Topic: Sexual Roles in SNIT and Other BBM Sex Scenes

[Classic287]

The prostate gland, to be exact......

Yes.

It is a question of recognizing it as a the g-spot, shall we say.

[vedrana]

Well, I just found this thread and love it!  I know what are you thinking, but it's just that I asked myself the same question and had no knowledge how the things are going in physical love between 2 men.

 

But few posts in this thread gave me much better picture.... hm...



Ennis as a virgin took an active role in FNIT, and for him I suppose that was the way things are. Jack so willingly surrendered and let Ennis turn him around. For a guy like Ennis, who did it for the first time, that was the only way of making love that he knew of and he was not able to accept another role.

Anyway, thinking how they completely belonged to each other, how they loved each other and how they were devoted to each other, any kind of lovemaking should be possible, but to imagine Ennis in passive role - I just can't! I don't see him on all his four!

I can leave only a tiny possibility that he could take passive role much much later when he became comfortable about it. But at beginning of their physical relationship - Jack was always passive! IMO, of course. 

[babytammy7]

Anyway, thinking how they completely belonged to each other, how they loved each other and how they were devoted to each other, any kind of lovemaking should be possible, but to imagine Ennis in passive role - I just can't! I don't see him on all his four!

  Oh well, there are TONS of other postures that two guys can use to make love (you should read slash...   ). But I get what you are saying. I love Ennis as top and Jack as bottom, and, like you, I believe that in their first lovemakings Jack used to be the passive one. Truth is I often think that Jack was almost always the bottom one, because he accepted his sexuality and he had not as many problems as being gay like Ennis had. But, lots of other brokies think that Ennis often was bottom too. So who knows? We were not there to see what the real deal was, right? Oh yes, we wish!!!   

[vedrana]

Oh well, there are TONS of other postures that two guys can use to make love (you should read slash...   ). But I get what you are saying. I love Ennis as top and Jack as bottom, and, like you, I believe that in their first lovemakings Jack used to be the passive one. Truth is I often think that Jack was almost always the bottom one, because he accepted his sexuality and he had not as many problems as being gay like Ennis had. But, lots of other brokies think that Ennis often was bottom too. So who knows? We were not there to see what the real deal was, right? Oh yes, we wish!!!   

Well,I should obviously inquire better about it!   

Anyway, maybe it is better that we don't know everything about the story. In that way, we can always use our imagination (like I did in my fanfic  )!!! 

But as I said, the way I see it - Ennis was up! 

[Lobsel-Vith]

Well I've never really given it much thought but I had always thought that Jack was the passive while Ennis took the more dominant role. From points in the film, it always seemed that Jack would fit the shoes of the more passive in the relationship. Although I think my point would be sort of counter-balanced by the part where it would appear that Ennis is wanting to be held by Jack indicating that Jack might be the more active one... I'm sure that in relationships like this that even the active one would love to be held from time to time...

[vedrana]

Well I've never really given it much thought but I had always thought that Jack was the passive while Ennis took the more dominant role. From points in the film, it always seemed that Jack would fit the shoes of the more passive in the relationship. Although I think my point would be sort of counter-balanced by the part where it would appear that Ennis is wanting to be held by Jack indicating that Jack might be the more active one... I'm sure that in relationships like this that even the active one would love to be held from time to time...

Lobsel,  aboard!

I agree with you -sure that Ennis needed to be held by Jack, and I even don't see that from time to time. I believe that was regular betwee them. But inspite of being protective and tender with Ennis, Jack still could've been the passive side. I think... 

[tpe]

The prostate gland, to be exact......

Exactly. 

[tpe]

Well, I just found this thread and love it!  I know what are you thinking, but it's just that I asked myself the same question and had no knowledge how the things are going in physical love between 2 men.

 

But few posts in this thread gave me much better picture.... hm...



Ennis as a virgin took an active role in FNIT, and for him I suppose that was the way things are. Jack so willingly surrendered and let Ennis turn him around. For a guy like Ennis, who did it for the first time, that was the only way of making love that he knew of and he was not able to accept another role.

Anyway, thinking how they completely belonged to each other, how they loved each other and how they were devoted to each other, any kind of lovemaking should be possible, but to imagine Ennis in passive role - I just can't! I don't see him on all his four!

I can leave only a tiny possibility that he could take passive role much much later when he became comfortable about it. But at beginning of their physical relationship - Jack was always passive! IMO, of course. 

   Well, I can imagine Ennis in a passive role, although I admit that I am probably in the minority here. 

Incidentally, there was a study done on gay sexual partners long ago.  One interesting thing noted was that in a lot of relationships where there was clearly a "dominant", more outspoken, or older partner, it was this partner who liked to play passive.  I found it quite curious until I began to observe the phenomenon in real life.  I am not saying that it is always the case, but the study nothes that it is more common that people suppose it to be...

[tpe]

Well I've never really given it much thought but I had always thought that Jack was the passive while Ennis took the more dominant role. From points in the film, it always seemed that Jack would fit the shoes of the more passive in the relationship. Although I think my point would be sort of counter-balanced by the part where it would appear that Ennis is wanting to be held by Jack indicating that Jack might be the more active one... I'm sure that in relationships like this that even the active one would love to be held from time to time...

Welcome, Lobsel-Vith!

Your POV is certainly shared by many here, although I too noted the motel scene posture. 

Now, the question I pose to a number of you is this: even if there is a preferred role in the case of either partner, would you consider it possible/probable that they would sometimes switch roles?  This is much more common than people think...  You see such a scene in the recent French film, Les Témoins, which was presented in a way that I actually found quite typical -- when an older partner wants to please the younger and does this as a show of confidence/love.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487273/

 

[myprivatejack]

Welcome, Lobsel-Vith!

Your POV is certainly shared by many here, although I too noted the motel scene posture. 

Now, the question I pose to a number of you is this: even if there is a preferred role in the case of either partner, would you consider it possible/probable that they would sometimes switch roles?  This is much more common than people think...  You see such a scene in the recent French film, Les Témoins, which was presented in a way that I actually found quite typical -- when an older partner wants to please the younger and does this as a show of confidence/love.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487273/

Yes,it can be...As a matter of fact,I was going to talk about the possibility of switching roles as a way for Ennis to show his wish to please Jack,and,as a result of this,his love for him.Even if I said in a former post that in the beginning of their sexual relationships and sometimes,when routine "weighed" a little more,Ennis sense of masculinity wouldn't allow him to be the passive so easily.But I also added that surely in SNIT,bearing in mind the circumstances,was more than possible that Ennis "lowered his guard",and IMO this could be applied to many other moments,why not?.Surely it wasn't Ennis favorite posture,and surely if he did it or not doesn't matter so much,because Jack,in the end,was really the "active and dominant"in their relationship-not necessarily in a physical sense...-.But more surely still,there was his love for Jack,and when things are like that,there're no rules.Just the rule of love.

[vedrana]

  Well, I can imagine Ennis in a passive role, although I admit that I am probably in the minority here. 

Incidentally, there was a study done on gay sexual partners long ago.  One interesting thing noted was that in a lot of relationships where there was clearly a "dominant", more outspoken, or older partner, it was this partner who liked to play passive.   I found it quite curious until I began to observe the phenomenon in real life.  I am not saying that it is always the case, but the study nothes that it is more common that people suppose it to be...

If I understood correctly tpe, you say that dominant partner is surprisingly more likely to be a passive side. If so, isn't it the case with Jack ad Ennis. Jack was the one who initiated their relationship, he was the one who always console Ennis, who was more open to every aspect of their relationship. Also, he is the one who held Ennis in Motel, he is more promiscues... I see him in a way as a more dominant in psychological side.

But as I said, I can leave a tiny possibility for swapping position in later relationship.

[aintfoolin]

I think it was a matter of control with Ennis. I don't know (scratching head) In FNIT he was making sure that he was the one in control flipping Jack over like that. He also did it with Alma .  I have no doubt that some "dominant" men switch roles sexually , but it depends on each indepenent couple In this case  I feel it gives some insight into Ennis's preferred role. To be on top, He is "dominant in all other aspects of he and Jack's relationship because of the way he felt about  himself being with Jack. He made all the rules  outside of sex. I have no reason yet why he would relinquish it during sex. As Loreen said ...Ennis on "all fours"? Sorry I still don't see him doing it. I also feel that Jack preferred it that way too. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my opinion. Thanx

[babytammy7]

Agree, AF, yes sir.  I'm a bottom!Jack's girl all the way. But, like I said before, a good bunch of other brokies think that Ennis was often bottom too. I respect them. Once I almost got kicked because I was WAY too much pretty sure that Ennis was only top and top and top.  Now I see that it could be the other way around too. I still think that Jack was the bottom one, but, like I said to Loreen, we don't know for sure. The SS and the script have not even a line about their sexual preferences beyond FNIT. So I think that in our fantasies (yeeessss, I have fantasies about it....   ) it can be whatever way we think they liked it. That way we all are happy.   


[size=06pt]Me with my top Ennis and bottom Jack.[/size] 

[manhattangirl]

Can I put my two cents in?  I can understand what loreen is saying,   I think Jack top from the bottom. It can be hard to determine in any relationship,  hetero or gay relationships, the dominant and passive roles. It can be so intimate, and can be surprisingly tricky  if just looked at from the surface.   JMO

[Lobsel-Vith]

Welcome, Lobsel-Vith!

Your POV is certainly shared by many here, although I too noted the motel scene posture. 

Now, the question I pose to a number of you is this: even if there is a preferred role in the case of either partner, would you consider it possible/probable that they would sometimes switch roles?  This is much more common than people think...  You see such a scene in the recent French film, Les Témoins, which was presented in a way that I actually found quite typical -- when an older partner wants to please the younger and does this as a show of confidence/love.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487273/

 

I'm sure it's fully possible that they would, I think. I mean the last scene that they were together Jack was taking care of Ennis in a way that would appear dominant... I wouldn't doubt the possibility that they would change roles.

[aintfoolin]

Agree, AF, yes sir.  I'm a bottom!Jack's girl all the way. But, like I said before, a good bunch of other brokies think that Ennis was often bottom too. I respect them. Once I almost got kicked because I was WAY too much pretty sure that Ennis was only top and top and top.  Now I see that it could be the other way around too. I still think that Jack was the bottom one, but, like I said to Loreen, we don't know for sure. The SS and the script have not even a line about their sexual preferences beyond FNIT. So I think that in our fantasies (yeeessss, I have fantasies about it....   ) it can be whatever way we think they liked it. That way we all are happy.   


[size=06pt]Me with my top Ennis and bottom Jack.[/size] 

No one knows for sure , your right Baby Tammy. All opinions/perspectives  should be respected  and I do respect them too.

And yes, we have our fantasies, oooh boy do we, but to me , it's what Ennis felt in his  mind. Some say the mind is the greatest aphrodisiac.  IMO, who and how he  sees himself  or the way he wanted Jack to see him can blend  over into sexuality. Thought of himself as straight, masculine and yes, dominant. But  when it comes to sex, with Jack  it was such a deeply  personal act. Ennis or Jack can be whatever "role" they want to be in their minds.right? "riding more than bulls" can be percieved as Jack being *top* or *bottom* depending on the position.. Then " must be all that time a'horseback" can also make Ennis *top* or *bottom*. Depends on who's doing what.  It really does not matter which is thought of as the *dominant" one or the "passive" one for the mere words "top or "bottom" can belie/ contradict  their meanings on the surface.

The only thing  absolutly clear is that someone was riding someone. That, I will leave to those *spicy* fantasies you spoke of Baby Tammy, those "brilliant couplings" Loreen has posted below her opinions.   I bet they were both good lovers and we all have our preference. I'm an "Ennis is all That" girl and I find him definitly always on top of the mountains....oops ,...mountain.     My take.

[vedrana]

 

I'll think later about the reply ... if any!

Now I just enjoy the thread from the bottom to the top and all the way back! 

 

[tpe]

I'm sure it's fully possible that they would, I think. I mean the last scene that they were together Jack was taking care of Ennis in a way that would appear dominant... I wouldn't doubt the possibility that they would change roles.

I too think it quite possible.  To be sure, I have also known people who will not consider another sexual role than that which they are used to...

[tpe]

Yes,it can be...As a matter of fact,I was going to talk about the possibility of switching roles as a way for Ennis to show his wish to please Jack,and,as a result of this,his love for him.Even if I said in a former post that in the beginning of their sexual relationships and sometimes,when routine "weighed" a little more,Ennis sense of masculinity wouldn't allow him to be the passive so easily.But I also added that surely in SNIT,bearing in mind the circumstances,was more than possible that Ennis "lowered his guard",and IMO this could be applied to many other moments,why not?.Surely it wasn't Ennis favorite posture,and surely if he did it or not doesn't matter so much,because Jack,in the end,was really the "active and dominant"in their relationship-not necessarily in a physical sense...-.But more surely still,there was his love for Jack,and when things are like that,there're no rules.Just the rule of love.

It's quite interesting that to me also, jack seemed to have been -- outwardly -- the active one, and Ennis the passive one.  But sexual roles are certainly a different thing altogether. 

Certainly, there are no hard and fast rules save those that love dictates.

[tpe]

If I understood correctly tpe, you say that dominant partner is surprisingly more likely to be a passive side. If so, isn't it the case with Jack ad Ennis. Jack was the one who initiated their relationship, he was the one who always console Ennis, who was more open to every aspect of their relationship. Also, he is the one who held Ennis in Motel, he is more promiscues... I see him in a way as a more dominant in psychological side.

But as I said, I can leave a tiny possibility for swapping position in later relationship.

Yes.  As I said in response to MPJs post, we can read it this way.  It depends on how we read Jack and Ennis.  To some of us, we see Jack as the softer side of the relationship, while Ennis ias the more rugged, the more masculine one.  But outwardly, we can also see Jack as the more outwardly active one.   

I don't want to make stereotypes, but Ennis fits more the "strong silent type" image, and in this sense, we can also think of him as the dominant side of the relationship.

No hard and fast rules, to be sure...

[tpe]

I think it was a matter of control with Ennis. I don't know (scratching head) In FNIT he was making sure that he was the one in control flipping Jack over like that. He also did it with Alma .  I have no doubt that some "dominant" men switch roles sexually , but it depends on each indepenent couple In this case  I feel it gives some insight into Ennis's preferred role. To be on top, He is "dominant in all other aspects of he and Jack's relationship because of the way he felt about  himself being with Jack. He made all the rules  outside of sex. I have no reason yet why he would relinquish it during sex. As Loreen said ...Ennis on "all fours"? Sorry I still don't see him doing it. I also feel that Jack preferred it that way too. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my opinion. Thanx

Yes, I think almost all of us here would probably agree with Ennis's preferred sexual role.  Your point is good.  Certainly, I think in terms of many things outside of sex, it was Ennis who made the rules. 

Still, my point is that in some of the studies I had mentioned, the people who seemingly made the rules (as is usually the case with an older partner with a younger man) surprisingly didn't necessarily assume the active role, sexually speaking.  I am not saying that the stufy claimed this to be true all the time.  I think the study showed this as a surprising reult -- something that was not expected.

[tpe]

Can I put my two cents in?  I can understand what loreen is saying,   I think Jack top from the bottom. It can be hard to determine in any relationship,  hetero or gay relationships, the dominant and passive roles. It can be so intimate, and can be surprisingly tricky  if just looked at from the surface.   JMO

Yes, I also think this was what loreen implied in her previous post.

Again, in that study I mentioned,  it is all about perception -- on who was considered the "dominant" partner (in this case, the older one who had more control in terms of finances and emotional stability, etc.)

[atalley]

I think the Motel scene gives us some insight into the possibility that Ennis might be willing to bottom.  (I can't believe I'm discussing this).   

[vedrana]

I think the Motel scene gives us some insight into the possibility that Ennis might be willing to bottom.  (I can't believe I'm discussing this).   

 

 

Atalley, you're funny! But I completely understand how you feel!!

[tpe]

I think the Motel scene gives us some insight into the possibility that Ennis might be willing to bottom.  (I can't believe I'm discussing this).   

   And why not? 

I feel the same way.  I know that all this is circumstantial/speculative, but it is something I pretty much associate with what I have observed in reality...

[vedrana]

  And why not? 

I feel the same way.  I know that all this is circumstantial/speculative, but it is something I pretty much associate with what I have observed in reality...

Tpe, this is just it! Not all of us are not associated with it and haven't observed it in reality, but somehow it became a vivid part of out life that we are seriously discusing about!   


 

[tpe]

Tpe, this is just it! Not all of us are not associated with it and haven't observed it in reality, but somehow it became a vivid part of out life that we are seriously discusing about!   
 

I should qualify however that not everything is reducible to our own unique experiences, so to say otherwise is also valid.  In the end, it is probably a case by case basis.  But what I said simply suggests a reason why I thought the way I did. 

[vedrana]

Yes, I also think this was what loreen implied in her previous post.

Again, in that study I mentioned,  it is all about perception -- on who was considered the "dominant" partner (in this case, the older one who had more control in terms of finances and emotional stability, etc.)

Well, I also see here that in your mind Ennis could be the dominant (but also passive) partner, cos it's him who always set the rules between them.... that's tricky I have to admit.  

Either way, there's no right answer, just our personal anticipation of their relationship.

One way or the other, up or down, I am sure as he**, they enjoyed it!  

[tpe]

Well, I also see here that in your mind Ennis could be the dominant (but also passive) partner, cos it's him who always set the rules between them.... that's tricky I have to admit.  

Either way, there's no right answer, just our personal anticipation of their relationship.

One way or the other, up or down, I am sure as he**, they enjoyed it!  

That's why I have always complained that Ennis is just too complicated.   

I think FNIT colors our perception that Ennis was the sexually dominant partner.  I think the scene with Alma reinforces it.  And Proulx's comment in the ss that it was Ennis's favorite way of contraception could be interpreted to support this view.  But people could in real life be more flexible, especially with a partner they are truly comfortable with...  But is this the case with Ennis?  That's the question.

[vedrana]

I should qualify however that not everything is reducible to our own unique experiences, so to say otherwise is also valid.  In the end, it is probably a case by case basis.  But what I said simply suggests a reason why I thought the way I did. 

I think I understood your point of view correctly    , but you also have to bear in mind that some of us have had no previous knowledge about this matter whatsoever. As I once said, for me it was the first time to saw 2 men kissing! Not to mention the rest...