Topic: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers

[keren_b]

Hi guys,

I think it's fundamental to the story that you don't believe Jack every truly gave up on Ennis.

I think this is one of the reasons why the deleted scene with Jack, Randall and the mechanics didn't make it to the film - both to create ambiguity over Jack's death, and also to keep Jack's infidelity towards Ennis more unclear.

In either event, Jack had been at his parents in the spring, but left the shirts where they'd hung silently for 20 years. This means, that Jack maintained the symbol of their togetherness forever. To me, this means that despite Mexico, Randall or whatever else, that Jack's heart remained faithful to Ennis only.

The other bit that I like about the scene, is Jack's father. Much is said about his mother, but mainly the feeling towards the father is hostile. He's definitely an interesting character. There is homophobia here, unquestionably. But there is also a level of understanding that most people miss. The fact that he knows about Ennis and the other ranch neighbour is important. Why would you tell your homophobic father that you were leaving your wife and bringing another guy to come to 'lick the ranch back into shape'. If the father was that homophobic then he'd said 'no way'. When he recounts how Jack would say that he'd bring 'Ennis Del Mar' to his parents home, you get a sense when the father says Ennis name as if he's mimicing / mocking the dream like way Jack would talk about his lover.

Also, the father's reluctance to not let his son's ashes go to brokeback mountain also has a double meaning. On the one hand, he explains that Jack is going in the family plot suggests his disappointment, and even disgust that his son left his life with the heads in the clouds, and wanted something that went againt the wishes of the other people in his life. Also - and for me - this is the crucial bit....burying him in the family plot is important - it is Jack's father showing, that inspite of what his son was, what he'd done, and what he thought of him, he was still family. There's a sense of ownership and pride when you declare someone family.

You bring up some very good points about Jack's father, that I haven't given much thought before.

As for the question of the thread, it depends on what people mean when they say Jack had "given up on Ennis". I think that Jack had pretty much given up on the idea that Ennis would ever get over his fears and agree to build a life with him (which was already implied in his answer "I did once"). And he might have told himself that it would be best for him to move on, to try and build this life with someone else, because he knew he would not be able to do it with Ennis, but I don't believe that he's really "moved on". I don't think that Jack was able to get over his love for Ennis or to put Ennis behind him, ever. It does sound like he was making plans with Randall, otherwise he wouldn't tell his folks about it, but even if he'd gone through with that plan, I think Ennis would have remained the love of his life.

[thunderwolf]

Hey Keren_b - although I really think you are probably right in your assessment, I just can't accept it!

For Ennis his love of Jack was rooted in Brokeback Mountain - that one place where they'd be so happy and together and he thought that all they could do is recreate glimpses of that special time together. Ennis never thought that they could top what they had in BBM.

For Jack, I just think his love of Ennis was just love of Ennis. Jack believed that their time on BBM, and their elicit weeks together post BBM was just a taster of what life could be like if they were always together.

To this extent, I don't think he'd ever truly give up on Ennis, or his belief that at some point they could have a life together. Or, even if he had 'given up' he hadn't quit 'giving up' if that makes sense? It probably doesn't.

Even long post the divorce, Jack tentatively brings up the topic that Ennis should move to Texas. I'd hate to think that he had given up on a life together, or it's not a love that endures for 20 years

[welshwitch]

"Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds." I don't think Jack ever gave up on Ennis; love doesn't work like that, if it's the real thing. He may have tried to convince himself that he had accepted the fact that they would never have that sweet life, but I don't think he succeeded. The least hint of an iota of a smidgeon of change in Ennis and he'd have been filled with hope all over again. His was the kind of love that " bears it out even to the edge of doom".

[lancecowboy]

Wow! That's what I love about this place. Years later and new members still bring new insights to an old movie that we all love.

Welcome to the fold, thunderwolf.

The relationship between Jack and his Pa may not be black and white, but I think it's typical of the homophobia of rural American patriarchs. Jack was a disappointment, pure and simple. The only good thing in Jack, as far as his Pa was concerned, was his marrying Lureen and had a son. If it weren't for that, he probably wouldn't be welcome back to the family farm, much less the family plot. And you can bet the old man insisted on burying Jack there, not out of love nor pride, but spite for his son's love of another man. "No way my son is going to get buried up there in Brokeback where he did all them abominationable things with that other queer!" Having Jack buried in the family plot was also his way of having a connection with Bobby, his grandson, though I doubt that Lurren would drive all that way to visit his grave.

Jack gave up on Ennis at the Final Confrontation. He still loved Ennis. But he knew Ennis would never leave his kids, never move to Texas or anywhere. As long as Ennis was staying at Riverton with his daughters, he would never live with Jack or do anything other than going out into the middle of nowhere a few times a year. Jack was stuck with Lureen, too, in Texas, and no way he could divorce her and move up to Wyoming. Not in them days. That's the reason for all the drinking and trips to Mexico. Yes, come November and a postcard from Ennis, Randoll or not, he'd still redline fourteen hours each way to spend a few days with Ennis. He ain't quitting his Brokeback, no way, no how.

As far as Randoll was concerned, he and Jack couldn't be anything other than just having a bit of fun. He was too much like Jack. Married into money. No way he would jeopardize his livelihood, his veterinarian practice just to play house with a ranch hand in a broken down farm in Wyoming. All the talk Jack's Pa was repeating just what Jack fantasized on his own, like having Ennis up there. None of it was gonna happen. Jack was nothing more than a booty call to him. Poor Jack, though, always wanting love, blue birds singing next to his whiskey spring.

That's the tragedy if it all. Ennis and Jack, both yearning for love. Both found it in each other. Yet, both were denied because they were born a few decades too early, in the wrong states, in the wrong time.

Here's to all the Ennis and Jack out there. 🍻 

[bluemountainsky]

Wow! That's what I love about this place. Years later and new members still bring new insights to an old movie that we all love.

Welcome to the fold, thunderwolf.

The relationship between Jack and his Pa may not be black and white, but I think it's typical of the homophobia of rural American patriarchs. Jack was a disappointment, pure and simple. The only good thing in Jack, as far as his Pa was concerned, was his marrying Lureen and had a son. If it weren't for that, he probably wouldn't be welcome back to the family farm, much less the family plot. And you can bet the old man insisted on burying Jack there, not out of love nor pride, but spite for his son's love of another man. "No way my son is going to get buried up there in Brokeback where he did all them abominationable things with that other queer!" Having Jack buried in the family plot was also his way of having a connection with Bobby, his grandson, though I doubt that Lurren would drive all that way to visit his grave.

Jack gave up on Ennis at the Final Confrontation. He still loved Ennis. But he knew Ennis would never leave his kids, never move to Texas or anywhere. As long as Ennis was staying at Riverton with his daughters, he would never live with Jack or do anything other than going out into the middle of nowhere a few times a year. Jack was stuck with Lureen, too, in Texas, and no way he could divorce her and move up to Wyoming. Not in them days. That's the reason for all the drinking and trips to Mexico. Yes, come November and a postcard from Ennis, Randoll or not, he'd still redline fourteen hours each way to spend a few days with Ennis. He ain't quitting his Brokeback, no way, no how.

As far as Randoll was concerned, he and Jack couldn't be anything other than just having a bit of fun. He was too much like Jack. Married into money. No way he would jeopardize his livelihood, his veterinarian practice just to play house with a ranch hand in a broken down farm in Wyoming. All the talk Jack's Pa was repeating just what Jack fantasized on his own, like having Ennis up there. None of it was gonna happen. Jack was nothing more than a booty call to him. Poor Jack, though, always wanting love, blue birds singing next to his whiskey spring.

That's the tragedy if it all. Ennis and Jack, both yearning for love. Both found it in each other. Yet, both were denied because they were born a few decades too early, in the wrong states, in the wrong time.

Here's to all the Ennis and Jack out there. 🍻 

You nailed it right there. That's what kind of relationship Jack and his father had. Jack was a failure to his father, and the father was ashamed of his gay son. While Jack's father may have taken his homophobia to the level that Ennis' father would have (I firmly believe Ennis' father would have killed  Ennis if he'd been alive and knew about the relationship), Twist Sr. took it to the extent that he resented his son, and would have cut all ties with him had it not been for the fact that Jack married a woman and had a child. Another reason was Jack's mother's love for her son, it would be difficult to keep her from seeing her son. Otherwise, Jack and his father would have never seen or spoken to each other again. As for whether or not Jack had given up on Ennis after all those years of frustration, I don't think so.

I think he loved Ennis so much that he would still try no matter how much it hurt him over and over again. I don't think he died doubting Ennis' love for him, I think he died doubting that his dream would ever come true (Jack being the idealist had held onto it all those years) so it was the first time that he realized it might not happen. Jack might have said more or did more to make Ennis realize, but he was always to fearful of Ennis walking away. This goes all the way back to that first summer on Brokeback Mountain when Ennis says "I ain't queer", and Jack replies "me neither". Jack knew he was gay and was comfortable in his own skin, but said what Ennis wanted to hear because he wanted to keep his relationship with Ennis. Jack had treaded so lightly all those years, and after all that time, was quite frankly, sick and tired of it. He wanted to talk about it, to put it out there in the open, he wanted to say all that he couldn't say.

The last thing is what Jack's father said to Ennis about the "ranch neighbor" (obviously Randall). I think he just said it to hurt Ennis. Twist Sr, a homophobic patriarch finally comes face to face with that "queer" his son's been with for all those years, so you can imagine how someone with his mindset felt at that moment. He wanted to cut Ennis with his words, and he did for a moment. Until Ennis finds the shirt and realizes that there was only one true love in Jack's life.

[FlwrChild]

 

I think he loved Ennis so much that he would still try no matter how much it hurt him over and over again. I don't think he died doubting Ennis' love for him, I think he died doubting that his dream would ever come true (Jack being the idealist had held onto it all those years) so it was the first time that he realized it might not happen. Jack might have said more or did more to make Ennis realize, but he was always to fearful of Ennis walking away. This goes all the way back to that first summer on Brokeback Mountain when Ennis says "I ain't queer", and Jack replies "me neither". Jack knew he was gay and was comfortable in his own skin, but said what Ennis wanted to hear because he wanted to keep his relationship with Ennis. Jack had treaded so lightly all those years, and after all that time, was quite frankly, sick and tired of it. He wanted to talk about it, to put it out there in the open, he wanted to say all that he couldn't say.

This is the way I've always felt about it as well. After all those years of holding it in, treading carefully so as not to spook Ennis into possibly breaking it off, Jack just needed to get it out. And as the original story tells us they torqued things back to where they'd always been and the movie shows this by Ennis sending the postcard to Jack for a November meeting, their relationship hadn't changed but Jack had faced some uncomfortable truths about how it would always be and while I don't believe he'd given up on Ennis, perhaps he felt a little more weary about it all and had lost that hope for a life together. Would he have walked away now that he realized that would never happen? I just can't bring myself to believe that he would. And if it were earlier in their lives, one could argue that walking away and looking for a meaningful relationship elsewhere might be better for him but by the time of the confrontation, Ennis was in Jack's heart irrevocably and I think asking him to walk away would be like asking him to stop breathing. Nope, Jack was in it for as long as they could ride it, just like Ennis. Whatever the difficulties or disappointments.

[bluemountainsky]

I agree that Jack wouldn't have given up altogether. He could never do that, what they had was too powerful a love. He loved Ennis so much that he never could just stop seeing him as long as he was alive. And remember they were going to meet again in November, (but then Jack died in August, I guess?)...Jack was upset that he had to wait that long to see him again, but he would have come along on the trip in November just like he always did. Maybe Ennis was finally going to come around...if only Jack hadn't died. Maybe Jack was going to take him to Lightning Flat the next trip, then he would have seen the shirts...I wish he had taken him to Lightning Flat some time in all those years damn it. What Ennis had to live with the rest of his life must have been unbearable...the regret of what could have been, all that time wasted when they could have been together all those years. That's a very big burden to carry around for...who knows how long Ennis lived after Jack.

[lancecowboy]

Well, I think Jack learned to live with the Ennis with the low startle point. The divorce scene was his harmonica getting flattened when he was thrown. That's the price we pay for love...accepting the beloved for better or for worse. Jack understood the predicament with the alimony and the attachment to his daughters. Every blended family has to face the dilemma of conflicting loyalties. If you can't fix it then you just gotta stand it. Jack had been standing it for years, and he would keep on standing it because he can't bear to quit the love that got no rein.  

We can't choose who we love. And we can't choose who we unlove. That's the whole point of "I wish I knew how to quit you."

[jackster]

Wow! That's what I love about this place. Years later and new members still bring new insights to an old movie that we all love.

Indeed!
Very interesting discussions here about Jack's relationship with OMT and Jack's ideas about his relationship with Ennis. Just a couple of additional thoughts from reading these - It seems that OMT felt major disappointment about Jack long before anything about him being homosexual would have been apparent, there was the pissing scene Ennis recalls during his visit to Lightning Flat, which results in Jack's conclusion "No way to get it right with him after that." If Jack was as uncoordinated as a youth as later, couldn't shoot, couldn't work a can opener, etc. OMT probably felt the kid was gonna' be no help around the ranch and was destined to be a "momma's boy". He was dismissive of him (and abusive) very early on.

About Jack's understanding and maybe accepting the painful nature of his relationship with Ennis, I think Annie tries to give us some pretty direct insight into this by focusing on the shirts, first by starting the SS with them "The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft" which I feel means to show that Ennis had come to accept Jack and his love of Jack, and all that means. And then by ending the SS with them which shows how Jack had come to accept (and live with) Ennis "the pair like two skins, one inside the other, two in one".

Not necessarily the relationship either had wanted, neither of 'em could fix it, but both of 'em were able to stand it, because they both knew that they (Ennis and Jack) were like two skins one inside the other, created by nature, a force of nature. I personally don't believe Jack would have kept these symbols, icons, of their relationship dating from its very beginning, if he had given up on it. They would have been very painful reminders of its failure. To me they were like reminders of its ultimate strength (for both Jack and eventually Ennis).
 

[bluemountainsky]

It's true that Jack's father abused him from early on, when Jack was but a small child. But I think the disdain grew even more as Jack got older and his father realized his son was "queer". I think that was the real reason he did not want the ashes scattered on Brokeback, and the reason he was so cruel to Ennis. He was frowning upon their relationship in that way, showing how much he disapproved. Both Jack and Ennis had very bad relationships with their fathers, but I don't think Jack's father would have crossed a certain line that Ennis's father surely would have. John Twist wouldn't kill his son for being gay, while Ennis's father probably would. If Jack and Ennis had come and lived on his parents' ranch, well John Twist would have known perfectly well what was going on, but wouldn't harm them physically. Ennis's father takes it to another level...remember that Ennis believed that he most likely was Earl's killer...I think Ennis was completely terrified of his father, while Jack had a very strained relationship with his father, but wasn't scared of him. The fear Ennis had of his father was so strong, that if he had been alive, I doubt Ennis would have had a romantic relationship with Jack at all, no matter how much he wanted to, the fear of what his father would do would have not allowed him to.

Back to the topic of Jack "quitting" Ennis...this film has so much of that, characters saying lines but what they mean is something completely different from what they say aloud, the "I wish I could quit you" line is a perfect example of that. Jack loved Ennis and had spent twenty years trying to get him to listen and make the small dream come true...the dream of a couple in love, being together all the time, living together, but over and over again Ennis denied him that, because he could not overcome his fears, Ennis oblivious to how much he was hurting Jack's feelings time and again by doing this. But Jack's love for him was unconditional, and so Jack would never give up on him. In the end, "I wish I could quit you"...it means "I love you, I love you, Ennis, no matter how much hurt it's caused me, no matter how much this living a lie is tearing us apart and denying us our right to be together"...it meant Jack would never give up. Ennis was the one true love of his life and Jack was in it for the long haul. This is why Ennis ultimately suffers the most, Jack dies knowing he did everything humanly possible to be the one he loved, while Ennis lives for years after, lonely and with immense sorry and regret that he was a large part of the reason for their suffering being apart, and with the added sorrow and regret of how much Jack's feelings had been hurt, while Ennis hadn't even realized it till then. Ennis learns the lesson, but pays a heavy price.

[rimasworld]

It always makes me wonder why Jack never approached Ennis with the idea of living at his folks place when he had mentioned it to his folks and also said some other fella was going to do it later on in the story. I guess he kind of hinted at it when he suggested they get a little cow and calf operation but when Ennis shot that idea down maybe Jack just gave up on that? After the divorce he never asked Ennis to move there with him, but maybe he knew Ennis would not leave his girls, although Jack's folks place was a lot closer than Texas. Jack's folks seemed to be out in the middle of no where so I can see Ennis living there but definitely not college educated Randall who had a good job and family in Texas. Ennis was used to not having anything so living and working on that god forsaken ranch he would have had no problem with. I sure Jack would have, but to be with Ennis full time I think he still would have been happy to make the trade off and leave the money and Texas in his rear view mirror. 

[bluemountainsky]

I think Jack spoke to Ennis numerous times throughout their meetings together over the years about living together. The look of utter frustration he had at the last meeting showed a man who had lost his dream. The "cow-and-calf operation" he mentioned at the first reunion was him talking about how he wanted to go to Lightning Flat with Ennis and transform his parents' place, and build a log cabin on the premises to live in. Jack also hints at it the first summer in 1963 when he tells Ennis that he will be at his parents' ranch throughout the winter, in hopes that Ennis will go there. I think over the years, Jack proposed many plans for him and Ennis to live together, one involving Lightning Flat, and others not. I think he probably also suggested Ennis go to Texas with him, maybe sometimes suggested a place like Denver too.

The main point was that Jack didn't care where they lived as long as he was with Ennis, as long as he got to be with him all the time and see him every day. He wanted to live together as a couple, and Ennis's refusal of that is what sent Jack on a path of misery, where as the years went by, he became more and more sad and frustrated, hence the heavy drinking, the trips to Mexico and the affair with Randall. Ennis really had no idea how much he was breaking Jack's heart by refusing his proposal. I also find it hard to believe that Randall would want to leave everything behind to go to a place like Lightning Flat, another reason why I think what John Twist said was just a lie to hurt Ennis. There is no doubt that Jack was having an affair with Randall, but as to whether he had actually asked Randall the same thing he'd asked of Ennis (to come live with him), I doubt it. I think that was just something Jack's father made up to hurt Ennis and belittle his own son and Ennis's relationship. Fortunately, Jack's mother was kind, and helped Ennis find the shirts so that he would know what the truth really is, that Jack truly, deeply loved him, and he was the only one in Jack's heart for all that time.

[FlwrChild]

I guess I have a slightly different take on the relationship between Jack and his father than some (and maybe on Jack himself for that matter; I don't think there's any indication that he's uncoordinated or necessarily perpetually bad with a can opener - I think those scenes were just meant to show that he liked to talk big and couldn't always deliver. But to me it also meant he always aimed high and hoped for the best. That's how he got Ennis, after all  ).

Whether Jack was uncoordinated as a child or not though had no bearing on his father's abuse imo. Abusive people are abusive and it isn't about what the other person did to set it off. Especially in people who abuse children. Jack could have been born perfect in every way, did everything his father said from the moment he could walk and talk, and OMT still would have found a reason to beat and berate him. If it wasn't being queer or peeing on the toilet seat, it would have been the way he walked, the tone of his voice or the way he baled hay. The trigger isn't the cause; the cause is the anger inside of the abuser - the trigger is just the excuse the abuser uses to justify his/her actions.  But as to the way Jack's dad talked about him when Ennis visited Lightning Flat, I've always thought that his resentment was less about Jack being queer and more about the fact that he left and never came back to help with the ranch. Said he was always talking about it, how he and Ennis were going to move up there, build a cabin and help Dad get the ranch in shape. But that it never came to pass (his contempt here seems less about the notion of Jack and Ennis living together and more about the fact that Jack didn't deliver and actually come do that). I'm sure he had the standard amount of contempt for homosexuals that most rural people had at that time but I've always felt that if Jack had followed through on that promise, if he had come back to Lightning Flat and built a cabin with Ennis and they'd whipped the old man's ranch into shape, he would have turned a blind eye as long as they didn't reveal their relationship in his presence and he had a successful ranch. To me it just seemed like his resentments were all about being left with no help on the ranch and had nothing to do with Jack's orientation. Especially since both the original story and the film used the same very specific language when OMT told Ennis about that.

And like everyone else, I certainly think he added the part about the rancher coming up instead to hurt Ennis. Presumably Jack did actually tell him that because it seems unlikely those are the details his dad would make up, but we'll never know if Jack truly intended that or just wanted to say it to get dad off his back or take a jab at Ennis out of frustration (even though he never would have thought that Ennis would find out he'd said it, perhaps he just said it in a moment of anger). Being a romantic, I naturally cannot consider the possibility that Jack would really give up on Ennis and bring someone else up there so in my heart it was an empty remark to dad in a passing moment. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

And while I'm not entirely sure why the old man refused to allow Jack's ashes to be scattered on Brokeback, I also think that had more to do with his leaving and less with his orientation. He said Jack "thought he was too godamn special to be buried in the family plot." I think insisting on that was his Dad's way of (quite literally) putting him in his place, asserting the only control he had left over where Jack did or didn't go. Was there any shred of actual attachment for his son buried in all of that resentment and animosity? Who knows? By this point in the story, I have no sympathy for Jack's dad. He made his choices in life. Had he treated his son better, maybe Jack would have stayed. Or come back at some point and helped him build something. But that lonely house on that untended piece of land that we saw upon Ennis' visit is the fate that those choices brought him. It's just enormously sad that Jack's mom was stuck there with him.

[bluemountainsky]

I do agree that Jack's father would have abused him had he not been gay as well. Jack being gay was only part of the father's resentment. An abuser is an abuser, and he would have come up with something no matter what Jack did. To a parent like that, their child can "never do anything right". I do believe though he wasn't the big monster that Ennis's father was. He liked to be the "stud duck", most of his abuse were cruel, awful words that cut emotionally and psychologically. He wasn't the type to grab a tire iron and beat someone to death. If Jack had brought Ennis to his parents' ranch, it would be obvious to Jack's father what type of relationship his son was having with this man...but Jack's father would have just ignored it as long as he had help on the ranch. I disagree however that Jack's father insisting his ashes be kept on the ranch was not, at least in part, about the fact that his son was gay. I think it was. He knew what Brokeback Mountain meant to Jack, and that it had to do with him being in love with another man.

I just can't imagine any homophobe wanting to acknowledge Ennis and Jack's love, to him, just like someone said, that place is where "my no-good queer son did all those things with that other queer". It was disgraceful for him, and he was ashamed of his son. If I was Jack, I honestly would have never gone back to visit his that ranch. Unfortunately what happens with children who are abused or treated badly by a parent growing up, they develop a sort of paradoxical relationship with them. Jack resented his father on one hand, but on the other hand, still longed to be accepted by him. Of course, another reason Jack would go to the ranch is to visit his mother, who looked like she did actually love him and accept him for who he was. The way she treated Ennis made that apparent, she treated Ennis like a beloved son-in-law. I know I went off topic sorry.

Back to the actual question, I do believe either Jack just blurted out on his last trip to his parents' ranch something about bringing Randall up there instead. But I believe he just blurted it out in frustration,  not really meaning it. Remember, that was the last trip when Jack could no longer keep everything inside, and had shouted at Ennis and blamed him for a large part of their misery. John Twist then uses those words to hurt Ennis, and show his disapproval of the relationship. Once again, John Twist knowing he couldn't do anything about the relationship, Jack would do what Jack wanted to do, because unlike a lot of abused kids, Jack had a tremendous amount of courage and always fought for his right to be happy. The only thing John Twist could do is deny Ennis the ashes and make some hurtful comments to him. But that was all water under the bridge when Ennis found the shirts, then no cruel words from anyone could hurt the truth.

[lancecowboy]

Well said, FlwrChild. Your articulate analysis of abusers reminded me of Good Will Hunting, and Robim Williams telling Will, "It's not your fault." 

Jack indeed told Ennis about the little cow and calf operation during their first reunion, by the river, when Ennis thanked heaven and the stars. The response from Ennis shut him down in tears. I doubt Jack brought it up again much, considering there'd be his parents there. Imagine Ennis facing a father figure while shacking up with another man. Not going to happen. Jack was caught between a rock and a hard place, and the damn unsatisfactory situation drove him to drink, where he took solace over the rainbow, where bluebirds sing next to a whiskey spring. Telling the old man about Randall was just Jack's angry reaction to the Last Confrontation. That wasn't going anywhere. If Jack had lived through November, he'd change his tune again soon enough.

"I wish I knew how to quit you." Yeah, that's how it is with Brokeback Mountain, Ennis and Jack. Years from now, I'd still be like Jack getting a response from Ennis, or Ennis getting a postcard from Jack. Redlining all the scenes and lines of dialogue from the movie and short story, as soon as someone mention anything related to Brokeback Mountain, and all the associated memories come flooding back. There's no rein on this one. You bet.

 

[bluemountainsky]

Well said, FlwrChild. Your articulate analysis of abusers reminded me of Good Will Hunting, and Robim Williams telling Will, "It's not your fault."  

Jack indeed told Ennis about the little cow and calf operation during their first reunion, by the river, when Ennis thanked heaven and the stars. The response from Ennis shut him down in tears. I doubt Jack brought it up again much, considering there'd be his parents there. Imagine Ennis facing a father figure while shacking up with another man. Not going to happen. Jack was caught between a rock and a hard place, and the damn unsatisfactory situation drove him to drink, where he took solace over the rainbow, where bluebirds sing next to a whiskey spring. Telling the old man about Randall was just Jack's angry reaction to the Last Confrontation. That wasn't going anywhere. If Jack had lived through November, he'd change his tune again soon enough.

"I wish I knew how to quit you." Yeah, that's how it is with Brokeback Mountain, Ennis and Jack. Years from now, I'd still be like Jack getting a response from Ennis, or Ennis getting a postcard from Jack. Redlining all the scenes and lines of dialogue from the movie and short story, as soon as someone mention anything related to Brokeback Mountain, and all the associated memories come flooding back. There's no rein on this one. You bet.

 

I agree completely agree with this! I believe Jack only said it that last time he was at his parents' house because he'd just had a fight with Ennis and he was frustrated and heartbroken. I don't think he was really serious about it. Come November, he would have been there with Ennis again...and perhaps Ennis was about to finally come around. I think perhaps Jack brought up the same proposal in different packages over the years...perhaps when he asked Ennis again it wasn't going to be the ranch and cabin at his parents' place, maybe Jack proposed that Ennis go to Texas or another state...Colorado comes to mind, because I remember Jack in the motel scene answering Ennis about what do people do when "this happens to them"...and Jack said...they go to Denver. I would imagine Jack asked Ennis several times over the years about the life together...and when he came over after the divorce, he didn't even have to say it...he was there for that reason.

 I think it was maybe after that time that he stopped asking though...and didn't bring it up again till the last time they saw each other. The divorce scene was the beginning of the end for Jack...after that he was never the same again, he became a very broken man and turned to drinking and trip to Mexico for dealing with the pain. Also, I don't blame him for having the affair with Randall...he really needed the companionship and feeling close to someone that he obviously couldn't get from prostitutes, and could only get from Ennis for two weeks out of a year...so I completely understand why he began the relationship with Randall. That was someone he could see often, and whom offered a real relationship. He needed someone to love, someone who cared for him. Of course, it wasn't the epic true love, man-of-his-dreams, soul mates relationship like he had with Ennis, that's something that only happens once-in-a-lifetime, but it was an average loving relationship, and far better than being alone and lonely.

[jackster]

"I wish I knew how to quit you." Yeah, that's how it is with Brokeback Mountain, Ennis and Jack. Years from now, I'd still be like Jack getting a response from Ennis, or Ennis getting a postcard from Jack. Redlining all the scenes and lines of dialogue from the movie and short story, as soon as someone mentions anything related to Brokeback Mountain, and all the associated memories come flooding back. There's no rein on this one. You bet.

Hey LC, . . I swear . . . .

     

[lancecowboy]

Hey LC, . . I swear . . . .

     

I'm not joking. After all these years, all of a sudden I find myself reading posts from 2007, reliving those early days when emotions ran all over the place, when PBS was raw and worn on the sleeve...like old friends telling tales of good old days. Every detail nuanced to bring back laughter and tears. Tears softened by time, laughter brightened by the passing years. We need a re-union...kiss. 

[Mahogany]

We know Jack didn't quit Ennis, because he died before November.
We have to imaginate what Ennis must have thought when he knew about the other fella... if Jack could possibly leave him.

I'm still analyzing it, but I guess Ennis realized Jack would never leave him (about the shirts), but I'm not totally sure yet, if the shirts really meant that for Ennis.

Notice. The trip for Lightning Flat was the longest trip he took in his whole life, knowing Jack was dead, if Jack just stopped answering his postcards, Ennis would hunt him in Texas, Lightning Flat and even in Mexico and bring his darling back for sure.