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Author Topic: scenes of observation  (Read 141543 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #180 on: Aug 22, 2008, 05:52 PM »
Quote from: Ranchand1 on Aug 22, 2008, 05:47 PM
     I think so.

    Like the sweetest, pain.  The double edge sword.  Cant have it one way without the other.  Yin/Yang.  Good/Evil....someone stop me.

    Like ...the good times wouldn't be so good if you didn't have the bad times to compare em too.

   Maybe thats why God put us here.  In light of eternity we will have known the evil of going our own way.  Heaven is much sweeter knowing what hell was/is like.  That his way,  was best after all.   

   Just a thought.  thanks tpe...

Joy cannot be cherished without having first plumbed the depths of despair.

Thanks Ranchand1. 
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #181 on: Aug 23, 2008, 01:30 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Aug 22, 2008, 08:41 AM
A "perfect" relationship is one that is not perfect.  I know this sound paradoxical, but do you get what I mean here?


Yup. It's what Dr. Phil called creative friction.... the differences in opinions that generates creativity, that lifts both up to a higher plane. Life is paradoxical, so I think what you said must be truth ... Truth.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #182 on: Aug 23, 2008, 01:32 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Aug 22, 2008, 05:52 PM
Joy cannot be cherished without having first plumbed the depths of despair.

Thanks Ranchand1. 

Wow, this is beautifully said, tpe.  O0 It reminds me of Aaron watching Julie's music video...and hearing the last phrase...to remember you...a watch of gold...and a kiss in snow. Then to find Chris in the restaurant... :\'( <^(
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Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #183 on: Aug 25, 2008, 07:53 AM »
Quote from: lancecowboy on Aug 23, 2008, 01:30 AM
Yup. It's what Dr. Phil called creative friction.... the differences in opinions that generates creativity, that lifts both up to a higher plane. Life is paradoxical, so I think what you said must be truth ... Truth.

This is perfectly said.

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Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #184 on: Aug 25, 2008, 07:54 AM »
Quote from: lancecowboy on Aug 23, 2008, 01:32 AM
Wow, this is beautifully said, tpe.  O0 It reminds me of Aaron watching Julie's music video...and hearing the last phrase...to remember you...a watch of gold...and a kiss in snow. Then to find Chris in the restaurant... :\'( <^(

OT: Don't get me going on Latter Days, lance!  :)    That is another example where we see the "friction" you talk about beautifully elucidated, as it was on BBM...
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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #185 on: Aug 25, 2008, 11:47 AM »
Quote from: Baby Tammy on Aug 15, 2008, 09:49 AM
I know I posted this in the Ennis Del Mar pics thread, but I'd like to post it here too because I think that "this" is really interesting and unique and I wish I could get an answer from some of you about what that pillow means. I can't stop think about that since I found it. It gives me so many goosebumps every time I see it.

I quote myself, sorry.  ^f^


Have you noticed THOSE PILLOWS? One grey and the other one white? The grey one seems to be the one Ennis used every night because it's grey from using it so much, and it's all wrinkle and wasted......But the pure white one is immaculate, clean and without wrinkles......So it's obvious that Ennis didn't use it....

But then, why Ennis slept with two pillows? I know that some people do that, but they use BOTH pillows......but it seems to me that Ennis didn't ever touch that pillow, and still he had it with him, in his bed.....

Is that pillow for his Jack?  :\'( :\'( :\'( What that pristine pillow means?

I wish someone of the brokies met Diana O. had asked her about this.

I must say,even if it's already a little late,that I'd never realised this detail of the two pillows.Well done,Tammy,congratulations¡. :clap:  Now that you've notice it,I'm almost absolutely sure that the second pillow was reserved for Jack; as a kind of the living together that Ennis never could give him being alive.Now that he was gone,and nobody could put them in danger,when nobody is watching him,Ennis "celebrates" his daily marriage and vow of fidelity and love to Jack.And the tangible symbol of this compromise is this white pillow,that Jack would use if Ennis had said "yes"before and that nobody else than his memory and his spirit can use now,when Ennis has already said "yes",but too late...That's it¡ Oh,my¡... :\'( :\'( :\'(

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Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #186 on: Sep 08, 2008, 08:52 PM »
 So I was driving around before and Jack's voice popped into my head. It's a stray thought so I wasn't sure where to post it. I heard him saying "You know, I'm commutin' four hours a day" and it hit me that he was "complaining" (maybe lamenting is the right word) about the distance and the travel he had to do to get to camp (and see Ennis  ;) ) and yet this same man later drove hundreds of miles and countless hours to see Ennis. Then my mind flashed to that scene where he is looking towards camp and can see the fire and how they were only an hour apart and that seemed like too great a distance back in '63 and it just hit all over again how impossible it must've been to be so damn far apart after the mountain which is why, without complaint greater distances were traveled.


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“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

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Offline FlwrChild

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #187 on: Sep 08, 2008, 09:01 PM »
I hadn't really put the two together before LJN. But you're right. Those small inconveniences riled Jack on the mountain. He complained about all the little things that summer (just to blow the steam off, imo) but then he put up with so many bigger obstacles so stoically for all those years without ever complaining. Until the final confrontation.  :-\\ Just goes to show how important Ennis was to him and that to Jack he was worth all of those miles and all that heartache.
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For a moment in our lives. Forever in our hearts.

"They were respectful of each other’s opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected." ~ BBM Short Story

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The first way is to be kind. The second way is to be kind. The third way is to be kind. (Mister Rogers)

Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #188 on: Sep 09, 2008, 08:44 AM »
I agree with LJN's observation.  For me, it was clear that the complaint about commuting 4 hours a day was simply a ruse to get Ennis in the same place with him at night.  The latter 14 hour commute certainly highlights this complaint as such.  :)

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babytammy7

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #189 on: Sep 09, 2008, 10:19 AM »
Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Sep 08, 2008, 08:52 PM
So I was driving around before and Jack's voice popped into my head. It's a stray thought so I wasn't sure where to post it. I heard him saying "You know, I'm commutin' four hours a day" and it hit me that he was "complaining" (maybe lamenting is the right word) about the distance and the travel he had to do to get to camp (and see Ennis  ;) ) and yet this same man later drove hundreds of miles and countless hours to see Ennis. Then my mind flashed to that scene where he is looking towards camp and can see the fire and how they were only an hour apart and that seemed like too great a distance back in '63 and it just hit all over again how impossible it must've been to be so damn far apart after the mountain which is why, without complaint greater distances were traveled.

Quote from: FlwrChild on Sep 08, 2008, 09:01 PM
I hadn't really put the two together before LJN. But you're right. Those small inconveniences riled Jack on the mountain. He complained about all the little things that summer (just to blow the steam off, imo) but then he put up with so many bigger obstacles so stoically for all those years without ever complaining. Until the final confrontation.  :-\\ Just goes to show how important Ennis was to him and that to Jack he was worth all of those miles and all that heartache.

God, that's so true....He was bitching about four hours...and then he spent 16 years driving 14 hours to see the love of his life. Who had told Jack when he bitched about those 4 hours that he would drive 14 hours without any complain any time? Life is so ironic....

You both are right. Jack loved so so much Ennis that all those miles were nothing but dust and sun to him. No obstacle in the world could stop him from seeing Ennis.  :\'( :\'( :\'(

Thank you for this, sweeties.  :^^)
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2008, 11:50 AM by Baby Tammy »
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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #190 on: Sep 09, 2008, 11:45 AM »
I suppose he was bitching when the distance-even very little-separated him from somebody who was an incognite still in his future,and who he wished to be no more an incognite.. But a distance several times bigger wasn't a real separation when this somebody was already a reality.Like the song says there's no mountain high enough,there's no river wide enough...,there's no distance great enough that can separate two persons who love each other.
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Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #191 on: Sep 10, 2008, 08:26 AM »
I think Jack wasn't particularly trying to hide his true motives, no?  Perhaps he wanted it this way so as to give a broader hint to Ennis -- and my feeling is that Ennis invariably took the bait (whther or not he did this deliberately.)

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babytammy7

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #192 on: Sep 10, 2008, 08:42 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Sep 10, 2008, 08:26 AM
I think Jack wasn't particularly trying to hide his true motives, no?  Perhaps he wanted it this way so as to give a broader hint to Ennis -- and my feeling is that Ennis invariably took the bait (whther or not he did this deliberately.)



I agree Thomas!! That's why when Ennis said that he could go with the ship if Jack didn't want to do it anymore, Jack said that they BOTH should stay at camp. Jack was being obvious. He wanted both of them together all time!!
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Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #193 on: Sep 10, 2008, 08:57 AM »
Quote from: Baby Tammy on Sep 10, 2008, 08:42 AM
I agree Thomas!! That's why when Ennis said that he could go with the ship if Jack didn't want to do it anymore, Jack said that they BOTH should stay at camp. Jack was being obvious. He wanted both of them together all time!!

Ennis was coy.  ;)  But I think he knew what was afoot but was a bit abashed to put it all out in the open. 
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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #194 on: Sep 15, 2008, 02:44 AM »
1. Ennis was copying Jack's address onto his "you bet" postcard using a small piece of wrinkled paper with Jack's address on it....not from Jack's postcard.

 2. What does "special delivery" imply?

 3. Ironically, Alma goes from doing laundry on an old washboard to living above a laundromat.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #195 on: Sep 16, 2008, 12:41 AM »
Quote from: aintfoolin on Sep 15, 2008, 02:44 AM
1. Ennis was copying Jack's address onto his "you bet" postcard using a small piece of wrinkled paper with Jack's address on it....not from Jack's postcard.

 2. What does "special delivery" imply?

 3. Ironically, Alma goes from doing laundry on an old washboard to living above a laundromat.

Was it special delivery or was it General delivery? I gather you meant the scene when Alma told Ennis about the first post card. "It arrived general delivery." I think it means that Jack didn't know Ennis' address, and general delivery in a small town can usually have the letter arriving in the correct address. Not sure  if it would work in a large city, since many people would have the same name. Then again, not many Ennis Del Mar, any where. I think it's unique, even in big cities. In fact, I am curious to know if there is ANYONE named Ennis Del Mar living before Brokeback Mountain. That'd be awesome, especially if he's also a cowboy.  <^(
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Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #196 on: Sep 16, 2008, 07:53 AM »
Quote from: aintfoolin on Sep 15, 2008, 02:44 AM
1. Ennis was copying Jack's address onto his "you bet" postcard using a small piece of wrinkled paper with Jack's address on it....not from Jack's postcard.

 2. What does "special delivery" imply?

 3. Ironically, Alma goes from doing laundry on an old washboard to living above a laundromat.

Wonderful observations: 1 and 3.  I was not vareful enough to notice 1 until you mentioned it here.  And as for 3: what an irony!

« Last Edit: Sep 16, 2008, 08:19 AM by tpe »
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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #197 on: Sep 16, 2008, 08:14 AM »
 Yes, I meant "General Delivery" , thank you lancecowboy for clearing that up.
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..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #198 on: Sep 16, 2008, 10:01 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Sep 16, 2008, 07:53 AM
Wonderful observations: 1 and 3.  I was not vareful enough to notice 1 until you mentioned it here.  And as for 3: what an irony!

I didn't notice either before; maybe did Ennis want to "own" more properly Jack's address? I mean,hidding it from Alma's sight,having it as something "more of him",more personal...
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Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #199 on: Sep 17, 2008, 09:07 AM »
Quote from: myprivatejack on Sep 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
I didn't notice either before; maybe did Ennis want to "own" more properly Jack's address? I mean,hidding it from Alma's sight,having it as something "more of him",more personal...

I find this in stark contrast to Jack, who kept names and addresses in his head...

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Offline atalley

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #200 on: Sep 20, 2008, 08:57 PM »
Did anyone else think that Lureen said "in his hat"?  Also, after "What the hell happened Ennis?"  it sounded like Ennis said "beer" instead of bear.  (My husband even asked about that one). :c)
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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #201 on: Sep 21, 2008, 01:06 AM »
Quote from: myprivatejack on Sep 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
I didn't notice either before; maybe did Ennis want to "own" more properly Jack's address? I mean,hidding it from Alma's sight,having it as something "more of him",more personal...

 So Ennis hid the postcards from Alma ( who usally got the mail) , copied Jack's address on a little peice of scrap paper and probably kept it in his wallet/pocket? Fortunatly Alma was not one to start trouble. She knew the true nature of the relationship, AND Jack's address in Texas. I don't know how Jack recieved his mail from Ennis, but I wonder if Lureen  would be as "understanding".?  All Ennis's attempts to hide the relationship from Alma was for nil, she already knew, but just in case she banned Ennis from ever seeing /corresponding with Jack again,  or hid Jack's  postcards  from Ennis, "fishing buddy" or not, Ennis still had Jack's address written on a little slip of paper.  ;) :) ;)
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Offline smartestsonia

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #202 on: Sep 21, 2008, 02:42 PM »
Quote from: lancecowboy on Aug 23, 2008, 01:30 AM
Yup. It's what Dr. Phil called creative friction.... the differences in opinions that generates creativity, that lifts both up to a higher plane. Life is paradoxical, so I think what you said must be truth ... Truth.
wow..well said...opposites attract....
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Offline rimasworld

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #203 on: Sep 22, 2008, 12:34 AM »
Quote from: atalley on Sep 20, 2008, 08:57 PM
Did anyone else think that Lureen said "in his hat"?  Also, after "What the hell happened Ennis?"  it sounded like Ennis said "beer" instead of bear.  (My husband even asked about that one). :c)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline FlwrChild

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #204 on: Sep 22, 2008, 06:31 AM »
Yes, it sounded like "hat" to me too.  ;D And I thought "That can't be right."

Interestingly enough, I really didn't have that much trouble understanding either of them most of the time, even sweet mumbling Ennis, so I was surprised by how many people said they couldn't understand a word he said.
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For a moment in our lives. Forever in our hearts.

"They were respectful of each other’s opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected." ~ BBM Short Story

There are three ways to ultimate success:
The first way is to be kind. The second way is to be kind. The third way is to be kind. (Mister Rogers)

Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #205 on: Sep 22, 2008, 07:56 AM »
Someone should probably check the screenplay again -- yes, it did sound like "hat", but I assumed it was just the heavy accent and took it to be "head".  :)

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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #206 on: Oct 02, 2008, 06:10 AM »
I can understand the accent , but why would Jack keep his friends' addresses in his hat? LOL!

 !. Neither was invited, nor attended the other's wedding.

 2. Ennis has Thanksgiving dinner with his pregnant ex-wife and her new husband...very cozy...until he goes ballistic on Alma threateniing to make her and Monroe "eat the f*&#kin floor" defending Jack's honor.

 3. Excuses to wives:...

Lureen :    " Why can't your friend come down here to Texas and fish?
 Jack:, " The Bighorn Mts. aint in Texas, besides, I don't think his truck can make it down here..." (believable)

Alma:    Your friend can't come up for a cup of coffee?
Ennis: "He's from Texas". ( unbelievable). ;D

4. Cliff jumping in the nude?  WOW! 8) :*( 8) Crazy in love.
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Offline rimasworld

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #207 on: Oct 02, 2008, 12:57 PM »
Quote from: aintfoolin on Oct 02, 2008, 06:10 AM
I can understand the accent , but why would Jack keep his friends' addresses in his hat? LOL!

 !. Neither was invited, nor attended the other's wedding.

 2. Ennis has Thanksgiving dinner with his pregnant ex-wife and her new husband...very cozy...until he goes ballistic on Alma threateniing to make her and Monroe "eat the f*&#kin floor" defending Jack's honor.

 3. Excuses to wives:...

Lureen :    " Why can't your friend come down here to Texas and fish?
 Jack:, " The Bighorn Mts. aint in Texas, besides, I don't think his truck can make it down here..." (believable)

Alma:    Your friend can't come up for a cup of coffee?
Ennis: "He's from Texas". ( unbelievable). ;D

4. Cliff jumping in the nude?  WOW! 8) :*( 8) Crazy in love.

Yep, Jack could definitely make up better excuses but poor dear Ennis who had trouble putting any feelings into words was almost laughable trying to put something over on Alma. For sure.. crazy in love our Ennis was.
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Offline pattyjean

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #208 on: Oct 02, 2008, 06:13 PM »
Some of the previous posts show that certain lines in the movie are difficult to understand.  Using subtitles from the DVD helped me a lot!  (However, some of the subtitles were most definitely incorrect--ie., middle-aged Jack mentioned Childress, and the subtitle showed Rutters!?) 

Could NOT understand what Jack said to Ennis after he shot the elk.  The subtitle clarified this, and I paraphrase: "Better git to it!  Don't want Game and Fish to catch us with no elk!"

I observed this on another thread:  Ennis is shirtless and about to "warsh everything (he) can reach."  On a pile of logs in the background are Ennis' coat, shirt, and a clean pair of jeans!  Yea!  Love the way Jack and Ennis bathed, washed clothes and shaved daily--to make themselves even more tantalizing! :P
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Offline tpe

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Re: scenes of observation
« Reply #209 on: Oct 13, 2008, 08:17 AM »
Quote from: rimasworld on Oct 02, 2008, 12:57 PM
Yep, Jack could definitely make up better excuses but poor dear Ennis who had trouble putting any feelings into words was almost laughable trying to put something over on Alma. For sure.. crazy in love our Ennis was.

THis is certainly true -- Jack was the one who seemed to make his excuses quite well, especially when compared with Ennis...  Another interesting point of comparison, no?

 
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