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Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*  (Read 459576 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #570 on: Mar 24, 2009, 08:01 AM »
Quote from: loreen on Mar 24, 2009, 05:09 AM
When it comes to Ennis, I can't really say how much he really knew. I think that "sensing" and "knowing" is not the same ... that is- if my dictionary is accurate enough. I think that we can have some feeling about someone or something, but not to be exactly sure, not to have the clear picture about it. Only an innuendo in our heart and soul. To know something, we have to perceive all the facts and put them in the whole picture... well as long as it's possible when it comes to feelings.

Well, there is a subtle difference between sensing and knowing, although I think in terms of feeling and in the case of Ennis, he knew that he desired Jack.  This really can't be proven anyway.  But I should also note that desire can also be differentiated from love.  Did Ennis love Jack at that point.  Probably.  But inhibitions hava a way of making people deny what they already know deep in their hearts.

 
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Offline holyfool

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #571 on: Mar 24, 2009, 12:55 PM »



                         - i think cowboy delmar saw that TENT like an ice cream parlor: 
                         
                         "i wanna try that one, oh! yeah that one, can i have a taste of that one too... oh! damn! that one is sooo goood..."
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Offline traveller

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #572 on: Mar 24, 2009, 05:59 PM »
Quote from: tpe on Mar 24, 2009, 08:01 AM
Well, there is a subtle difference between sensing and knowing, although I think in terms of feeling and in the case of Ennis, he knew that he desired Jack.  This really can't be proven anyway.  But I should also note that desire can also be differentiated from love.  Did Ennis love Jack at that point.  Probably.  But inhibitions hava a way of making people deny what they already know deep in their hearts.

 
I like very much how you defined the role (nagative!!!!!!) of inhibitations. If love means : taking care of someone, letting someone to know us more than other people, respecting his/him, loving to spend time together and desire him/her - Ennis certainly loved Jack. IMO:-)
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Offline atalley

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #573 on: Mar 24, 2009, 09:27 PM »
Quote from: holyfool on Mar 24, 2009, 12:55 PM


                         - i think cowboy delmar saw that TENT like an ice cream parlor: 
                         
                         "i wanna try that one, oh! yeah that one, can i have a taste of that one too... oh! damn! that one is sooo goood..."

 :8 :8
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vedrana

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #574 on: Mar 25, 2009, 03:16 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Mar 24, 2009, 08:01 AM
Well, there is a subtle difference between sensing and knowing, although I think in terms of feeling and in the case of Ennis, he knew that he desired Jack.  This really can't be proven anyway.  But I should also note that desire can also be differentiated from love.  Did Ennis love Jack at that point.  Probably.  But inhibitions hava a way of making people deny what they already know deep in their hearts.


I believe that before SNIT he knew very well that he wanted Jack, but in the evening before FNIT?? I don't think so...

And (in my stupid romantic way) I believe that there was love around there... not very developed, but the seeds were in their hearts before anything happened between them. <^(
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vedrana

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #575 on: Mar 25, 2009, 03:17 AM »
Quote from: traveller on Mar 24, 2009, 05:59 PM
I like very much how you defined the role (nagative!!!!!!) of inhibitations. If love means : taking care of someone, letting someone to know us more than other people, respecting his/him, loving to spend time together and desire him/her - Ennis certainly loved Jack. IMO:-)

Good explanation!  O0
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Offline holyfool

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #576 on: Mar 25, 2009, 03:38 AM »


                    - damn!  where is my broke back hill dictionary?.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #577 on: Mar 25, 2009, 08:37 AM »
Quote from: holyfool on Mar 24, 2009, 12:55 PM


                         - i think cowboy delmar saw that TENT like an ice cream parlor: 
                         
                         "i wanna try that one, oh! yeah that one, can i have a taste of that one too... oh! damn! that one is sooo goood..."

That's a very interesting metaphor.  ;)    But to be sure, the tent must have signified forbidden delights that he was only beginning to allow himself...

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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #578 on: Mar 25, 2009, 08:40 AM »
Quote from: traveller on Mar 24, 2009, 05:59 PM
I like very much how you defined the role (nagative!!!!!!) of inhibitations. If love means : taking care of someone, letting someone to know us more than other people, respecting his/him, loving to spend time together and desire him/her - Ennis certainly loved Jack. IMO:-)

It is best to understand the role of inhibitions by looking at how it affects us in our daily lives.  How many times have we wanted something or wanted to do something but held back because we had inhibitions or thought of ourselves in a way that didn't allow us to do what we really wanted?  In many such cases, we already KNEW waht we wanted, but didn't have the courage to act on it.

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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #579 on: Mar 25, 2009, 08:43 AM »
Quote from: loreen on Mar 25, 2009, 03:16 AM
I believe that before SNIT he knew very well that he wanted Jack, but in the evening before FNIT?? I don't think so...

And (in my stupid romantic way) I believe that there was love around there... not very developed, but the seeds were in their hearts before anything happened between them. <^(

Well, as I said, his knowing that he wanted Jack before FNIT doesn't mean that he was willing to act on it, much less recognize it for what is was.  Many times, we know something that we want but make excuses and justifications -- convincing ourselves that we really like this or that because of so and so.  It doesn't change the fact that deep inside, we already KNOW that we like it.  Expressing it out in the open or contemplating it head-on is another matter...
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Offline jesseanne21

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #580 on: Mar 25, 2009, 02:08 PM »
Quote from: tpe on Mar 25, 2009, 08:43 AM
Well, as I said, his knowing that he wanted Jack before FNIT doesn't mean that he was willing to act on it, much less recognize it for what is was.  Many times, we know something that we want but make excuses and justifications -- convincing ourselves that we really like this or that because of so and so.  It doesn't change the fact that deep inside, we already KNOW that we like it.  Expressing it out in the open or contemplating it head-on is another matter...


How true.

I don't remember where I read this..

THE THREE GREATEST MYSTERIES IN THE WORLD

AIR to birds
WATER to fish, and
MAN unto himself

One of the hardest things for human beings to accept is THE TRUTH (or reality).  We each see the world through our own eyes and WE CHOOSE the lenses we look through.
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Offline holyfool

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #581 on: Mar 26, 2009, 12:35 AM »




              - i definitely need to wear glasses . . .
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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #582 on: Mar 26, 2009, 08:02 AM »
Quote from: jesseanne21 on Mar 25, 2009, 02:08 PM

I don't remember where I read this..

THE THREE GREATEST MYSTERIES IN THE WORLD

AIR to birds
WATER to fish, and
MAN unto himself

One of the hardest things for human beings to accept is THE TRUTH (or reality).  We each see the world through our own eyes and WE CHOOSE the lenses we look through.


Excellent!

Sometimes, even when you can feel and touch the truth, you still don't want to believe it.  It is a willful blindness (voluntary or involuntary).
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vedrana

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #583 on: Mar 26, 2009, 08:21 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Mar 25, 2009, 08:43 AM
Well, as I said, his knowing that he wanted Jack before FNIT doesn't mean that he was willing to act on it, much less recognize it for what is was.  Many times, we know something that we want but make excuses and justifications -- convincing ourselves that we really like this or that because of so and so.  It doesn't change the fact that deep inside, we already KNOW that we like it.  Expressing it out in the open or contemplating it head-on is another matter...

I don't want to be tough on Ennis (like I often am), but I am not sure how much he understood altogether about wanting someone.
Well, his reaction in FNIT when he just flipped Jack shows that he had pretty good idea how the things go, but was he really really aware of that situation in his mind before Jack took his hand to warm it up  ::)? I am not sure... :s)

But, maybe you can convince me as you often do...  ;D
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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #584 on: Mar 26, 2009, 11:07 AM »
Quote from: loreen on Mar 26, 2009, 08:21 AM
I don't want to be tough on Ennis (like I often am), but I am not sure how much he understood altogether about wanting someone.
Well, his reaction in FNIT when he just flipped Jack shows that he had pretty good idea how the things go, but was he really really aware of that situation in his mind before Jack took his hand to warm it up  ::)? I am not sure... :s)

But, maybe you can convince me as you often do...  ;D
I think Ennis was aware,or at least suspicious,that something was going to happen because he didn't want to enter into the tent in spite of the cold.This is IMO one of this "so Ennis" ambivalent situations we see sometimes in the movie; he wished that something happenned and,at the same time,he was afraid that this something could happen-surely also afraid of wishing it-.And,so,he suffered from the night cold without entering into the warmtn-climatological and human-of the tent,but at the same time,he didn't make anything to revive the bonfire;as a way to avoid and at the same time,provoke the situation he wished and feared;as I said formerly,"with or without you"...
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Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Offline holyfool

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #585 on: Mar 26, 2009, 12:10 PM »



        -damn! ms. barcelona,  you really went Universidad Carlos III de Madrid  in this one.  double ole's to ya for technical support.
« Last Edit: Mar 26, 2009, 01:37 PM by holyfool »
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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #586 on: Mar 26, 2009, 01:55 PM »
Quote from: holyfool on Mar 26, 2009, 12:10 PM


        -damn! ms. barcelona,  you really went Universidad Carlos III de Madrid  in this one.  double ole's to ya for technical support.

No,no %( I would never go to Universidad Carlos III de Madrid...; in any case,to the Autonoma of Barcelona or the Pompeu Fabra one ¡There're classes still... ;D And,by the way,never laugh at a miss olé ¡  ^^)
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Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline traveller

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #587 on: Mar 26, 2009, 05:41 PM »
Quote from: loreen on Mar 26, 2009, 08:21 AM
I don't want to be tough on Ennis (like I often am), but I am not sure how much he understood altogether about wanting someone.
Well, his reaction in FNIT when he just flipped Jack shows that he had pretty good idea how the things go, but was he really really aware of that situation in his mind before Jack took his hand to warm it up  ::)? I am not sure... :s)

But, maybe you can convince me as you often do...  ;D


Being convinced by other members is one of the best thing about this forum :)
And speaking seriously, I agree with MPJ and TPE. I love the way TPE's words of inhibitions and "knowing something deep in the heart doesn't mean acting on it" fit with MPJ's interpretation of Ennis's 'avoiding-provoking behavior" before FNIT.

I always look at Ennis and Jack through my own experiences and beliefs. I think we always look so at everything and everyone as we are not the ideals of neutrality.  IMO, love came to Ennis long before FNIT. I assume that love to Jack could come to Ennis long before they both met. Meeting Jack was for Ennis only the chance for its fulfillment. Did he take it? That's another story.
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Offline holyfool

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #588 on: Mar 26, 2009, 08:41 PM »



                 - R. O. T. F. L.M.A.O. !!!! ya'r ridiculous the bomb  miss barcelona, chilax!  we gringos have some humor left too.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #589 on: Mar 27, 2009, 07:56 AM »
Quote from: loreen on Mar 26, 2009, 08:21 AM
I don't want to be tough on Ennis (like I often am), but I am not sure how much he understood altogether about wanting someone.
Well, his reaction in FNIT when he just flipped Jack shows that he had pretty good idea how the things go, but was he really really aware of that situation in his mind before Jack took his hand to warm it up  ::)? I am not sure... :s)

But, maybe you can convince me as you often do...  ;D

As in love, you really don't understand.  You just feel it to be right.  That's what is meant by "knowing".  It's knowing through the heart and not necessarity through the mind.



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Offline ksxks

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #590 on: Mar 27, 2009, 09:11 PM »
Quote from: myprivatejack on Mar 26, 2009, 11:07 AM
I think Ennis was aware,or at least suspicious,that something was going to happen because he didn't want to enter into the tent in spite of the cold.This is IMO one of this "so Ennis" ambivalent situations we see sometimes in the movie; he wished that something happenned and,at the same time,he was afraid that this something could happen-surely also afraid of wishing it-.And,so,he suffered from the night cold without entering into the warmtn-climatological and human-of the tent,but at the same time,he didn't make anything to revive the bonfire;as a way to avoid and at the same time,provoke the situation he wished and feared;as I said formerly,"with or without you"...

You're so right.  If things were all "innocent" between them -- between any men working in the freezing cold up on the mountain -- Ennis wouldn't have hesitated to share the tent.  But he surely knew and was afraid of how he might feel being in there with Jack...

kathy
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vedrana

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #591 on: Mar 28, 2009, 10:01 AM »
Quote from: traveller on Mar 26, 2009, 05:41 PM

Being convinced by other members is one of the best thing about this forum :)
And speaking seriously, I agree with MPJ and TPE. I love the way TPE's words of inhibitions and "knowing something deep in the heart doesn't mean acting on it" fit with MPJ's interpretation of Ennis's 'avoiding-provoking behavior" before FNIT.

I always look at Ennis and Jack through my own experiences and beliefs. I think we always look so at everything and everyone as we are not the ideals of neutrality.  IMO, love came to Ennis long before FNIT. I assume that love to Jack could come to Ennis long before they both met. Meeting Jack was for Ennis only the chance for its fulfillment. Did he take it? That's another story.

Like the bold part!  ^f^

And agree that we all see things through ourselves. That, and the fact that a huge open space was left in the movie for us to surmise, made this conversation more interesting.  :)
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vedrana

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #592 on: Mar 28, 2009, 10:06 AM »
Quote from: myprivatejack on Mar 26, 2009, 11:07 AM
I think Ennis was aware,or at least suspicious,that something was going to happen because he didn't want to enter into the tent in spite of the cold.This is IMO one of this "so Ennis" ambivalent situations we see sometimes in the movie; he wished that something happenned and,at the same time,he was afraid that this something could happen-surely also afraid of wishing it-.And,so,he suffered from the night cold without entering into the warmtn-climatological and human-of the tent,but at the same time,he didn't make anything to revive the bonfire;as a way to avoid and at the same time,provoke the situation he wished and feared;as I said formerly,"with or without you"...

Great post babe! O0

And reading it I think - don't we all have a little piece of Ennis in ourselves? Hesitating time-bomb! :i
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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #593 on: Mar 28, 2009, 11:29 AM »
Quote from: loreen on Mar 28, 2009, 10:06 AM
Great post babe! O0

And reading it I think - don't we all have a little piece of Ennis in ourselves? Hesitating time-bomb! :i

Thank you,Kathy and Loreen ¡  :ghug: I suppose we all have a little piece of Ennis in ouselves,yes...All of us have been afraid of something that we wished on the other hand,in one moment or another of our lives...Like him,we have "provoked" some situation we knew maybe we couldn't manage with;a kind of self-proof,maybe?.
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Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #594 on: Mar 29, 2009, 08:10 AM »
Ennis entering the tent is of very high significance for alot of reasons..Ennis accepts the fact that he is drawn towards Jack and accepts that he needs and loves him ..I think Jack's patience pays off that day  :)

When Ennis comes into the tent, I love his kinda shy yet affirmative look...It shows Jack what is going on in Ennis mind and they both emark on a joyous night which takes their relationship to the next level...
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Offline holyfool

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #595 on: Mar 29, 2009, 08:42 PM »



                          - slang, slang, slang!   . . . lets see:  twister was the "bomb" (get it?) , delmar was like drowning  inside a glass of water.



                            (being the bomb is like being kool)
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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #596 on: Mar 30, 2009, 08:30 AM »
Quote from: smartestsonia on Mar 29, 2009, 08:10 AM
Ennis entering the tent is of very high significance for alot of reasons..Ennis accepts the fact that he is drawn towards Jack and accepts that he needs and loves him ..I think Jack's patience pays off that day  :)

When Ennis comes into the tent, I love his kinda shy yet affirmative look...It shows Jack what is going on in Ennis mind and they both emark on a joyous night which takes their relationship to the next level...

I do think that the scene is -- most of all -- an affirmation the what they feel is mutually shared, and that it was alright to express it openly to the other.

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Offline smartestsonia

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #597 on: Mar 31, 2009, 04:03 AM »
Quote from: tpe on Mar 30, 2009, 08:30 AM
I do think that the scene is -- most of all -- an affirmation the what they feel is mutually shared, and that it was alright to express it openly to the other.


Ya, there was no pretence or hiding then..They were just themselves
It was very very important for Ennis to initiate this as Jack was mainly waiting for that.Before Ennis entered the tent,  all Jack could think was what will happne next and all his thoughts were related to Ennis..Ennis initiation made Jack's and our hearts rejoice and he finally accepted even if only in front of Jack that he loves him...
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vedrana

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #598 on: Mar 31, 2009, 05:53 AM »
Quote from: smartestsonia on Mar 31, 2009, 04:03 AM
Ya, there was no pretence or hiding then..They were just themselves
It was very very important for Ennis to initiate this as Jack was mainly waiting for that.Before Ennis entered the tent,  all Jack could think was what will happne next and all his thoughts were related to Ennis..Ennis initiation made Jack's and our hearts rejoice and he finally accepted even if only in front of Jack that he loves him...

The bold part is beautiful! ^f^

Although I'd rather say that it's Jack who initiated this with his naked torso and open tent  ::). But Ennis was really the one who was making choice of accepting the invitation. (t)
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Offline tpe

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Re: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*
« Reply #599 on: Mar 31, 2009, 07:28 AM »
Quote from: smartestsonia on Mar 31, 2009, 04:03 AM
Ya, there was no pretence or hiding then..They were just themselves
It was very very important for Ennis to initiate this as Jack was mainly waiting for that.Before Ennis entered the tent,  all Jack could think was what will happne next and all his thoughts were related to Ennis..Ennis initiation made Jack's and our hearts rejoice and he finally accepted even if only in front of Jack that he loves him...

And we should note that the next scene -- showing them horsing around with each other -- is meant to reinforce the point that the floodgates were open and that they were being themselves when with each other (with or without the prying eyes of Aguirre).  I think that there is a deliberate desire in this scene to echo the Walt Whitman of the Calamus poems. 

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