Topic: When Jack got mad...

[manhattangirl]

In a way, Ennis was blaming Jack for revealing to him who he really was, no?   It is a poigniant counter to jack's anger, and revealed a lot about the nature of Ennis's conflict and strange ambivalence towards his meetings with Jack.  It was enough to quiet Jack's anger, it seemed...

Sure it was, and that's how it worked between them, Jack pushes, Ennis gets angry, Jack backs down.  It was this way they left the mountain, in '63, Ennis knocks Jack flat on his back, when Ennis makes the wisecrack about him, Lureen and Alma living together in Texas, and the final confrontation., this time Jack was at that point of making a decision, what we don't know,  but he was at some kind of crossroad.     

[tpe]

Sure it was, and that's how it worked between them, Jack pushes, Ennis gets angry, Jack backs down.  It was this way they left the mountain, in '63, Ennis knocks Jack flat on his back, when Ennis makes the wisecrack about him, Lureen and Alma living together in Texas, and the final confrontation., this time Jack was at that point of making a decision, what we don't know,  but he was at some kind of crossroad.     

Jack's burst of anger certainly signalled a turning point, IMO.  And yes, in almost every instance prior to this, he backs down or withdraws.  This is what makes Jack's anger in this scene particularly noteworthy.  The only other instance we see him really angry in in the Thanksgiving scene, which also marked a turning point, no?

[MarieMJS]

Absolutely, I had the feeling that the thanksgiving outburst was his way of dealing with the impossibility of dealing with Ennis... With Newsome, it's more annoyment than attachment, he can have this power of decision, and he's tired of people ruling his life in any ways possible. If at least he can fight back the father in law thing, that makes one thing less to think about, in an already pretty messed up scheme...

Great script intention, IMO

[Matt Nasty]

Absolutely, I had the feeling that the thanksgiving outburst was his way of dealing with the impossibility of dealing with Ennis... With Newsome, it's more annoyment than attachment, he can have this power of decision, and he's tired of people ruling his life in any ways possible. If at least he can fight back the father in law thing, that makes one thing less to think about, in an already pretty messed up scheme...

Great script intention, IMO

i agree

[aintfoolin]

Absolutely, I had the feeling that the thanksgiving outburst was his way of dealing with the impossibility of dealing with Ennis... With Newsome, it's more annoyment than attachment, he can have this power of decision, and he's tired of people ruling his life in any ways possible. If at least he can fight back the father in law thing, that makes one thing less to think about, in an already pretty messed up scheme...

Great script intention, IMO

I feel that Jack's anger in the Thanksgiving scene is out of frustration over Ld trying to inject what is his idea of what constitutes being " a man" onto his own son. LD has made no secret about how he feels about Jack. To have his masculinity questioned in front of his son was the last straw in this on going war of wills between these two. Again, it a control factor. Constantly living by some one else's rules. His attempt to assert himself as a father are being thawrted  at a time when Jack's self-esteem is at an all time low. Freshly rejected by Ennis in the divorce scene again he is backed into a corner. When he is backed into a corner, Jack comes out fighting tooth and nail.  Jack may have even shocked himself here, humbling  and threatening the arrogant "stud duck", but he was very much justified in his anger.  Self preservation and pride was sometimes all Jack had left. . When Jack got mad, it worked for him.  When he finally puts his foot down, it also humbled Ennis in the last confrontation. Hell hath no fury like a Jack Twist scorned I suppose, these two "tough guys" learned a lesson by pushing their control too far. A fighter he was.

[Matt Nasty]

I feel that Jack's anger in the Thanksgiving scene is out of frustration over Ld trying to inject what is his idea of what constitutes being " a man" onto his own son. LD has made no secret about how he feels about Jack. To have his masculinity questioned in front of his son was the last straw in this on going war of wills between these two. Again, it a control factor. Constantly living by some one else's rules. His attempt to assert himself as a father are being thawrted  at a time when Jack's self-esteem is at an all time low. Freshly rejected by Ennis in the divorce scene again he is backed into a corner. When he is backed into a corner, Jack comes out fighting tooth and nail.  Jack may have even shocked himself here, humbling  and threatening the arrogant "stud duck", but he was very much justified in his anger.  Self preservation and pride was sometimes all Jack had left. . When Jack got mad, it worked for him.  When he finally puts his foot down, it also humbled Ennis in the last confrontation. Hell hath no fury like a Jack Twist scorned I suppose, these two "tough guys" learned a lesson by pushing their control too far. A fighter he was.

good post it makes alot of sense i think anyone would be angry with LD the way he was the whole men should watch foot ball crap LD clearly was making some form of insult towards jack's masculitinity and was out of order i think jacks out bursts were more to with him being so calm then being an angry person, what im trying to say is jack kept his cool with everything as long as he could but when he did snap he exploded all at once which i can relate too its very much the way i am.

[manhattangirl]

These posts are so interesting.  Jack struggle was his identity as a man and not his sexuality, whereas Ennis was his sexuality and his fear, and not his identity as a man.  Jack was found himself fighting on two fronts.  The first, just demanding respect, as a man and all that comes with it, his home, his work, his family, standing up and taking the carving knives, at his  home on Thanksgiving was, for me, Jack's Independence day.  Second the fight for the love of a man, who couldn't get pass the fear of that love, and all it means, again Jack stands up.  Jack finds finally speaking up and speaking out even at the risk of losing was worth more than just letting it slide hoping that things will get better, it doesn't.  Was it worth it?  LD sat down at the table, and Ennis fell to his knees.   

Jack should have gotten "mad"  years ago, but fear silence him.   

[babytammy7]

These posts are so interesting.  Jack struggle was his identity as a man and not his sexuality, whereas Ennis was his sexuality and his fear, and not his identity as a man.  Jack was found himself fighting on two fronts.  The first, just demanding respect, as a man and all that comes with it, his home, his work, his family, standing up and taking the carving knives, at his  home on Thanksgiving was, for me, Jack's Independence day.  Second the fight for the love of a man, who couldn't get pass the fear of that love, and all it means, again Jack stands up.  Jack finds finally speaking up and speaking out even at the risk of losing was worth more than just letting it slide hoping that things will get better, it doesn't.  Was it worth it?  LD sat down at the table, and Ennis fell to his knees.   

Jack should have gotten "mad"  years ago, but fear silence him.   

Utterly beautiful MG!!!

[aintfoolin]

These posts are so interesting.  Jack struggle was his identity as a man and not his sexuality, whereas Ennis was his sexuality and his fear, and not his identity as a man.  Jack was found himself fighting on two fronts.  The first, just demanding respect, as a man and all that comes with it, his home, his work, his family, standing up and taking the carving knives, at his  home on Thanksgiving was, for me, Jack's Independence day.  Second the fight for the love of a man, who couldn't get pass the fear of that love, and all it means, again Jack stands up.  Jack finds finally speaking up and speaking out even at the risk of losing was worth more than just letting it slide hoping that things will get better, it doesn't.  Was it worth it?  LD sat down at the table, and Ennis fell to his knees.   

Jack should have gotten "mad"  years ago, but fear silence him.   

It's absolutly true MG, I agree. Jack was fighting for his identity as a man. Who he was, and respect for who he was. In the Thanksgiving scene it was his house, his family, his son, his TV, and his son. At first it was he who started to take control  as head of his household and carve the turkey until LD took it upon himself to assert himself, fine, Jack was willing to concede this small act of carving a turkey, no big deal, then things turn ugly when Jack gave an inch and LD decides to to take a mile, pushing Jack to defend who  he was as *man of the house* and *king of his castle*. With LD it was this respect he sought.

 In the confrontation scene,  it's a little more complex ,again Jack fights to be heard and recognized, not so much for being a man, but for equality and respect  in his relationship with Ennis. I don't feel that Ennis was questioning Jack's masculinity as much as he was Jack's faithfulness/loyalty, which I feel Ennis equated with a certain weakness in Jack. Jack's inability to * hold out* as he was doing. Never the less, Jack felt threatened over the control over who he was and his right to have human vulnerabilities. Attacking him over this proved futile for Ennis. Jack had many weapons in his arsenal so to speak to fight back with.  20 years worth.With out throwing punches, his words proved more leathal for Ennis going to the heart of Ennis's rationale. Years of pent up frustration spilled out finally putting Ennis in his place and bringing him to his knees in a total break-down/ surrender to Jack like his life depended on it. He felt exposed but I feel he knew Jack was right.

In both cases, Ennis and LD found that if one raises the ire in Jack , he became a force to be reckoned with and was right and justified in his reasoning. I believe that for a long time Jack wanted to see the good in people and had a big heart for the underdog, being one himself, but he was'nt dumb. Things had to make sense for him. When it did'nt, he tried to right the wrong to bring focus. Sometimes it worked , sometimes not. I agree, to a fault he kept silent for too long. When he got mad, things changed. 2 cents

[Matt Nasty]

It's absolutly true MG, I agree. Jack was fighting for his identity as a man. Who he was, and respect for who he was. In the Thanksgiving scene it was his house, his family, his son, his TV, and his son. At first it was he who started to take control  as head of his household and carve the turkey until LD took it upon himself to assert himself, fine, Jack was willing to concede this small act of carving a turkey, no big deal, then things turn ugly when Jack gave an inch and LD decides to to take a mile, pushing Jack to defend who  he was as *man of the house* and *king of his castle*. With LD it was this respect he sought.

 In the confrontation scene,  it's a little more complex ,again Jack fights to be heard and recognized, not so much for being a man, but for equality and respect  in his relationship with Ennis. I don't feel that Ennis was questioning Jack's masculinity as much as he was Jack's faithfulness/loyalty, which I feel Ennis equated with a certain weakness in Jack. Jack's inability to * hold out* as he was doing. Never the less, Jack felt threatened over the control over who he was and his right to have human vulnerabilities. Attacking him over this proved futile for Ennis. Jack had many weapons in his arsenal so to speak to fight back with.  20 years worth.With out throwing punches, his words proved more leathal for Ennis going to the heart of Ennis's rationale. Years of pent up frustration spilled out finally putting Ennis in his place and bringing him to his knees in a total break-down/ surrender to Jack like his life depended on it. He felt exposed but I feel he knew Jack was right.

In both cases, Ennis and LD found that if one raises the ire in Jack , he became a force to be reckoned with and was right and justified in his reasoning. I believe that for a long time Jack wanted to see the good in people and had a big heart for the underdog, being one himself, but he was'nt dumb. Things had to make sense for him. When it did'nt, he tried to right the wrong to bring focus. Sometimes it worked , sometimes not. I agree, to a fault he kept silent for too long. When he got mad, things changed. 2 cents

i dont have much to add to this but i agree

[manhattangirl]

 aintfoolin',

As always you make it all clear.   I agree with you.  Ennis never questioned Jack's manhood, but his sensitivity as a lover can be questioned.  It could be that Jack finally rebel against the almost dismissive attitude that Ennis displayed.  The little thing as changing the date, for his convenience left Jack feeling after twenty years of loyalty and love he could be push aside by such a weak excuse, and it was a weak excuse as far as Jack was concerned, he turned away from Ennis. 

But Ennis,  like many lovers who haven't got a clue ask the fatal question "you got a better idea?"  oh poor Ennis, Jack had ideas and let him know about it.   The question of Jack's faithfulness by Ennis just showed the  weakness and vulnerability of both men.  But Ennis's obsession with Jack's fidelity was as strong as the fear of being discovered.  It kept part of him away from Jack.   But how could  Jack know?  All he knew was his lover, the one person he'd risk everything for is rejecting him, again.

The rejection after Ennis divorce harden Jack, but not enough to keep him from embracing Ennis.   Jack became fully formed at that moment of mercy for his lover when collapsed in his arms.  At that moment they were equals, and totally in love with each other.  Ennis held on to Jack, and Jack did the same.  Maybe when Jack remembered the dozy embrace, and Ennis uninhibited, and with free will embraced him,  did Jack understand that Ennis did love him, but Ennis had to find out in his own way whether or not he was loved in return.

I don't know.

[lamusica]

aintfoolin',

The rejection after Ennis divorce harden Jack, but not enough to keep him from embracing Ennis.   Jack became fully formed at that moment of mercy for his lover when collapsed in his arms.  At that moment they were equals, and totally in love with each other.  Ennis held on to Jack, and Jack did the same.  Maybe when Jack remembered the dozy embrace, and Ennis uninhibited, and with free will embraced him,  did Jack understand that Ennis did love him, but Ennis had to find out in his own way whether or not he was loved in return.

I don't know.

At that moment when they embraced, I get the feeling that it was out of desperation.  They both know they had gone too far -- said things that were too hurtful but that they couldn't take back.  I feel they had to embrace that way in order to convince one another that there was still something salvageable about their relationship.  Had they not embraced, that would have been the end for them; that would have been the same as telling one another that they were writing the other one off for good.
That doesn't mean they didn't love each other anymore, but that that embrace meant more than mutual affection; it was also their salvation.

[manhattangirl]

At that moment when they embraced, I get the feeling that it was out of desperation.  They both know they had gone too far -- said things that were too hurtful but that they couldn't take back.  I feel they had to embrace that way in order to convince one another that there was still something salvageable about their relationship.  Had they not embraced, that would have been the end for them; that would have been the same as telling one another that they were writing the other one off for good.
That doesn't mean they didn't love each other anymore, but that that embrace meant more than mutual affection; it was also their salvation.

I respectfully disagree, all that they said was true in their eyes, each made valid points of how they saw their relationship, and how they felt.  All the "unsayable" was said at that moment, it was all valid.  Jack didn't realize that Ennis was barley holding on and what he sacrificed, the pain of Jack's infidelity, and Ennis didn't understand that Jack's loneliness for him left him searching, resentment of the short leash he felt Ennis had him by, and the knowing that a life together was something Ennis didn't want.  All points valid all points true in each man's eyes. 

This wasn't a time to say later "oh, I didn't mean it"  they did mean it, this was how they felt, and we saw the signs we knew it was coming.  Through great pain, there has to be understanding.  (hopefully). 

my 2cents



 

[Matt Nasty]

I respectfully disagree



 

thats one thing i love on this forum there can be disagre ments but no one ever argues 

[lamusica]

I respectfully disagree, all that they said was true in their eyes, each made valid points of how they saw their relationship, and how they felt.  All the "unsayable" was said at that moment, it was all valid.  Jack didn't realize that Ennis was barley holding on and what he sacrificed, the pain of Jack's infidelity, and Ennis didn't understand that Jack's loneliness for him left him searching, resentment of the short leash he felt Ennis had him by, and the knowing that a life together was something Ennis didn't want.  All points valid all points true in each man's eyes. 

This wasn't a time to say later "oh, I didn't mean it"  they did mean it, this was how they felt, and we saw the signs we knew it was coming.  Through great pain, there has to be understanding.  (hopefully). 

my 2cents



 

I must be missing something.  I don't see where we are disagreeing.  Everything you said is true.  I agree wholeheartedly.  I am just saying that, in spite of what they said and really did feel, they also knew they had to make physical contact at that time or risk unravelling the ties that held them together.  The physical contact, the hug, didn't negate the truth of their feelings, in my opinion, but cemented their relationship no matter how much they had hurt one another, or how much they hurt inside.  All the talk, shouting, scolding was necessary, but now the antidote, the embrace, had to happen, too.  Oh, they meant everything they said, but they also meant the action of grasping one another desperately, hanging on for dear life.

[manhattangirl]

I must be missing something.  I don't see where we are disagreeing.  Everything you said is true.  I agree wholeheartedly.  I am just saying that, in spite of what they said and really did feel, they also knew they had to make physical contact at that time or risk unravelling the ties that held them together.  The physical contact, the hug, didn't negate the truth of their feelings, in my opinion, but cemented their relationship no matter how much they had hurt one another, or how much they hurt inside.  All the talk, shouting, scolding was necessary, but now the antidote, the embrace, had to happen, too.  Oh, they meant everything they said, but they also meant the action of grasping one another desperately, hanging on for dear life.

Then it's my misunderstanding.  I interpreted what you were saying that when they hugged it negated all of what they were feeling, as you pointed out it didn't.  The hug was the absolute truth, they loved each other.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[aintfoolin]

To me , the embrace represented Jack's unwillingness to let Ennis give up on trying to understand what was happening between them. Ennis rejected Jack at first,  pushing Jack away,, signaling his frustration and anger at Jack's words and actions, along with the sheer exposure, but Jack grabbed him  with determination, as he collapsed signaling a knowledge that he knew Ennis was giving up on himself and the relationship while at the same time, knowing that the depth of need in Ennis was a matter of his survival, literally.  Ennis was still fighting, but barely. Jack's quiet "damn you Ennis" " it's alright "speaks to this imo. Excellent acting on both parts. My take.

[manhattangirl]

To me , the embrace represented Jack's unwillingness to let Ennis give up on trying to understand what was happening between them. Ennis rejected Jack at first,  pushing Jack away,, signaling his frustration and anger at Jack's words and actions, along with the sheer exposure, but Jack grabbed him  with determination, as he collapsed signaling a knowledge that he knew Ennis was giving up on himself and the relationship while at the same time, knowing that the depth of need in Ennis was a matter of his survival, literally.  Ennis was still fighting, but barely. Jack's quiet "damn you Ennis" " it's alright "speaks to this imo. Excellent acting on both parts. My take.

It's funny how Jack was never afraid of that part of Ennis.  The violent part, where Ennis could have laid him out, but Jack never stepped back from it, but kept coming forward.   I guess he knew what that part of Ennis was, when his emotions could be so totally overwhelming he couldn't do anything but strike out.   We see this in so many occasions.  I could see them holding each other for a long while.   

[aintfoolin]

Me too MG, I see them staying in this embrace for some time. I also agree that Jack never feared Ennis. cuz he knew with Ennis there was always the underlying fact that Ennis loved and needed him, regardless of what Ennis did or said and would never purposely harm him , In this way, he knew Ennis well. Jack knows and sees the pattern, ever since Brokeback.  After 20 years, Jack ....almost...had Ennis figured pretty good though  I feel Ennis sent *mixed signals* at times or changed the rules on em. 2 cents.

[Matt Nasty]

Me too MG, I see them staying in this embrace for some time. I also agree that Jack never feared Ennis. cuz he knew with Ennis there was always the underlying fact that Ennis loved and needed him, regardless of what Ennis did or said and would never purposely harm him , In this way, he knew Ennis well. Jack knows and sees the pattern, ever since Brokeback.  After 20 years, Jack ....almost...had Ennis figured pretty good though  I feel Ennis sent *mixed signals* at times or changed the rules on em. 2 cents.

jack most certainly never feared ennis im also sure jack never doubted ennis's love for him

[tpe]

jack most certainly never feared ennis im also sure jack never doubted ennis's love for him

I agree.  His anger and his possible decision to "move on" in no way changed his love for Ennis.  And he feared more the possibility of hurting Ennis, rather than fearing Ennis.  His anger is a reflection of his frustration.

[myprivatejack]

I agree.  His anger and his possible decision to "move on" in no way changed his love for Ennis.  And he feared more the possibility of hurting Ennis, rather than fearing Ennis.  His anger is a reflection of his frustration.

I agree,too.He feared more hurting Ennis than feared him if ,as it seems,he had arrived to a point of no-return in their relationship.But I wonder if he hadn't been fearing also the possibility of keep on being hurt and deceived in his deepest wishes for more time...

[aintfoolin]

I agree,too.He feared more hurting Ennis than feared him if ,as it seems,he had arrived to a point of no-return in their relationship.But I wonder if he hadn't been fearing also the possibility of keep on being hurt and deceived in his deepest wishes for more time...

 I think he feared letting go. Knowing Ennis the way he did, he knew it would hurt Ennis further if he did and that was the last thing he wanted to do. He had invested so much emotional energy into this, that in the end though he was trying to figure a way to quit Ennis, it still only remained a frightening thought. Too frightening to fully  grasp the finality of it.
 I also feel he was angry and frustrated but also in kind of a denial of his own. To accept it meant a lonley life without Ennis in it.  The death of his dream.  So he holds on to what little he has as long as he can.. What he really wanted was for Ennis to see it his way. The sooner, the better. My take

[tpe]

I agree,too.He feared more hurting Ennis than feared him if ,as it seems,he had arrived to a point of no-return in their relationship.But I wonder if he hadn't been fearing also the possibility of keep on being hurt and deceived in his deepest wishes for more time...

Yes, I think Jack feared most of all a life without fulfillment -- and in this case, it is the fulfillment of his love for Ennis.  I think he did indeed fear the continuing hurt and frustration that came with being unfulfilled, and this sullied his ability to love fully and deeply.

[aintfoolin]

 What still baffles me is that Jack did'nt just take the money LD was offering and try and build a life for himself outside of Childress. Why continue to wallow in the frustration? Sure he wanted Ennis to be there, but surely he saw that was not happening anytime soon. Why stay in a marriage he was not happy in? Not bashing him, but but what I see is Jack wrapping all his hopes and dreams up in a life with Ennis, wishing, hopeing and praying that one day , Ennis will commit. Kept all his eggs in one loving basket held by Ennis.  I suppose low self-esteem and depression had alot to do with it, but maybe had Ennis seen that Jack was'nt gonna sit around pining for him and waiting for him to come to his senses, this would've moved Ennis in some way. Let's face it , Ennis was'nt about to let Jack go again, not completely. Jack held some aces up his own sleeve. To bad he did'nt play them.   meeting out in the middle of nowhere was one thing with sad negative connatations attached, meeting at Jack's spread was a better idea imo, at least it would have been a start, a new approach to permanently snagging Ennis..   maybe..just a thought.

[Matt Nasty]

What still baffles me is that Jack did'nt just take the money LD was offering and try and build a life for himself outside of Childress. Why continue to wallow in the frustration? Sure he wanted Ennis to be there, but surely he saw that was not happening anytime soon. Why stay in a marriage he was not happy in? Not bashing him, but but what I see is Jack wrapping all his hopes and dreams up in a life with Ennis, wishing, hopeing and praying that one day , Ennis will commit. Kept all his eggs in one loving basket held by Ennis.  I suppose low self-esteem and depression had alot to do with it, but maybe had Ennis seen that Jack was'nt gonna sit around pining for him and waiting for him to come to his senses, this would've moved Ennis in some way. Let's face it , Ennis was'nt about to let Jack go again, not completely. Jack held some aces up his own sleeve. To bad he did'nt play them.   meeting out in the middle of nowhere was one thing with sad negative connatations attached, meeting at Jack's spread was a better idea imo, at least it would have been a start, a new approach to permanently snagging Ennis..   maybe..just a thought.

i think the reason jack didnt get out of his marrge with lureen regardless of ennis being their was because well... he had his son and i dont think he would leave bobby unsupported unless it was for something as big as too be with ennis. IMO anyway

[tpe]

What still baffles me is that Jack did'nt just take the money LD was offering and try and build a life for himself outside of Childress. Why continue to wallow in the frustration? Sure he wanted Ennis to be there, but surely he saw that was not happening anytime soon. Why stay in a marriage he was not happy in? Not bashing him, but but what I see is Jack wrapping all his hopes and dreams up in a life with Ennis, wishing, hopeing and praying that one day , Ennis will commit. Kept all his eggs in one loving basket held by Ennis.  I suppose low self-esteem and depression had alot to do with it, but maybe had Ennis seen that Jack was'nt gonna sit around pining for him and waiting for him to come to his senses, this would've moved Ennis in some way. Let's face it , Ennis was'nt about to let Jack go again, not completely. Jack held some aces up his own sleeve. To bad he did'nt play them.   meeting out in the middle of nowhere was one thing with sad negative connatations attached, meeting at Jack's spread was a better idea imo, at least it would have been a start, a new approach to permanently snagging Ennis..   maybe..just a thought.

I suspect it's because he felt that Ennis wouldn't approve of it.  And I do think Lureen became a convenient smokescreen, no?  It certainly worked better for him than between Alma and Ennis.  She really didn't seem to care later on, and that suited Jack and made it very convenient for him.  What do you think?

[myprivatejack]

I suspect it's because he felt that Ennis wouldn't approve of it.  And I do think Lureen became a convenient smokescreen, no?  It certainly worked better for him than between Alma and Ennis.  She really didn't seem to care later on, and that suited Jack and made it very convenient for him.  What do you think?

I guess that's was the first reason; keep on being married was the proper smokescreen,mainly when Ennis got divorced and people's glances could address easier to them.His marriage,even if a "disguise",worked better than Alma and Ennis one,indeed,because it ended by being a moneymaking machine,what was not very bad for Jack at the end...If the way until getting this " sweet life together"as his main aim, meant paying the price of accumulating some frustrations more meanwhile in his home life,surely Jack put all this in a balance to discover it wasn't so bad for him to overcome.

[aintfoolin]

I suspect it's because he felt that Ennis wouldn't approve of it.  And I do think Lureen became a convenient smokescreen, no?  It certainly worked better for him than between Alma and Ennis.  She really didn't seem to care later on, and that suited Jack and made it very convenient for him.  What do you think?

But Lureen was not privy to what Alma was. We are not sure if she even suspected. It's his life, Ennis approving of it shoud'nt matter after some point.  Jack would get mad and live a life of constant frustration , but continue on the same path. He wanted a little cow-calf operation and wanted Ennis to share , but that was'nt happening. I just feel he had options other than the approach he took.  But why stay in the marriage? when he had the chance to break free? To trade convenience for happiness does'nt make sense to me.

[chameau]

I suspect it's because he felt that Ennis wouldn't approve of it.  And I do think Lureen became a convenient smokescreen, no?  It certainly worked better for him than between Alma and Ennis.  She really didn't seem to care later on, and that suited Jack and made it very convenient for him.  What do you think?

I agree with the smowkescreen but what's about Billy?  There a short scene in the movie about Jack asking Lureen to call the school about their son, it's more clear in the book that Jack is concerned about his son... at that time divorce mean in most cases kids stay with mothers.  He might have say also he didn't want kids (in the SS) but I'm quite sure he loved Bobby and cared for him (still from the SS, his concerns about Bobby's dislexia).  He probably wnated to stay around Bobby because of LD's influence too.