Topic: Did Jacks mom know?

[*Froggy*]

If you decide to go see this movie you will get the chance to learn about love, loss, hate, fear, prejudice, loyalty and betrayal.The one single most important lesson is that we all have to make choices in this life. This has to be done with the most honest and truthful heart possible because no one is an island and your choices do and will affect other people.

If you loved it, or if you liked it, or if you thought it was just OK buy the DVD and every five or so years watch it again because the older the eyes the finer the film.

Well worth the money even without the Senior Discount.

Thankx for posting, great review!

[glacier1]

I just found this story about Roberta Maxwell, the actress portraying Jack's mother.   The page also contains a link to an audio interview with her.   It's a must for obsessive fans.   Among other things is her reading of a complementary letter from Annie Proulx and comments about Heath Ledger's courteous and unexpected return to facilitate shooting of reaction shots (when he wasn't really required to be there) with her and the actor who portrayed Jack's father.

The interview is appropriately called "Depth of Feeling".

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/archives/2006/01/depth_of_feelin.php

[chameau]

I just found this story about Roberta Maxwell, the actress portraying Jack's mother.   The page also contains a link to an audio interview with her.   It's a must for obsessive fans.   Among other things is her reading of a complementary letter from Annie Proulx and comments about Heath Ledger's courteous and unexpected return to facilitate shooting of reaction shots (when he wasn't really required to be there) with her and the actor who portrayed Jack's father.

The interview is appropriately called "Depth of Feeling".

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/archives/2006/01/depth_of_feelin.php

glacier1, you got me again.  You must know Jack's mother has a special place in my heart. 

Yes, I cry, again!

Thanks for sharing, very much appreciated.

[leanne]

She probably didn't and i'm probably reading way too much into it, but there is a bit of me that thinks his mom knew that ennis loved Jack. I don't really have an valid points other than...to me, Ennis wanting to take Jacks shirt seems weird IF they were only friends. I think of what it would be like if my brothers friend died, and he went to his house and asked his mom if he could take a simple denim shirt home to remember him. Or even if my friend died ( heaven forbid), and i asked her mom if I could take a top of hers. It is very much a thing someone would do if they were in love with that person. An item of clothing is a very personal thing, and is somthing that can hold so many memories, which is very true in both Ennis and Jacks case. Even if they were best BEST friends, it still seems..odd? It could just be me though
It was also the way his mom was looking at Ennis, and asked him to visit again.

Ok yes..I really am reading too much into this. I apologise lol. Is a nice thought though, that his mom knew of it, and was happy to see Ennis, and to invite him back.


Lea x

[aimi15]

leanne - I agree, she SO knew. I think she could empathise and understand the relationship between Ennis and Jack having lived a life so without happiness. Such a brilliant performance by the two actors playing Jack's mum and dad. Just a few minutes of screen time and you UNDERSTAND everything about Jacks life.

Jack's mum's performance i found particularly touching, just the way she looks at Ennis and touches his shoulder, all the unspoken words that pass between them - really poignant. She knew this was the love of her son's life and tried to offer him a little comfort - 'come and see us again', letting him up to see Jack's room so readily, i don't think these are things someone would do for a perfect stranger. Really REALLY heartbreaking...sob! :'( :'(

[leanne]

ooooh, thank you for replying! I thought I was the only one that thought it!

[tpe]

I feel that she did.

There was a wonderful post (sorry I cannot remember the author or thread right now) that dealt with this.  What I remember most from this post is that it call to our attention the following: when Ennis returns with the shirts, she seems matter-of-fact about it -- as if she was expecting him to find the things SHE was leading him to find...  Another point: how could she not have known that the shirts were there after 20 years?

[leanne]

God yeah, thats true. Hadn't thought about her knowing about the shirts.  :'(

[Patriot1]

She probably didn't and i'm probably reading way too much into it, but there is a bit of me that thinks his mom knew that ennis loved Jack.

I don't know if she knew Ennis loved Jack but she sure did know Jack loved Ennis.

Jack put those shirts in his closet when he was just 19 years old.  Jack's mother must have been the one to dust his room while he was away.  I am sure Jack told her to never touch those shirts or I am sure she would have washed them for him.

Jack seemed to be able to talk openly (at least to a degree) with both his parents.  He told them both he and Ennis would move up there and build a cabin together.  They MUST have known what that meant.  Otherwise, even if Ennis came up there and the two were just friends why wouldn't Jack have just stayed in his own room.  And because Jack was open with his parents, I just have a feeling he was more open with his mother.  I am sure she knew everything.  The way she treated Ennis reinforced that belief in me.  I was waiting for her to call him son, as in son-in-law.  And the way she put her hand on his shoulder was so telling.  There was no real need for her to touch him at that point.  There was a "connection" between them.  And when she asked Ennis to came back and visit I heard her saying, because I love the person that made my son so happy.

Yup, she knew everything, I am convinced.

[chrissy323]

I feel that she did.

There was a wonderful post (sorry I cannot remember the author or thread right now) that dealt with this.  What I remember most from this post is that it call to our attention the following: when Ennis returns with the shirts, she seems matter-of-fact about it -- as if she was expecting him to find the things SHE was leading him to find...  Another point: how could she not have known that the shirts were there after 20 years?

I always thought she knew or if she really didn't know for sure, she surely suspected and when Ennis showed up, she got her confirmation. I always thought she was leading him to find the shirts, especially since she let him - a perfect stranger to her - go up there alone. She knew what he would find and wanted to give him the time and space to discover and deal with it on his own.

[JerBear418720]

Who knows you better than your mother?  You were created inside of her body.  Mothers always know, on some level at least.....

[Patriot1]

I feel that she did.

There was a wonderful post (sorry I cannot remember the author or thread right now) that dealt with this.

tpe was this the post you were thinking of?

http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=2216.0#msg36851

[tpe]

I feel that she did.

There was a wonderful post (sorry I cannot remember the author or thread right now) that dealt with this.

tpe was this the post you were thinking of?

http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=2216.0#msg36851

Yes Patriot1.  This is indeed the one.  I congratulate you on that wonderful post.  I love it.

[Patriot1]

Yes Patriot1.  This is indeed the one.  I congratulate you on that wonderful post.  I love it.

Thanks dear.  I was just taking the words from my heart.

[siredevienne38]

I found this priceless Yahoo review on another BBM board and felt most here would enjoy it.   (relevant to this thread because of the 5th paragraph) It's one of the most beautiful reflections on the film I've yet read.

The Older The Eyes............The Finer The Film
by txgrandpa65 Jan 10, 2006


My wife and I and our best friends all live in a small town in East Texas. Even though none of us will ever see 65 again we do love to see good movies and we depend on your reviews to help us make our choices. Most of the reviews talked about the visuals and the acting. The one common theme was that you can not leave this movie at the theater it follows you home and that intrigued us.

Last week we drove the two hours to Dallas to see the film. Our first moment of enjoyment was the look on the face of the ticket lady when we asked if the Senior Discount applied to Brokeback. As the movie begins you hear the mournful sound of the train whistle and you sense you are about to go on an amazing journey. And amazing it is. The visuals and the music take you quickly to a place of great beauty, peace, and solitude. The acting is first rate and you swear you actually know Alma, Ennis, Lureen, and Jack just seconds after they appear on the screen. Suffice to say we all four thought the movie was extremely well done and thought provoking.

We would like to give some observations fron the Senior viewpoint. First of all the sexual content of the movie. We were aware of the storyline and somewhat prepared and determined to sit through what ever it was. We all agreed however that we felt more uncomfortable with the sexual acrobatics of Halle Berry in "Monster's Ball" and the straiway scene in "The History of Violence" than the brief tent scenes. And the difference between the first night and the second tells you this is going to be more than drunk sex.

The obvious storyline is about Ennis and Jack but if you can step back and observe and absorb the whole story you will find so many wonderful stories within this story. One real gem is Lureen who proves Texas women don't get older just blonder. Her phone scene with Ennis is just amazing. She is forced to acknowledge that the voice on the other end of the line belongs to the person that owned the piece of her husbands heart that would never be hers. In a split second she has to decide to treat him with contempt or kindness. Anne Hathaway within these few minutes on the screen shows how really talented she is.

In our opinion one of the best parts in the entire movie occur when Ennis goes to the ranch of Jacks parents. Mrs. Twist feels an immediate connection with him and tries to mother him with Cherry cake and coffee. She has heard the name Ennis Del Mar often from Jack and in her heart of hearts she knows WHO he is. In order to confirm her thoughts she invites him to go up to Jacks childhood room knowing what Jack had put in the closet twenty years ago. As Ennis comes back down the stairs she sees the contents in his hand and knows there could be only one other person in the world except Jack that would know the importance of it. The look in her eyes and her small gestures as she hands him the sack is simply heartbreaking. You can almost hear that mother's heart shattered by the loss of a child scream out "I loved my boy Jack and I don't know and I don't care why you were so important to him but I know you were and I love you for it." But all she can actually say is that he is welcome back anytime. You can feel her total isolation as she watches him leave knowing she has just lost another piece of her son's life. Roberta Maxwell as Jacks mother is pure perfection.

If you decide to go see this movie you will get the chance to learn about love, loss, hate, fear, prejudice, loyalty and betrayal.The one single most important lesson is that we all have to make choices in this life. This has to be done with the most honest and truthful heart possible because no one is an island and your choices do and will affect other people.

If you loved it, or if you liked it, or if you thought it was just OK buy the DVD and every five or so years watch it again because the older the eyes the finer the film.

Well worth the money even without the Senior Discount.

[monicita]

Great review!

Thanks for posting it.

monicita

[siredevienne38]

Let me put down here a few things.... not only those reated to Jack's parents.
I saw the movie yesterday evening for the first time here in austria, and it is a very moving one due to the story as well as the superb job done by Ang Lee. The play of the main characters should get the highest credit, since it is quite the opposite of what american actors normally deliver. It is a very decent and subtile way of play whereas the average cast normally tend to exaggerate via grimasses.

As to the SOB father, I can very well imagine that he also knew like mom about Jack's love of his life. As a bastard, he might have invented the story that jack wanted to settle down there with another guy in order to hurt Ennis, since he strongly dislikes gay men in general....This is my version, and it can be right as well, I guess.
For sure, Jack was not an angel and had sex with other men (hustlers in Tijuana, neighbours), but as to his character painted on screen and in the novel, I can very well imagine that these episodes where only to get sexual relief because of his higher sex drive (compared with Ennis'), but never intended to put their relationship at risk.

Would like to hear your ideas on that, guyz
Cheers
Kurt

 

 

[monicita]

Hi Kurt,

it gives me special pleasure to welcome you to our forum because we haven't had many German speakers here yet (hopefully, that is going to change, now the movie is out in all German speaking countries). I'm from Berlin, myself... Did you already check in with the "introducing yourself" thread? And maybe you could put yourself on the frapper map (see above). And feel free to put in more reviews in German under "German reviews"! Otherwise, just browse and enjoy!

[sam]

After having seen the film over 10 times now, (oh boy! tomorrow I will go and watch it on a HUGE IMAX screen!), I can say that I have never doubted in the least that Jake's mother knew...

From the very first viewing of this wonderful movie, it was plain-as-day for me to see that she knew...  This is what made that last scene of Ennis' visit to Jack's parents so poignant and utterly heart-wrenching.

Her eyes reveal that she knew...her miniscule gestures and the trace of tears in her clear, open eyes show us that she knows what Ennis meant to her son Jack...and regardless of what her husband says...she was accepting of it, and ok with it...because she loved her son Jack so much...

But, sadly she is caught up in a relationship where the man rules the house...the man speaks...while the wife stays dutifully silent...

Though using what little she has, she makes her (personal) standpoint clear to Ennis...

The coffee and cherry cake offering, saying that she had purposely kept Jack's room exactly as it was when he was little, saying to Ennis that he is welcome to go up to the room, the gentle hand on his shoulder, the knowing look in her eyes while she hurries to get Ennis a paper sack for the two shirts when he comes down from Jack's room (he doesn't have to say a word...she knows exactly what they mean to him!), turning her back towards her husband in a steadfast and almost belligerent stance while looking directly up to Ennis' face and asking him in a steady and controlled manner, to come visit them again...

And most of all, in the doorway, as Ennis takes his leave...out of direct eyesight of her dominant husband..."in private with Ennis"...she accepts Ennis' whispered   "much obliged ma'am"  ...with a sad look which makes clear to the audience, and to Ennis also, that she knew...

A tender moment which lasts but a second, but which is laden with so much emotion, that it would make even the most stoic amongst us choke back a quiet sob...

sam

[Patriot1]

As to the SOB father, I can very well imagine that he also knew like mom about Jack's love of his life. As a bastard, he might have invented the story that jack wanted to settle down there with another guy in order to hurt Ennis, since he strongly dislikes gay men in general....This is my version, and it can be right as well, I guess.

Would like to hear your ideas on that, guyz

Kurt

Hi Kurt,

I think I am the only one that feels differently about the father.  Oh sure, he was an SOB, even Jack said there was no pleasing his old man.  But, while Ennis was there and the father was complaining, I felt the father was more pissed off because Jack never did bring Ennis or Randall to the ranch to help out.

This is what the screenplay says:

John Twist: (angrily)
Jack used a say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used a say, 'I'm  goin' a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' He had some half-baked notion the two a you was goin' a move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
(pause)
Then this spring he's got another fella's goin' a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He's goin' a split up with his wife and come back here.
(sarcastic)
So he says. But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass.[/i]

In the screenplay, the last five words are the most important, I believe. "...it never come to pass."...said in a sarcastic tone.  The old man was pissed because jack never kept his promises to bring Ennis (or Randall) back home to help his dad out.

Now, Annie makes this even clearer in her story. I won't quote the whole paragraph because it is basically the same as the screenplay.  But, the first two sentences are not in the screenplay.  These two sentences make it very clear why the old man is pissed.

The old man spoke angrily. "I can't get no help out here. Jack use to say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he use to say.....

[emphasis was added to point out key passage]

So, that is why I believe the father was more pissed that Jack and Ennis didn't come and help with the ranch than he was pissed that Jack was in love with Ennis.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think the father was likely to throw a 25th anniversary party for Jack and Ennis, but that wasn't why he was angry.

Just my perspective brothers, sisters and friends.  I am sure you have your own.

[Rønnaug]

I agree with you patrior1, but I think Jacks dad knew Ennis was special. He obviously knew who Ennis was and not the "other fella" He might not have known to the extent mum knew but he knew Ennis ment something to Jack. Either he hadn't bother to remember the "other fellas" name or Ennis had been mentioned so much he remembered.

[Patriot1]

I agree with you patrior1, but I think Jacks dad knew Ennis was special. He obviously knew who Ennis was and not the "other fella" He might not have known to the extent mum knew but he knew Ennis ment something to Jack. Either he hadn't bother to remember the "other fellas" name or Ennis had been mentioned so much he remembered.

I had to go back and reread my post to see why you might have thought I didn't think the father knew Jack was "special."  I can see I didn't actually come out and say it I just implied it.  Sorry.  Yes, Jack's father knew he was gay but he was more angry that Jack never brought the help he said he would.

[pierralex]

I had to go back and reread my post to see why you might have thought I didn't think the father knew Jack was "special."  I can see I didn't actually come out and say it I just implied it.  Sorry.  Yes, Jack's father knew he was gay but he was more angry that Jack never brought the help he said he would.

I agree with you. That's what I thought the first time I saw BBM (in french). His father was more upset by the fact that Jack always told them about Ennis, and that they would come and help the father. But nothing he said never happend... I think Jack must have already made promises that he didn't keep before.

[Rønnaug]

Knowing what kinda father grumpy old twist was, from novel mostly, I don't think Jack woulda brought anyone up there untill he was sure thay would stay... he needed someone to back him up agains daddy dearest ( thinking of joan crawford here ). Not just because of what daddy was but also someone tht would back him uo about beeing gay, cause if daddy didn't know for sure beofer he woulda got the gist at some point.

And I'm sure I just blinked and missed what you ment patriot1

[ragtimecowboy]

Let me put down here a few things.... not only those reated to Jack's parents.
I saw the movie yesterday evening for the first time here in austria, and it is a very moving one due to the story as well as the superb job done by Ang Lee. The play of the main characters should get the highest credit, since it is quite the opposite of what american actors normally deliver. It is a very decent and subtile way of play whereas the average cast normally tend to exaggerate via grimasses.

As to the SOB father, I can very well imagine that he also knew like mom about Jack's love of his life. As a bastard, he might have invented the story that jack wanted to settle down there with another guy in order to hurt Ennis, since he strongly dislikes gay men in general....This is my version, and it can be right as well, I guess.
For sure, Jack was not an angel and had sex with other men (hustlers in Tijuana, neighbours), but as to his character painted on screen and in the novel, I can very well imagine that these episodes where only to get sexual relief because of his higher sex drive (compared with Ennis'), but never intended to put their relationship at risk.

Would like to hear your ideas on that, guyz
Cheers
Kurt

 

 

I really think he had heard Jack talk about Ennis so much, and there dream move back to the farm to fix it up, he never thought he would ever meet him. I am sure that stud duck knew that Ennis was the love of Jack's life, and held him in the highest contempt. I'm not so sure it was made up to hurt him. I think it was said to let Ennis know where he stood with him.

The subltle interplay in this movie between all the characters is what makes Brokeback Mouintain so good. Add the excellant direction by Ang Lee and breathtaking cinematography, and you do indeed have one of the greatest movies of all time.

[BBBOY]

I just got into this thread today. Roberta Maxwell is truly and amazing actress. Her performance just knocked my sox off, so understated and yet so deep and important to moving the movie forward. Did Jack's mom know? Of course she did. She "kept the room like it was when he was a boy." Surely she knew of the existence of the shirts. As was said above, "A mother always knows." Despite her own beaten down world she was happy that Jack had had what he did with Ennis. She led him to the shirts.

[Toadily]

Roberta rocks, Annie Proulx wrote her a note that said it best, to the effect that in a few looks and gestures she
let us know that Jack's Mom knew how much Ennis cared for Jack.

[proulxfan]

Thanks, Toadily
One of the best plums I got from my most recent viewing of the film was watching Jack's mother very carefully, and yes, with the same kind of subtlety that suffuses the rest of the movie, she makes it very clear that she understands the significance of the shirts to Ennis, and thus her understanding of Jack and Ennis's love for each other. Her-Roberta Maxwell's-performance is as sweet as any other in the film.

[pierralex]

Roberta rocks, Annie Proulx wrote her a note that said it best, to the effect that in a few looks and gestures she
let us know that Jack's Mom knew how much Ennis cared for Jack.

Yes Roberta Maxwell is perfect.... It's amazing how the casting of BBM is so good...

[tpe]

BBM HAS THE BEST ENSEMBLE CAST.  PERIOD.