Author Topic: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers  (Read 311174 times)

Offline Rosie

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #330 on: Aug 07, 2006, 07:14 AM »


I also agree that the Romantic in all of us wants there to be a happy ending and for Jack and Ennis to live happily ever after - but BBM wouldn't be such a powerful story and film with that happy ending. 



ain't that the truth! ^f^

I was reading a book that included movie quotes today and one just jumped out of the page at me. It's for all of you who think that Jack did quit Ennis (You know I'm not one of you...well not always...but I'm getting 50/50..hope dies hard!) Here's the quote:

A relationship, I think, is like a shark. You know?
It has to constantly move forward or it dies.
And I think what we got on our hands is a dead shark.

Woody Allen as Alvy Singer in Annie Hall

Just had to post that one. But.... you see...it might move forward.... (there's just no stopping me!)  Here I go in circles again. %&)
Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline FlwrChild

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #331 on: Aug 07, 2006, 09:00 AM »
Keep the faith Rosie! I don't care if it's reasonable, I don't think Jack would ever quit Ennis. As long as there was breath in his body, he was breathin' it for Ennis. Couldn't help himself, poor boy. :\'( <^(
For a moment in our lives. Forever in our hearts.

"They were respectful of each other’s opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected." ~ BBM Short Story

There are three ways to ultimate success:
The first way is to be kind. The second way is to be kind. The third way is to be kind. (Mister Rogers)

Offline Rosie

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #332 on: Aug 07, 2006, 10:54 AM »
Keep the faith Rosie! I don't care if it's reasonable, I don't think Jack would ever quit Ennis. As long as there was breath in his body, he was breathin' it for Ennis. Couldn't help himself, poor boy. :\'( <^(

His life taken, his future taken, please.... not his dream too.....  :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
Let him have thought that Ennis had been thinking on it, and knowing he couldn't stand it the way it was any longer either,  he was going to make a change and move the relationship forward in November... PLEEEEEEASE!
Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #333 on: Aug 07, 2006, 12:07 PM »
It's entirely possible to go on loving someone although you know they're never going to do what you want them to; that Jack relizes that Ennis isn't going to give in and share that "sweet life" doesn't mean that he stops loving him for a minute. If you love someone for what they are, then you don't just stop because you can't. In other words, I thonk Jack gave up on the illusion that thiongs would one day be as he wanted them; he didn't give up on Ennis.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #334 on: Aug 08, 2006, 07:26 AM »
It's entirely possible to go on loving someone although you know they're never going to do what you want them to; that Jack relizes that Ennis isn't going to give in and share that "sweet life" doesn't mean that he stops loving him for a minute. If you love someone for what they are, then you don't just stop because you can't. In other words, I thonk Jack gave up on the illusion that thiongs would one day be as he wanted them; he didn't give up on Ennis.

Very well said.

I think most of us agree that Jack never gave up loving Ennis.  I do think Jack gave up on having a sweet life with Ennis after that last meeting.


 

Offline JT

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #335 on: Aug 08, 2006, 06:28 PM »
Quote
I think most of us agree that Jack never gave up loving Ennis.  I do think Jack gave up on having a sweet life with Ennis after that last meeting.

I totally agree that Jack will never stop loving Ennis.  Their love is so strong that even death won't stop it.  But as sad as it may be, Jack also realizes his dreams will not come true.  I hate to think about that.  I also think Jack is trying to quit Ennis because he loves him too much.  How successful was that "quit" is something we'll never know.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #336 on: Aug 09, 2006, 08:25 AM »
I totally agree that Jack will never stop loving Ennis.  Their love is so strong that even death won't stop it.  But as sad as it may be, Jack also realizes his dreams will not come true.  I hate to think about that.  I also think Jack is trying to quit Ennis because he loves him too much.  How successful was that "quit" is something we'll never know.

This is what I believe in.




browneyes

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #337 on: Aug 09, 2006, 03:22 PM »
I think Jack might've tried to quit Ennis, but it was tearing him apart. Like Lureen said, "he [Jack] drank a lot". If Jack could barely stand being away from Ennis for a long period of time, how could he stand never seeing him again? I think he would've came in November but demanded some changes. But if he really did give up on Ennis and he thought Ennis didn't want to see him again ("let me be"), I think he was ready to die. If only he knew Ennis wanted to see him in November.... 

Offline FlwrChild

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #338 on: Aug 09, 2006, 03:29 PM »
I think Jack might've tried to quit Ennis, but it was tearing him apart. Like Lureen said, "he [Jack] drank a lot". If Jack could barely stand being away from Ennis for a long period of time, how could he stand never seeing him again? I think he would've came in November but demanded some changes. But if he really did give up on Ennis and he thought Ennis didn't want to see him again ("let me be"), I think he was ready to die. If only he knew Ennis wanted to see him in November.... 

If only.... :(
Now I wonder if he felt relieved at the end? 'It's over; it's done. I'll have peace at last.'  :-\\ :\'(
For a moment in our lives. Forever in our hearts.

"They were respectful of each other’s opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected." ~ BBM Short Story

There are three ways to ultimate success:
The first way is to be kind. The second way is to be kind. The third way is to be kind. (Mister Rogers)

browneyes

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #339 on: Aug 09, 2006, 04:31 PM »
And sometimes I wonder is it possible Jack broke it off with Randall, like Ennis did Cassie. Ennis knew he was never going to be happy with Cassie. Sometimes I wonder did Jack think the same thing about Randall. That could be a reason why his idea "never came to pass". Maybe Jack being with Randall just made his life worst. Sex might be good when you're doing it but afterwards (if it's not with the right person), it just makes you feel lonely and worst. Which probably just made Jack miss Ennis even more. That's what I think could've possibly happened with Jack.
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2006, 04:48 PM by browneyes »

Offline FlwrChild

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #340 on: Aug 09, 2006, 04:51 PM »
Very good point browneyes! Thank you.
For a moment in our lives. Forever in our hearts.

"They were respectful of each other’s opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected." ~ BBM Short Story

There are three ways to ultimate success:
The first way is to be kind. The second way is to be kind. The third way is to be kind. (Mister Rogers)

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #341 on: Aug 09, 2006, 05:09 PM »
And sometimes I wonder is it possible Jack broke it off with Randall, like Ennis did Cassie. Ennis knew he was never going to be happy with Cassie. Sometimes I wonder did Jack think the same thing about Randall. That could be a reason why his idea "never came to pass". Maybe Jack being with Randall just made his life worst. Sex might be good when you're doing it but afterwards (if it's not with the right person), it just makes you feel lonely and worst. Which probably just made Jack miss Ennis even more. That's what I think could've possibly happened with Jack.

Yes, nicely said, browneyes.  IMO, Jack would never be happy without Ennis.  He was trying to move on.  I really think death, in a way, spared him the disappointment.


Offline welshwitch

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #342 on: Aug 09, 2006, 05:45 PM »
There comes a point in a relationship that's going nowhere and causing increasing pain wher one accepts that the best thing to do is make a clean break. After the amputation, because that's what it is, there's a temporary euphoria and an illusory sense of possibilities opening up now the feeling of entanglement and entrapment is gone. But the reality is that the possibilities never seem worth pursuing. or if pursued turn to dust while the loss comes back over and over - if love is involved, it can't be amputated, and every attempt to deny it only makes things worse.

There are times when I see Jack in this position and think that he was at least dead and free of the situation that torments him.

browneyes

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #343 on: Aug 09, 2006, 07:19 PM »
As I said before in another thread. I think the Ennis/Cassie realationship is supposed to be similar to the Jack/Randall. Cassie was attracted to Ennis as was Randall to Jack. And Ennis acted/pretended he was interested, as did Jack. Eventually Ennis and Cassie get together as does Jack and Randall. Even though with Jack and Randall it was probably more for sex (I didn't get that vibe with Cassie, I think she really wanted to be with someone). Ennis can't devote himself to Cassie because he's devoted to Jack. Same with Jack and Randall (even though Randall probably didn't care or was the same way). So Ennis eventually breaks it off with, her as (possibly) Jack did with Randall. It's just a thought.

And this in something else I've concluded. After Jack talks to Ennis about the thing with the "foreman's wife", and then he says "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it"- I think after that he probably thought or wanted to say "that is why I look for consolation with other men, alcohol, anything to help me stand the pain of being away from you, but at the end of the day the pain is still there".

             You dig it?  ;)
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2006, 07:35 PM by browneyes »

Offline MississaugaRed

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #344 on: Aug 10, 2006, 06:11 AM »


And this in something else I've concluded. After Jack talks to Ennis about the thing with the "foreman's wife", and then he says "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it"- I think after that he probably thought or wanted to say "that is why I look for consolation with other men, alcohol, anything to help me stand the pain of being away from you, but at the end of the day the pain is still there".
             You dig it?  ;)

I'm digging it, browneyes!  He's confessing to more then simpling missing Ennis.  Love your interpretation!   O0
"Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan".
My hovercraft is full of eels.

“I miss you,” Jack whispered. “I miss you.” He felt loved. He felt heard. Shades of Grey by MidwestGirl

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #345 on: Aug 10, 2006, 06:57 AM »
And this in something else I've concluded. After Jack talks to Ennis about the thing with the "foreman's wife", and then he says "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it"- I think after that he probably thought or wanted to say "that is why I look for consolation with other men, alcohol, anything to help me stand the pain of being away from you, but at the end of the day the pain is still there".

             You dig it?  ;)

I do thjink this is true.  "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" was a cry from the heart.  It was also a sort of confession.  I did think Ennis understood, but remained speechless.


Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #346 on: Aug 10, 2006, 07:03 AM »
There are times when I see Jack in this position and think that he was at least dead and free of the situation that torments him.

Come, Sleep! O Sleep, the certain knot of peace,
The baiting-place of wit, the balm of woe...

Offline MississaugaRed

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #347 on: Aug 10, 2006, 07:13 AM »
There comes a point in a relationship that's going nowhere and causing increasing pain wher one accepts that the best thing to do is make a clean break. After the amputation, because that's what it is, there's a temporary euphoria and an illusory sense of possibilities opening up now the feeling of entanglement and entrapment is gone. But the reality is that the possibilities never seem worth pursuing. or if pursued turn to dust while the loss comes back over and over - if love is involved, it can't be amputated, and every attempt to deny it only makes things worse.

There are times when I see Jack in this position and think that he was at least dead and free of the situation that torments him.

I can see you point on this, welshwitch.  When people suffer physically we can come to see death as a mercy. So why not when they've suffered so much emotionally?

I just can't see Jack as every being a quitter though, not of life. He wouldn't (I think) willingly have gone out of this world when a future may have brought better things.   Even if he cut himself off from Ennis ( a big IF) I just have trouble picturing that big-hearted dreamer ever believing that death was better than life, regardless of the pain.     :-\\

But that's just my take on him ... maybe he was ready for the quiet, in the end ...
"Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan".
My hovercraft is full of eels.

“I miss you,” Jack whispered. “I miss you.” He felt loved. He felt heard. Shades of Grey by MidwestGirl

browneyes

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #348 on: Aug 10, 2006, 07:17 AM »
Did you guys hear that supposedly in the script, after Jack said "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it", Ennis was originally gonna say "I know the feeling". But I guess they didn't want to include that. I think it would've been great if he said. It would give more proof to Jack that Ennis does love him.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #349 on: Aug 10, 2006, 07:23 AM »
Did you guys hear that supposedly in the script, after Jack said "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it", Ennis was originally gonna say "I know the feeling". But I guess they didn't want to include that. I think it would've been great if he said. It would give more proof to Jack that Ennis does love him.

Perhaps.  The silence is quite ambivalent.  Some people have interpreted this silence in a negative light -- as a refusal to acknowledge Jack's implicit declaration of love.  I really don't know.  That silenece can be interpreted both ways: as a refusal or an implicit acknowledgement.  It depeneds on your perspective.  For Ennis to have said something would have removed that ambivalence.  Not exactly sure if this is good or bad.


Offline camellia

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #350 on: Aug 10, 2006, 07:55 AM »
Did you guys hear that supposedly in the script, after Jack said "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it", Ennis was originally gonna say "I know the feeling". But I guess they didn't want to include that. I think it would've been great if he said. It would give more proof to Jack that Ennis does love him.

Perhaps.  The silence is quite ambivalent.  Some people have interpreted this silence in a negative light -- as a refusal to acknowledge Jack's implicit declaration of love.  I really don't know.  That silenece can be interpreted both ways: as a refusal or an implicit acknowledgement.  It depeneds on your perspective.  For Ennis to have said something would have removed that ambivalence.  Not exactly sure if this is good or bad.


I don't think the silence was a negative. We know Ennis is a man of few words. He had trouble saying what he feels. But in the very next seen we see Ennis and Jack asleep in the tent with Ennis's arm around Jack. I think he could always show Jack how he felt about him even if he couldn't say it.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #351 on: Aug 10, 2006, 08:10 AM »
Did you guys hear that supposedly in the script, after Jack said "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it", Ennis was originally gonna say "I know the feeling". But I guess they didn't want to include that. I think it would've been great if he said. It would give more proof to Jack that Ennis does love him.

Perhaps.  The silence is quite ambivalent.  Some people have interpreted this silence in a negative light -- as a refusal to acknowledge Jack's implicit declaration of love.  I really don't know.  That silenece can be interpreted both ways: as a refusal or an implicit acknowledgement.  It depeneds on your perspective.  For Ennis to have said something would have removed that ambivalence.  Not exactly sure if this is good or bad.


I don't think the silence was a negative. We know Ennis is a man of few words. He had trouble saying what he feels. But in the very next seen we see Ennis and Jack asleep in the tent with Ennis's arm around Jack. I think he could always show Jack how he felt about him even if he couldn't say it.

For the record, I interpreted this silence as an implicit acknowledgement.  :)

Again, it depends on the viewer.  I have read very good contrary arguments in this forum.


Offline Rosie

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #352 on: Aug 10, 2006, 09:25 AM »
There comes a point in a relationship that's going nowhere and causing increasing pain wher one accepts that the best thing to do is make a clean break. After the amputation, because that's what it is, there's a temporary euphoria and an illusory sense of possibilities opening up now the feeling of entanglement and entrapment is gone. But the reality is that the possibilities never seem worth pursuing. or if pursued turn to dust while the loss comes back over and over - if love is involved, it can't be amputated, and every attempt to deny it only makes things worse......



The first part of your post really struck me ww. But I like to think that that may be what happened to Ennis. That's why he sent the postcard about November. Whatever he said on the spring trip, he now knew that he could stand it. What he couldn't stand was being without Jack.
If only Jack had made that November meeting. And I'm in one of my - yes he would have, he'd have had to find out what Ennis was thinking -moods. 
 
But at the very least, I think that maybe neither of them knew what was going to happen. I think that November would have been a turning point, but one that wasn't already set. A decision that they would come to together. They'd had their time to think on their own. November would have been the time to tell the other what they had concluded, see what the other one thought and move on from there. Wherever that lead.  I just don't think you can end a twenty year relationship without talking about it together. Even if you both don't come to the same conclusion.
Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #353 on: Aug 10, 2006, 09:32 AM »
But at the very least, I think that maybe neither of them knew what was going to happen. I think that November would have been a turning point, but one that wasn't already set. A decision that they would come to together. They'd had their time to think on their own. November would have been the time to tell the other what they had concluded, see what the other one thought and move on from there. Wherever that lead.  I just don't think you can end a twenty year relationship without talking about it together. Even if you both don't come to the same conclusion.

I wish it were so.  Even if the short story said that things got torgued back to almost where it had always been, I sense that Ennis needed only a slight perturbation.  Not usre, but how I wish this were so.



Offline MississaugaRed

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #354 on: Aug 10, 2006, 09:41 AM »
Did you guys hear that supposedly in the script, after Jack said "sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it", Ennis was originally gonna say "I know the feeling". But I guess they didn't want to include that. I think it would've been great if he said. It would give more proof to Jack that Ennis does love him.

Perhaps.  The silence is quite ambivalent.  Some people have interpreted this silence in a negative light -- as a refusal to acknowledge Jack's implicit declaration of love.  I really don't know.  That silenece can be interpreted both ways: as a refusal or an implicit acknowledgement.  It depeneds on your perspective.  For Ennis to have said something would have removed that ambivalence.  Not exactly sure if this is good or bad.


I don't think the silence was a negative. We know Ennis is a man of few words. He had trouble saying what he feels. But in the very next seen we see Ennis and Jack asleep in the tent with Ennis's arm around Jack. I think he could always show Jack how he felt about him even if he couldn't say it.

For the record, I interpreted this silence as an implicit acknowledgement.  :)

Again, it depends on the viewer.  I have read very good contrary arguments in this forum.



A lovely discussion, tpe  & browneyes!

Ennis's lack of a verbal reply to  ".. I miss you ..."  allows us to view it as a silent acknowledge (if you're of the mind to read it that way, which of course I am!) and certainly plays into how most of the movie was presented.  Not telling us everything, leaving room between what we are told and what we know intutively.  There are other instances where they've deliberately pared down the speech in order to allow more room for the viewer to read into the moments what they "see" or "sense" from them instead of merely what they "hear", I think.   We've mentioned before that there was dialogue in the ss for the motel scene that never made it to the sp or film, likely for that very reason.  In a (great) film with great actors, vocalization isn't the only method for relaying the intent of the story.  God knows, Jake and Heath conveyed plenty when words weren't spoken at all ...  :(

So for ambivalence, also we have the look on Jack's face when Ennis is driving away for the last time.  Could be that look of sadness and frustration on Jack's face is a signal that he's had all he can take; could be he's feeling as bad for Ennis as he is for himself and knows in spite of that he's going to keep coming back until Ennis tells him otherwise ...  The "wish I knew how" part of the quitting, more ambivalence, more discussion here by those who read it one way or another.
"Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan".
My hovercraft is full of eels.

“I miss you,” Jack whispered. “I miss you.” He felt loved. He felt heard. Shades of Grey by MidwestGirl

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #355 on: Aug 10, 2006, 09:50 AM »
A lovely discussion, tpe  & browneyes!

Ennis's lack of a verbal reply to  ".. I miss you ..."  allows us to view it as a silent acknowledge (if you're of the mind to read it that way, which of course I am!) and certainly plays into how most of the movie was presented.  Not telling us everything, leaving room between what we are told and what we know intutively.  There are other instances where they've deliberately pared down the speech in order to allow more room for the viewer to read into the moments what they "see" or "sense" from them instead of merely what they "hear", I think.   We've mentioned before that there was dialogue in the ss for the motel scene that never made it to the sp or film, likely for that very reason.  In a (great) film with great actors, vocalization isn't the only method for relaying the intent of the story.  God knows, Jake and Heath conveyed plenty when words weren't spoken at all ...  :(

So for ambivalence, also we have the look on Jack's face when Ennis is driving away for the last time.  Could be that look of sadness and frustration on Jack's face is a signal that he's had all he can take; could be he's feeling as bad for Ennis as he is for himself and knows in spite of that he's going to keep coming back until Ennis tells him otherwise ...  The "wish I knew how" part of the quitting, more ambivalence, more discussion here by those who read it one way or another.

Yes, I have read this in some other posts (it could have been one of yours, MississaugaRed).  I must say that it made me realize that the silence could be interpreted the other way.  I do agree that Jack's face was sad the next morning, but I had initially connected this with leavetaking and the inevitable wait for another chance to meet. 


Offline Rosie

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #356 on: Aug 10, 2006, 10:00 AM »



......So for ambivalence, also we have the look on Jack's face when Ennis is driving away for the last time.  Could be that look of sadness and frustration on Jack's face is a signal that he's had all he can take; could be he's feeling as bad for Ennis as he is for himself and knows in spite of that he's going to keep coming back until Ennis tells him otherwise ...  The "wish I knew how" part of the quitting, more ambivalence, more discussion here by those who read it one way or another.

The discussion here by people who see things differently to me is what keeps me coming back. Along with the posts of people who see it the same way that I do, of course.  But to say the way I do there is wrong, because now during the course of these discussions I find that sometimes when I go back to the film I can see things in the other way. Which gives me more to discuss and think about! It's a very pleasant little circle we got going on here.... <^(   But I still think that face shows anger, depression, but unknowing too. If he had just decided to let Ennis go for good and never see him again, I think he would look more tearfull and less angry. (Sorry - I just couldn't help myself  ^f^)
Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline MississaugaRed

  • Jack + Ennis
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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #357 on: Aug 10, 2006, 10:01 AM »

But at the very least, I think that maybe neither of them knew what was going to happen. I think that November would have been a turning point, but one that wasn't already set. A decision that they would come to together. They'd had their time to think on their own. November would have been the time to tell the other what they had concluded, see what the other one thought and move on from there. Wherever that lead.  I just don't think you can end a twenty year relationship without talking about it together. Even if you both don't come to the same conclusion.

Rosie, that's a very astute conclusion.  I like to hope the same thing.   ^f^   That if Jack had lived, at the very least they would have had an opportunity to really talk, now that a lot of what they had been hiding was out in the open ...  :(
"Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan".
My hovercraft is full of eels.

“I miss you,” Jack whispered. “I miss you.” He felt loved. He felt heard. Shades of Grey by MidwestGirl

Offline MississaugaRed

  • Jack + Ennis
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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #358 on: Aug 10, 2006, 10:05 AM »
But I still think that face shows anger, depression, but unknowing too. If he had just decided to let Ennis go for good and never see him again, I think he would look more tearfull and less angry. (Sorry - I just couldn't help myself  ^f^)

Rosie, his face here is the very essence of ambivalence.  I don't think he himself could have sorted out everythin he was feeling at that moment, not without much time to ponder.

Reminds me a little of the turmoil on Ennis's face when they had to leave Brokeback early that first summer.  Another bookend in a film full of bookends.
"Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan".
My hovercraft is full of eels.

“I miss you,” Jack whispered. “I miss you.” He felt loved. He felt heard. Shades of Grey by MidwestGirl

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #359 on: Aug 10, 2006, 10:06 AM »


A lot of moviegoers hate any form of ambivalence, especially close to the end.

But I think it is one of the strong points of BBM.

Jack's and Ennis's intentions still retain an ambivalence up to the very end. It is wonderful to acknowledge that we can't pin them down entirely, especially in this last confrontation.