Topic: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers

[francis.shim]

There is no question in my mind regarding Jack's continuing love for Ennis after the love/fight scene. But after a 3rd viewing today, in watching Jack's face as Ennis drives away, I found myself pondering the possibility that having witnessed the depths of Ennis's agony and hearing him say "I can't stand to go on like this", that he might have decided to move on to spare Ennis further anguish. The essence of true love is putting another's needs and well being ahead of our own, and the the thought of putting Ennis through any more of this may have been unbearable for him. Think about how powerful the visual image of Ennis trying to jam the tears back is, and the absolute heartbreak in his voice. He knows by now Ennis isn't going to be able to change. I'm thinkiing he may have been saying ''farewell" in his mind during that shot. This of course makes the shot immediately preceding this, the remembered and treasured embrace from behind even more poignant, as if he knows he will never experience it again. He is letting go of that which most dear to him.
In this way, I don't think Jack ever really "cheats" on Ennis; he may be resigned to moving on and "settling" for a lesser relationship, but his feelings for Ennis will always be "a force of nature".

You are suggesting a "self-sacrifice" of Jack for Ennis... you do realize how that emboldens Jack's death: it becomes an even more powerful testament especially for Ennis that Jack loved him.  It increases Ennis' self-torture and, hence, love comes right around full circle.  Jack loves Ennis loves Jack loves Ennis ...

That is just so beautiful...  :'( :'( :'(

Peace,
Frank

[romeshvr]

So guys...do you really think Jack gave up on Ennis...just the thought of it is making me sick...and sad....

[jimnick]

Not as long as he still had a breath in his body!

Jim

[tpe]

So guys...do you really think Jack gave up on Ennis...just the thought of it is making me sick...and sad....

Gyllenhaal believed it was so (in one of his interviews).  Whether Jack did or not, it is a monumental sadness that permeates the end.  There was no way out...

[proulxfan]

Frank,
It gets worse! Evidently I was still working on that post when you quoted it. I made some additions and revisions. Check it out if you like.

[francis.shim]

Frank,
It gets worse! Evidently I was still working on that post when you quoted it. I made some additions and revisions. Check it out if you like.

I read what you wrote, and it caused me to cry again.

I agree... that Jack moved on, in attempts to spare Ennis' further anguish; I agree that Ennis' agonizing mantra "Why don't you... I am nothing..." was the way out for Jack.  Jack took the lesser road, but to a tragic end.  "Nothing changed... nothing resolved..." was the responding refrain of their trap (Annie Proulx' short story has that wording).

Jack may have tried to move on, but he did not give up on Ennis.  He did not want to.  He could not... and when he tried... even society would not take him back to give up on Ennis.  The story insists that Jack never gave up on Ennis.

That to me was a most cruel and inhumane end to a human being whose only hope was to try and do the right thing for himself and Ennis.

Peace,
Frank

[rane99]

This line of analysis makes possible the following:
Jack: " I wish I knew how to quit you!"
Ennis "Well why don't you Jack? Why don't you just let me be? Your'e the reason I'm like this...nothing...and nowhere...I can't stand to go on like this!"
Jack makes the decision to let go of Ennis in order to lessen Ennis's pain.

Thus a possible ending to our favorite unfinished sentence:
"Jack, I swear... I didn't mean it."
Any thoughts?

oooh. Prouxlfan I like this one..those 2 scenes are the most powerful to me and the sentence works nicely. 

[proulxfan]

Jim


In order to clarify, I agree Jack can't "give up" on Ennis any more than he could give up his need for air. But based on  how excruciating Ennis's agony is, when I see the shot of his face watching Ennis drive away, I just felt that he arrived at a place where he knew what he needed to do. There is a self-less quality in this decision. Ask yourself, would you be able to allow anyone that you loved deeply to suffer that kind of torment if you had it in your power to do anything to lessen it? I see Jack as having far too much generosity of spirit to do otherwise.
Just my take on things...

[cybernaut]

He tried to but couldn't. It is hard to break off with somebody who is like your best buddy who knows you better than others.

Hell, even Jack picked the plucky Mexican boy who remotely has the height, build and look of Ennis. (Guess we know Jack likes blondie-looks)

Never did once that Ennis refused Jack in a way that will shut him out forever. Even Ennis was afraid that Jack wouldn't take the news about him working in August too kindly, biting his nails and fidgeting when he is nervous... then saying he is holding out for him while Jack is sowing wild oats. Sigh!

I guess Jack was looking for a better alternative and that probably led him to his death.

[*Froggy*]

Not as long as he still had a breath in his body!

Jim

That's my Jim...I'm 100% with you...a love like theirs...It's a force of nature!

[chameau]

Not as long as he still had a breath in his body!

Jim

That's my Jim...I'm 100% with you...a love like theirs...It's a force of nature!

DITTO!

This is my Jim
This is my froggy

Mouah 

[jimnick]

 

[chameau]

You bet!

[*Froggy*]

You bet!!!

[romeshvr]

as i was walking back from seeing the movie for the 10th time, a thought came to my mind, if camilla didn't give up on charles after all those years why we are quick to assume jack would give up on ennis.... interesting thought...something to think about...

on another note...

jack finally got his wish/desire... he is living with ennis togather... okay maybe not physically...but in sprit or through his shirt....in one form or another he is with ennis....

[chameau]

a thought came to my mind, if camilla didn't give up on charles after all those years why we are quick to assume jack would give up on ennis.... interesting

Mah Gawd!  Yes! 

on another note...

jack finally got his wish/desire... he is living with ennis togather... okay maybe not physically...but in sprit or through his shirt....in one form or another he is with ennis....

Very, very nice posting.

Thanks for sharing

Hugs,

Pierre

[romeshvr]

Thanks Pierre... This is the only way I can be satisfied with the ending...

[jakeofrome]

I may have  been mentioned elsewhere, but if you look at Jack's face when Randall suggest they spend some weekend in the cabin together, you can read that his love for Ennis hasn't changed.
As for the end, as mentioned in the "dreams" topic, I think the best is still in the short story: Jack starting to appear in Ennis' dreams is the only bit of relief I find and "I swear" I keep it tight, dunno if i would be able to read the story again without that bit.

[*Froggy*]

I may have  been mentioned elsewhere, but if you look at Jack's face when Randall suggest they spend some weekend in the cabin together, you can read that his love for Ennis hasn't changed.
As for the end, as mentioned in the "dreams" topic, I think the best is still in the short story: Jack starting to appear in Ennis' dreams is the only bit of relief I find and "I swear" I keep it tight, dunno if i would be able to read the story again without that bit.

Yes, Jack loved Ennis too much!

as i was walking back from seeing the movie for the 10th time, a thought came to my mind, if Camilla didn't give up on Charles after all those years why we are quick to assume jack would give up on Ennis.... interesting thought...something to think about...

Scary parallel...

[brian2006]

i still think that Jack sure will never ever give up on Ennis!

the love between them is so strong that both of them couldn't lose each other...

as somebody said, from he moment Jack passed away, his spirit is with Ennis forever, but juz not the way he want....the ending is so sad...

[romeshvr]

So guys...do you really think Jack gave up on Ennis...just the thought of it is making me sick...and sad....

Gyllenhaal believed it was so (in one of his interviews).  Whether Jack did or not, it is a monumental sadness that permeates the end.  There was no way out...

Is that what Jake Gyllenhaal said.  Yikes.  That is not good.  Now I'm even more sadder than before. :'(

[tpe]

So guys...do you really think Jack gave up on Ennis...just the thought of it is making me sick...and sad....

Gyllenhaal believed it was so (in one of his interviews).  Whether Jack did or not, it is a monumental sadness that permeates the end.  There was no way out...

Is that what Jake Gyllenhaal said.  Yikes.  That is not good.  Now I'm even more sadder than before. :'(

Here is the excerpt from the first article under the 'Gyllenhaal Profile' thread.  It contains Gyllenhaal's comment about Jack finally giving up (in his mind, of course).


On the other hand Gyllenhaal also feels, that maybe because of the differences in the two characters, Ledger gets to portray someone who stays more faithful to the relationship than Gyllenhaal does.

"In some ways I think maybe Ennis' love is stronger because there is a faithfulness to that and I think you see it happen," he admits. "I think Jack eventually says ‘I'm going to have to go on with my life, I'm going to have to find somebody else and find intimacy with him.’ He does, at the end his Dad says he brought some other guy here and they were going to want to work on a farm."



As I said in my comments in the 'Gyllenhaal Profile' thread, I don't believe that Jack actually brought the Texas Rancher to his parents' place.  Also, this is Gyllenhaal's interpretation.  And although I have great respect for his thoughts on this subject, I think there is still some space between what we know and what we believe... 

[proulxfan]

Yeah, it's just one of many possible interpretations. And even with what I said earlier, I still think Jack would have come back quicker than lightning if Ennis had said the word that he was ready to make a go of it. ...sigh
And let's give ol' Jack some credit here. Did y'all really want him to to spend his remaining days alone except for fishing trips?? :'( :'(

[Cowboy Cody]

Yeah, it's just one of many possible interpretations. And even with what I said earlier, I still think Jack would have come back quicker than lightning if Ennis had said the word that he was ready to make a go of it. ...sigh
And let's give ol' Jack some credit here. Did y'all really want him to to spend his remaining days alone except for fishing trips?? :'( :'(

Hell no he didn't want to be alone. He just wanted someone to love him back as much as he was willing to give up, which was everything, make no mistake about that. Jack wanted a new life, one with a man to love and be loved in return. It's one thing to carry on as they did, it's much different to wake up next to someone every morning. The saddest times for me have always been after Bubba and I have to go our separate ways during the week. I can still smell him on my pillows. I've cried myself to sleep many a night hugging that damn pillow.

[tpe]

I've cried myself to sleep many a night hugging that damn pillow.

So sweet.

[rane99]

I think Jack was in the process of giving up on Ennis.  It got to the point where he wished he could quit him.  But he couldn't. 

[chameau]

"I wish how to quit you"

Then, they eventually fell in each other arms, Jack comforting a devastated Ennis.

No he coudn't

Now I cry  :'(

[Cowboy Cody]

Hey Chameau buddy, you want my shoulder? :'( I make it a rule, friends don't cry alone in my presence.

[chameau]

Hey Chameau buddy, you want my shoulder? :'( I make it a rule, friends don't cry alone in my presence.

No need Cowboy,

This is where I stand, Jack never gave up on Ennis.

Thanks for the shoulder BTW.

[camom]

Hey Chameau buddy, you want my shoulder? :'( I make it a rule, friends don't cry alone in my presence.

This is where I stand, Jack never gave up on Ennis.

I have to believe that.  The story is unbearable otherwise.

 :'(

camom