Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*

[tpe]

I think what makes FNIT really different from SNIT is that in the former, they were unsure about how the other felt and how would they react.  Hence, you have the explosiveness born out of uncertainly.  Of course, there is also the element of being their first time together, and that this was Ennis's first time, without a doubt. 

The fact that things just happened the way it did made it especially awkward.  Jack not being able to contain himself and taking Ennis's hand and all.  In a way, it was probably better that he didn't overthink this one.  Had he did, it probably never would have happened.

[sportstalk23]

I think what makes FNIT really different from SNIT is that in the former, they were unsure about how the other felt and how would they react.  Hence, you have the explosiveness born out of uncertainly.  Of course, there is also the element of being their first time together, and that this was Ennis's first time, without a doubt. 

The fact that things just happened the way it did made it especially awkward.  Jack not being able to contain himself and taking Ennis's hand and all.  In a way, it was probably better that he didn't overthink this one.  Had he did, it probably never would have happened.

I agree Jack seemed to know when to make a move and when not to just like how instead of saying to Ennis flat out after the FNIT  "arent you going to talk to me about last night and what happened?" but he went "see you for supper" with those big baby blues  I got the feeling that Jack was treading lightly all day and it was Ennis that started the convo with the "I aint queer, one shot deal, but the SNIT Jack let Ennis come to him I felt he took his arm and hat as somehow he knew Ennis wouldnt just walk in the tent ready to face the fact he has fallen in love and wanted to make love the whole scene felt calm to me

[atalley]

For sure...it's the most romantic "love scene" I've ever seen in any movie.  Total, sweet surrender.

[tpe]

I agree Jack seemed to know when to make a move and when not to just like how instead of saying to Ennis flat out after the FNIT  "arent you going to talk to me about last night and what happened?" but he went "see you for supper" with those big baby blues  I got the feeling that Jack was treading lightly all day and it was Ennis that started the convo with the "I aint queer, one shot deal, but the SNIT Jack let Ennis come to him I felt he took his arm and hat as somehow he knew Ennis wouldnt just walk in the tent ready to face the fact he has fallen in love and wanted to make love the whole scene felt calm to me

Yes, Jack certainly knew how to read Ennis.  The FNIT and SNIT and the scenes between them attest to this.  He knew that he had to keep Ennis comfortable at all cost, even at the risk of playing down his own emotions and desires.  That was why the transition from FNIT to SNIT was much more "smooth" than some of us would have thought, don't you think?  The transition had some very tense moments, but by and large, it came with very little dramatics.

For sure...it's the most romantic "love scene" I've ever seen in any movie.  Total, sweet surrender.

THis certainly describes the SNIT. 

[sportstalk23]

Yes, Jack certainly knew how to read Ennis.  The FNIT and SNIT and the scenes between them attest to this.  He knew that he had to keep Ennis comfortable at all cost, even at the risk of playing down his own emotions and desires.  That was why the transition from FNIT to SNIT was much more "smooth" than some of us would have thought, don't you think?  The transition had some very tense moments, but by and large, it came with very little dramatics.


THis certainly describes the SNIT. 

I noticed that too sure there was some tension but there wasnt alot of going back and forth that you see with some straight movie couples which is from the opening to the end of the movie they are fighting arguing  but not this I enjoyed the pace of this movie alot everything into it was perfect the setting, the lighting, the scenic shots of canada, the music, the dialogue, what i'm tryin to say is this movie SHOULD HAVE BEEN BEST PICTURE! oops sorry had a flashback my bad 

[babytammy7]

Ennis already knows about sex, now Jack shows him how to make love.

MG, how utterly beautiful that is!! Just that thought makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. **sigh**

[tpe]

I noticed that too sure there was some tension but there wasnt alot of going back and forth that you see with some straight movie couples which is from the opening to the end of the movie they are fighting arguing  but not this I enjoyed the pace of this movie alot everything into it was perfect the setting, the lighting, the scenic shots of canada, the music, the dialogue, what i'm tryin to say is this movie SHOULD HAVE BEEN BEST PICTURE! oops sorry had a flashback my bad 

Exactly.  Everything was much more succinct and underplayed -- as if they iunderstood where the other was coming from.  When Ennis entered the tent, I think all tension and doubt within then two of them simply melted away.  SNIT was a kind of release for both of them.

[vedrana]

Exactly.  Everything was much more succinct and underplayed -- as if they iunderstood where the other was coming from.  When Ennis entered the tent, I think all tension and doubt within then two of them simply melted away.  SNIT was a kind of release for both of them.

Release from the tention after FNIT, but also an opening of a whole new world of physical love and mutual tenderness which was expectedly repressed in FNIT. 

[tpe]

Release from the tention after FNIT, but also an opening of a whole new world of physical love and mutual tenderness which was expectedly repressed in FNIT. 

Yes, I think this was an opening up to the joy of being in love.  No thought of tomorrow.  Only the moment mattered.

[vedrana]

Yes, I think this was an opening up to the joy of being in love.  No thought of tomorrow.  Only the moment mattered.

Unfotunately, "tomorrow" came too soon and too unexpected, cos of Aguirre. And those few months of the most beautiful love remained the most precious time of their lives.  :\'(

[tpe]

Unfotunately, "tomorrow" came too soon and too unexpected, cos of Aguirre. And those few months of the most beautiful love remained the most precious time of their lives.  :\'(

I think Ennis thought that he could brush things aside when the time came, and I think that Jack was thinking that he can prolong it even after they came down from the Mountain.  I think both miscalculated.

[myprivatejack]

I think Ennis thought that he could brush things aside when the time came, and I think that Jack was thinking that he can prolong it even after they came down from the Mountain.  I think both miscalculated.

That's right¡.Even if Ennis wished all the contrary and Jack was,somehow,fooling himself by thinking his lover will be open to a greater contact after leaving BBM.For me,both miscalculated,but also they were absoultely lack of communication in such an important moment of their lives.

[vedrana]

I think Ennis thought that he could brush things aside when the time came, and I think that Jack was thinking that he can prolong it even after they came down from the Mountain.  I think both miscalculated.

You're so right here tpe!

That's right¡.Even if Ennis wished all the contrary and Jack was,somehow,fooling himself by thinking his lover will be open to a greater contact after leaving BBM.For me,both miscalculated,but also they were absoultely lack of communication in such an important moment of their lives.

The lack of communication is in fact what led them through the sad and misfortunate lives. It also killed Jack (and me together with him  :\'( ), but we should not forget that the author has marvelously prepared it. The communication was cut off after their wrestling on the mountain. Wrestling used to be an exchange of their masculine power and tenderness. This time it turned to be without tenderness from Ennis side. He was so devastated for leaving the mountain that he punched Jack who was all over him with loving embrace and compassion! At that moment all the communication was brutally interupted. Ennis felt sorry, but it didn't gave him a strength to apologize, on the contrary -he became even more closed! And my dear Jack tried to "invite" Ennis for the next year on the Brokeback, but the door was already shut.

Ennis was a tough and stuborn person, but Jack also didn't take all the chances with Ennis. He pulled back far too many times.

And I will never understand why Jack didn't give a lift to Ennis, cos we saw Ennis walk for a long road?? Also a lack of communication?

[tpe]

That's right¡.Even if Ennis wished all the contrary and Jack was,somehow,fooling himself by thinking his lover will be open to a greater contact after leaving BBM.For me,both miscalculated,but also they were absoultely lack of communication in such an important moment of their lives.

And also a miscalculation about how each one felt for the other...  They didn't really know themselves as much as they didn't know how much the other meant to each of them.

[tpe]

You're so right here tpe!

The lack of communication is in fact what led them through the sad and misfortunate lives. It also killed Jack (and me together with him  :\'( ), but we should not forget that the author has marvelously prepared it. The communication was cut off after their wrestling on the mountain. Wrestling used to be an exchange of their masculine power and tenderness. This time it turned to be without tenderness from Ennis side. He was so devastated for leaving the mountain that he punched Jack who was all over him with loving embrace and compassion! At that moment all the communication was brutally interupted. Ennis felt sorry, but it didn't gave him a strength to apologize, on the contrary -he became even more closed! And my dear Jack tried to "invite" Ennis for the next year on the Brokeback, but the door was already shut.

Ennis was a tough and stuborn person, but Jack also didn't take all the chances with Ennis. He pulled back far too many times.

And I will never understand why Jack didn't give a lift to Ennis, cos we saw Ennis walk for a long road?? Also a lack of communication?

I think you are right here.  While they were on the Mountain, a wordless communication seemed to have flowed sufficiently well between the two -- but things started to unravel starting with the fight before both came down. 

What difference would it have made had one vocally told the other about his love.  It may have frightened the other in the short term, but perhaps it would have opened things up for the better.  All specualtion...  But it is interesting to think about what could have been had they communicated truthfully before parting.

[vedrana]

I think you are right here.  While they were on the Mountain, a wordless communication seemed to have flowed sufficiently well between the two -- but things started to unravel starting with the fight before both came down. 

What difference would it have made had one vocally told the other about his love.  It may have frightened the other in the short term, but perhaps it would have opened things up for the better.  All specualtion...  But it is interesting to think about what could have been had they communicated truthfully before parting.

I always wonder, how well they understood their own feelings!? Was Jack really aware that it was love - especially in the moment when their love and their Brokeback adventure was so brutally interrupted. I am not so sure of it. Maybe if they had time to prepare, to expect the end, to contemplate about it. But no! Aguirre just sent them down without any previous preparation. Jack ( as you said) thought that they could continue their relationship which proved to be wrong, but he had no time to prepare his proposition to Ennis. Ennis, on the other side, was so shocked for leaving Brokeback that he acted abnormally - hit Jack for no good reason, hardly talked to him (after ALL they have been through together!!) and finally walked away to get a stomach crimp. I mean, Aguirre had killed all their possibilities, and destroyed all their chances to open up and to know how deeply they love each other. Therefore, the love statement at that point wasn't likely to be expected.

But I would've hoped to hear those words some years later...

[tpe]

I always wonder, how well they understood their own feelings!? Was Jack really aware that it was love - especially in the moment when their love and their Brokeback adventure was so brutally interrupted. I am not so sure of it. Maybe if they had time to prepare, to expect the end, to contemplate about it. But no! Aguirre just sent them down without any previous preparation. Jack ( as you said) thought that they could continue their relationship which proved to be wrong, but he had no time to prepare his proposition to Ennis. Ennis, on the other side, was so shocked for leaving Brokeback that he acted abnormally - hit Jack for no good reason, hardly talked to him (after ALL they have been through together!!) and finally walked away to get a stomach crimp. I mean, Aguirre had killed all their possibilities, and destroyed all their chances to open up and to know how deeply they love each other. Therefore, the love statement at that point wasn't likely to be expected.

But I would've hoped to hear those words some years later...

I really think that both of them were in love before they went down the mountain.  But I think Jack had already acknowledged it within him (I view the lasso scene symbolically, you see) whereas Ennis at that point didn't want to acknowledge it even with himself.  There lies the difference between the two in love.  That was why he was so very affected by the stay being cut short.  He was unprepared to face how he truly felt.

[myprivatejack]

I really think that both of them were in love before they went down the mountain.  But I think Jack had already acknowledged it within him (I view the lasso scene symbolically, you see) whereas Ennis at that point didn't want to acknowledge it even with himself.  There lies the difference between the two in love.  That was why he was so very affected by the stay being cut short.  He was unprepared to face how he truly felt.

Exactly¡.Ennis was unprepared to face his own feelings,and somehow unprepared also to cut their stay in the mountain.Because he knew that was meaning the end of their relationship,whereas Jack didn't know it,but he was always hoping-and surely thinking- there will be a continuation down BBM.Yes,this is the difference between their respective ways of being in love and feeling it from that time onwards.

[vedrana]

I really think that both of them were in love before they went down the mountain.  But I think Jack had already acknowledged it within him (I view the lasso scene symbolically, you see) whereas Ennis at that point didn't want to acknowledge it even with himself.  There lies the difference between the two in love.  That was why he was so very affected by the stay being cut short.  He was unprepared to face how he truly felt.

I am with you here -they were in love after SNIT even. Love was in the air and when they made love in the way they did, Love was there. Their games, wrestling and joking with each other just reinforced the relationship.
As for Jack - I am not sure if he would have qualified their feelings as Love at that moment. He was also young, innocent, not so experienced to recognize what they really have and what they felt for each other. But surely, if Ennis opened, Jack was more than willing to stay with him at that very moment.

PS: I never thought of it but lasso was very significante indeed, but the same as their lives it ended unhappy! :\'(

[vedrana]

Exactly¡.Ennis was unprepared to face his own feelings,and somehow unprepared also to cut their stay in the mountain.Because he knew that was meaning the end of their relationship,whereas Jack didn't know it,but he was always hoping-and surely thinking- there will be a continuation down BBM.Yes,this is the difference between their respective ways of being in love and feeling it from that time onwards.

That was obvious from Jack's reaction who very calmly removed the tent and prepared all the things to get down the mountain, while Ennis needed time alone to face the unpleasant situation.

[atalley]

I really think that both of them were in love before they went down the mountain.  But I think Jack had already acknowledged it within him (I view the lasso scene symbolically, you see) whereas Ennis at that point didn't want to acknowledge it even with himself.  There lies the difference between the two in love.  That was why he was so very affected by the stay being cut short.  He was unprepared to face how he truly felt.

You know you've said something really important, Thomas, when it gets quoted so many times!

[tpe]

Exactly¡.Ennis was unprepared to face his own feelings,and somehow unprepared also to cut their stay in the mountain.Because he knew that was meaning the end of their relationship,whereas Jack didn't know it,but he was always hoping-and surely thinking- there will be a continuation down BBM.Yes,this is the difference between their respective ways of being in love and feeling it from that time onwards.

We see it in Jack's calm demeanor as he got the things ready.  Somehow, I felt that at that point, he still thought that he could turn things around and make things last even after they had come down.

By making significant headway with Ennis from SNIT onward, it is understandable that Jack was perhaps more hopeful.

[tpe]

I am with you here -they were in love after SNIT even. Love was in the air and when they made love in the way they did, Love was there. Their games, wrestling and joking with each other just reinforced the relationship.
As for Jack - I am not sure if he would have qualified their feelings as Love at that moment. He was also young, innocent, not so experienced to recognize what they really have and what they felt for each other. But surely, if Ennis opened, Jack was more than willing to stay with him at that very moment.

PS: I never thought of it but lasso was very significante indeed, but the same as their lives it ended unhappy! :\'(

Tying this with the original topic, we see that Ennis taking the initiative to approach and apologize to Jack in SNIT marks IMO a moment when Jack's feelings (aside from his own) really mattered to Ennis.  I would call it love.

[tpe]

You know you've said something really important, Thomas, when it gets quoted so many times!

Thanks atalley!  I would like to think that SNIT was sort of a declaration of love for both of them.

[vedrana]

Tying this with the original topic, we see that Ennis taking the initiative to approach and apologize to Jack in SNIT marks IMO a moment when Jack's feelings (aside from his own) really mattered to Ennis.  I would call it love.

Well, I hear no apology from Ennis there in SNIT! I believe that it's Jack who repeats 3 times "It's alright", not as a reply to an apology, but to ensure Ennis that what they were doing was alright, and that he can relax and enjoy being physical with Jack.

I believe that just Ennis entering the tent was significant enough! Nothing more was required to prove his love. He loved jack there. And Jack was waiting half-naked, he had already proved it!

[myprivatejack]

Well, I hear no apology from Ennis there in SNIT! I believe that it's Jack who repeats 3 times "It's alright", not as a reply to an apology, but to ensure Ennis that what they were doing was alright, and that he can relax and enjoy being physical with Jack.

I believe that just Ennis entering the tent was significant enough! Nothing more was required to prove his love. He loved jack there. And Jack was waiting half-naked, he had already proved it!

However,I think that Ennis apologises-his "I'm sorry" is difficulty heard-for being so rude with Jack in the morning in an emotional sense,and even because he was too rude also in a physical one during FNIT.His head inclination after their kissing is a proof that he was kind of worried or ashamed for both situations.Of course,the fact he entered the tent and surrendered to Jack's wishes is significant enough to show his friend he accepted him as a lover.But,IMO,this is not incompatible with apologising,as a friend and as a person.

[vedrana]

However,I think that Ennis apologises-his "I'm sorry" is difficulty heard-for being so rude with Jack in the morning in an emotional sense,and even because he was too rude also in a physical one during FNIT.His head inclination after their kissing is a proof that he was kind of worried or ashamed for both situations.Of course,the fact he entered the tent and surrendered to Jack's wishes is significant enough to show his friend he accepted him as a lover.But,IMO,this is not incompatible with apologising,as a friend and as a person.

the

I really don't like to oppose here, but Ennis don't move his lips, not a little bit, the voice is Jack's (all 3 "it's alright" are spoken by a same person), and Ennis is not an apologizing character. He didn't enter the tent to apologize. He was too vexed about everything that he wasn't thinking  about the apology at all.

During FNIT he wasn't rude at all, maybe rough, but Jack gave the clear sign what he wants and he enjoyed every inch of Ennis' roughness    ! Even if it was painful.

What they really said in there during SNIT is very difficult to prove, so I won't oppose to this one any more. I'll just say that I'm 99% sure about this.

Another words said there are also Jack's who says: "Come on..." just before kissing Ennis! 

[tpe]

Well, I hear no apology from Ennis there in SNIT! I believe that it's Jack who repeats 3 times "It's alright", not as a reply to an apology, but to ensure Ennis that what they were doing was alright, and that he can relax and enjoy being physical with Jack.

I believe that just Ennis entering the tent was significant enough! Nothing more was required to prove his love. He loved jack there. And Jack was waiting half-naked, he had already proved it!

If I recall correctly, there is an entire thread devoted to this and similar scnes -- although I may be confusing this!

If you listen carefully, you will here Ennis say "I'm sorry" and Jack says "It's alright." 

And yes, the mere action of Ennis entering the tent is significant enough!  Had no words been exchanged, it wouldn't have made any difference.

[tpe]

However,I think that Ennis apologises-his "I'm sorry" is difficulty heard-for being so rude with Jack in the morning in an emotional sense,and even because he was too rude also in a physical one during FNIT.His head inclination after their kissing is a proof that he was kind of worried or ashamed for both situations.Of course,the fact he entered the tent and surrendered to Jack's wishes is significant enough to show his friend he accepted him as a lover.But,IMO,this is not incompatible with apologising,as a friend and as a person.

I also think the apology was tied into the terse and tense exchange by the side of the mountain. no?    Yes, his entry was a kind of surrender.  He was battling it out before the fire right before he entered the tent.  But in the end, the action was both an expression of resolve as well as an act of surrender.

[myprivatejack]

the

I really don't like to oppose here, but Ennis don't move his lips, not a little bit, the voice is Jack's (all 3 "it's alright" are spoken by a same person), and Ennis is not an apologizing character. He didn't enter the tent to apologize. He was too vexed about everything that he wasn't thinking  about the apology at all.

During FNIT he wasn't rude at all, maybe rough, but Jack gave the clear sign what he wants and he enjoyed every inch of Ennis' roughness    ! Even if it was painful.

What they really said in there during SNIT is very difficult to prove, so I won't oppose to this one any more. I'll just say that I'm 99% sure about this.

Another words said there are also Jack's who says: "Come on..." just before kissing Ennis! 

Listening with the same care-and high volume-than the "I love you" of the shirts scene,one can heard Ennis saying "I'm sorry"... ^^) .You're right,Ennis is not the apologising kind,but even so,in this very moment,the same than he felt he had to sureender somehow to Jack in a physical sense,he felt also that he had to apologise before him in an emotional sense.He didn't need to say anything and the mere action of entering the tent speaks for themselves,you're right again...
But there were some "little behaviour conduct" that IMO had to be "forgiven" with words,not only with this fact;Ennis maybe wasn't rude in FNIT,but well,let's say that he wasn't too delicate either ¡  .But I guess his way of "exploding" before some sexual tension situation-very logical,on the other hand...-,hadn't been exactly the same that Jack would have wished-more foreplay,let's say again,for what Ennis wasn't prepared still...-.Nor his behaviour the morning after and when Jack was going up to the mountain to talk,one more time not exactly the same than this last hoped.I think,in sum,that-even if the simple fact of entering the tent was enough-Ennis apologise makes sense in this concrete moment.JMHO.