Author Topic: Flashback scene - spoiler (Read 117456 times)

NoReins · « **Reply #150 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 07:54 AM »

Thanks for posting that link jackster - a truly beautiful video.

tizi17 - I'm not sure if he kisses his hand so much as just leans his chin down onto Ennis's hand. Whatever, it's still very touching and sweet

tpe · « **Reply #151 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 09:00 AM »

Thanks Jackster. It has to be in slow motion, as the music seems to reverberate with the scene when viewed in this way. The echo effects in "Spiritual" can be quite haunting. After a while, it becomes almost hypnotic.

Audrey twist · « **Reply #152 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 04:30 PM »

I cry for all the time!this scene is very upset :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

jackster · « **Reply #153 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 07:13 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 27, 2006, 09:00 AM

Thanks Jackster. It has to be in slow motion, as the music seems to reverberate with the scene when viewed in this way. The echo effects in "Spiritual" can be quite haunting. After a while, it becomes almost hypnotic.

Hypnotic, exactly. The actual piece, by Charlie Hayden and Pat Metheny, is actually almost twice as long (8 mins) as shown in the YouTube video. I downloaded the iTune album and now can hardly stop listening to it. Like Annie said, when I hear it now, in the car or wherever, it brings this picture of E&J right to me, and I think it always will. It sure did magic for Annie in bringing the right words to her. It is also amazing how this music that she listened to so many years ago while writing is so hauntingly similar to Gustavo Santaolalla's piece composed for the same emotional waterfall years later.

jackster

lamusica · « **Reply #154 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 04:44 PM »

I know I'm about to be crucified here, but I have a bit of a different take on the dozy embrace scene. I know Annie says Ennis came to Jack from behind because he didn't want to realize he was holding a man. She's the boss, of course, and I'm sure that's how she saw it when she wrote it. However, I think Ang and our boys saw it differently. If you look at the stills, you see that Ennis does not shut his eyes or look away. He turns his head towards Jack and looks at him ( albeit from the side). He is fully cognizant of whom he is holding. When I first saw the movie, I expected him to lean in more and kiss Jack on the neck, or nuzzle his ear or hair. I am convinced Ennis was well aware that it was Jack he held, and that's just where he wanted to be at that time. Perhaps it was the very first time he was overtly affectionate with Jack without it leading to sex -- don't know, but it was deliberate, in my most humble opinion.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #155 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 04:53 PM »

Yes I totally agree with you. They are both completely honest without saying a word.

carbyville · « **Reply #156 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 05:08 PM »

Quote from: lamusica on Nov 28, 2006, 04:44 PM

I know I'm about to be crucified here, but I have a bit of a different take on the dozy embrace scene. I know Annie says Ennis came to Jack from behind because he didn't want to realize he was holding a man. She's the boss, of course, and I'm sure that's how she saw it when she wrote it. However, I think Ang and our boys saw it differently. If you look at the stills, you see that Ennis does not shut his eyes or look away. He turns his head towards Jack and looks at him ( albeit from the side). He is fully cognizant of whom he is holding. When I first saw the movie, I expected him to lean in more and kiss Jack on the neck, or nuzzle his ear or hair. I am convinced Ennis was well aware that it was Jack he held, and that's just where he wanted to be at that time. Perhaps it was the very first time he was overtly affectionate with Jack without it leading to sex -- don't know, but it was deliberate, in my most humble opinion.

I totally agree.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #157 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 10:00 PM »

Great post Lamusica.

I always interpreted that part from the SS as Jack's POV- that that was his interpretation/feeling about it not necesarily how AP wanted us to see it. It was a memory he clung to and the fact that he knew then that Ennis had trouble coming to terms with the fact that it is a man he loves and when he was remembering "he thought they'd never got much farther than that." So in a way the dozy embrace is bittersweet- it was a moment of pure love and tenderness, initiated by Ennis, yet 20 years later they haven't really progressed.

welshwitch · « **Reply #158 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 06:59 AM »

It also seems to me in th ehighest degree unlikely that Ennis would ever have come up to Jack and faced him and held him - too much like suggesting a kiss. The approach and holding from behind are quite differnt and much more accpetable to him,IMO.

tpe · « **Reply #159 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 08:12 AM »

Quote from: jackster on Nov 27, 2006, 07:13 PM

Hypnotic, exactly. The actual piece, by Charlie Hayden and Pat Metheny, is actually almost twice as long (8 mins) as shown in the YouTube video. I downloaded the iTune album and now can hardly stop listening to it. Like Annie said, when I hear it now, in the car or wherever, it brings this picture of E&J right to me, and I think it always will. It sure did magic for Annie in bringing the right words to her. It is also amazing how this music that she listened to so many years ago while writing is so hauntingly similar to Gustavo Santaolalla's piece composed for the same emotional waterfall years later.

jackster

Gustavo Santaolalla's music for this scene is brutally moving. It starts with the high strings and goes down to the lower cello range. Very beautiful. It is hard to watch it and remain indifferent.

jackster · « **Reply #160 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 01:37 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Oct 25, 2006, 08:48 AM

The way the movie embedded it within the climactic point of the last meeting was a great realization of Proulx's story. This is one of Ang Lee's master strokes. It gains in power and depth. As I have said before, it is (for me) the heart and soul of the entire movie/story.

I agree completely. Yes, the scene pull (yanks) at your heart as Ennis walks and then rides away, - BUT, to me what it shows most powerfully is that, in this big wide world of many impossiblities, Ennis and Jack DID actually find each other, and to some degree and at some point each realized that they had found their life's love. How many people go through life and are never able to achieve even this one single moment of immense emotional satisfaction and connection. The emotional pain is a risk with every deep relationship in an uncontrollable world.

jackster

Short Leash · « **Reply #161 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 09:34 PM »

I know there's no proof but, I believe the dozy embrace scene was in actuality the last night they were together on BBM. Ennis said goodbye, went up to the sheep to sleep and when he woke up the next day it had snowed, and we see Ennis come put of the pup tent running back and forth.

greenfrog · « **Reply #162 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 09:36 PM »

Quote from: Short Leash on Nov 29, 2006, 09:34 PM

I know there's no proof but, I believe the dozy embrace scene was in actuality the last night they were together on BBM. Ennis said goodbye, went up to the sheep to sleep and when he woke up the next day it had snowed, and we see Ennis come put of the pup tent running back and forth.

Oh boy, here come the waterworks again :\'( :\'( :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #163 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 08:35 AM »

Quote from: jackster on Nov 29, 2006, 01:37 PM

I agree completely. Yes, the scene pull (yanks) at your heart as Ennis walks and then rides away, - BUT, to me what it shows most powerfully is that, in this big wide world of many impossiblities, Ennis and Jack DID actually find each other, and to some degree and at some point each realized that they had found their life's love. How many people go through life and are never able to achieve even this one single moment of immense emotional satisfaction and connection. The emotional pain is a risk with every deep relationship in an uncontrollable world.

jackster

That is indeed the crux of it all: that it DID happen. More importantly, they LET it happen. For all the tragedy of the story, the flashback scene reminds us that it was only with each other that they found peace and contentment.

tpe · « **Reply #164 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 08:46 AM »

Quote from: Short Leash on Nov 29, 2006, 09:34 PM

I know there's no proof but, I believe the dozy embrace scene was in actuality the last night they were together on BBM. Ennis said goodbye, went up to the sheep to sleep and when he woke up the next day it had snowed, and we see Ennis come put of the pup tent running back and forth.

There is no proof, but it is a comforting thought to associate this scene with their last night on the Mountain in 63.

tpe · « **Reply #165 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:03 PM »

Twisted · « **Reply #166 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:24 PM »

Beautiful picture, Thomas!

carbyville · « **Reply #167 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:27 PM »

Very beautiful, yes. That could be worth getting enlarged and matted to hang on a wall.

tpe · « **Reply #168 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:34 PM »

It is a wood engraving, no? I would love to own an original...

carbyville · « **Reply #169 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:43 PM »

It kind of reminds me of rorschach, too. I wonder how many non-brokies can look at that and instantly see the dozy embrace.

tizi17 · « **Reply #170 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:45 PM »

Quote from: carbyville on Jan 12, 2007, 02:43 PM

It kind of reminds me of rorschach, too. I wonder how many non-brokies can look at that and instantly see the dozy embrace.

"unfortunately" i do...
not because i don't like to see it... just because.. i see them everywhere...
tizi

tpe · « **Reply #171 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:57 PM »

Quote from: carbyville on Jan 12, 2007, 02:43 PM

It kind of reminds me of rorschach, too. I wonder how many non-brokies can look at that and instantly see the dozy embrace.

What an interesting comment, carbyville. This is so true! It is almost a coded image, no? But to us, it IS the Dozy Embrace...

tpe · « **Reply #172 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 02:58 PM »

Quote from: tizi17 on Jan 12, 2007, 02:45 PM

"unfortunately" i do...
not because i don't like to see it... just because.. i see them everywhere...
tizi

tizi, in that, you are beyond helping.

The spirit of the entire reunion scene is captured beautifully in that pic...

tizi17 · « **Reply #173 on:** Jan 12, 2007, 05:14 PM »

yep, this is why i posted - was joking before..

i do see it very well.. and it has it's spell on me.

tizi

jacks_key · « **Reply #174 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 01:36 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Jul 16, 2006, 11:24 AM

Patriot1, you make some very valid points there, and I can see why a lot of people believe that Jack did quit Ennis, but, as I said above, I'm in the other camp and always will be. My belief stems in the most part from the line "I wish I knew how to quit you"....not "I'm quitting you" but "I wish I knew..." or to put it another way "I can't quit you because I don't know how". Yes, they've said a lot of hurtful things in that scene....and yes, I think maybe Jack thinks it would be better all round if he could go after that sweet life with someone else....but at the end of the day, it wouldn't be a sweet life with anyone else because most of what would make it so sweet would be being with Ennis.

Well said - I completely agree 100%!

jacks_key · « **Reply #175 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 02:03 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Oct 25, 2006, 04:10 PM

It is all too brief...

It is beautiful, but because of the context of the last meeting, the beauty is married to sadness. It is Jack's valediction. This is how he liked to be remembered: safe in the arms of his beloved.

:\'( :\'( :\'(

JT · « **Reply #176 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 09:26 PM »

Quote from: Short Leash on Nov 29, 2006, 09:34 PM

I know there's no proof but, I believe the dozy embrace scene was in actuality the last night they were together on BBM. Ennis said goodbye, went up to the sheep to sleep and when he woke up the next day it had snowed, and we see Ennis come put of the pup tent running back and forth.

That's beautiful, Short Leash! Never thought of it but I'm agreeing with you 100% on this. :\'(

JT · « **Reply #177 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 09:33 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 29, 2006, 08:12 AM

Gustavo Santaolalla's music for this scene is brutally moving. It starts with the high strings and goes down to the lower cello range. Very beautiful. It is hard to watch it and remain indifferent.

I agree, Thomas! I'm listening to that score as I type this. I think Brokeback Mountain 3 is the saddest of the three BBM on the soundtrack. As I said before in other thresd, the Dozy Embrace is my favorite scene from the entire movie. It makes me feel warm on the inside but makes me cry too. It is indeed bittersweet.

Short Leash · « **Reply #178 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 10:12 PM »

Quote

I think Brokeback Mountain 3 is the saddest of the three BBM on the soundtrack.

I haven't heard the soundtrack but, from what I've read here, it sounds very sad. :\'(

JT · « **Reply #179 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 10:34 PM »

Quote from: Short Leash on Jan 16, 2007, 10:12 PM

I haven't heard the soundtrack but, from what I've read here, it sounds very sad. :\'(

You can hear it on the background of the last meeting when Jack walks back to comfort Ennis when Ennis was crying. The soundtrack is a bit short but I love it.

Author Topic: Flashback scene - spoiler (Read 117456 times)

greenfrog