Topic: How did Jack know to make a move on Ennis...?

[tpe]

Did any of you get the impression that Ennis seemed to have a headache/hangover the next morning whereas Jack seemed ok?  I wonder if Jack deliberately held off drinking too much, so that he would make his move with deliberation.  Well, a better way to put it was that Jack probably intended to get Ennis to sleep in the same tent with him, and let whatever follows follow...

[NoReins]

Yes, tpe, I got that impression too. When Ennis wakes up he's definitely got that "morning after" look on his face, squinting (more so than normal) against the light and rubbing his eyes, whereas Jack seems to be totally ok when he comes out of the tent. Mind you, by the time we see Jack, Ennis is looking ok too, so maybe Jack looked a bit ropey when he first woke up too I do think that Jack either drank less than Ennis the night before, or could handle his drink better, though...we see Ennis crawling around slurring about going back to the sheep but Jack seems perfectly sober when he goes to get the blanket for Ennis. It could be that Jack did that on purpose, knowing that he needed to remove Ennis's inhibitions if anything was going to happen between them

[tpe]

Yes, tpe, I got that impression too. When Ennis wakes up he's definitely got that "morning after" look on his face, squinting (more so than normal) against the light and rubbing his eyes, whereas Jack seems to be totally ok when he comes out of the tent. Mind you, by the time we see Jack, Ennis is looking ok too, so maybe Jack looked a bit ropey when he first woke up too I do think that Jack either drank less than Ennis the night before, or could handle his drink better, though...we see Ennis crawling around slurring about going back to the sheep but Jack seems perfectly sober when he goes to get the blanket for Ennis. It could be that Jack did that on purpose, knowing that he needed to remove Ennis's inhibitions if anything was going to happen between them

You are right, NoReins.  Jack was able to walk back to the tent and Ennis could barely crawl!  THat's a telltale sign.

Ennis still didn't seem to be alright when he was riding back to the sheep.  Perhaps it was more of remorse.  After all, he did have a lot on his mind at that point...

[welshwitch]

Jack had also been round the rodeo circuit where drinking was part of the routine; I reckon he has a better head for alcohol than Ennis because he's done more drinking. Ennis may not have had the opportunity for that either, if he's been living and working with his brother and sister. It's only because the former has just married that Ennis signs on to work on Brokeback - I thing this is the first time he's ever been out on his own being a man rather than a boy.

There may also be an element of bravado in his drinking - to show that he can match Jack. And it you want to, you can extrapolate from that to saying that when Jack reached out to him he responded in a mood of bravado.

[tpe]

I wonder whether Ennis "intentionally" got himself drunk that night...  True, he may not have been a greater drinker than Jack (what is the Methodist attitude to alcohol?), but I wonder whether he WANTED to get drunk that night...  It is a possibility worth considering.

Perhaps deep in his heart, he wanted it to happen all along.  That was why he id not stop Jack when the crucial moment came...

[welshwitch]

Most Protestant groups are not in favor of alcohol. My parents were Methodists ( till they became Baptists when I was in my early teens) and they didn't drink or keep alcohol, other than medicinal brandy,in the house. My mother, also brought up a Methodist, had signed the pedge ie of total abstention from the demon drink, when she was in her teens.

Later when my father moved on socially, professionally and financially both of them changed, though neither was ever a drinker.

I doubt whether Ennis's house would have contained alcohol any more than Jack's. And I bet neither father would have gone out drinking.

[ksxks]

Interesting, Thomas -- I hadn't thought of Ennis's part in perhaps getting intentionally drunk so he could let himself go and see where it led.  I do think Jack could just hold it better, and also didn't drink as much as Ennis, but he didn't seem to have to work very hard on getting Ennis drunk.  Also, we don't know what-all was said between them after the WWJ-signing scene and before we came upon them flat out by the dying fire.  Maybe there was more "flirting."  So that by a certain point, Ennis knew perfectly well where it could lead...

I'm so glad we got the SNIT, though, not drunk.  Drunk doesn't really count, except as a lubricant, as they say.  Without being drunk, we don't know if they ever would have made the first move, either of them.

kathy

[tpe]

Interesting, Thomas -- I hadn't thought of Ennis's part in perhaps getting intentionally drunk so he could let himself go and see where it led.  I do think Jack could just hold it better, and also didn't drink as much as Ennis, but he didn't seem to have to work very hard on getting Ennis drunk.  Also, we don't know what-all was said between them after the WWJ-signing scene and before we came upon them flat out by the dying fire.  Maybe there was more "flirting."  So that by a certain point, Ennis knew perfectly well where it could lead...

I'm so glad we got the SNIT, though, not drunk.  Drunk doesn't really count, except as a lubricant, as they say.  Without being drunk, we don't know if they ever would have made the first move, either of them.

kathy

kathy, I imagine a natural difference in strategy for each of them.  Ennis had issues about his feelings and had to steel himself with drink -- if he ever considered acting on these feelings.  Jack knew what he wanted and had to act with deliberation -- there was good reason for him to stay sober if ever he would try to make a move.  In some ways, perhaps both acted in accordance with his personal temperament -- but though different in the approaches taken, the desired end was the same for both.

[ksxks]

kathy, I imagine a natural difference in strategy for each of them.  Ennis had issues about his feelings and had to steel himself with drink -- if he ever considered acting on these feelings.  Jack knew what he wanted and had to act with deliberation -- there was good reason for him to stay sober if ever he would try to make a move.  In some ways, perhaps both acted in accordance with his personal temperament -- but though different in the approaches taken, the desired end was the same for both.

Of course, that's right.  Not, as I said, that it probably wouldn't have happened if "they" both weren't drunk.  But as you said, that it was better for Jack if Ennis were a bit drunk, and he himself was not.  Oh, what a fun night that was...  But the next night and those following, even better.

kathy

[Brokeback_1]

Just found this thread and haven't read through it yet. I have a one word answer lol: BOOZE.

Those boys got it on as fast as they did for that reason alone--the enormous quantities of liquor they drank. If it wasn't for the whiskey they mihgt never have ended up nekked in the dirt.

[tpe]

I do think Jack was fairly deliberate in getting what he wanted.  I suspect that for all his issues, Ennis abetted this in more subtle and suggestive ways.  Perhaps it was all unconscious on his part, but when it was time to decide what to do in the FNIT episode, Ennis was up for the challenge.

[ksxks]

I do think Jack was fairly deliberate in getting what he wanted.  I suspect that for all his issues, Ennis abetted this in more subtle and suggestive ways.  Perhaps it was all unconscious on his part, but when it was time to decide what to do in the FNIT episode, Ennis was up for the challenge.

Yes, yes.  This is a good picture of Ennis, of both of them, well said.

kathy

[greenfrog]

I do think Jack was fairly deliberate in getting what he wanted.  I suspect that for all his issues, Ennis abetted this in more subtle and suggestive ways.  Perhaps it was all unconscious on his part, but when it was time to decide what to do in the FNIT episode, Ennis was up for the challenge.

Well put tpe. Jack knew what he wanted and how to get it.

[tpe]

I do believe that both of them wanted it to happen.

[greenfrog]

I do believe that both of them wanted it to happen.

I think so too. Ennis probably wanted it but was afraid to admit it.

[tpe]

I think so too. Ennis probably wanted it but was afraid to admit it.

And I think he was also afraid to act on it.  Jack needed to make the first move.  Had he waited for Ennis, he would have waited for naught.

[ksxks]

Good thing they didn't wait to long to consummate.    What with the job being cut short, if either had put off his desires and thought, later, later, it might never have happened...

kathy

[tpe]

Was there a time before this that Jack could have made his move?  Perhaps the first night (according to the book, they both slept in the camp the first night)?  Unlikely.  The more I think about it, this was the perfect moment.  Jack must have certainly engineered all this, helped by a willing Ennis, most likely.

Jack AND Ennis knew exactly waht to do.  They desired it. If the consumation was quick, it was perhaps because they had wanted it for some time now...

[greenfrog]

Good thing they didn't wait to long to consummate.    What with the job being cut short, if either had put off his desires and thought, later, later, it might never have happened...

kathy

Very true Kathy.

[welshwitch]

Wasn't it Disney who used to have some slogan that said, "If you can dream it, you can do it" ? Well, I reckon each of them may have thought about the possibilities before FNIT - they were spending a great deal of time tofgether, talking about personal concerns and memories, getting closer.

[aintfoolin]

Not only that but in the Bucking Horse scene towards the beginning of the movie, That little prolonged stare (he actually leans to get a better look) from Ennis as Jack rode away was Very telling on Ennis's part. I've only seen this move when someone really likes what they see from the back when that person is walking (or in this case) riding away. Jack did'nt see this,  but WE  did Ennis you sly little devil.! Perhaps Ennis was smitten earlier than we thought huh? Mr. Ennisence? I wonder some times.

Happy Holidays everybody!!!

[greenfrog]

Not only that but in the Bucking Horse scene towards the beginning of the movie, That little prolonged stare (he actually leans to get a better look) from Ennis as Jack rode away was Very telling on Ennis's part. I've only seen this move when someone really likes what they see from the back when that person is walking (or in this case) riding away. Jack did'nt see this,  but WE  did Ennis you sly little devil.! Perhaps Ennis was smitten earlier than we thought huh? Mr. Ennisence? I wonder some times.

    

[ksxks]

Not only that but in the Bucking Horse scene towards the beginning of the movie, That little prolonged stare (he actually leans to get a better look) from Ennis as Jack rode away was Very telling on Ennis's part. I've only seen this move when someone really likes what they see from the back when that person is walking (or in this case) riding away. Jack did'nt see this,  but WE  did Ennis you sly little devil.! Perhaps Ennis was smitten earlier than we thought huh? Mr. Ennisence? I wonder some times.

Happy Holidays everybody!!!

Now get your mind out of the gutter (or is it out of the glorious and passionate heights of the angels?), we know Mr. Ennisence (funny!) was watching Jack ride away to check out his riding skills, make sure he was treating that mare right.

kathy

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Jack AND Ennis knew exactly waht to do.  They desired it. If the consumation was quick, it was perhaps because they had wanted it for some time now...

Interesting point.

[aintfoolin]

Yeah, uh huh,  I see,    ....... Riiiiggghhhttt!!!..............   And I'm the Easter bunny.

[tpe]

Wasn't it Disney who used to have some slogan that said, "If you can dream it, you can do it" ? Well, I reckon each of them may have thought about the possibilities before FNIT - they were spending a great deal of time tofgether, talking about personal concerns and memories, getting closer.

I think so too.

[tpe]

Not only that but in the Bucking Horse scene towards the beginning of the movie, That little prolonged stare (he actually leans to get a better look) from Ennis as Jack rode away was Very telling on Ennis's part. I've only seen this move when someone really likes what they see from the back when that person is walking (or in this case) riding away. Jack did'nt see this,  but WE  did Ennis you sly little devil.! Perhaps Ennis was smitten earlier than we thought huh? Mr. Ennisence? I wonder some times.

Happy Holidays everybody!!!

Happy Holidays, aintfoolin.   

Ennis may be more reserved than Jack, but I think his desires were just as strong.  That's waht surprises us many times -- the strong passion that is just beneath the stoic surface.

[tpe]

Not only that but in the Bucking Horse scene towards the beginning of the movie, That little prolonged stare (he actually leans to get a better look) from Ennis as Jack rode away was Very telling on Ennis's part. I've only seen this move when someone really likes what they see from the back when that person is walking (or in this case) riding away. Jack did'nt see this,  but WE  did Ennis you sly little devil.! Perhaps Ennis was smitten earlier than we thought huh? Mr. Ennisence? I wonder some times.

Happy Holidays everybody!!!

Now get your mind out of the gutter (or is it out of the glorious and passionate heights of the angels?), we know Mr. Ennisence (funny!) was watching Jack ride away to check out his riding skills, make sure he was treating that mare right.

kathy

Even in the very first scenes outside and in Aguirre's trailer, we see hints that Ennis WAS interested.  It was more of a question of being able to act on his desires, I guess.  When the FNIT scene finally unfolded, we are quite surprised nonetheless to see him take the lead.

[aintfoolin]

I agree totally Tpe. Those hints in the opening scenes did not go unnoticed. What was Jack thinking?, tempting a poor naive, little country  boy like Ennis. SMILES.  There ought to be a law against leaning  on trucks lookin that good. And your right about him taking the lead in FNIT. I guess when you offer a banquet to a starving man ........well he's gonna help himself. Even came back for seconds........But seriously though, someone like Ennis, who keeps his emotions bottled up for so long when they finally let go of all the pent up feelings, they REALLY let go. This is also evident later on when he gets angry at times.

[Short Leash]

 

That little prolonged stare (he actually leans to get a better look)

Even in the very first scenes outside and in Aguirre's trailer, we see hints that Ennis WAS interested

Ennis may be more reserved than Jack, but I think his desires were just as strong.  That's waht surprises us many times -- the strong passion that is just beneath the stoic surface.

- they were spending a great deal of time tofgether, talking about personal concerns and memories, getting closer.

  Subtlety .. not enough can be said about it