Author Topic: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers  (Read 311137 times)

Offline Patriot1

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #180 on: Apr 27, 2006, 03:31 AM »
We also know that the next meeting they'd talked about was August - even though Ennis had pretty much already said that wasn't going to happen, I think he sent the card to Jack BEFORE then, just to confirm that November was still looking like his next chance to get away (I can't remember the exact wording on the card - maybe someone can help here)

Quote
Jack. How about november 7 for you. I can meet you at pine creek  Ennis Del Mar

That then comes back marked "deceased" ( :'( ) and Ennis calls Lureen. There's no way that he would have delayed that phone call - and once she tells him that Jack's parents have his ashes but that Jack wanted them scattered on Brokeback, there's no reason to assume that he would have delayed his visit up there for any significant period of time. Maybe a week or two weeks till he composed himself enough, but certainly not months.

Agreed NoReins.  After reading the post card he walked directly across the street and called Lureen in the phone booth that was there.  He was wearing the same shirt when he was on the phone as when he picked up the mail.  This is indication it was the same time.

However, I do think he went up to the Twist ranch on or slightly after November 7th. This was the time he had off for a week and it wasn't too long after he had gotten the post card.

The short story does not indicate how long of a period of time went by before Ennis drove up there but I think you can be sure he went there the first day he could get off from work.



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Offline NoReins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #181 on: Apr 27, 2006, 05:03 AM »
However, I do think he went up to the Twist ranch on or slightly after November 7th. This was the time he had off for a week and it wasn't too long after he had gotten the post card.

Yeah, that makes sense. If he couldn't get any other time off to be with Jack, then he wouldn't have got time off to go and visit Jack's parents. Good shout, Patriot1.

Thanks for providing the words on the postcard, btw.
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Offline TwoSkins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #182 on: Apr 27, 2006, 07:47 AM »
Yes - NoRegns and Patriot1 - everything above makes perfect sence to the timing - the Ennis trip to Jack's parents would have been in November, I think of the clothing. Ennis had on a heavy work jacket when he called Laureen and when he arrive in Lightning Flat..

PS: Jack never gave up on Ennis, I am now convinced! Someone mentioned here or another topic that the "Jack I Swear" scene was Ennis's wedding vow to Jack. This reveal could not have made this journey any more complete. Although Jack may have died having been identified as a "threat" from evil cowards within his society...one thing is for certain when Jack witnessed this scene from his new spiritual/resting  place, I am sure his soul warmed with closure.
His eyes definately filled with tears, as did Ennis, and he probable muttered the words it's alright, it's alright tenderly in the wind as it blew against Ennis's trailer. :'(

I am humbled to have been able to connect to this story again and again - still emotional!!!

Any Feelings?
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Offline NoReins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #183 on: Apr 27, 2006, 08:04 AM »
His eyes definately filled with tears, as did Ennis, and he probable muttered the words it's alright, it's alright tenderly in the wind as it blew against Ennis's trailer. :'(

I am humbled to have been able to connect to this story again and again - still emotional!!!

Any Feelings?


Just the one feeling.....

:'( :'( :'( :'(

I'm proud to be a complete atheist, but I truly love the idea that Jack is watching Ennis and answering him in some way. Thank you, TwoSkins, for that wonderful idea.
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Offline TJ

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #184 on: Apr 27, 2006, 01:34 PM »
Here is a pic of the exact wording on the "Movie prop" postcard which came back stamped "DECEASED." Why the prop(erties) people had it stamped over the message would not have been the way that a US Post Office Postmaster or Postal Employee would have stamped it.



Notice, Ennis wrote:

  Jack,
How about november 7
for you. I can meet
you at pine creek.
          Ennis Del Mar

   
« Last Edit: Apr 28, 2006, 08:54 AM by TJ »
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline coguaro

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #185 on: Apr 27, 2006, 01:35 PM »
ah... that a knife in my heart!!!
I swear... I will never mistake again...

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #186 on: Apr 27, 2006, 02:06 PM »
OT: Cool. November 7. That's my birthday.

Offline NoReins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #187 on: Apr 27, 2006, 02:07 PM »
OT: Cool. November 7. That's my birthday.

Also OT - mine too, Katie :)
He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

Charles Roven, accepting Heath's BAFTA.

This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

Kim Ledger, accepting Heath's Oscar.

Offline TJ

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #188 on: Apr 27, 2006, 03:18 PM »
OT: Cool. November 7. That's my birthday.

Also OT - mine too, Katie :)

Mine is Nov. 4.
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline Brokeback_Ca

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #189 on: Apr 28, 2006, 02:08 AM »




 
   
   
 That pic hurts bad.  Thanks, though.  Props to the Scorpios.
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Offline TJ

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #190 on: Apr 28, 2006, 09:05 AM »
Here's what Annie Proulx wrote in BbM about Ennis Del Mar's vow or "covenanted oath" to Jack Twist:

Quote
"Jack, I swear -- " he said, though Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind.

In the Bible times, men swore oaths to each other and sometimes, one person swore the oath (making a promise) and the other one just accepted it without making any promise whatsoever.

I don't think that Jack Twist gave up on loving Ennis Del Mar; but, I just feel that in what I read in the orignal short story, he gave up chasing after Ennis because of the short lease Ennis kept Jack on. IMO, Jack got tired of Ennis setting all of the rules as to when they got together and where they would meet.
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #191 on: Apr 28, 2006, 09:25 AM »
Here's what Annie Proulx wrote in BbM about Ennis Del Mar's vow or "covenanted oath" to Jack Twist:

Quote
"Jack, I swear -- " he said, though Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind.

In the Bible times, men swore oaths to each other and sometimes, one person swore the oath (making a promise) and the other one just accepted it without making any promise whatsoever.

I don't think that Jack Twist gave up on loving Ennis Del Mar; but, I just feel that in what I read in the orignal short story, he gave up chasing after Ennis because of the short lease Ennis kept Jack on. IMO, Jack got tired of Ennis setting all of the rules as to when they got together and where they would meet.

There is indeed something that can be gleaned from the phrase 'though Jack had never asked him to swear anything ' with respect to whether Jack gave up on Ennis.

Although Jack was always full of dreams and expectations about a shared life with Ennis, he never forced himself on Ennis.

It was always an open-ended thing for him.  He did not need a vow from Ennis.  He knew that they loved each other, no matter what. 

This is why I believe that Jack never gave up in his heart.  He knew what he had -- without a promise, without a contract, without even a mention of that most wonderful of all phrases: 'I love you'.


Offline NoReins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #192 on: Apr 28, 2006, 10:05 AM »
This is why I believe that Jack never gave up in his heart.  He knew what he had -- without a promise, without a contract, without even a mention of that most wonderful of all phrases: 'I love you'.

You put that so beautifully, tpe :'(

I have to believe that Jack knew what he had, despite the fact that Ennis never said anything about how he felt. Some things - sleeping with his arm round Jack on their last night together and even the desperate clutch of Jack's shoulder when he collapses at the lakeside - say more than words.
He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

Charles Roven, accepting Heath's BAFTA.

This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

Kim Ledger, accepting Heath's Oscar.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #193 on: Apr 28, 2006, 10:13 AM »
Some things - sleeping with his arm round Jack on their last night together...

NoReins, I am a bit taken aback that you mentioned this.

I have one friend who has had a rich and meaningful life of love.  When I asked him if he thought Jack gave up on Ennis, he pointed to this very scene that you mentioned.  He told me [I paraphrase]: 'Look at them both.  They are comfortable in their love.   I've known how it is to be that way.  When I saw that scene, I knew that even if they were parted, they will always be together one way or the other.'

Would you be surprised if I tell you that this friend of mine considered this scene the most beautiful scene in the entire movie?



Offline NoReins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #194 on: Apr 28, 2006, 11:36 AM »
Would you be surprised if I tell you that this friend of mine considered this scene the most beautiful scene in the entire movie?

I wouldn't be surprised at all - I think your friend is right.

I keep saying it, but I'm going to repeat it: where Jack used words to express his feelings, Ennis's reaction was nearly always physical. It happens in the motel room - Jack says "redlined it all the way", Ennis responds by stroking his arm - and it happens in this scene too - Jack says "sometimes I miss you so much..." and Ennis responds by sleeping with his arm round Jack. Even if they didn't actually make love that night (although everything points to this being unlikely), Ennis shows how much he loves Jack by holding him through the night.


He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

Charles Roven, accepting Heath's BAFTA.

This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

Kim Ledger, accepting Heath's Oscar.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #195 on: Apr 28, 2006, 11:44 AM »
How can anyone with a heart and who has ever been in love think of Jack ever giving up on Ennis when you see Jack's face and hear him say 'Ennis...Ennis' right before they fall into an embrace in that last meeting?

There is an urgency in that face and the tone of voice that speaks of a very deep need. 

When he saw how much Ennis was hurt by what he said, it is clear that Jack broke his own heart.

« Last Edit: Apr 28, 2006, 12:18 PM by tpe »

Offline TwoSkins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #196 on: Apr 28, 2006, 12:16 PM »
This thread is like WHOA!!! - Holy Canoly Batman! keep talking TPE and NoReins!

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Offline NoReins

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #197 on: Apr 28, 2006, 01:47 PM »
Right again, tpe.

There's a discussion somewhere about bookends in the film and I think there's another example here. When Ennis collapses at the lakeside, Jack goes to him and holds him, whispering "I'm sorry, it's alright" - just like he did in the second tent scene when Ennis was vulnerable (give or take the argument over whether "I'm sorry" is ever actually said in that scene) All those years earlier on Brokeback he reassured Ennis that everything would be ok, that he was there for him, perhaps already knowing that he was in love with Ennis - and despite all the accusations and bitter words, when Ennis needs him, Jack is there again reassuring Ennis that he still loves him.

(TwoSkins - I keep thinking I've got nothing else to add, then tpe gets me thinking again....)
He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

Charles Roven, accepting Heath's BAFTA.

This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

Kim Ledger, accepting Heath's Oscar.

Offline TJ

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #198 on: Apr 28, 2006, 02:11 PM »
Here is a tangental comment in regard to what is in the book (with a thought about what happened at an earlier time in the movie). The last time that Ennis and Jack were together was in the trailhead parking lot. Well, that was a public place. Ennis was very careful in showing his emotions in a public place where other might see him. In the book, the only time Jack was touched by Ennis, in a public place, was when they first saw each other after 4 years and hugged and kissed on the upstairs landing at Ennis' Riverton apartment. When Jack had driven all the way up to Wyoming (in the movie) after Ennis got divorced, Ennis seemed to be concerned that a person driving by on the road might see what was going on with two guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, back to the book, in the trailhead parking lot, it was not written that Jack even held Ennis after Ennis had what we would call a "nervous breakdown." Before Jack could even touch Ennis when Jack thought he was either having a heart attactk or a fit of rage, Ennis straightened up quickly and acted as though he had not got angry in the first place.

I would say that Ennis definitely needed a hug from Jack at that time but, Ennis would have considered it to be the wrong time and the wrong place. 
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #199 on: Apr 28, 2006, 02:23 PM »
There's a discussion somewhere about bookends in the film and I think there's another example here. When Ennis collapses at the lakeside, Jack goes to him and holds him, whispering "I'm sorry, it's alright" - just like he did in the second tent scene when Ennis was vulnerable (give or take the argument over whether "I'm sorry" is ever actually said in that scene)

This is partly OOT, but yes, and I enjoyed the bookends very much.  There are a few discussions in the internet regarding the classical structure and cyclic episodes in the movie.  The movie in my eyes is all beautiful balance and proportion.  The bookends are a manifestation of this sense of balance.  It is perhaps one of the most architecturally pleasing movies I have seen with respect to this feature.

Quote
All those years earlier on Brokeback he reassured Ennis that everything would be ok, that he was there for him, perhaps already knowing that he was in love with Ennis - and despite all the accusations and bitter words, when Ennis needs him, Jack is there again reassuring Ennis that he still loves him.

In connection with the main topic and this foray into architecture, I should note that Jack's intended decision to move on and share a life with someone else adds deeply to the note of tragedy that moves us so much about this film.  Your above observation is essential, I think, in appreciating how significant this was, because it is Jack -- the one who constantly reassures Ennis -- who in the end can no longer reassure himself that their love can ever be brought to the perfection that he had always dreamed.

But what makes this more poigniant is that this decision to move on in no way destroys the dream.  The dream of Jack remains a dream -- unfinished and unfulfilled.  It is a dream that Jack inevitably passes on to Ennis, by way of his own death.  And this is probably the most heartrending bookend of them all.  For the dream of love derives new life in Ennis after Jack himself had turned to ashes. 

I guess what I am trying to say is that Jack's decision to 'move on' becomes the vehicle by which, in the end, Ennis comes to full realization of their love.  Moving on did not mean an end to love.  This is obvious to anyone who has ever gone through the death of a loved one.  For Jack, it meant resignation and a certain grace (even in bitterness!) to see that their love after all went beyond physical proximity and sex.  That is obvious in the final recollection of that dozy embrace.  He had come to realize that their love would endure because it remains a dream that is pristine -- untouched by the viscitudes of thier pained and troubled lives.

We know that that dream of love is pristine and pure: because it lived on even after Jack's death -- in that most cherished core that is Ennis himself.

Forgive this meditation, for this is what I write.  Jack will always love Ennis even if the shared life he craved for will only remain a dream.  This dream of love was Jack's hope, a hope cherished without reference to mundane realities. 

And by virtue of this hope, I say that Jack never gave up.





« Last Edit: Apr 28, 2006, 02:35 PM by tpe »

Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #200 on: Apr 28, 2006, 09:22 PM »
His eyes definately filled with tears, as did Ennis, and he probable muttered the words it's alright, it's alright tenderly in the wind as it blew against Ennis's trailer. :'(


Any Feelings?


That is a beautiful thought! And I was doing so good with the PBS today too.  :'(
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

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Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #201 on: Apr 28, 2006, 09:25 PM »
TPE and No Reins- wonderful posts!
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #202 on: Apr 28, 2006, 09:32 PM »
There's a discussion somewhere about bookends in the film and I think there's another example here. When Ennis collapses at the lakeside, Jack goes to him and holds him, whispering "I'm sorry, it's alright" - just like he did in the second tent scene when Ennis was vulnerable (give or take the argument over whether "I'm sorry" is ever actually said in that scene)

This is partly OOT, but yes, and I enjoyed the bookends very much.  There are a few discussions in the internet regarding the classical structure and cyclic episodes in the movie.  The movie in my eyes is all beautiful balance and proportion.  The bookends are a manifestation of this sense of balance.  It is perhaps one of the most architecturally pleasing movies I have seen with respect to this feature.

Quote
All those years earlier on Brokeback he reassured Ennis that everything would be ok, that he was there for him, perhaps already knowing that he was in love with Ennis - and despite all the accusations and bitter words, when Ennis needs him, Jack is there again reassuring Ennis that he still loves him.

In connection with the main topic and this foray into architecture, I should note that Jack's intended decision to move on and share a life with someone else adds deeply to the note of tragedy that moves us so much about this film.  Your above observation is essential, I think, in appreciating how significant this was, because it is Jack -- the one who constantly reassures Ennis -- who in the end can no longer reassure himself that their love can ever be brought to the perfection that he had always dreamed.

But what makes this more poigniant is that this decision to move on in no way destroys the dream.  The dream of Jack remains a dream -- unfinished and unfulfilled.  It is a dream that Jack inevitably passes on to Ennis, by way of his own death.  And this is probably the most heartrending bookend of them all.  For the dream of love derives new life in Ennis after Jack himself had turned to ashes. 

I guess what I am trying to say is that Jack's decision to 'move on' becomes the vehicle by which, in the end, Ennis comes to full realization of their love.  Moving on did not mean an end to love.  This is obvious to anyone who has ever gone through the death of a loved one.  For Jack, it meant resignation and a certain grace (even in bitterness!) to see that their love after all went beyond physical proximity and sex.  That is obvious in the final recollection of that dozy embrace.  He had come to realize that their love would endure because it remains a dream that is pristine -- untouched by the viscitudes of thier pained and troubled lives.

We know that that dream of love is pristine and pure: because it lived on even after Jack's death -- in that most cherished core that is Ennis himself.

Forgive this meditation, for this is what I write.  Jack will always love Ennis even if the shared life he craved for will only remain a dream.  This dream of love was Jack's hope, a hope cherished without reference to mundane realities. 

And by virtue of this hope, I say that Jack never gave up.








so beautiful TPE why you are so decided to make me cry everytime i read your post!!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #203 on: Apr 29, 2006, 12:02 AM »
so beautiful TPE why you are so decided to make me cry everytime i read your post!!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Carlos_H82, it's because I cry with you too.

Thank you.


Offline FlwrChild

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #204 on: Apr 29, 2006, 12:58 AM »
How can anyone with a heart and who has ever been in love think of Jack ever giving up on Ennis when you see Jack's face and hear him say 'Ennis...Ennis' right before they fall into an embrace in that last meeting?

There is an urgency in that face and the tone of voice that speaks of a very deep need. 

When he saw how much Ennis was hurt by what he said, it is clear that Jack broke his own heart.



That's one

His eyes definately filled with tears, as did Ennis, and he probable muttered the words it's alright, it's alright tenderly in the wind as it blew against Ennis's trailer. :'(


Any Feelings?


That is a beautiful thought! And I was doing so good with the PBS today too.  :'(

That's two



 

And by virtue of this hope, I say that Jack never gave up.

And three : tpe, et al - those posts are beautiful - and exactly the way I feel about Jack and his love for Ennis. Thanks for sharing and for expressing it so well!






Quote


so beautiful TPE why you are so decided to make me cry everytime i read your post!!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Quote
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Offline Frankito

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #205 on: May 03, 2006, 12:13 AM »
I believe he did, he is just like me. (read my post under LOVE IS A FORCE OF NATURE), one can only take so much after trying so hard to make a future with your loved one.  Distance be damned! Your life must go on, you know you've tried but you didn't succeed so it makes it easier knowing that if it didn't work, it wasn't  because you didn't try.  That is the tragedy of Ennis. Jack lived his life as he pleased and I love and respect him and any man or woman that does that because that is how I am in my love life.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #206 on: May 03, 2006, 06:33 AM »
I believe he did, he is just like me. (read my post under LOVE IS A FORCE OF NATURE), one can only take so much after trying so hard to make a future with your loved one.  Distance be damned! Your life must go on, you know you've tried but you didn't succeed so it makes it easier knowing that if it didn't work, it wasn't  because you didn't try.  That is the tragedy of Ennis. Jack lived his life as he pleased and I love and respect him and any man or woman that does that because that is how I am in my love life.

You have Jake Gyllenhaal himself on your side, Frankito.  That is as good as in any other company in the republic of opinions.

I do believe something died inside of Jack in that final meeting.  But I think it was hope that died, and certainly not love.  Perhaps you feel the same way here...




 

Offline chameau

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #207 on: May 03, 2006, 05:00 PM »
Quote
I do believe something died inside of Jack in that final meeting.  But I think it was hope that died, and certainly not love.  Perhaps you feel the same way here...

Well said Tpe!  I agree with you
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #208 on: May 03, 2006, 05:24 PM »
Quote
I do believe something died inside of Jack in that final meeting.  But I think it was hope that died, and certainly not love.  Perhaps you feel the same way here...

Well said Tpe!  I agree with you

I like that too...thankx tpe x
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If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
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Offline karen1129

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Re: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers
« Reply #209 on: May 03, 2006, 07:51 PM »
I have to say the first 5 times I saw this movie, I felt that Jack was ready to quit Ennis.
I really don't feel that way now.  I do believe Jack had lost hope, probably before their
last meeting.  It just all came to a head during that last meeting.  Probably shocked the shit
out of Ennis to, because Jack had never stood up to him in that way.
I feel that Jack would have been back though.  Don't think he could have stopped himself.
It was almost like the light had gone out in Jack's . 

This scene is still so sad for me, that I haven't been able to get past it since I bought the DVD.
I just think about the scene at work and tear up !!
The scene with Ennis at Jack's parents house .....  OMG.....