts.
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This is sort of a BTDT situation in my case. I love a certain young man very much and I have not seen him since December. He is a whole lot like the fictional Ennis Del Mar. He told people that he was not gay when he was living with me and they knew that he was sleeping in a twin-sized daybed with me. Although there was a pop-up trundle bed which he could have used instead, he claimed it was too much trouble to pull it out and make it up and then put it back the next morning.TJ, please don't think i would seek to call anyone a liar or belittle their opinions on this or any other forum. If i have another point of view to someone else and choose to voice it i always make sure i include that this is only my opinion in my post. This is not being argumentative, only expressing my own right to freedom of speech. Thats not to say i don't find your idea of Jack Twist being alive interesting, just that i see things from a different, but also valid, point of view.
I have quit Kaland in a way that I stopped chasing after him like Jack Twist decided to "Let be, let be" in the book in a section seperate from the last time Ennis and Jack are together. When Jack has the "flashback" in the book which las the let be words in it, there is triple spacing.
We don't have to argue and call other members liars in these internet forums. But, while I am a member here, I am more like a guest who is here for free. And, here in the United States of America, as long as there is a Democratic party with people in the US Congress, we will continue to be guaranteed to have freedom of speech in the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights added to the US Constitution.
I just say what I feel from my own world point of view (WPOV). In both of those formal literary criticisms classes which I took after earning a BA in Education, one of things to consider when reading literature was the author's world view at the time, too.
Annie Proulx's "world view" or more exact, her "Wyoming view," needs to be understood here, first of all, since she wrote the original story. She has that Wyoming view as well as the view of an admitted heterosexual by orientation lady. Her WPOV is not the same as Larry McMurtry's Texas POV nor the same as Ang Lee's Taiwan POV about the same subject.
I don't see how Jack's mother, at least, couldn't have known - Jack talked openly ( as you do talk incessantly about the one you love when away from them) about bringing Ennis up to Lightning Flat, then later about bringing the TExan neighbour - it can't have escaped them that these were both men, and that he was apparently talking about leaving his wife, whom he's never brought to Lightning Flat. I don't know whether they even went to the funeral - Lureen says she sent the ashes to them.
As for the shirts, I think it's true that Ennis was going to keep them no matter what. John Twist clearly loathes his son and intuitively knows that refusing Ennis permission to take Jack's ashed to BBM will hurt him - he's a vicious old man, and maybe deeply angry that his son turned out to be what he was. In return Ennis takes the shirts, which are all he has left of Jack and those old cold days on the mountain - he can keep them, because they hanging in the closet they give nothing away. In the story he leaves them in the open, and I like that idea - that he's moving on and freer than he was. The movie version makes him as guilty and secretive as he was in the past, without any sense of reconciliation with his nature.
I'm pretty sure that in the short story version of Ennis's phone call to Lureen, she tells him that Jack's folks didn't come down for the funeral, so you're right welshwitch.
The book says Jack's mother "was never a part of her husband's life"; I'm very sure Mrs Twist had very strict orders from Jack NOT to wash and iron the shirts. Whether precisely why, may or may not have been expressed, but she certainly knew one of the shirts was not Jacks and they both were bloodstained. I think Jack's mother assumed far more than what we give her credit for. And I further believe her invitation to Ennis to come back to visit--despite the hateful Mr Twist--was an invitation to take Jack's ashes back to Brokeback where they belong.
Yeah, Jack's mum knew - Roberta Maxwell confirms that in an interview that was posted over in the soundtrack forum - the link is http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/live/ if you want to listen. She also said that Annie Proulx thanked her for getting over the fact that Jack's mum knew....
Yeah, Jack's mum knew - Roberta Maxwell confirms that in an interview that was posted over in the soundtrack forum - the link is http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/live/ if you want to listen. She also said that Annie Proulx thanked her for getting over the fact that Jack's mum knew....Thank you, NoReigns. That was beautiful interview...
I don't see how Jack's mother, at least, couldn't have known - Jack talked openly ( as you do talk incessantly about the one you love when away from them) about bringing Ennis up to Lightning Flat, then later about bringing the TExan neighbour - it can't have escaped them that these were both men, and that he was apparently talking about leaving his wife, whom he's never brought to Lightning Flat. I don't know whether they even went to the funeral - Lureen says she sent the ashes to them.I basically agree with this post. Whether or not her mind led her to inquire about her son's sexual relationships, that is open to question. Parents can maintain a high level of denial in this area, and when there are questions, they may not want consciously to know the answers. But the film scene does give us the idea that she was aware of Jack's love for Ennis, that she knew it was true and deep, and that she was in sympathy with it. And remember, her son is Jack, who wears his heart on his sleeve, pun unintended. And Jack was probably in varying degrees of pain after the partings with Ennis at the end of their trips, which is when Jack would head up to his parents' ranch. And a mother knows better than anyone when her child is hurting. She may have known enough not to ask questions.
As for the shirts, I think it's true that Ennis was going to keep them no matter what. John Twist clearly loathes his son and intuitively knows that refusing Ennis permission to take Jack's ashed to BBM will hurt him - he's a vicious old man, and maybe deeply angry that his son turned out to be what he was. In return Ennis takes the shirts, which are all he has left of Jack and those old cold days on the mountain - he can keep them, because they hanging in the closet they give nothing away. In the story he leaves them in the open, and I like that idea - that he's moving on and freer than he was. The movie version makes him as guilty and secretive as he was in the past, without any sense of reconciliation with his nature.
And I like the story's description of the shirts being out in the open, moving in the drafts blowing through Ennis's trailer. I guess Ang or the screenwriters wanted to use the symbol of the closet to emphasize their point.
The "old" Ennis would have had them in the very back of the closet, where there was no chance anyone would have seen them.
The "old" Ennis would have had them in the very back of the closet, where there was no chance anyone would have seen them.What a wonderfully hopeful thought Marge! I love it...and would never have thought of it. Thanks.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Ffa_sharp%2Fpic%2F002cwyxy&hash=4eee6e0c65faf90e39873ebcd1aa0987becd1d35)OMG look at his face he have the "Don't even try to take me this from me" when he looks at Old Twist!!!
And when you see the movie again Carlos, watch how Ennis moves the shirts from where they are in this picture, to his right side, like he is telling the old man just that....You ain't getting these! LOL
I am glad you enjoyed the article..:) it really puts things in perspective...:)
Ossana: ... And then he goes up to Jack’s room and he finds his old shirt hanging tucked inside Jack’s, and he realizes how much that man loved him—how deeply he loved him from the get-go.
Ossana: ... And then he goes up to Jack’s room and he finds his old shirt hanging tucked inside Jack’s, and he realizes how much that man loved him—how deeply he loved him from the get-go.
I always choke when I read this part.
How callous and cold to get a postcard back stamped deceased, Lureen = ice princess. She had to be the one who sent it back! I can't and don't want to imagine what I would go through if I lost my Bubba.
I think Ennis knows that Jack loves him, but perhaps not the depth of his love and certainly not its duration. These are my reasons:
1. When the boys are told that the summer must end, Jack shows no emotion.
2. Jack meets, falls in love with and marries someone else AFTER meeting Ennis. (Ennis had already promised himself, didn't see
a future with Jack, so what the hay?)
3. Jack goes back for work the next year, but when he doesn't get it he moves on. He doesn't look up Ennis.
4. Jack takes 4 years to contact Ennis.
5. Jack remains married and has numerous sexual partners. He doesn't seem to be bothered that they are not Ennis or male at
all, at least to Ennis's knowledge.
6. Jack all but admits he has been with other men.
7. Jack tells his dad he is leaving Lureen and shacking up with another man.
I believe Ennis has a hard time not being true to his heart. He cannot maintain sexual relations with either Alma or Cassie. I believe he breaks things off with Cassie, because he is so hurt by the thought of Jack's infidelity with other men. So, he decides to widen his definition of fidelity to include women. Also his feelings of jealousy intensify his love for Jack, thereby making sex with Cassie unsatisfying. Ennis knows how he felt for Jack one year after BBM, when he figures out why he was sick that day. When he sees those shirts, he finally realizes that Jack loved him right from the start as he had.
Lord, Jack didn't drive 1400 miles, ones way several times a year for "just good sex".
I think Ennis knew Jack loved him, wanted him to have a sweet life with him. Jack was
always thinking of ways it could work, and Ennis was always telling him it couldn't.
If Jack had ever come right out and said "I love you" to Ennis, Ennis would have severed the
relationship right then. That was Jack's fear. Two men can't be in love is En's thinking.
That would make them gay and En didn't want to be gay. They just had this "thing" to Ennis's thinking.
After Jack was gone.... saw those shirts...... that is when reality set in. That's when he knew what
he really lost.
(...) I haven't read the screen play, was there more of an explanation there?
The shirts are the outward and visible symbol of Jack-and-Ennis; seeing them in Jack's room is the first time Ennis sees himself and Jack from the outside, as Jack wanted them to be, one entity, love making them indivisible..
The shirts are the outward and visible symbol of Jack-and-Ennis; seeing them in Jack's room is the first time Ennis sees himself and Jack from the outside, as Jack wanted them to be, one entity, love making them indivisible..welshwitch you really have the most beautiful turn of phrase, that is simply lovely and brings me to tears. :\'(
The shirts are the outward and visible symbol of Jack-and-Ennis; seeing them in Jack's room is the first time Ennis sees himself and Jack from the outside, as Jack wanted them to be, one entity, love making them indivisible..
This has probably been discussed but I can't find it. Why would Ennis come downstairs with the shirts? Jack's mom invited him to go see Jack's room she did not tell him to rummage around and help himself to what ever he wanted. When I first read the story and found out he had the shirts at the end I thought he must have stollen them the way Jack took his shirt. I haven't read the screen play, was there more of an explanation there?
When Jack's mom told Ennis that he's welcome to go up to his room, I can't believe she thought he would just stand in the middle of it like a log. She knew he was going to look around, I'm sure she expected it, and Ennis probably realized that. When the guy I loved killed himself and his brothers were emptying his apartment and invited me to come over, it was clear to me that they invited me to look at his things and take something as a souveneer, if I want. Going up to Jack's bedroom, this is something very intimate. you don't offer that to everybody. and Jack's mom didn't go up there with Ennis, because she knew how emotional this moment is for him and that he needs his privacy.
When Ennis found the shirts, it was inevitable that he would take them. the shirts were a symbol of their love, of their relationship, of the way they were - like two skins, two in one. it belonged to them, not to Jack's parents. isn't it the most natural thing in the world that if someone dies and leaves behind a love suveneer, the person who should have it is his lover? for me it seemed the most natural thing that Ennis would take the shirts. and although the story doesn't say how exactly he got them, in the movie he didn't just take them - he asked for permission. not with words, but when he came down he looked at Jack's mom and slightly lifted his hand with the shirts, like saying "can I...?" and she gave him a little nod that meant to say "of course you can", and got him the paper bag.
i was going to post something but found something on Sunflower79's post before. that's what i think.
Ossana: The father’s talking about Jack—“Ennis Del Mar, he used to say.” The camera turns to Ennis and you see this little faint smile on his face, ’cause Jack was talking about him. Then the father says, “And then Jack was gonna bring another fellow up here.” And you go back to Ennis and his smile is gone. That’s when he realizes there was somebody else. That hurts too. But he knows in his innards that it’s his own fault. He can’t blame Jack for that anymore. And then he goes up to Jack’s room and he finds his old shirt hanging tucked inside Jack’s, and he realizes how much that man loved him—how deeply he loved him from the get-go.
so, i think that ennis could have many kind of feeling to see the shirts. he could be confused. happy to know that jack has mentioned him to his family. that is the real serious relationship, i believe. i won't add anyone to my family if i don't feel i want him/her in my life. even jack's wife has never seen jack's folks. however, ennis is heartbroken by knowing that there is someone else jack trys to 'quit' him after jack said he didn't know how. then, ennis finds that actully jack can't really quit when ennis sees the shirts. it's like the happy-sad-happy scene that i like. i also love the communication between ennis and jack's mother. could they be better? of course not.
...et alium paracletum dabit vobis ut maneat vobiscum in aeternum.
...et alium paracletum dabit vobis ut maneat vobiscum in aeternum.
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
And he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever.
There are so many hints that show that Jack's mom knows. She treats Ennis very tenderly, from the begining. Notice when she offers Ennis to go up to Jack's room - it's right after Jack's father reminds the other fella that Jack was going to bring up there. you see Ennis swallowing hard and the corner of his mouth quiver, like he's fighting not to cry, and then Jack's mom puts her hand on his shoulder very softly, like comforting him, and offers him to go up to Jack's room. The mere fact that she offered that is an indication she knew that Ennis loved her son and vice versa. I said it before, going to see the deceased bedroom is a very private and intimate act, you don't offer that to anybody who comes from the street, only to people who were the most close to the one who died. and you can see how important this gesture was to Ennis and how much he appreciated that.
Then, when he came down with the shirts and that silent communication between them. Taking the shirts was the first time that Ennis confessed to anybody how important Jack was to him, and what kind of feelings he had for him. taking someone's clothing item as a suveneer is also something very personal and very intimate, don't you think? Ennis taking Jack's shirt would've looked weird if they really were just "buddies" or co-workers or anything like that. by taking his shirt Ennis was saying "I had deep feelings for you son, he meant to me more than I can tell you, and these shirts have deep meaning for me and I want to keep them because I need something of his, something that was a part of him, to remember, to keep him close to me..." and by the look on Jack's mom's face you can see that it doesn't look weird to her, she understands completely because she knows they loved each other.
Finally, she says, "you come visit us again sometime..." and this is the final proof that she knew. why would she wanna see Ennis again? because she knows this is the man her son loved. and since she lost her son, this man is the closest person to him she got left. Ennis is a part of Jack, the most significant part of his life, and that makes him special for Jack's mom becasue she loved her son.
I also wanted to add that when Ennis comes down with the shirts, Jack's mom looks like she'd expected that. to me, her look and that little nod seem to say "oh, I see you've found them... yes, of course you can take them". some people were saying that when she offered Ennis to go up there she expected him to find the shirts, or at least hoped that would happen - while I'm not totally sure of it, I can't rule out the possibility.
There's a moment I particularly love in this scene. As Ennis is going out the door, he nods thanks again for the shirts. They lock eyes -- he actually turns slightly in a very subtle double-take when he sees her expression -- and they hold that look for maybe an extra half a second. In that moment she is telling him she understands, and offering one last wordless gesture of comfort.
And he gets it.
Probably the only sympathy Ennis will ever get from anyone in his relationship with Jack and it's for such a short duration.
umn... i have nothing to add. i wish i know how to quit BBM. %)
umn... i have nothing to add. i wish i know how to quit BBM. %)
Mon cher ami, love is so powerful, so frighteningly powerful, but who could live without it ? :^^)
Posiblemente Ennis sabia en el fondo de su corazon cuanto lo amaba Jack, pero no lo comprendio hasta ver ambas camisas unidas con sangre... esta escena me partio el corazon. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
Maybe Ennis know in the deep of his heart how much jack love him but he don't understand it until he saw both shirts joined with blood... this scene has broken my heart. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
Each shirt has its owner's blood, but their blood may also be mixed. I like to see it as such, and therefore as a kind of blood-brotherhood. It also reminds me of being a kid and sticking a needle in one's finger to sign some fearful oath or mix it with that of one's friends as part of some game or gang thing. Blood is a powerful link
He that sheds his blood with me today
Shall be my brother.
I believe it's only Ennis' blood on the shirts. Jack didn't bleed when they were fighting.
In any case, I feel that for Jack, it was like sharing Ennis's blood. The blood-stained shirt was an image of what Jack had become : his love for Ennis was like having Ennis's blood in his veins.
Aye, and Ennis's shirt is wrapped up in his just like Jack held Ennis inside him for 20 years (and I swear that is not meant to be suggestive at all ;))
In any case, I feel that for Jack, it was like sharing Ennis's blood. The blood-stained shirt was an image of what Jack had become : his love for Ennis was like having Ennis's blood in his veins.
I'm not too often the optimist, but I always felt that Ennis came alive in a way with Jack's death. In his dealing with his family, his being more in touch with his feelings and actually allowing himself to feel...grieve...love and furthermore, not being ashamed to show it with Jack's parents. Right away after finding the shirts, he is finally able to say it out loud..."I love you (even though a whisper).... Jack I swear". Kind of an awakening IMO.
DEad to the world in the sense of anyone new, maybe, but alive to the emotions inside himself and the knowledge of what Jack meant to him, with the shirts as a rminder of what he had meant to Jack.Beautifully put!
"'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all."
By Samuel Butler, then later Tennyson!
But it does sum up what I feel - Ennis knows, when he holds the shirts, what he had and what he's lost, but at least he ( and Jack) had it for a time.
Yes, Ennis's blood is the compact that is sealed with the shedding of Jack's blood later on... When Ennis bleeds, so does Jack. When Jack dies, so does Ennis.
Yes, Ennis's blood is the compact that is sealed with the shedding of Jack's blood later on... When Ennis bleeds, so does Jack. When Jack dies, so does Ennis.
But Ennis didn't die. After Jack's death Ennis was coming alive. He admitted to himself he was in love with Jack in Jack's closet. He was brave enough to take the shirts even though it meant admitting to the Twists his love for Jack. He agreed to go to his daughter's wedding. No, no, TPE, Ennis didn't die. He was coming alive.
I had missed the post from Patriot1 and frances.:\'( :\'(True...although enlightened, Ennis is heartbroken forevermore :\'( :\'(
It is my fault not to clarify what I and meant. I posted this point of view in another thread, and I should not assume that everyone follows all the threads here.
Ennis will never love anybody else the way he loved Jack (if we take the "I swear" to mean eternal fidelity, as Jake Gyllenhaal has implied in one of his interviews). Here, the door to this is forever closed. But as I had said in the other post, a closed door is an invitiation for the pilgrim to enter roads not explored, and in this sense, Ennis is alive.
Judging from the tenor of how the older Ennis is described in the first dream sequence of the short story, I doubt that Ennis opens up that much in later life. He continues to dream of Jack. He remains alone, although the choice is there to live for a short time with his daughter. His daughter's love he will have; a love like that between him and Jack: never again. In that sense, he is indeed dead.
What is love? How you can recognize? Well look in your closet if you find two shirts together with a little bit of blood, maybe you have find love, have you think about it? :s)
With best regards for all
I wonder if Jack actually told his mom about the shirts, or was it something "unspoken" btween them. This would be an interesting conversation.
Sometimes these very "treasures" are the ones we destroy when a relationship goes wrong; Jack kept the shirts. He goes back to Lightning Flat immediately after the confrontation with Ennsi, but he leaves the shirts where they are. And at least in his room there's no trace of Randall ( or anyone else) - Ennis is the only one he wants to remember.
Sometimes these very "treasures" are the ones we destroy when a relationship goes wrong; Jack kept the shirts. He goes back to Lightning Flat immediately after the confrontation with Ennsi, but he leaves the shirts where they are. And at least in his room there's no trace of Randall ( or anyone else) - Ennis is the only one he wants to remember.Good point Welshwitch, those shirts are his most prized possession. Nobody else, including Randall or Lureen could ever compare. Those shirts are golden.
I wonder if Christians of whatever complexion have grown up attuned to the idea of material things as symbols and assign the shirts an iconic significance that others might not? I don't know,I'm just curious.
Sometimes these very "treasures" are the ones we destroy when a relationship goes wrong; Jack kept the shirts. He goes back to Lightning Flat immediately after the confrontation with Ennsi, but he leaves the shirts where they are. And at least in his room there's no trace of Randall ( or anyone else) - Ennis is the only one he wants to remember.
I've imagined Jack so many times, bringing those shirts out of the hidey-hole and caressing them, smelling Ennis's, holding on to them reverently just as Ennis does later on. As long as those shirts were hidden in the back of his closet, it proved Jack still loved Ennis. As long as Jack loved Ennis, he'd hold on to the shirts and keep them safe.
Sometimes these very "treasures" are the ones we destroy when a relationship goes wrong; Jack kept the shirts. He goes back to Lightning Flat immediately after the confrontation with Ennsi, but he leaves the shirts where they are. And at least in his room there's no trace of Randall ( or anyone else) - Ennis is the only one he wants to remember.
I've imagined Jack so many times, bringing those shirts out of the hidey-hole and caressing them, smelling Ennis's, holding on to them reverently just as Ennis does later on. As long as those shirts were hidden in the back of his closet, it proved Jack still loved Ennis. As long as Jack loved Ennis, he'd hold on to the shirts and keep them safe.
Yes, but symbol aren't relics. Do other faiths go in for relics? I think we see the shirts in a sort of mediaeval way, like pieces of the True Cross or the handkerchief of St Veronica - I'm not sure whether adherents of other faiths would see them in the same way. There's also the fact that they're blood-stained - blood has powerful resonances in Christianity but does it have the same ones in other cultures? I don't know enough to say.
Watching BBM yesterday for the first time in almost a month, these moments when Ennis finds the shirts struck me differently than before.
Before had always broken down thinking about what Ennis was feeling at that moment. His pain, him clinging to the shirts because they were all that was left for him now, physical proof of Jack's love for him from the beginning.
This time, it also felt as if Ennis was claiming Jack, by taking those shirts into his arms. And thinkng of Jack watching Ennis do this, for once it wasn't only the heartbreak coming through. I could almost feel Jack resting more peacefully, content now because he'd also be thinking "Ennis ... you finally came for me. You're really here, for me". The way Ennis had never been able to do for Jack in life.
It seems right now that all I've ever done in my life is making my way here to you.
(The Bridges of Madison County )
Wonderful post. Thank you
MisRed, this is one of the most tearjerking but utterly beautiful posts i have read. It hadn't really occurred to me in that way before, i'm usually in a mess by then, but the way you have put it makes total sense. Thank you for a truly gorgeous post. ^f^
Watching BBM yesterday for the first time in almost a month, these moments when Ennis finds the shirts struck me differently than before.
Before had always broken down thinking about what Ennis was feeling at that moment. His pain, him clinging to the shirts because they were all that was left for him now, physical proof of Jack's love for him from the beginning.
This time, it also felt as if Ennis was claiming Jack, by taking those shirts into his arms. And thinkng of Jack watching Ennis do this, for once it wasn't only the heartbreak coming through. I could almost feel Jack resting more peacefully, content now because he'd also be thinking "Ennis ... you finally came for me. You're really here, for me". The way Ennis had never been able to do for Jack in life.
It seems right now that all I've ever done in my life is making my way here to you.
(The Bridges of Madison County )
Wonderful post. Thank you
MisRed, this is one of the most tearjerking but utterly beautiful posts i have read. It hadn't really occurred to me in that way before, i'm usually in a mess by then, but the way you have put it makes total sense. Thank you for a truly gorgeous post. ^f^thanks, aimi15! ^f^ But it's because of eveyone else here at ej that these things come to mind ... :^^)
And to me the shirts prove that Jack would've still saw Ennis, even if he tried to have a life with someone else. The shirts to me is like an unconditional love Jack had for Ennis and no one could change that. In the scene, after the flashback and the look on Jack's face, to me Jack is thinking that his dream with Ennis is dead. So he can try to find someone to share his sweet life. But the shirts prove Jack would've still saw Ennis even after trying to have a life with someone else. That is why I believe the November trip would've been the big ultimatum-the decision that would change the course of their entire relationship. If Ennis knew Jack was having a life w/ someone else, he would've been on fire. However, what Ennis would've done is totally left in the air. He probably would've killed Randall in his sleep. And have that life with Jack.Interesting point, browneyes, about Ennis being "on fire", and an apt choice of words, I think. :) For all that he's often spoken of as being the quiet one, his intensity does burn through, particularly in anything to do with his relationship with our Jack.
And to me the shirts prove that Jack would've still saw Ennis, even if he tried to have a life with someone else. The shirts to me is like an unconditional love Jack had for Ennis and no one could change that. In the scene, after the flashback and the look on Jack's face, to me Jack is thinking that his dream with Ennis is dead. So he can try to find someone to share his sweet life. But the shirts prove Jack would've still saw Ennis even after trying to have a life with someone else. That is why I believe the November trip would've been the big ultimatum-the decision that would change the course of their entire relationship. If Ennis knew Jack was having a life w/ someone else, he would've been on fire. However, what Ennis would've done is totally left in the air. He probably would've killed Randall in his sleep. And have that life with Jack.I do also believe that November would have been ultimatum month...Ennis let so much come to the surface at the final meeting and once you get that all out and show yourself like that...it is a huge relief. I truly feel those 2 had nowhere to go but up after that last meeting especially with Ennis initiating their next meeting so sweetly.
And to me the shirts prove that Jack would've still saw Ennis, even if he tried to have a life with someone else. The shirts to me is like an unconditional love Jack had for Ennis and no one could change that. In the scene, after the flashback and the look on Jack's face, to me Jack is thinking that his dream with Ennis is dead. So he can try to find someone to share his sweet life. But the shirts prove Jack would've still saw Ennis even after trying to have a life with someone else. That is why I believe the November trip would've been the big ultimatum-the decision that would change the course of their entire relationship. If Ennis knew Jack was having a life w/ someone else, he would've been on fire. However, what Ennis would've done is totally left in the air. He probably would've killed Randall in his sleep. And have that life with Jack.Interesting point, browneyes, about Ennis being "on fire", and an apt choice of words, I think. :) For all that he's often spoken of as being the quiet one, his intensity does burn through, particularly in anything to do with his relationship with our Jack.
Just the way that he switches the shirts around so that his own is now covering Jack's, speaks to the protective instincts he has always had inside, trying to keep Jack safe. Ultimately he had been unable to shield Jack from being hurt by the world - and indeed Ennis had a hand in the hurting, mortal blows aside. Sometimes I see this reversal of the shirts as being an apology to Jack for that hurt he suffered due to Ennis's fears, as well as a promise that Ennis's love would have been there for him always, regardless of those last words spoken.
Don't know that I think Ennis would go as far as to kill Randall in his sleep, though ... Now, in a bar fight maybe ... ;)
Like you, many of us want to believe that Ennis would one day have decided to have that sweet life with Jack ... and we can speculate on what might have one day made him change is mind .... left up in the air, as you say, because of Jack's life being cut short.
And what really breaks my heart is that it's possible Jack died thinking Ennis didn't want to see him again "why don't you just let me be". Can u just imagine how overjoyed Jack would've been to realize Ennis didn't mean that and still wanted to meet in November? The circumstances of Jack's dead is just really tragic. He didn't get to have that sweet life with Ennis. I still think bringing up Randall would've been a way to prove to Ennis he's really serious about moving on. And Ennis didn't know how Jack really felt about him until he found the shirts.It's so sad the Jack dead without Ennis near him and it's worst believe maybe Jack thinking Ennis leave him forever in his last moment, Whem he found the shirts, it's like Jack sould is telling..."Ennis my love, I was so afraid than you will never come back to me, but now you are to my side... I'm still here with you always...Jack i swear..."
There's a way of seeing the shirts as Jack's "message in a bottle" to Ennis. He could hardly leave him a letter ( in the careof Lureen or his parents?) but the shirts look on the surface just like two shirts, even if theone inside had been discovered. The only person they have significance for is Enns.I wonder if Jack had a presentimetn or idea that he might die young/be kiiled?
There's a way of seeing the shirts as Jack's "message in a bottle" to Ennis. He could hardly leave him a letter ( in the careof Lureen or his parents?) but the shirts look on the surface just like two shirts, even if theone inside had been discovered. The only person they have significance for is Enns.I wonder if Jack had a presentimetn or idea that he might die young/be kiiled?
I've never thought about it... but I don't think that was on Jack's mind, or that he expected Ennis to find the shirts. I always thought he kept them together like that because he wanted to remember the way they were together that summer on brokeback, and he put Ennis's shirt inside of his because he felt that Ennis was an inseperable part of him, inside him, like the story says - like two skins, one inside the other, two in one. he arranged the shirts the way he wanted him and Ennis to be in real life - one inside the other, two in one.
That's an interesting question about the postcards MissRed. The hopeless romantic in me says that they would both have kept the cards, hidden away somewhere safe. This seems to be the view that most fanfic writers have too - I've read bits about Jack finding the postcards that Ennis kept in quite a few fics (sorry, I know that's *o))
I actually just realised something: when Ennis goes to send the "you bet" postcard to Jack, he has Jack's address written on a scrap of paper but Jack wrote his address on the postcard so Ennis could have just taken that with him to the post office. Did he leave it behind because he didn't want anyone to see the card and think there was anything odd about it? Or did he leave it behind in order to avoid it getting damaged in any way, because it meant too much to him?
Ahdunno :s)
So Ennis becomes the knight, the one worthy to find the grail, and the shirts become the chalice, the receptacle for the blood, and his journey to Lightning Flat the quest. And Jack is the dead knight, killed by the dragon of hatred.
I love the Arthur myths and legends - sorry for dragging my obsessions into this. It just seems to fit.
Now I'm starting to prefer thinking of the shirts has being protected in that part of Jack's closet rather than hidden. Hidden would imply to me that maybe they were never meant to be found. Where they had rested all that time says to me they were being shielded from careless eyes, but were not meant to be so concealed that they couldn't be claimed when the right person, the one worthy, came seeking ...:\'( So true and well said
There's a way of seeing the shirts as Jack's "message in a bottle" to Ennis. He could hardly leave him a letter ( in the careof Lureen or his parents?) but the shirts look on the surface just like two shirts, even if theone inside had been discovered. The only person they have significance for is Enns.I wonder if Jack had a presentimetn or idea that he might die young/be kiiled?
I've never thought about it... but I don't think that was on Jack's mind, or that he expected Ennis to find the shirts. I always thought he kept them together like that because he wanted to remember the way they were together that summer on brokeback, and he put Ennis's shirt inside of his because he felt that Ennis was an inseperable part of him, inside him, like the story says - like two skins, one inside the other, two in one. he arranged the shirts the way he wanted him and Ennis to be in real life - one inside the other, two in one.
So Ennis becomes the knight, the one worthy to find the grail, and the shirts become the chalice, the receptacle for the blood, and his journey to Lightning Flat the quest. And Jack is the dead knight, killed by the dragon of hatred.
I love the Arthur myths and legends - sorry for dragging my obsessions into this. It just seems to fit.
I actually just realised something: when Ennis goes to send the "you bet" postcard to Jack, he has Jack's address written on a scrap of paper but Jack wrote his address on the postcard so Ennis could have just taken that with him to the post office.
I actually just realised something: when Ennis goes to send the "you bet" postcard to Jack, he has Jack's address written on a scrap of paper but Jack wrote his address on the postcard so Ennis could have just taken that with him to the post office.
Not sure if it matters to the discussion NoReins, but Jack's address was not on the post card he sent to Ennis. On the one side was a picture of a mountain and on the other was Ennis' address, albeit General Delivery, and the words, "Friend, this letter is long overdue. Coming through on the 24th. Drop me a line say if you're there. Jack". Ennis did have Jack's address written on brown paper. In another thread we discussed how Ennis would have gotten Jack's address seeing he was so thoughtless and did not put it on the postcard. I believe the concensus was that Ennis got it from the telephone company. Back in those days the telephone company would not only give you the number, but would give you the address the telephone was registered to, if that information was available. Jack owned a house, he had a telephone, so that information was easy to get. Of course it would have been better if he had put it on the post card, but...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe359%2FPatriotOne%2FJackPostcardtoEnnis-Reunion.jpg&hash=ad8d40fe7d2b4ca761ca3a0a84bc3806b650769d)
There are so many details that demand the willing suspension of disbelief - how Ennis got to Lightning Flat to find the shirts is another one, since I can't imagine Jack gave him the address.I suppose we have to assume the existence of phone books, mail services, directories, etc - it's just that neither seems the type to use reference sources or ask other people for info - Ennis certainly wouldn't want to draw attention to himself that way.
He didn't know what he was going to find, but he must have known it wouldn't be easy going to Jack's parents' home. Having made himself make the call, he then had to make himself make the journey - the shirts were by way of a reward and perhaps showed him that the unexpected can follow if you break your patterns. Which he does again when he agrees to go to Alma Jr's wedding.
He didn't know what he was going to find, but he must have known it wouldn't be easy going to Jack's parents' home. Having made himself make the call, he then had to make himself make the journey - the shirts were by way of a reward and perhaps showed him that the unexpected can follow if you break your patterns. Which he does again when he agrees to go to Alma Jr's wedding.
We merged your thread to this existing one so you could read what was discussed before :)
hi the title practically sums up what im asking. to me when ennis finds his blood stained shirt in jacks closet inside one of jacks jackets its not just symbolical because it shows jack craved ennis so much he needed to keep something with him at all times the main thing the shirts symbolise to me is in the final scene with ennis saying jack i swear i noticed that he had switched the to be over the jacket to me the shirt and jacket were a metaphor in jacks room when the jacket was over the shirt it was in away embrasing the shirt a metaphor for jack embrassing his love for ennis and the fact that ennis put the jacket over the shirt for me was a metaphor that ennis had finally embrasses his love for jack. if i didnt make sence there please ask me to elaborate i feel strongly about this and would hate for people to not understand what im saying
Yes, I think it was Diana Ossana who said in an interview that it was Heath's idea to switch the shirts. And I agree with you Tony, he understood the deep love in the story and became a part of it, completely. Who else would've thought of something like that? Such sensitivity, such insight, such depth.
It was Heath's idea to do that? Switch the shirts? Damn, Keren, just take out a gun and shoot me. Get it over with. That little piece of
information is absolute proof Heath understood the love, became a part of it, and developed it with extreme respect. There goes any theory
he was just a brilliant actor exploring a difficult role. He was a lover. He knew what a deep love could provoke. I wonder how much more of
the final vision of enduring love--was Heath's?
Yes, I think it was Diana Ossana who said in an interview that it was Heath's idea to switch the shirts. . . .
Yes, Diana was quoted in the recent Heath Ledger tribute issue of the Advocate:
"One of my most endearing memories of working with Heath on the set was the day we filmed the final scene in Brokeback. Before the first take, Heath walked over to me, a big smile on his face, and said, "I think you're going to like what I've done with this scene" . . . I watched the monitors roll . . . and realized that Heath had chosen to reverse the order of those shirts . . . Such was Heath's commitment to the truth of our story and to the rawness and depth of his portrayal."
It will never get any better than this, this dedication and understanding to ones craft. How fortunate we are to have seen (and felt) this level of commitment. I think we can all see Heath walking over to Diana with that big smile, his energy radiating from that small trailer onto screens around the world.
I love reading things like this. Yes I can see his big beautiful smile and now I think I'm gonna cry :(
yer hearing all the wonderful things about heath is nice because he was such a great guy and its a great way to remember him but at the same time its sad because it reminds you of the loss. :\'(
I'm happy for a wile but then I remeber that he's no longer with us and that just feels wrong. It wasn't his time, just like It wasn't Jack's time in the movie, he should have lived a happy life with Ennis. and Heath should have lived a happy life with Matilda :\'(
too true enzam i'd like to say to you what ellen said to jake. "your so thoughtful, your cute and thooughtful to, you could just be cute but thoughtful" this is what i say to you, lol
I say the same thing about you :)
lol cheers.
i might post a pic of myself on hear im just worried i scare people lol
I would love to see what you look like, I don't think you will scare anyone
i wouldnt be so sure i will get a photo put up later and you'll see what i mean lol i have a webcam but i always look like a dofus on the photos it takes lol
this is *o) but I don't think you do
Until Ennis saw the two shirts in Jacks room do you think he really knew how much Jack loved him and that it was more than a deep sexual friendship?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Brokies the last posts here are really off topic. There are plenty of places to chat on this forum but please not here. Thanks! :)
I really feel that Ennis knew Jack loved him before the shirts. 20 years is a long time not to know this or at least have a strong suspicion. I think for Ennis it was more of the discovery of the depth of the love, but just as impotantly Ennis finally making the silent confession to himself that he loved Jack just as much.
ennis deffinately knew jack loved him and i think jack new ennis loved him its just ennis was less showing of the fact
ennis deffinately knew jack loved him and i think jack new ennis loved him its just ennis was less showing of the fact
I think Jack only became truly aware of this in the last confrontation.
I think Ennis only became truly aware of this when he found the shirts inside the closet.
I wonder, too, Tony. I always wondered who set up the scene in the motel where Ennis is leaning back on Jack's chest with Jack's arm around him so Ennis could continually stroke Jack's arm. To me, that is one of the most erotic actions in the film. I don't know if it was Heath's idea, or Ang's, or who, but it sure got to me. It's another instance of that little something extra that raises that scene to unscalable heights. If we ever doubted their love for one another, that position and little action proved it.Yes,I've always wanted to know in what measure actors contribute with their own ideas in these little actions and signals that initially aren't in the book and,perhaps,in the script either.I've already know that that one was Heath's idea and I find it superb,because for me it's a kind of showing his love for Jack,even if he's not already by his side.But also a kind of giving him the protection in death than he wasn't able to give him in live.For me it's as if he swear he's going to protect his love's memory for the Eternity,I don't know if this makes sense...
I think so too. Ennis never showed any feelings like that before and in a way I think that it ment something for Jack.
It was a part of Ennis's stoicism not to show his emotions, no? He thought it was a way to show strength, when in fact it showed a fundamental weakness...
It was a part of Ennis's stoicism not to show his emotions, no? He thought it was a way to show strength, when in fact it showed a fundamental weakness...
Stoicism is showing and indifference to either pleasure or pain -- i.e., taking life as it comes. Ennis tries to show this many times, but we do know that it is all a facade, by the way he breaks down in the alley, or the way he breaks down in the final confrontation.
Relating to the scene in the closet with the shirts, we see the true Ennis, engulfed in a quiet sea of sadness. That's what he truly was inside, and not the stoic he wanted people to see.
Stoicism is showing and indifference to either pleasure or pain -- i.e., taking life as it comes. Ennis tries to show this many times, but we do know that it is all a facade, by the way he breaks down in the alley, or the way he breaks down in the final confrontation.Ennis was building a kind of indifference wall around him to protect him from his social environment that was aggressive against same-sex relationship.But at the end,this wall turned into a way of protecting against himself:against his inner feelings and wishes,against his own fear of "getting mad" and throw stones against this wall until break it down.That's to say,letting all behind and living the sweet life with Jack,what he really wished in spite of himself...But all the walls,as high and strong they could be,fall before evidences,as in the closet scene.What a great struggle with himself had this manˇ.
Relating to the scene in the closet with the shirts, we see the true Ennis, engulfed in a quiet sea of sadness. That's what he truly was inside, and not the stoic he wanted people to see.
Ennis was building a kind of indifference wall around him to protect him from his social environment that was aggressive against same-sex relationship.But at the end,this wall turned into a way of protecting against himself:against his inner feelings and wishes,against his own fear of "getting mad" and throw stones against this wall until break it down.That's to say,letting all behind and living the sweet life with Jack,what he really wished in spite of himself...But all the walls,as high and strong they could be,fall before evidences,as in the closet scene.What a great struggle with himself had this manˇ.
Very beautifully stated.